Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

No we dont.

We own a four thousand square feet warehouse as company HQ and a company with two employees.
There's also some other land, but theres nothing there atm.
Because there's nothing declared on taxes or building permits or fire code records.

Dont overestimate us.
That way lies a lot of scrambling when it comes back to bite us
Yes we do the high level pressure chamber or whatever goes into diamond making, the employees to run it full time to make output larger enough to satisfy industrial applications IE per tonnage level output. The electricity to run the machines etc etc. Molly by all accounts is just making money/diamonds appear out of nowhere. Any accountant that bothered could have money laundering charges brought up with a single phone call, if not outright smuggling charges.
 
Realistically, the vehicle we made for Mab would be more expensive than that (because no iron, custom design, and having to work everything out), if developed by real people. It cost us barely anything. We are an exalt, with a Craft focus. RnD is, if not easy, then not costly at least.
Yes. Its a custom luxury vehicle of bespoke materials; of course its more expensive than an armored Suburban for the State Dept.

However.
Odin is asking for custom military vehicles that his troops can ride into supernatural combat.
They meet a very different, far higher standard.
We are an exalt. With Cyberdevil background, which includes spammable cyberdevil minions. Who have technology 3, which is "trained professional" level. And have human reaction times when put into mobile phones. And access to internet and superhuman ability to process information. TTC a supercomputer, put those in, and you have free skilled man-hourse if we don't want to do it ourselves. If we want to, craft mechanics is our specialty. We roll close to 20 dice at DC 3.

RnD for this is not an issue. At all.
Yes?
You miss the point completely.

And on the subject of nuclear synethesis, here are my calcs on the topic:
[SNIP]
Basically, at 5 or even 10 times acceleration, nuclear transmutation of materials is a fool's errand. Tool Transcending Constructs gives us constructs, not "things happen magically immediately". And the effort, just in terms of profit, would be measly. If you want to profit, make stuff like collector's watches or weapons to sell - we are making weapons for Odin already. Trying the half-brained scheme just hurts me and goes against everything I have been taught.

And yes, Uju, I know that you disagree. Your math still doesn't work, no matter how much you want it to.
I have provided math here as well demonstrating that you are wrong.
Indeed, I remember my exact reply to that quote you just brought up was fairly comprehensive:
1)Electromagnetic separation seems feasible.
The normal constraints of safety, power consumption and heat dissipation dont really apply with Exalted charmtech.

2)101Ru is a stable ruthenium isotope.
You sell that on the open market, use the proceeds to buy natural ruthenium, and extract the roughly one third that's 102Ru.
Then you turn that isotope into 103Ru, which decays via the release of beta radiation into 103Rho.

3)Halflife of 35 days just means dumping the isotopes at the bottom of a large body of water for 5-10 halflives until its done decaying. We have Boiling Sea Mastery, and we live on the shores of a lake. Alternatively, hire the services of a chronomancer to set up a ritual to accelerate the passage of time in a room/safe in Undertown, stuff it in there for a month and lock the door.

4)Rhodium's volatility would only matter if it ever dropped below the price of gold. It hasnt in the last 25 years.
Palladium prices are a decent standin for gold.
And 2006/2007 is apparently a boom market for rhodium.

5) No precious metal dealer I have heard of does assays for isotopic composition, just purity.
If we're feeling particularly paranoid about isotopic purity being an issue, we can buy refined rhodium bars on the market, mix it with ours, resmelt and resell it.

6)We fabbed carbon nanotubes inside our house when we were making Ebon Scales.
We ran five diamond producing machines in an outdoor garage without special cooling to handle all the waste heat. We have TLF.
I think its safe to assume that our charms handle stuff like radiation just fine.

I expect Molly to be paranoid about it, and not to do it at home.
But I dont expect to have any radiation leak outside the fabrication process.

7)Like I said upthread?
You buy natural iridium, extract the isotopic fraction you need and resell the remainder.
Then transmute the isotope.

-We arent likely to be getting any patents or media rights from our Hell.
We have a pressing requirement to be lowkey, which is not improved by legal filings about high profile processes.
I would not bet on any such thing in the mortal world. At least not in the West.

