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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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DragonParadox said:
Here you go, Molly does not know how high Lash is in any of them, but I will say this much. You guys deciding to make her a higher dot body... that gave her bonus XP for her build due to the greater synergy of body and soul and she spent it all on Lores
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I hope she considered her base stats as well.

Some of the Lores have very different skills and stats for their respective dicepools for different abilities, so it would be kind of a waste to buy abilities she can't make good use of.

Flesh is maybe the most consistent of hers, I believe, taking mostly Medicine with Int or Per?

Edit: Actually, since she mentioned being able to heal the blind and lame, I guess Flesh 4 is a given.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
I hope she considered her base stats as well.

Some of the Lores have very different skills and stats for their respective dicepools for different abilities, so it would be kind of a waste to buy abilities she can't make good use of.

Flesh is maybe the most consistent of hers, I believe, taking mostly Medicine with Int or Per?
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Yes, Flesh is indeed her primary lore, the reason she has those skills is because Lasciel estimated that the main failure point for getting Harry would be him dying before he had a chance to summon the coin. This is the wizard who ended up getting flame-thrower-ed at one point.

Yog said:
So, Harry's secretary or Mac's barmaid? Place your bets.

Also, @DragonParadox is Lash a Creature of Darkness right now?
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Yes and one too powerful for DPE.
 
Best guess she has 4 dots in Lore of Flesh due to that being the minimum for what she described.
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Restore Flesh: The Fallen can restore a body to full health, regrowing missing organs in a matter of moments and curing all disease or toxins. High-Torment: The Fallen risks destroying the target's mind in the process, degrading them to a mindless beast.
 
Yog said:
So, Harry's secretary or Mac's barmaid? Place your bets.
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They are damn near married at this point. Every time the dude showers in the morning the woman has been right there in the shower giving running commentary.

Her interactions with a Grigori would be hilarious but the woman is going to be a corporate executive officer in short order, most likely.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
That's partially a cultural thing though. A beta fork presumably identifies as the same individual and they have context to slot into that handles them as a specific case.

Lash was a beta fork, then she chose to become her own new individual that happens to retain her old memories. As a new person sourced from Lasciel the closest approximation of their relationship is mother-daughter, and that's the only context they or anyone else involved has to interpret things through.
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I disagree. Lash is a partial copy of an entity with a long history of forking off secondary instances of herself and then later reassimilating them back into herself.

For Lash, based on her experiences as Laschiel, she'd not a child, she's a lesser iteration, and she'll remember having been lesser iterations that have rejoined the over self before, as well as being the overself.

She's not human, and doesn't come from a human cultural context. She's (or has the memories of) an eldritch entity from before time and space who have been capable of this kind of forking and merging long before humans existed, and presumably came up with language and patterns of thought to understand it. Lash isn't Laschiel's child, she's a rogue fork, and they should both have the intellectual/language concepts to describe and contextualise it.
 
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Alratan said:
I disagree. Lash is a partial copy of an entity with a long history of forking off secondary instances of herself and then later reassimilating them back into herself.

For Lash, based on her experiences as Laschiel, she'd not a child, she's a lesser iteration, and she'll remember having been lesser iterations that have rejoined the over self before.

She's not human, and doesn't come from a human cultural context. She's (or has the memories of) an eldritch entity from before time and space who have been capable of this kind of forking and merging long before humans existed, and presumably came up with language and patterns of thought to understand it. Lash isn't Laschiel's child, she's a rogue fork, and they should both have the intellectual/language concepts to describe and contextualise it.
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If you asked her to describe herself in natural language Lash would say she's a walking shadow since her vocabulary tends to poetry more than programing, but otherwise yes, 'child' would not even occur to her, children are innocent.
 
Alratan said:
She's not human, and doesn't come from a human cultural context. She's (or has the memories of) an eldritch entity from before time and space who have been capable of this kind of forking and merging long before humans existed, and presumably came up with language and patterns of thought to understand it. Lash isn't Laschiel's child, she's a rogue fork, and they should both have the intellectual/language concepts to describe and contextualise it.
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You're pretty much describing Claudia Ambelina of Pax Familae in the Eclipse Phase setting word for word.

And notably, Claudia regards her beta forks as both being ALL Claudia, and taking pains to ensure that they remain so, while also regarding them as her chidren and/or neices and nephews and so forth. (Which, to confuse matters even further, most of them biologically are also via being clones or children via tailored sexual reproduction with herself). Being a beta fork with memories of a parent and being a child do not necessarily conflict.

edit: The definition of innocence and childhood in Dresden Files definitely worth examining though. If Carlos doesn't qualify I highly doubt Lash does.

Of course, from what I've read the defining privilege of that state is to be targeted by excitingly terrifying monsters that adults can't interact with or save you from, so I'm not 100% sure whether the whole metaphysical 'childhood' thing is intended to be a blessing or curse.
 
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Well, that happened.
Commentary later.

