That would work, but the information would likely be more limited since it would be from her PoV. Looking for sources opens up vistas of investigation as well.
Ok then. If we can't study something directly, we can study something by the effects it has, and by studying something that isn't it and drawing comparisons. So, would this work?
[X] Plan indirect study
-[X] Do not burn the question, there's no reason to rush.
-[X] Crown questions:
--[X] Using Harry's pentacle necklace: What is the sum total knowledge of this Pentacle's original owner on the matter of Starborn?
---[X] Subterfuge excellency not to reveal Lash's hypothesis that Margret planned for Harry to be a starborn.
--[X] Using Harry's blasting rod: In what qualitative ways is the magic of the owner of this blasting rod different from that of a statistically average White Council wizard?
--[X] Using a random white council wizard (now, if Harry can give us someone's contact, or later if he can't): in what way is the soul of this person different from that of Harry Dresden?
--[X] Use DuMorne's grave or DuMorne's old home as a focus; DuMorne wanted him because Starborn, so find out what DuMorne knew
---[X] Use RVD for travel and ATP for stealth just in case.
--[X] Use a recording of our latest conversation with Maeve to learn what WInter knows of Starborn
-[X] Talk to Lydia - maybe her father or library know something - either identities of past starborn, or more on their nature in general
EDIT: Edits done to the vote based on QM's feedback.
Yeah Lasciel giving Lash just enough info to tell Harry he's got an important anti-Nemesis role but not enough to do much with that info is like "Tempt him to pick up the coin for full deets," Plan D. It's a very obvious path.
Ok then. If we can't study something directly, we can study something by the effects it has, and by studying something that isn't it and drawing comparisons. So, would this work?
[X] Plan indirect study
-[X] Do not burn the question, there's no reason to rush.
-[X] Crown questions:
--[X] Using Harry's pentacly necklace: What is the sum total knowledge of this Pentacle's original owner on the matter of Starborn?
--[X] Using Harry's blasting rod: In what qualitative ways is the magic of the owner of this blasting rod different from that of a statistically average White Council wizard?
--[X] Using a random passerby on the street: In what qualitative ways is the soul of this man different from that of Harry Dresden?
-[X] Talk to Lydia - maybe her father or library know something - either identities of past starborn, or more on their nature in general
First two questions work, the third one does not since the man on the street is mundane and thus boring plus they are still the subject not Harry so what you would get is 'they are not Starborn'
First two questions work, the third one does not since the man on the street is mundane and thus boring plus they are still the subject not Harry so what you would get is 'they are not Starborn'
Would a random talent, like a member of the Order of Cauldron work? Or would we get the same response without more detail? Or is it "the more magical the target, the better", i.e. we'd get best results by burning Merlin or other senior council wizard as a focus?
Would a random talent, like a member of the Order of Cauldron work? Or would we get the same response without more detail? Or is it "the more magical the target, the better", i.e. we'd get best results by burning Merlin or other senior council wizard as a focus?
"To be a wizard is to understand there's no getting something for nothing, every action invites reaction, every light has its shadow. Of course the best monster hunters are those who would be monsters, or at least that's how he sees it. I think that if anything he is more upset at the reminder of his childhoods, the reasons his first master selected him..." she pauses for a moment, a rare shadow of uncertainty over those bright green eyes. "I suspect his mother might have planned the for him to be born under those stars. If any mortal wizard could it would be Margret LaFey, Namshiel respected her, as much as he could be said to respect any mortal magician which is to say he wanted her.I have not shared either insight, please don't do so either."
In that precise moment the unmistakable rattle of semi-automatic fire blasts from the phone followed by put-upon sigh, like she had just found out her preferred color of crocs were out of stock. "I and going to be stuck dealing with this... foolish intransigence for the next couple days at least. It it urgent?"
If they had anything approximating that level of influence then reality would be dead by now.
I also wouldn't say they're bad at their jobs either, since reality still exists and the troubles of canon are the culmination of centuries of planning that you'll note didn't actually work out for Nemesis. They're far from perfect, but with what they're up against genuine incompetence at their core tasks would be fatal.
The more likely cause is the same as that of many other systemic problems; compromises necessary in the past compounding as they roll downhill from generation to generation.
As to the inability to manage relationships stuff? You're flat wrong there. They're the most diplomatically involved faction. They do business with everyone and everyone does business with them. There's a reason that it's the Unseelie Accords not the Wizard Pact, and that it has precisely zero meaningful competition.