-I believe Ive done the math before here. My estimates would be:
6 siblings x 2 mill: 12 mill
2 parents x 4 mill: 8 mill
Rosie x 3 mill: 3 mill
Dresden : 2 mill
Murphy : 2 mill
Thomas: 2 mill (may substitute with diamonds or precious metals, because he has the connections to launder them)
Tithe 5-7 mill

Expenditure <36 million
Remainder ~34 million

Im aiming at leaving Molly with around 35 million, which should translate to somewhere between Resources 4 and Resources 5.
Not sure how much its going to eventually cost in Resources to raise that Dragons Nest from 0 to 5.
Or to cater for any minions we happen to pickup in Undertown. But I assume it wont be cheap.



Its canon that Molly reminds him of her mother in looks all the time.
If she wasnt so insistent in styling herself opposite, with dyed hair and tattoos and grungy clothing, it would be more than

And tbh I get the impression that Charity intimidated him a little when he was younger, and he's never quite grown out of it.
Canon Molly and her crush have been working against the penalties of his having known her as a kid, having trained her as an apprentice AND her looking very much like Charity. :V
Its been a while, and our access to cash has improved, but the fundamentals still hold true.
Its physically feasible. Not even an alchemy or Exalted Craft requirement.

If we want quick money, either win a lottery, find a golden vein using any random gold ring as a focus for the crown with a question of "where is the largest unclaimed and undiscovered gold vein on the planet that is not father than 10 meters from the surface", or sell stuff we are actually good at. Milk scorpions for their venom with TTC. That's appropriately Infernal, if nothing else. And it goes for 39 million per gallon.
1)Lottery is next year
2lWe do not have the time or business acumen or political connections to mine gold
3)We cannot meet the certification requirements for biomedical products, so no scorpions.
 
Yes we do the high level pressure chamber or whatever goes into diamond making, the employees to run it full time to make output larger enough to satisfy industrial applications IE per tonnage level output. The electricity to run the machines etc etc. Molly by all accounts is just making money/diamonds appear out of nowhere. Any accountant that bothered could have money laundering charges brought up with a single phone call, if not outright smuggling charges.
We are claiming PECVD growth technology as cover, which can be plausible, but the electricity is an issue, yes. Which is whyI have suggested buying a server farm and populating it with demons already.
 
Yes we do the high level pressure chamber or whatever goes into diamond making, the employees to run it full time to make output larger enough to satisfy industrial applications IE per tonnage level output. The electricity to run the machines etc etc. Molly by all accounts is just making money/diamonds appear out of nowhere. Any accountant that bothered could have money laundering charges brought up with a single phone call, if not outright smuggling charges.
Thats not actually true.

Our claimed process is explicitly a low-energy, experimental, proprietary process.
We arent claiming to be producing diamonds via BARS specifically because it would raise that sort of question about energy consumption and industrial safety.

EDIT
To be clear:
How we actually make diamonds is not how we claim to make them on our business application.
 
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Thats not actually true.

Our claimed process is explicitly a low-energy, experimental, proprietary process.
We arent claiming to be producing diamonds via BARS specifically because it would raise that sort of question about energy consumption and industrial safety.
And question, why not just sell the process for a few billion now, and collect a trillion or so in royalties, over the rest of your life.

God if people want the benefits of infinite money just buy Alchemy 5, use a copy of the first Harry Potter book, to learn exactly how to make a Philosopher stone, and sell infinite gold, and elixirs of immortality for a 10 billion a swig.
 
Yes. Its a custom luxury vehicle of bespoke materials; of course its more expensive than an armored Suburban for the State Dept.

However.
Odin is asking for custom military vehicles that his troops can ride into supernatural combat.
They meet a very different, far higher standard
I hate to be the guy, but do you have any background in engineering and any idea about what would go into making a custom vehicle while completely avoiding all iron and everything with iron in it?

Higher standard won't cut it. The cost of developing such a car, including a new and completely cursor engine, battery, hell, the chassis... Yes, it would be tens of millions, if I were to guess.
Yes?
You miss the point completely.
The point is that no, Odin's request won't cost any more than Mab's car did, likely less in fact. Ita matter of dice pools, not resources. If we are spending an AP on this, and doing design work too with cuberdevil assistance, the material cost should be negligible. Scrap from some scrapyard.


Its been a while, and our access to cash has improved, but the fundamentals still hold true.
Its physically feasible. Not even an alchemy or Exalted Craft requirement.
And I explained how an isotopically pure material would fail the very basic density test and tester would perform when checking authenticity. And you didn't address the "it takes too long to be profitable" issue anyway.