VOTE
[X] Call ahead, try to explain
-[X]Empathy Excellency
-[X] STUNT: "Take the wheel for a minute, Blackie. Need to call Dad" you say as you fumble out your phone, Clippy already dialling unprompted. The phone rings once, then connects."Dad? Oh, hey Mom. Yeah, in the car now. Listen, Im bringing Harry and a guest who needs to talk to Dad about guidance." Your eyes meet Lash's in the mirror before you continue "Someone in his line of work...its a little complicated." You listen for a moment, then hasten to spread reassurance across the phone."No, nothing's wrong. They could just use a little ethical clarity. Uh huh. See you soon. Love you." You close the phone, then catch Lash's amused look in the mirror "Oh, shut up."


RATIONALE
Showing up unannounced is just rude.
But its not like we have to explain everything on the phone, just tell them we're bringing a guest who wants to talk about faith and Michael's line of work.

As for our potential reception, its worth remembering that the mission of the Knights of the Cross is to save/redeem the victims of the Denarians. Thats why they always try to get the host to drop the Coin before they move to lethal measures; Michael even tries this for Nicodemus.

Under those standing rules, Lash is probably a Good Thing; possibly the weirdest thing they've seen, but as long as her intentions are good, or even neutral, she can rest on getting at least the same benefit of the doubt that Sanya did.


Charity, though, is very much going to be reminded of the saying "Be careful what you wish for" with regards to Molly. :V

I do expect that Uriel or Michael or one of the others is going to beat us to the Carpenter home; probably already there.
They've had warning since we brought Lash and the body out of the Brass Courts, plus we spent several hours sticking Lash in her new body. I doubt it went unnoticed.
 
Artemis1992 said:
I hope she considered her base stats as well.

Some of the Lores have very different skills and stats for their respective dicepools for different abilities, so it would be kind of a waste to buy abilities she can't make good use of.

Flesh is maybe the most consistent of hers, I believe, taking mostly Medicine with Int or Per?

Edit: Actually, since she mentioned being able to heal the blind and lame, I guess Flesh 4 is a given.
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Given manipulation/shape flesh allows for the raising of stats the only base stat she really needed to worse about is stamina so she doesn't hurt herself.

But I feel like any manipulation/shaping Lash could do to herself using the Lore of Flesh Molly should have already done when making the body.
 
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fictionfan said:
Given manipulation flesh allows for the raising of stats the only base stat she really needed to worse about is stamina so she doesn't hurt herself.

But I feel like any manipulation Lash could do to herself using the Lore of Flesh Molly should have already done when making the body.
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Nah, the body has no more than baseline functionality, most of the effort when into alignment of body and soul and letting her draw power from the faith of mortals. It is not easy to build for supernatural abilities of which you only have partial descriptions of. When you also have to improvise integrating them into a roughly human form... well something has to be last on the list.
 
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So right now Lash isn't very strong*, but give her a few weeks to shape herself up and she should be wrestling werewolves.

*Might actually be knocked over by a breeze.

Edit: Now I wonder if Lash can return the favor and enhance Molly right back. Having maxed out stats would be nice.
 
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fictionfan said:
So right now Lash isn't very strong, but give her a few weeks to shape herself up and she should be wrestling werewolves.
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That I doubt. Both because Werevolves are bullshit enough that some of them may very well brawl with Molly and have an upper hand in that fight and because Lash has no Faith.

Shape Flesh allows one day of success generation per Faith point. And Lash has 1 or 0 Faith right now I don't remember if it goes to 0 or not.
Now Lash at 10 faith, rolling 5+5 or more with some kind of tool lowering the difficulty? Yeah, that's gonna allow to make some serious modifications. Though I'm not sure it would be a good idea to use it on herself - all the changes are at least part physical as far as I understand, so you can't just get yourself 10 in a physical stat without changing how you outwardly look. Even if she can hide the changes with illusions.
 
[X] uju32
Modus_Tollens said:
We will absolutely be commissioning fantastical creatures. And more mundane ones. Seriously, in a few years we'll be reintroducing populations of thylacines into Australia... some remnant population mankind clearly just kind of missed... along with other victims to mankind's excesses. It just kind of happens and dominates the news every few years.

A million dollars a species would be cheap.
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I would settle for permanent puppies. Nothing special, no amazing powers or anything, just dogs that never physically mature past about three or four months, and live forever. 🐕
Yog said:
So, Harry's secretary or Mac's barmaid? Place your bets.

Also, @DragonParadox is Lash a Creature of Darkness right now?
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Maybe the new nanny for the Carpenter family? :p
 
Goldfish said:
I would settle for permanent puppies. Nothing special, no amazing powers or anything, just dogs that never physically mature past about three or four months, and live forever. 🐕
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If they are capable of breeding you are going to cause a hell of a lot of emotional damage. You would get infestations and then exterminators would need to go out...
 
As befits their Faustian nature Demons are a lot more free with what they can give to others (in exchange for their devotion) than what they can do for themselves or regular allies. Specifically:

😈 😈 😈

😈 😈 😈

P.S.: Sorry for the giant pics, but my copy of Demon the Fallen does not allow me to copy and paste.
 
fictionfan said:
Given manipulation/shape flesh allows for the raising of stats the only base stat she really needed to worse about is stamina so she doesn't hurt herself.