You don't have to like them, in fact I'd say you shouldn't because they're assholes. You can also take philosophical issues with the narrative Butcher is pushing by making them like this and pushing them as effective, but you can't deny the state of the board for canon.
I don't like the horrific things they do and want to stop them as much as anyone here, but being awful isn't the same as being incapable* and a vast majority of the world they're operating in doesn't give a shit about the issues that make them a problem from a mortal perspective.
* To be clear, I'm not saying what they do is implicitly necessary or justified, just that they're capable of doing the job and aren't impulse driven idiots rotting at their posts.
You are not arguing against my argument. My argument is that the compromises necessary in the past were the results of situations the Outsiders had forced into being. It's not that they are failures, it's that they are flawed and cracked from millennia of attempted and only rarely successful sabotages.
I'll note prior to the courts they didn't have much natural autonamy in the world and literally couldn't act to some extent and before the fae courts they were according to jim reliant on gods for defenses of the gates.
Yes and the fact that the courts themselves are the result of a Darkhallow-like ritual is not a good thing. Maybe a necessary evil, but not something that should have remained in place for millennia.
As always underlined are errors in order of reading:
childhood not childhoods
planned for not planned the for
magician, which not magician which
her. I not her.I
by a put-upon not by put-upon
am not and
You are not arguing against my argument. My argument is that the compromises necessary in the past were the results of situations the Outsiders had forced into being. It's not that they are failures, it's that they are flawed and cracked from millennia of attempted and only rarely successful sabotages.
Yes and the fact that the courts themselves are the result of a Darkhallow-like ritual is not a good thing. Maybe a necessary evil, but not something that should have remained in place for millennia.
eh fairly sure it was far less sacrificing people so much as there was a sponsor and the previous iteration of fae wanted more accessibility to the world. So they got this going mind you things probably died. Like there would be barely enough people in the entire country of England to pull off the ritual that most of chicago was needed to equal mab in power that the darkhallow could of done. This isn't even mentioning the the mothers are significantly more powerful than mab and titania are on a far far higher scale them being on earth will actively fuck with the planet kind of power. Butchers described them as far closer to figures like uriel.
Added a subterfuge excellency not to reveal to Harry Lash's hypothesis about Margret planning for him to be Starborn.
@DragonParadox when you have time, I'd be grateful if you look at this design. It's probably the last one for quite a while, and would serve as part of Lydia's panoply as the weapon of choice.
Added a subterfuge excellency not to reveal to Harry Lash's hypothesis about Margret planning for him to be Starborn.
@DragonParadox when you have time, I'd be grateful if you look at this design. It's probably the last one for quite a while, and would serve as part of Lydia's panoply as the weapon of choice.
Hmm, any suggestions on how to flavor it more towards Lydia's native charmset? Ie keep the idea that instead of basic zombies she is summoning something more powerful, but flavor it more towards her gaining deeper connection to her father's legacy, rather than Kemmler's one? Or does this work as intended in the sense that Lydia is an Exigent of Death, not just Arawn?
In any case, I think we got us a proper upgradeable panoply - a 3-5 dot armor for Molly, a 3-5 dot armor for Lydia, and 1-5 dot weapon for Lydia. Damn, we need to kill a lot of vampires to get resources for them. Speaking of - does Damnation in Scarlet produce vanilla reds / whites / blacks (depending on what kind of vampire we use to make it)? Or does it produce some sort of new breed? Especially if we mix and match several sacrifices for it.
Damnation in Scarlet (6 pt. Root Element)
This Element can only be part of a Fascination.
The Splendor transforms its target into a vampire. A Splendor must be forged or upgraded
through the sundered power of a mighty vampire to have this Element. The target becomes a 14 th
generation Caitiff. The Splendor can only unleash this Element against a maximum of
(Splendor's rating) individuals per story. During extended downtime, assume it can create no
more than that number of vampires per week.
Anyway, commenting on the update - we are missing school tomorrow, with parental approval even. I guess saving reality trumps high school education. Now to sell this to Charity (joking, she's going to be more than ok with this). Harry knowing about being starborn, and his general education right now... He's going to be totally different than in canon quite soon, won't he?
Hmm, any suggestions on how to flavor it more towards Lydia's native charmset? Ie keep the idea that instead of basic zombies she is summoning something more powerful, but flavor it more towards her gaining deeper connection to her father's legacy, rather than Kemmler's one? Or does this work as intended in the sense that Lydia is an Exigent of Death, not just Arawn?