We can go over it again, but it won't change the result - you can't profit off this In a month. Maybe I half a year and after a serious investiture.

2lWe do not have the time or business acumen or political connections to mine gold
It would take more time, business and political acumen to profit of nuclear transmutation. I specified "gold vein no one knows about". But OK, let's go one step further. "What is the largest undiscovered gold vein located under the ocean jn international waters not farther than ten meters from the ocean floor?" should be the question. Then RVD there, and use TTC for mining and processing.

It's still metal trading, it's just simpler and more feasible. And quicker.
 
I dont think so.
We know that according to the RPG, Dresden looked for Sandra after Proven Guilty but couldnt find her. Which indicates they already had impressive extraction procedures, given Dresden's talents in investigation and finding lost stuff and people.

But hiding from Dresden is one thing.
Hiding from Winter is quite another . The clock on this started ticking after Maeve was freed and said this in front of Mab and Molly.
At least, thats my opinion.
Winter is likely going to do something, but I don't think they're going to use up anything we need that hasn't already been expended. The clock was ticking for them on this starting when Molly exalted too.

We only need a few crown focuses to get the ball rolling on a trail, at which point we can cut around her. Just a list of places she's been is enough get a set of targets to disassemble whatever Nemesis is up to.

Let Winter catch up to Sandra first, assuming she hasn't been cleaned up already, we don't need her.
If we want quick money, either win a lottery, find a golden vein using any random gold ring as a focus for the crown with a question of "where is the largest unclaimed and undiscovered gold vein on the planet that is not father than 10 meters from the surface", or sell stuff we are actually good at. Milk scorpions for their venom with TTC. That's appropriately Infernal, if nothing else. And it goes for 39 million per gallon.
Another thought here: Ivory.

Synthetic Ivory is a thing, and apparently is so close you need destructive testing to prove it's not natural.

Assuming we can do something similar to what we do with diamonds we could make money by selling legitimate synthetic ivory legally, and use Thomas' white court contacts to scam illegal ivory smugglers with what looks like the real deal for the stuff that's perfect.

Rhino horn can go for a price per pound competitive with gold, and we have plenty of expenses we can spend it on that don't need to put the money anywhere traceable, or can launder with a little work.

It's even fairly ethically clean, since we're draining money that would otherwise go to poachers and the nasty stuff that industry tends to finance.
And question, why not just sell the process for a few billion now, and collect a trillion or so in royalties, over the rest of your life.

God if people want the benefits of infinite money just buy Alchemy 5, use a copy of the first Harry Potter book, to learn exactly how to make a Philosopher stone, and sell infinite gold, and elixirs of immortality for a 10 billion a swig.
Pretty sure you can't use a focus from IC fiction to connect to something that's actually supposed to exist within the story.

Even if your plan worked, you're handwaving a megaton nuke of complications in "just" selling millions in gold and immortality.

On the process stuff; we can't because we don't actually know how to make it work without TTC. Even if we could there would be serious complications to trying.

We don't have to explain our motives IC either if someone asks. Making dumb looking decisions isn't illegal, and we don't have anyone with a material interest in our company to answer to.
 
If we want metal dust of the old idea of sucking it right of the ocean floor. Water teleport around the sea floor, and TTC a massive suction machine that sorts and extracts, all the metal sitting on the ocean bottom. Getting pile upon piles of resources is not a problem, using this method we could easily have the largest hoard of gold, gems and whatnot to ever exist.

Or main limits is time and lack of exalted manpower.

One of the reason we should look into a Bureaucracy charm that blesses and organization we own. Getting a company that moves 6 times faster (essencex2) then buying up some of the old factories, and just out do every other manufacturing center in the world. Just fire up the charm and let the market take care of the rest, while we do more important things.
 
If we want metal dust of the old idea of sucking it right of the ocean floor. Water teleport around the sea floor, and TTC a massive suction machine that sorts and extracts, all the metal sitting on the ocean bottom. Getting pile upon piles of resources is not a problem, using this method we could easily have the largest hoard of gold, gems and whatnot to ever exist.

Or main limits is time and lack of exalted manpower.

One of the reason we should look into a Bureaucracy charm that blesses and organization we own. Getting a company that moves 6 times faster (essencex2) then buying up some of the old factories, and just out do every other manufacturing center in the world. Just fire up the charm and let the market take care of the rest, while we do more important things.
Water flow is an issue with a tool like that. We'd end up blending fish or something.

