Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on Embassy Increased)
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on Embassy Increased)

[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges… and you can proactively offer Ministry involvement to match the Crows. (+1 to Ministry of Integrity Favorability, +20% to next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Increased Theocracy and Ministry Influence on the Embassy.)


I think the outposts are a bad idea due to already mentioned reasons, so options 3-5 are not that good in my opinion.
This leaves the other two options 1 and 2. And I honestly cannot decide which one is better here.

1) costs us less directly, however the Theocracy also pays pretty poorly for the gain of influence they get. Afterall, they get to put their Crows on that investigation team even with this minimal concession. It still means we dont have to give the MoI even more influence though, which is also nice.

2) The argument for 2) is pretty straightforward. Since there are already hardliner investigators on the team (the Crows), and we already give the Ministry of Law a post on the Judge panel, it is kind of reasonable to give the MoI, which does have very skilled investigators, a post on the investigation team. The upside for that is that we reach the minimum Favorability with the MoI this way. The downside is that we kinda dont really want that much MoI influence on our project.

We still need to give the MoI *something* to clear the event, this is certain. And this something will almost certainly always include giving them influence/agents on the project. So I guess the question is if this specific give would be a cheap enough concession from our own point of view, or if we should hope that we can get a better deal in a future vote.

I'm still uncertain tbh, so Id be interested in hearing your takes on this.
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on Embassy Increased)

Going for this on the main basis that the investigative arm would be a useful asset in mediating border conflicts and preventing sabotage, without fucking over our allies in collateral damage because the checkpoints are going to screw them badly in terms of nomad's necessary mobility.

Its not just a matter of security - following checkpoints means the nomads lose one major element of their safety - their ability to move without prior establishment and avoid attack.

With checkpoints it would be nearly trivially easy for someone getting information on their locations to simply plot out the possible ranges of a tribe and wipe them out.
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on Embassy Increased)
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on Embassy Increased)

I think giving the ministry investigative powers is just asking for trouble, and I'm not interested in the suggested dynamic shift for the polar people
 
[X] Support both with MoI Involvement. (+1 To Polar Theocracy Favorability, +1 To Ministry of Integrity Favorability. Increased Influence of Theocracy and Ministry, lesser WS nomad Dynamic Shift.)
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on Embassy Increased)
 
Shift in internal White Sky dynamics

I'm completely against option 3 due to this part.
The "Shift" will be to enforce a tighter control over the migration routes of the WS's affiliated Cloud Tribes. That would greatly limit their ability to recruit new tribes and severely strain their relationship with the tribes already under their influence.
The purpose of the checkpoints is to prevent conflicts with the Cloud Tribes by establishing fixed routes and passes. But that's pointless if by doing so we alienate the Cloud Tribes and encourage revolts and clashes by trying to restrict them too much.

I also want to remind everyone that we requested the Wang to adopt more of the WS's assimilation policies.
How are we going to go through that if we force Jaromila to employ harshers methods?
And that's not mentioning how much we would be undermining Jaromila's own position in her Confederation.
Overall a pretty bad option.

"Lesser WS nomad Dynamics Shift" may be acceptable. It's too ambigous to know, but it wouldn't be desirable in any case.
But the damage to the White Plumes favorabilty is too high a price.
It's already a near miracle that we started at +2 with them. Any trust we lose with the General would have to be bought back in blood. We can't waste it thoughtlessly.

That would leave option 5 as the only viable one of the check points variants.
But that gives up Embassy influence to both MoI and Theocracy.
As others have aptly explained, we don't only want the Summit to succeed. We want to retain ample control and influence of how the Embassy will develop moving forward. So any influence we give away must be carefully considered.
But the only option that doesn't increase Theocracy's influence is number 3, which I discarded at the very start. So there isn't much we can do in that front.

If it's an evenly split team, I assume we get some say into the ES side of the investigators. And the Theocracy would get a say in the WS side, ie the Crows.

All our interactions with the Crows, both in and out of story, have been good, imo. When Wu was exploring up top, they sought to here his side and reasoning before leaving him to his own devices.

When Zheng Fu was being rude, they were understanding and took it as a form of cultural misunderstanding. They were cool about Ling Qi's access to information from the Crone, and when they asked for something, it was reasonable: something to reduce friction between workers and soldiers since they'll be working together for the foreseeable future.

They are not beholden to anyone but the Crowfather, and so can't be easily bosses around by politics too. I don't think their a counterbalance on their own. If not, again, we'll have ES investigators in it too.

Well, to be fair, that was all the same, single Crow. As we have seen with Cao, a single person isn't enough to judge the disposition of an entire organization. The truth is we don't have enough sample data to determine the character of the Crows as a whole.

I'm also against giving MoI agents too much free reign here. But I also don't want the thread to build this image of the MoI being malicious while the Crows are perfectly neutral, reasonable and unbiased.