In any case, I think we got us a proper upgradeable panoply - a 3-5 dot armor for Molly, a 3-5 dot armor for Lydia, and 1-5 dot weapon for Lydia. Damn, we need to kill a lot of vampires to get resources for them. Speaking of - does Damnation in Scarlet produce vanilla reds / whites / blacks (depending on what kind of vampire we use to make it)? Or does it produce some sort of new breed? Especially if we mix and match several sacrifices for it.
The five dot version is Exigent of Death if you want to go that way yes
As for making vampires... you know I did not realize non-Abyssals could do that. Since you do have the charm and it is sorcery... you would bring forth another new type of being, in this case Kindred. Not quite as scary as making a new incarna since they are 14th generation, but if you want undead blooddrinkers for some reason...
Since you do have the charm and it is sorcery... you would bring forth another new type of being, in this case Kindred. Not quite as scary as making a new incarna since they are 14th generation, but if you want undead blooddrinkers for some reason...
As for making vampires... you know I did not realize non0Abyssals could do that. Since you do have the charm and it is sorcery... you would bring forth another new type of being, in this case Kindred. Not quite as scary as making a new incarna since they are 14th generation, but if you want undead blooddrinkers for some reason...
Wait... WoD kindred? Like straight up? Would the diablerie be possible for them when feeding on elder native vampires? At the very least this is a viable resolution for some of the members of the Fellowship of Saint Giles. It would be poetic for Red Court to suffer the same fate they have previously inflicted on others. MIght also be a solution to some of White Court youngsters (though weaknesses of the kindred are much more severe than those of White Court).
This might quickly spin out of control though. Probably should be put into "awesome, but probably actually terrible ideas, open in case of apocalypse" box. If we ever need a quickly self-replicating army (and lack access to proper dragonblooded), we could make some kindred, have them diablerize some ancient monsters with our help to lower their generation, and then start mass-production of vampires.
What kind of transformation in general would be more emblematic of Daughter of Arawn rather than Exigent of Death? Just in general, I'll stat it out.
EDIT2: At some point Molly is totally going to become known as the mother of monsters with the amount of various new kinds of beings we are set to bring into the world.
? I think twisting of the mind is less broad than generalized twisting? I am not sure I understand you. My comment was how there was no option in Sacred Protection to create a generalized Shaping immunity, only a perfect defense against mind twisting.
Twisting of the mind can be both mundane and supernatural.
IPM for example, will protect you against indoctrination and brainwashing with chemicals and both physical and pyschological torture, in addition to just pure magic.
This Splendor defines that which cannot threaten those within its influence, according to the
Splendor's character as defined by appropriate Form Elements.
It provides immunity to damage from wind, cold, and electricity (air); being crushed, cut, or
pierced by stone or metal (earth); being burned (fire); being drowned (water); being poisoned or
struck by wooden objects (wood); disease (death); possession (spirit); or the twisting of the mind
by supernatural powers (dreams). If its protection is bestowed by a Fascination, it lasts for a
number of hours equal to the Splendor's rating, and may be set to persist indefinitely while
within the Splendor's influence in the case of Forms such as Form of the Hearth.
If more than one characteristic is drawn upon when this Element grants its Protection, then
instead of invincibility, damage is simply downgraded from aggravated to lethal, lethal to
bashing, and bashing damage cut in half after soak (round down), while immunity to possession
and thought alteration become the ability to make a Willpower roll at difficulty (10 – Splendor's
rating) to immediately shake the effect off, and immunity to disease becomes the ability to make
a Stamina roll at difficulty (10 – Splendor's rating) to immediately shake the infection off.
Dreams is just magic and the fantastic; magic doing shit like turning you into ice or salt or an animal is very much in the thematic.
Protecting against that kind of change seems well in its purview.
Mystic fortification shifts rolls and costs, it doesn't completely change the basis of the feature.
On the Jade talisman stuff, I was thinking of stacking them for Lydia. Every mote makes a difference for her.
Mystic Fortification (1 pt. Mystic Element)
One of the Splendor's snares or benefits is particularly wicked or potent. Modify one roll
associated with the Splendor by increasing or decreasing its difficulty by two, or modify one
value associated with activating or resisting its effects (such as the number of points of
Willpower that must be spent to shake off a Beautiful Lie) by two.
If Im wrong, I'd add Form of Dreams and Nightmares in addition to Mystic Fortification, since.