Homebrew charms are off the table with no sign of when/if they'll be an option, so they aren't really a viable approach on any reasonable time scale.

A huge stock buy that gives us stupid amounts of money in dividends is probably the lowest effort method of making this problem go away long term, which we can't do unless we get an infusion like the lottery.
 
Water flow is an issue with a tool like that. We'd end up blending fish or something.
Not really we would just suck up the stuff on the ground and eject the fish back into the sea, along side all the useless stuff.

Or hell TTC had no limit in potential size, and The Sun is right their. Make a Starlifter and extract a few earth sized asteroids of pure everything, park them in sun orbit and chip off a bit and send them to earth as needed.
 
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And question, why not just sell the process for a few billion now, and collect a trillion or so in royalties, over the rest of your life.

God if people want the benefits of infinite money just buy Alchemy 5, use a copy of the first Harry Potter book, to learn exactly how to make a Philosopher stone, and sell infinite gold, and elixirs of immortality for a 10 billion a swig.
Because we dont want to. Which is not actually illegal.
Or maybe someone is paying us to keep the process off the market. Which is not illegal.
Or maybe we dont trust anyone not to screw us. Or enjoy having a secret.

The key is: None of those are illegal, or require us to explain ourselves.

As for Alchemy 5?
I have significant doubts about the applicability of using a work of fiction written by a muggle as a Crown focus for discovering the workings of a Tier 5/Tier 6 alchemical ritual.

I hate to be the guy, but do you have any background in engineering and any idea about what would go into making a custom vehicle while completely avoiding all iron and everything with iron in it?

Higher standard won't cut it. The cost of developing such a car, including a new and completely cursor engine, battery, hell, the chassis... Yes, it would be tens of millions, if I were to guess.
That doesnt actually matter here.
But I used to be very interested in the development of military platforms, and I have some idea how long and how intricate those get as compared to a civilian automotive program.

We are talking about building Odin a combat vehicle for his Einherjar. Something he cant simply buy on the open market.
Designing this will take more time than it took to design Mab's pimpwagon; they have to meet different environments, with different levels of redundancy.

It wont take as much time as it would take in real life, and thankfully we're only likely to be building in the low or middle two figures of vehicles. At least in this tranche.
But I dont think its reasonable to equate the two of them as requiring the same RnD time.
The point is that no, Odin's request won't cost any more than Mab's car did, likely less in fact. Ita matter of dice pools, not resources. If we are spending an AP on this, and doing design work too with cuberdevil assistance, the material cost should be negligible. Scrap from some scrapyard.
No, Im reasonably sure you're wrong.
This is the B-scale, which is for civilian vehicle armoring by an American company:
There's other, similar scales like the VR-scale(Vehicle Resistance), which is what BMW use for their armored vehicles, but they are roughly equivalent. Building a civilian vehicle to B7 or VR6 levels of protection is very different from armoring for a combat environment.

For reference? This is the NATO STANAG 4569 scale, for military ground vehicles:
STANAG 4569 said:
See how it starts at bullet-resistant to assault rifles, and includes hardening against explosive weapons and artillery shrapnel.
Thats a very different kettle of fish.

And I explained how an isotopically pure material would fail the very basic density test and tester would perform when checking authenticity. And you didn't address the "it takes too long to be profitable" issue anyway.
We can go over it again, but it won't change the result - you can't profit off this In a month. Maybe I half a year and after a serious investiture.
And I pointed out that people will check chemical composition and buy it if it checks out.
Like seriously, people buy smuggled diamonds from conflict zones and stolen military supplies. They buy obviously stolen catalytic converters for the platinum inside, and copper ripped out of people's homes as scrap.

Yet you think they will balk at isotopically pure precious metals?

Not to mention that electromagnetic separation of isotopes, which isnt economical in the real world, works just fine when you are an Exalt with Tool Constructs.
Which applies to separating radioactive and stable isotopes

We've done this dance before. You're just wrong about this.
It would take more time, business and political acumen to profit of nuclear transmutation. I specified "gold vein no one knows about". But OK, let's go one step further. "What is the largest undiscovered gold vein located under the ocean jn international waters not farther than ten meters from the ocean floor?" should be the question. Then RVD there, and use TTC for mining and processing.

It's still metal trading, it's just simpler and more feasible. And quicker.
-We literally have a business manager for fencing fabricated trade goods. Thats never been an issue.
Actually claiming a gold deposit and getting the rights to mine it is a much more involved, higher profile affair.