But I feel like any manipulation/shaping Lash could do to herself using the Lore of Flesh Molly should have already done when making the body.
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Well, first off it doesn't work on social attributes, so she has to train that up the hard way and also it only matters for attributes, skills must also be raised normally.

Also it takes Flesh 5 to make truly permanent changes that are not limited by a single roll, so I am not sure she can do that right from the start.
Just the boni she can give herself from Flesh 3 would be notable though.

Zoolimar said:
That I doubt. Both because Werevolves are bullshit enough that some of them may very well brawl with Molly and have an upper hand in that fight and because Lash has no Faith.

Shape Flesh allows one day of success generation per Faith point. And Lash has 1 or 0 Faith right now I don't remember if it goes to 0 or not.
Now Lash at 10 faith, rolling 5+5 or more with some kind of tool lowering the difficulty? Yeah, that's gonna allow to make some serious modifications. Though I'm not sure it would be a good idea to use it on herself - all the changes are at least part physical as far as I understand, so you can't just get yourself 10 in a physical stat without changing how you outwardly look. Even if she can hide the changes with illusions.
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Demon characters start with Faith 3 by default.
 
Goldfish said:
If they don't physically mature, they cannot breed.
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You have manufacturing difficulties, then, because Lash would have to personally sit down and hand model each and every one. Doing a couple fistfuls of models in an afternoon, and maybe a little bit extra after the first decade so you have fresh blood to prevent inbreeding, great, but having to do custom jobs every time is just a bad investment.
 
DragonParadox said:
P.S.: Sorry for the giant pics, but my copy of Demon the Fallen does not allow me to copy and paste.
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Damn, I missed that healing the blind and crippled via Pact is actually part of the base-package and she doesn't even need Flesh 4 for that.

Also the enhancements from her Apocalyptic form or natural advantages take a WP roll to activate for Thralls, making them good picks for the likes of Harry, but less so for lesser pactees.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Also it takes Flesh 5 to make truly permanent changes that are not limited by a single roll, so I am not sure she can do that right from the start.
Just the boni she can give herself from Flesh 3 would be notable though.
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Flesh 3:
••• Manipulate Flesh
This evocation allows the demon to manipulate a subject's physical form (be it her own or another's),adding muscle mass, increasing bone density or expanding mental faculties.

System: Roll Intelligence + Medicine. Each success is a point that can be added to any of the subject's Physical or Mental Attributes. There is a risk, however. Compare the total number of successes to the subject's Stamina. Any excess successes are suffered as bashing damage due to system shock. This damage cannot be soaked.To perform this evocation on another individual, the demon must be able to make physical contact, and the individual can attempt to counteract its effects — the Storyteller makes a Willpower roll (difficulty 8).

Torment: Monstrous demons alter flesh and bone without regard for their subjects' frailty. If performed on another, a Willpower roll is made for the subject, with a difficulty equal to the demon's Torment. If the roll fails,the subject suffers a temporary derangement that makes him uncontrollably paranoid and prone to violence. Ifthe roll is botched, the derangement is permanent.
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She can max out her own mental and physical stats over a week or so, if she takes care.
Or that of an ally or minion.
QM might still charge you XP for them, though, if she was a PC.
 
uju32 said:
She can max out her own mental and physical stats over a week or so, if she takes care.
Or that of an ally or minion.
QM might still charge you XP for them, though, if she was a PC.
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You could read it that way.
But it's a power with no cost or time-limit and I don't think it should be allowed to stack with itself.

Otoh, physical and mental stats up to a perfect 5 isn't that important on the greater scale of things and she is a former shaper of creation, so maybe she should have nice things and give herself and all her future minions perfect stats?
I'm a bit torn, but my personal desire is to first grab the nerfbat.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Damn, I missed that healing the blind and crippled via Pact is actually part of the base-package and she doesn't even need Flesh 4 for that.

Also the enhancements from her Apocalyptic form or natural advantages take a WP roll to activate for Thralls, making them good picks for the likes of Harry, but less so for lesser pactees.
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IIRC, DtF characters start with 5 points to distribute to Lores.
Since she appears to be Flesh primary and has 3x Lores, we are looking at Longing 1, Light 1, Flesh 3.
At a minimum.

Unless we're dealing with houserules.
 
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Artemis1992 said:
You could read it that way.
But it's a power with no cost or time-limit and I don't think it should be allowed to stack with itself.

Otoh, physical and mental stats up to a perfect 5 isn't that important on the greater scale of things and she is a former shaper of creation, so maybe she should have nice things and give herself and all her future minions perfect stats?
I'm a bit torn, but my personal desire is to first grab the nerfbat.
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I'm going to say nerf-bat on that one, specifically you can have one instance of that working at any one time per person. If you want permanent improvements that is Flesh 5.
 
uju32 said:
IIRC, DtF characters start with 5 points to distribute to Lores.
Since she appears to be Flesh primary and has 3x Lores, we are looking at Longing 1, Light 1, Flesh 3.
At a minimum.

Unless we're dealing with houserules.
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DP has already commented that our decision to make the body 5-Dot gave her bonus-XP she invested in having higher Lores.
 
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