2)Oh, I agree for Lydia.
I might think some things are more important right now, but I definitely agree for Lydia.
COMMENTARY
Question turns up Thomas and Lara as part of the Venatori, but not Justine. Pity.
At least now we have added reason to take a second look around at the people around them.
Guess thats a project for next turn.
And Odin's fingers turn up again. Sly old codger.
We have defined at least two factions of Outsiders/Elder entities here
The ones who are at the Outer Gates trying to break in physically, and those who are trying to be remembered and worshipped to extend their power into reality.
Kallimarchos was a Greek poet, scholar and archivist who worked at the Library of Alexandria
3rd century BC.
Not sure if its relevant; might be.
Naagloshii do canonically have a form of intellectus relating to causing pain (both physical and emotional) to people. The Crown is unique in how broad it is. In some ways it is even more powerful than archangel's site - I have no doubt that Uriel can't just know who all Nemesis infected are.
Read The Warrior short story again, and Uriel's talk with Dresden there about the breadth of his purview at the end.
I sipped some more Scotch. "Come to think of it, there are a lot of things I don't get about this whole situation."
"And you want an explanation of some kind?" asked a man seated in the pew beside me.
I just about jumped out of my skin.
He was an older man. He had dark skin and silver-white hair, and he wore a workman's blue jumpsuit, like you often see on janitors. The name tag read JAKE. "You," I breathed. "You're the archangel. You're Uriel."
He shrugged. The gesture carried acknowledgment, somehow.
"What are you doing here?" I asked—maybe a bit blearily. I was concussed and half the flask was gone.
"Perhaps I'm a hallucination brought on by head trauma and alcohol," he said.
"Oh," I said. I peered at him, and then offered him the flask. "Want a belt?"
"Very kind," he said, and took a swig from the flask. He passed it back to me. "I don't exactly make it a habit to do this, but if you've got questions, ask them." "Okay," I said. "Why did you guys let Michael get so screwed up?"
"We didn't let him do anything," Jake replied calmly. "He chose to hazard himself in battle against the enemy. The enemy chose to shoot him, and where to point the gun and when to pull the trigger. He survived the experience."
"So in other words, God was doing nothing to help."
Jake smiled. "Wouldn't say that. But you got to understand, son. God isn't about making good things happen to you, or bad things happen to you. He's all about you making choices—exercising the gift of free will. God wants you to have good things and a good life, but He won't gift wrap them for you. You have to choose the actions that lead you to that life."
"Free will, huh?"
"Yes. For example, your free will on that island."
I eyed him and sipped more Scotch. "You saw the Valkyrie staring at Michael. You thought he was in danger. So even though it was your turn, you sent him up to the helicopter in your place."
"No good deed goes unpunished," I said, with one too many sh sounds. "That's where he got hurt."
Jake shrugged. "But if you hadn't, you'd have died in that harness, and he'd have died on that island."
I scowled. "What?" Jake waved a hand. "I won't bore you with details, but suffice to say that your choice in that moment changed everything."
"But you lost a Knight," I said. "A warrior."
Jake smiled. "Did we?"
"He can barely walk without that cane. Sure, he handled Douglas, but that's a far cry from dealing with a Denarian."
"Ah," Jake said, "you mean warrior in the literal sense."
"What other kind of warrior is there?" I asked.
"The important kind."
I frowned again. "Harry," Jake said, sighing. "The conflict between light and darkness rages on so many levels that you literally could not understand it all. Not yet, anyway. Sometimes that battlefield is a literal one. Sometimes it's a great deal more nebulous and metaphorical."
"But Michael and I are literal guys," I said.
Jake actually laughed. "Yeah? Do you think we angled to have you brought into this situation because we needed you to beat someone up?"
"Well. Generally speaking. Yeah." I gestured with the flask. "Pretty much all we did was beat up this guy who had good intentions and who was desperate to do something to help." Jake shook his head. "The real war happened when you weren't looking."
"Huh?"
"Courtney," Jake said. "The little girl who almost got hit by a car."
"What about her?" I asked.
"You saved her life," he said. "Moreover, you noted the bruise on her cheek—one she acquired from her abusive father. Your presence heightened her mother's response to the realization that her daughter was being abused. She moved out the next morning." He spread his hands. "In that moment, you saved the child's life, prevented her mother from alcohol addiction in response to the loss, and shattered a generational cycle of abuse more than three hundred years old."
"I ... um."