-You're essentially burning gold as a focus with that broad a question.

-I dont think we can assume there is a positive answer to that question.
We know very little about what deepwater geology is like. Even assuming you are right, I see two immediate problems:
1)RVD as written does not appear to allow you to carry stuff thar isnt personal equipment, so you cant actually bring anything back
2)We dont actually have deepsea mining or processing gear IRL for TC to emulate

I would have suggested manganese nodules as an alternative, but then I checked and discovered how small they are.
 
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Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Jun 9, 2023 at 7:48 PM, finished with 150 posts and 17 votes.

  • [X] Plan Obligations and practicing for family
    -[X] Attend school you have friends at school and you would like the memories of senior year and graduation even if they won't be teaching you anything worthwhile (If neither School nor getting your GED is chosen Molly will systematically skip class)
    -[X] Restoring the Last Station: Restoration efforts have been going well and according to Adam some more of the people down in the tunnels have shown interest in their newfound wealth and comfort (6/10) [+extra AP from potion]
    --[X] Use bonus AP
    -[X] Chariots for the One Eye: As part of her deal to ally against the Will of Kakuri you promised Odin vehicles hit for his warriors, time to show your chops.
    -[X] The Bridges of the Spirit, continue your training with Brother Divsimar not in the ways of the spirit but the mind, the Bridge of Dreams
    -[X] A friend in need. You promised Rosie that you would help and so you will, with problems material and ethereal
    --[X] Talking to the family, you do not like Mrs Wilsom and the feeling is mutual, but as your experience at church yesterday showed you do not have to like someone to turn on the supernatural charm. Maybe you could work something out, or at least explain some of what her daughter is going through
    -[X] The Seeker Sought given that you can teleport now maybe you can find a Medicine Man of the blood to deal with the Naagloshii. Given what you know of Broken Seeker and his... people now perhaps they would be more inclined to help you deal with them. Even if you do not find any takers you can deal with him.
    [X]Plan Lovecraft
    -[X] Attend school: 1AP
    -[X] Masterworks for money: 1AP
    --[X] All that glitters, ye old dream of making gold from lead, now with radiation: 1AP
    -[X] A friend in need. You promised Rosie that you would help and so you will, with problems material and ethereal: 1AP
    --[X] Talking to the family
    -[X] Restoring the Last Station: 1AP + 1 bonus AP
    -[X] The Worst Wingwoman: 1AP
    -[X] The Seeker Sought: 1AP
    [X] Plan: Infernal on the Warpath
    -[X] The Worst Wingwoman: Apparently Sandra had set you up to break the Laws of Magic as part of a plot against Harry and probably dad as well come to that. It's about time you find her and have a talk to her about that
    -[X] Chariots for the One Eye: As part of her deal to ally against the Will of Kakuri you promised Odin vehicles fit for his warriors, time to show your chops.
    -[X] The Bridges of the Spirit, continue your training with Brother Divsimar not in the ways of the spirit but the mind, the Bridge of Dreams
    -[X] Restoring the Last Station: Restoration efforts have been going well and according to Adam some more of the people down in the tunnels have shown interest in their newfound wealth and comfort (6/10) [+extra AP from potion]
    -[X] Dreaming True, Rosie is doing great so far, but she still needs more training before she can get a proper hold of her powers (2/10 progress )
    -[x] Attend school
    [X] P-p-p-powerball!
    -[x] Attend school
    -[X] A Big Score
    --[X] Contrive to purchase a winning lottery ticket in Kansas for the 11/25/2006 Powerball drawing, paying the extra $2 fee for the Powerplay option (randomly applies a 2X, 3X, 4X, 5X, or 10X modifier to our winnings). This is a $64 million jackpot.
    -[x] A friend in need.
    --[X] Dreaming True (2/10 progress) - Using our additional AP gained through abusing super coffee
    -[x] The Worst Wingwoman
    -[x] The Seeker Sought
    -[x] Chariots for the One Eye
    -[x] Contact the Librarians
    [x] Plan Investing in the future
    -[x] Tools Redeemed: Thinking back on that paraphernalia you looted from the Fomori tantalizing insights come to mind... and more immediately relevant it will mean you can finally stop mooching of Harry's equipment. (Gain Alchemy Laboratory Halved XP price for reaching Alchemy 4)
    -[X] A friend in need. You promised Rosie that you would help and so you will, with problems material and ethereal
    --[X] Talking to the family, you do not like Mrs Wilsom and the feeling is mutual, but as your experience at church yesterday showed you do not have to like someone to turn on the supernatural charm. Maybe you could work something out, or at least explain some of what her daughter is going through
    -[x] Blackest Name: In the final ritual to help Arawn you invoked something old and hungry, something that seemed to resonate with the purpose of the ritual, its name writ in a long forgotten tongue. Thanks to Bob you now know it involves the would-be-Draculas of the supernatural world, the Black Court. Maybe Lydia can help
    -[X] Restoring the Last Station: Restoration efforts have been going well and according to Adam some more of the people down in the tunnels have shown interest in their newfound wealth and comfort (6/10) [+extra AP from potion]
    -[x] Cauldron Bubble, your new friends in the Ordo Lebetis could use more help, maybe not as... enthusiastic as the last time, but they are small fish in a very big and scary pond
    --[x] See what's up with Helen, there is something eating away at Helen you are sure of it, something dark and strange, dark and strange is your specialty
    -[X] Chariots for the One Eye: As part of her deal to ally against the Will of Kakuri you promised Odin vehicles hit for his warriors, time to show your chops.
    -[x] Forge an armlet that activates CCC as a permanent basis. [Stunt] A band of solid gold inlaid with diamonds forming the image of a Glorious sunrise.
    [x]Null
 