This vote ties with the point a raised in another post.
How do we want to regard the MoI as? Difficult ally? Enemy? The weather?
Is the MoI having more influence in the Embassy an inherently bad thing?

I personally think it depends. I already argued how having Central Judges is actually a good thing. Legitimacy without direct control.
But I agree having MoI agents roaming around the border may be too much. As they won't just have influence on how cases are judged but also which cases are worth judging.
The Polar Nation is concerned that the ES will blanket any and all attacks as their responsibility. Giving MoI influence here would make those concerns even more valid.

So I think I will go with option 1. Because we can source our investigators from the Diao and the Emerald Seas's Ministry of Law, so we aren't giving too much control to the Theocracy either.

[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on Embassy Increased)
 
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The thing is the crows and the MoI are not connected at all. People have talked about "balancing" them or what not but that isn't really how it works.

The crows are a White Sky problem. It's for them to manage their politics.

The MoI are similarly our internal problem to manage.
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on Embassy Increased)
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges… and you can proactively offer Ministry involvement to match the Crows. (+1 to Ministry of Integrity Favorability, +20% to next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Increased Theocracy and Ministry Influence on the Embassy.)

Unique opportunity to force pick what the MoI need to contribute, with MoI and Theocracy influence being strictly centered on a few powerful persons instead of a multitude of meddling middle managers.

I see this as a worthwhile exchange for a budget to when we inevitably need to snub the MoI again.
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on Embassy Increased)
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges… and you can proactively offer Ministry involvement to match the Crows. (+1 to Ministry of Integrity Favorability, +20% to next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Increased Theocracy and Ministry Influence on the Embassy.)

I'm opposed to any dynamic shift because I think Jaromilla losing influence will be a long term loss to us.

I also think this is a cheap way to buy some MoI influence that we're definitely going to need to spend on a future negotiation.
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges… and you can proactively offer Ministry involvement to match the Crows. (+1 to Ministry of Integrity Favorability, +20% to next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Increased Theocracy and Ministry Influence on the Embassy.)

The MoI will focus on the truth, and this is pretty much making them work with the Crows, who are their counterpart.
Also... this is pretty much what they do.

Not to mention this is one of the cheapest concessions we can make for the MoI, and that +1 favor will come in handy later, for the other negotiations down the line....
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on the Embassy Increased)
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on the Embassy Increased)

[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges… and you can proactively offer Ministry involvement to match the Crows. (+1 to Ministry of Integrity Favorability, +20% to next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Increased Theocracy and Ministry Influence on the Embassy.)

[X] Support both with MoI Involvement. (+1 To Polar Theocracy Favorability, +1 To Ministry of Integrity Favorability. Increased Influence of Theocracy and Ministry, lesser WS nomad Dynamic Shift.)
 
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[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on Embassy Increased)
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on Embassy Increased)

I don't think we need to make any big moves right now, and this balances the MoL influence with Polar Theocracy influence. Based purely on numbers we are in a good spot and I think we just need to get MoL up 1 more to really have smooth sailing and we have I think 11 more arcs to get that number. So quite a while. On a more political side it doesn't make sense to make big promises to the one group we haven't really interacted with yet.
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on Embassy Increased)

Limit MOI ability to decide which cases to judge or officially screw with the investigation. Letting them be a judge was good, letting them also pick the battles and prepare the field isn't.

Checkpoints add in a lot of potential friction this early in relations. A bunch of soldiers hanging out with nothing to do in the middle of nowhere feels like a recipe for trouble. The easiest entertainment or thing to work against is each other. Once the value of trade has been established then it makes more sense to tax or use some wealth in order to protect trade. I also don't want to undercut Jaromilla this early into the negotiation.
 
However, I am unsure if the drop in White Plumes favourability is worth it.
Consider also that the Duchess is currently maneuvering the Emerald Seas in a way that seems likely to ally us with the the old ducal clans while pitting us against the central government of the empire. In such a circumstance, them being able to simply strangle our trade route or even embroil us in a border conflict is ... troubling.

Tying this back to the White Plumes: I suspect that for the most part the White Plumes favorability rating is actually a proxy for Cai Shenhua favorability.
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on Embassy Increased)
 
[X] Promise to push for an investigative arm to be created attached to the judiciary here. It would be split much like the judges. (No Favor change, +20% on next roll for Polar Theocracy Favorability. Theocracy influence on Embassy Increased)
 
[X] Support both with MoI Involvement. (+1 To Polar Theocracy Favorability, +1 To Ministry of Integrity Favorability. Increased Influence of Theocracy and Ministry, lesser WS nomad Dynamic Shift.)
 
Even if we don't take up the +1 in the Mol, I think if we want to pass anything major on the cultural side we will want to have at least 2-3 points to be spent with the Mol, and right now we have 0; so be careful
 
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