"Chuck the electrician," Jake continued. "He was drunk because he'd been fighting with his wife. Two months from now, their four-year-old daughter is going to be diagnosed with cancer and require a marrow transplant. Her father is the only viable donor. You saved his life with what you did—and his daughter's life, too. And the struggle that family is going to face together is going to leave them stronger and happier than they've ever been."
I grunted. "That smells an awful lot like predestination to me. What if those people choose something different?"
"It's a complex issue," Jake admitted. "But think of the course of the future as, oh, flowing water. If you know the lay of the land, you can make a good guess where it's going. Now, someone can always come along and dig a ditch and change that flow of water—but honestly, you'd be shocked how seldom people truly choose to exercise their will within their lives."
I grunted. "What about second baseperson Kelly? I saved her life, too?"
"No. But you made a young woman feel better in a moment where she felt as though she didn't have anyone she could talk to. Just a few kind words. But it's going to make her think about the difference those words made. She's got a good chance of winding up as a counselor to her fellow man. The five minutes of kindness you showed her is going to help thousands of others." He spread his hands. "And that only takes into account the past day. Despair and pain were averted, loss and tragedy thwarted. Do you think you haven't struck a blow for the light, Warrior?"
"Um . . ."
"And last but not least, let's not forget Michael," he said. "He's a good man, but where his children are involved, he can be completely irrational. He was a hairbreadth from losing control when he stood over Douglas on the beach. Your words, your presence, your will helped him to choose mercy over vengeance."
I just stared at him for a moment. "But . . . I didn't actually mean to do any of that."
He smiled. "But you chose the actions that led to it. No one forced you to do it. And to those people, what you did saved them from danger as real as any creature of the night." He turned to look down at the church below and pursed his lips. "People have far more power than they realize, if they would only choose to use it. Michael might not be cutting demons with a sword anymore, Harry. But don't think for a second that he isn't still fighting the good fight. It's just harder for you to see the results from down here."
I swigged more Scotch, thinking about that.
"He's happier now," I said. "His family, too."
"Funny how making good choices leads to that."
"What about Father Douglas?" I asked. "What's going to happen?"
"For the most part," Jake said, "that will be up to him. Hopefully, he'll choose to accept his errors and change his life for the better."
I nodded slowly. Then I said, "Let's talk about my bill."
Jake's eyebrows shot up. "What?"
"My bill," I said, enunciating. "You dragged me into this mess. You can pay me, same as any other client. Where do I send the invoice?"
"You're . . . you're trying to bill the Lord God Almighty?" Jake said, as if he couldn't quite believe it.
"Hel—uh, heck no," I said. "I'm billing you."
"That isn't really how we work."
"It is if you want to work with me," I told him, thrusting out my jaw. "Cough up. Otherwise, maybe next time I'll just stand around whistling when you want me to help you out."
Jake's face broadened into a wide, merry grin, and laughter filled his voice. "No, you won't," he said, and vanished.
I scowled ferociously at the empty space where he'd been a moment before. "Cheapskate," I muttered.
But I was pretty sure he was right.
I have no doubt that Uriel knows every single Nemesis-touched person on this and several other layers of reality as soon as Nemesis does itself, as well as a list of potential targets. Even without the intellectus that angels are supposed to have? Just the ability to look back in time and multitask means its trivial for him to track any single Nfested back up the chain.
In this very AU he straight up told us he knew when Nemesis and its agents were maneuvering to do Molly harm and maneuvered it into putting Molly near the Infernal Exaltation instead.
There's just rules to what he and his colleague are allowed to do at all, and even when he is allowed to act, sometimes the consequences are not worth it.
He has long internalized that Can =/= Should, a lesson that many an Exalt takes time to learn.
OOC: Good thought on the birth certificate, but one thing Molly would have had no way of knowing is that Harry does not have the original and a copy is not good enough. Are you guys willing to burn the Harry question? Also I really hope there is no canonical place of birth for Dresden. I could not find one online, all it said is that Malcom Dresden took his son traveling across the country and I have this idea of him doing shows in small towns and always moving around which is how he managed to keep ahead of the many people interested in him and Harry for as long as he did.
COMMENTARY
Interesting that the Archive is apparently getting involved in direct action in this setting.
To my understanding, she generally preferred to avoid that sort of thing. I wonder what was critical enough to make her take the field; I mean, if they're carrying RPGs, then this was a planned strike, not something that broke out by mistake.
No canonical location stated for Harry's place of birth.