I don't get the complaining about notoriety with the lottery its anonymous and quite frankly the people who win these things do not all become obscenely famous for long periods of time. Their usually one hit wonders as far as fame go.
 
We are talking about building Odin a combat vehicle for his Einherjar. Something he cant simply buy on the open market.
Designing this will take more time than it took to design Mab's pimpwagon; they have to meet different environments, with different levels of redundancy.
This is a completely unfounded assertion. You can't buy a ironless car on the open market either. We basically had to start from scratch with only the idea of a car as an endpoint in mind. A military vehicle is far easier at least there is a lot of work out there to copy and adapt.

I have an idea of just how hard it is to develop a military vehicle, but at least it has been done before.
 
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I don't get the complaining about notoriety with the lottery its anonymous and quite frankly the people who win these things do not all become obscenely famous for long periods of time. Their usually one hit wonders as far as fame go.
1)The lottery is not anonymous.
Not in many states of the US, and not in Illnois in 2006.

2) You dont need to be obscenely famous for grifters and scammers and even the general public to make your life thoroughly miserable for a buck.
Case in point:
Whittaker wasn't a typical lottery winner either. His net worth at the time of his winnings was in excess of $15 million, owing to his ownership of a successful contracting firm in West Virginia. His claim to want to live "as if nothing had changed" actually seemed plausible. He should have been well equipped for wealth. He was already quite wealthy, after all. By all accounts he was somewhat modest, low profile, generous and good natured. He should have coasted off into the sunset. Yeah. Not exactly.

Whittaker took the all-cash option, $170 million, instead of the annuity option, and took possession of $114 million in cash after $56 million in taxes. After that, things went south.

Whittaker quickly became the subject of a number of financial stalkers, who would lurk at his regular breakfast hideout and accost him with suggestions for how to spend his money. They were unemployed. No, an interview tomorrow morning wasn't good enough. They needed cash NOW. Perhaps they had a sure-fire business plan. Their daughter had cancer. A niece needed dialysis. Needless to say, Whittaker stopped going to his breakfast haunt. Eventually, they began ringing his doorbell. Sometimes in the early morning. Before long he was paying off-duty deputies to protect his family. He was accused of being heartless. Cold. Stingy.

Letters poured in. Children with cancer. Diabetes. MS. You name it. He hired three people to sort the mail. A detective to filter out the false claims and the con men (and women) was retained.

Brenda, the clerk who had sold Whittaker the ticket, was a victim of collateral damage. Whittaker had written her a check for $44,000 and bought her house, but she was by no means a millionaire. Rumors that the state routinely paid the clerk who had sold the ticket 10% of the jackpot winnings hounded her. She was followed home from work. Threatened. Assaulted.

Whittaker's car was twice broken into, by trusted acquaintances who watched him leave large amounts of cash in it. $500,000 and $200,000 were stolen in two separate instances. The thieves spiked Whittaker's drink with prescription drugs in the first instance. The second incident was the handiwork of his granddaughter's friends, who had been probing the girl for details on Whittaker's cash for weeks.