Going to point out that Chaunzaggaroth told Dresden that Hell knew his mother and wanted her.
"Harry. Blackstone. Dresden," Chauncy repeated carefully. "Harry as in Harry Houdini? Blackstone, the stage illusionist?"
I nodded. "My dad was a stage musician. When I was born, he gave me those names. They were always his heroes. I think if my mother had survived the birth, she would have slapped him for it." I made a few more notes on my page, getting ideas down on paper before they fled from memory. "Indeed," Chauncy agreed. "Your mother was a most direct and willful woman. Her loss was a great sadness to all of us." I blinked, startled, and the pencil fell from my fingers. I stared at the demon for a moment. "You … you knew my mother? You knew Margaret Gwendolyn Dresden?" Chauncy regarded me without expression or emotion. "Many in the underworld were … familiar with her, Harry Blackstone Dresden, though under a different name. Her coming was awaited with great anticipation, but the Dark Prince lost her, in the end." "What do you mean? What are you talking about?"
Chauncy's eyes gleamed with avarice. "Didn't you know about your mother's past, Mr. Dresden? A pity that we didn't have this conversation sooner. You might have added it into the bargain we made. Of course, if you would like to forfeit another name, to know all about your mother's past, her …" his voice twisted with distaste, "redemption, and the unnatural deaths of both mother and father, I am certain we can work something out."
I gritted my teeth in a sudden rush of childlike frustration. My heart pounded in my ears. My mother's dark past? I had expected that she was a wizardess, but I had never been able to prove anything, one way or another. Unnatural deaths? My father had perished in his sleep, of an aneurism, when I was young. My mother had died in childbirth.
Or had they? A sudden, burning desire to know filled me, starting at my gut and rolling outward through my body—to know who my mother was, what she had known. She had left me her silver pentacle, but I knew nothing of the sort of person she was, other than what my gentle and too-generous father had told me before his death. What were my parents like? How had they perished and why? Had they been killed? Did they have enemies lurking out there, somewhere? If so, had I inherited them?
My mother's dark past. Did that explain my own fascination with the darker powers, my somewhat-less-than-sterling adherence to the rules of the White Council that I considered foolish or inconvenient?
I looked up at the demon, and felt like a sucker. I had been set up. He had intended, all along, to dangle this information in front of me as bait. He wanted to get my whole name, if he could, or more.
"I can show them to you, Harry Blackstone Dresden, as they really are," Chaunzaggoroth assured me, his voice dulcet. "You've never seen your mother's face. I can give that to you. You've never heard her voice. I can let you hear that as well. You know nothing of what sort of people your parents were—or if you have any other family out there. Family, Harry Blackstone Dresden. Blood. Every bit as tormented and alone as you are …"
I stared at the demon's hideous form and listened to his soothing, relaxing voice. Family. Was it possible that I had a family? Aunts? Uncles? Cousins? Others, like me, perhaps, moving through the secret societies of the wizards, hidden from the view of the mortal world?
"The price is comparatively low. What need have you for your immortal soul when your body is finished with it? What harm to pass on to me only one more name? This is not information easily gained, even by my kind. You may not have the chance to garner it again." The demon pressed his pincers against the barrier of the conjuring circle. His beaklike maw fairly trembled with eagerness.
"Forget it," I said quietly. "No deal."
Finding out that a Denarian knew her and wanted her by comparison isnt even going to register on the weirdness scale.
It just suggests that Lash doesnt have access to all Dresden's memories.
That, or is being unnecessarily solicitous of his feelings.
There is no reason to burn the Harry question. Bunch of potential alternatives for Starborn information:
=Use a scene, any scene, with Harry as the Crown focus for what Starborn are; scenes are valid foci, and are renewable
=Use a scene with Harry as a focus to learn where he was born, then use his birthplace as a focus.
=Use DuMorne's grave or DuMorne's old home as a focus; DuMorne wanted him and Elaine because Starborn, so find out what DuMorne knew =Use the gas station where he blew up and banished his first Walker, He Who Walks Behind, as a focus.
=Use any of the victims of the Blood Rites murders; those were all channelling the power of an Outsider
=Use his mother's grave, assuming he knows where either is
=Use his silver pentacle, which his mother left to him =Use a recording of our last scene with Maeve to learn what Winter knows about the Starborn
=Use a recording of our conversation with Odin to learn what Odin knows about the Starborn
Wait... WoD kindred? Like straight up? Would the diablerie be possible for them when feeding on elder native vampires? At the very least this is a viable resolution for some of the members of the Fellowship of Saint Giles. It would be poetic for Red Court to suffer the same fate they have previously inflicted on others. MIght also be a solution to some of White Court youngsters (though weaknesses of the kindred are much more severe than those of White Court).
This might quickly spin out of control though. Probably should be put into "awesome, but probably actually terrible ideas, open in case of apocalypse" box. If we ever need a quickly self-replicating army (and lack access to proper dragonblooded), we could make some kindred, have them diablerize some ancient monsters with our help to lower their generation, and then start mass-production of vampires.
That Molly's present understanding does not cover. All she knows is that if she uses that particular sorcery she will produce a blood drinking corpse of relatively modest powers (equivalent to a newly educated Jade Court vampire) with the soul and mind that the person possessed in life one that will require a strong moral code to keep them from degenerating away from humanity.
Anyway, commenting on the update - we are missing school tomorrow, with parental approval even. I guess saving reality trumps high school education. Now to sell this to Charity (joking, she's going to be more than ok with this). Harry knowing about being starborn, and his general education right now... He's going to be totally different than in canon quite soon, won't he?
Wait, I think we missed the simplest solution - why don't we go look for the copy that's in the statehouse?
As for making vampires... you know I did not realize non-Abyssals could do that. Since you do have the charm and it is sorcery... you would bring forth another new type of being, in this case Kindred. Not quite as scary as making a new incarna since they are 14th generation, but if you want undead blooddrinkers for some reason...
The Kindred being what they are is not just undeath and hunger, but there are also divine curses involved.
Well, if they are all Caitiff there would be no Clan-curses at least, but the big stuff about the sun would need explanation.
As would some of their weirder traits, like their blood being both addictive, magically binding (bloodbond is one of the worst mindfucks out there and in crossovers it can outright destroy a Mage's connection his Avatar) and very empowering, comparable to making people half-Reds for a month per ingestion.
The Kindred being what they are is not just undeath and hunger, but there are also divine curses involved.
Well, if they are all Caitiff there would be no Clan-curses at least, but the big stuff about the sun would need explanation.
As would some of their weirder traits, like their blood being both addictive, magically binding (bloodbond is one of the worst mindfucks out there and in crossovers it can outright destroy a Mage's connection his Avatar) and very empowering, comparable to making people half-Reds for a month per ingestion.
I mean yeah they are unholy abominations hated by the sun, comes with taking a living being and pulling their soul structure inside out and it does say you have to murder a powerful vampire to make that splendor. We are talking Lord of the Outer Night as a minimum bar here. They are going to inherit some nasty stuff
You are not arguing against my argument. My argument is that the compromises necessary in the past were the results of situations the Outsiders had forced into being. It's not that they are failures, it's that they are flawed and cracked from millennia of attempted and only rarely successful sabotages.
Maybe I'm misreading it, but it looks like the difference in our points is that I don't really think they're broken in any functional capacity. Their compromises are bad because they do awful things to people, not because they're unsustainable or otherwise falling apart.
The rising potential of a masquerade breach is a factor that could degrade the effectiveness of their operations, but that isn't a manifest problem yet.
To an extent it doesn't really make a difference, pretty much all of us agree the situation shouldn't be allowed to continue as regardless of how sustainable they currently are.
The more important question is how to reach a stable alternative system.
The example it gives is upping the willpower cost of resisting a power, not wholesale changing the activation condition. MF changes quantitative values, not qualitative properties.
I have no doubt that Uriel knows every single Nemesis-touched person on this and several other layers of reality as soon as Nemesis does itself, as well as a list of potential targets. Even without the intellectus that angels are supposed to have? Just the ability to look back in time and multitask means its trivial for him to track any single Nfested back up the chain.
You were the one who posted the quote that mentions supernatural detection not working on Nemesis very well and Uriel not having anything on this in the same breath. Nemesis is an archangel tier stealth specialist, Uriel's knowledge is at very least in question.
The white god clearly doesn't give everyone the same chances, and free will is for mortals. Outsiders aren't part of Heaven's game with Hell or any other part of reality, the gates exist to deny them a seat at the table. It seems more likely to me that he'd do a lot more to keep nemesis away from people if he actually could find it all.
Twisting of the mind can be both mundane and supernatural.
IPM for example, will protect you against indoctrination and brainwashing with chemicals and both physical and pyschological torture, in addition to just pure magic.
This Splendor defines that which cannot threaten those within its influence, according to the
Splendor's character as defined by appropriate Form Elements.
It provides immunity to damage from wind, cold, and electricity (air); being crushed, cut, or
pierced by stone or metal (earth); being burned (fire); being drowned (water); being poisoned or
struck by wooden objects (wood); disease (death); possession (spirit); or the twisting of the mind
by supernatural powers (dreams). If its protection is bestowed by a Fascination, it lasts for a
number of hours equal to the Splendor's rating, and may be set to persist indefinitely while
within the Splendor's influence in the case of Forms such as Form of the Hearth.
If more than one characteristic is drawn upon when this Element grants its Protection, then
instead of invincibility, damage is simply downgraded from aggravated to lethal, lethal to
bashing, and bashing damage cut in half after soak (round down), while immunity to possession
and thought alteration become the ability to make a Willpower roll at difficulty (10 – Splendor's
rating) to immediately shake the effect off, and immunity to disease becomes the ability to make
a Stamina roll at difficulty (10 – Splendor's rating) to immediately shake the infection off. Dreams is just magic and the fantastic; magic doing shit like turning you into ice or salt or an animal is very much in the thematic.
Protecting against that kind of change seems well in its purview.
I have no doubt that Uriel knows every single Nemesis-touched person on this and several other layers of reality as soon as Nemesis does itself, as well as a list of potential targets. Even without the intellectus that angels are supposed to have? Just the ability to look back in time and multitask means its trivial for him to track any single Nfested back up the chain.
In this very AU he straight up told us he knew when Nemesis and its agents were maneuvering to do Molly harm and maneuvered it into putting Molly near the Infernal Exaltation instead.
There's just rules to what he and his colleague are allowed to do at all, and even when he is allowed to act, sometimes the consequences are not worth it.
He has long internalized that Can =/= Should, a lesson that many an Exalt takes time to learn.
That's certainly one interpretation. I don't think it's correct. Unlike everyone else, Outsiders aren't part of the system, aren't covered by the rules - they are very literal Outsiders. Uriel might be able to identify the agents afterwards, he's very smart, but he can't do this beforehand. At least Molly certainly cared enough to at least give angels hints to how track Nemesis:
Now isn't that a question loaded for bear. Do I feel sorry for the mind-twisting horror who wants to defile and destroy everything I hold dear? No, all the noes in the universe. But I still sorry for what it used to be, the same way you would for the person made into a vampire of the Black Court. "Kind of, it was used... transformed. I'll just tell you what I saw and you all can judge." So saying you recount the seeming of the cards, the way you had seen them interact with the garden in the vision and with each other ending on an explanation of Nemesis' flaw: "It daydreams that it is the being it has infected and in the sweetness of the lies it tells itself the liar is lulled into missing the appointed hour when it might do the most harm."
Glancing briefly upwards past the white of the ceiling to the blue beyond you add. "If someone had say an account of when the thing acted and can build counterfactuals for when it might have acted sooner for more harm that should yield a picture of where it likes to linger." As your mother looks at you funny you shrug. Presumably angels do not need hints, but it can't hurt to say something just in case.
I forget - didn't we burn that for something already? Also, not sure if this works for the whole Winter. It almost certainly wouldn't cover Mab and Mother Winter, I think. EDIT: Anyway, added in for now, and I'm going to sleep.
Maybe I'm misreading it, but it looks like the difference in our points is that I don't really think they're broken in any functional capacity. Their compromises are bad because they do awful things to people, not because they're unsustainable or otherwise falling apart.
The rising potential of a masquerade breach is a factor that could degrade the effectiveness of their operations, but that isn't a manifest problem yet.
To an extent it doesn't really make a difference, pretty much all of us agree the situation shouldn't be allowed to continue as regardless of how sustainable they currently are.
The more important question is how to reach a stable alternative system.
The example it gives is upping the willpower cost of resisting a power, not wholesale changing the activation condition. MF changes quantitative values, not qualitative properties.
You were the one who posted the quote that mentions supernatural detection not working on Nemesis very well and Uriel not having anything on this in the same breath. Nemesis is an archangel tier stealth specialist, Uriel's knowledge is at very least in question.
The white god clearly doesn't give everyone the same chances, and free will is for mortals. Outsiders aren't part of Heaven's game with Hell or any other part of reality, the gates exist to deny them a seat at the table. It seems more likely to me that he'd do a lot more to keep nemesis away from people if he actually could find it all.