Even Whittaker's good-faith generosity was questioned. When he offered $10,000 to improve the city's water park so that it was more handicap accessible, locals complained that he spent more money at the strip club. (Amusingly this was true).

Whittaker invested quite a bit in his own businesses, tripled the number of people his businesses employed (making him one of the larger employers in the area) and eventually had given away $14 million to charity through a foundation he set up for the purpose. This is, of course, what you are "supposed" to do. Set up a foundation. Be careful about your charity giving. It made no difference in the end.

To top it all off, Whittaker had been accused of ruining a number of marriages. His money made other men look inferior, they said, wherever he went in the small West Virginia town he called home. Resentment grew quickly. And festered. Whittaker paid four settlements related to this sort of claim. Yes, you read that right. Four.

His family and their immediate circle were quickly the victims of odds-defying numbers of overdoses, emergency room visits and even fatalities. His granddaughter, the eighteen year old "Brandi" (who Whittaker had been giving a $2100.00 per week allowance) was found dead after having been missing for several weeks. Her death was, apparently, from a drug overdose, but Whittaker suspected foul play. Her body had been wrapped in a tarp and hidden behind a rusted-out van. Her seventeen year old boyfriend had expired three months earlier in Whittaker's vacation house, also from an overdose. Some of his friends had robbed the house after his overdose, stepping over his body to make their escape and then returning for more before stepping over his body again to leave. His parents sued for wrongful death claiming that Whittaker's loose purse strings contributed to their son's death. Amazingly, juries are prone to award damages in cases such as these. Whittaker settled. Again.

Even before the deaths, the local and state police had taken a special interest in Whittaker after his new-found fame. He was arrested for minor and less minor offenses many times after his winnings, despite having had a nearly spotless record before the award. Whittaker's high profile couldn't have helped him much in this regard.

In 18 months Whittaker had been cited for over 250 violations ranging from broken tail lights on every one of his five new cars, to improper display of renewal stickers. A lawsuit charging various police organizations with harassment went nowhere and Whittaker was hit with court costs instead.

Whittaker's wife filed for divorce, and in the process froze a number of his assets and the accounts of his operating companies. Caesars in Atlantic City sued him for $1.5 million to cover bounced checks, caused by the asset freeze.

Today Whittaker is badly in debt, and bankruptcy looms large in his future.

This is a completely unfounded assertion. You can't buy a ironless car on the open market either. We basically had to start from scratch with only the idea of a car as an endpoint in mind. A military vehicle is far easier at least there is a lot of work out there to copy and adapt.

I have an idea of just how hard it is to develop a military vehicle, but at least it has been done before.
Respectfully, you are mistaken.

1)You can buy an ironless car on the open market.
The Alfa Romeo 4c is a two-seat Italian sports car with a carbon fiber body, aluminium subframe and four-cylinder turbocharged aluminium engine. Unveilled in 2013. It went for around $70k
en.m.wikipedia.org

Alfa Romeo 4C - Wikipedia


And Im not even going into specialized hotrods like the F1 cars.
The idea of building an automobile without steel for weight or aesthetics reasons isnt new; we were building tank engines out of aluminium in WW2.


2)The chassis of the vehicle?
We use steel commonly because its cheap and easy to work with, not because alternatives dont exist. A lot of American trucks have begun to use aluminium bodies on a steel frame to reduce weight.

Aluminium and titanium and carbon composites would, and did, replace steel just fine. In real life.
Its just that in many use cases it isnt necessary.

What was spectacular about our car wasnt the material science of the body.
It was the powertrain and the electrical/electronics systems inside that power and guide it.
We built an electric luxury car 17 years before Rolls Royce et al, and we did it in a garage to Exalted standards.


3)When we need to build a car, even if the car designs arent publicly available or on the Dark Web, its entirely possible to rent a car in its category, put it through a Tool Constructs scanner and use that as a starting point.

Military vehicle designs otoh tend to be classified. No such hope.
You underestimate the effort involved.
In my opinion.
 
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You are mistaken.

1)You can buy an ironless car on the open market.
The Alfa Romeo 4c is a two-seat Italian sports car with a carbon fiber body, aluminium subframe and four-cylinder turbocharged aluminium engine. Unveilled in 2013. It went for around $70k
Well that was 7 years after this quest takes place.
 
1)The lottery is not anonymous.
Not in many states of the US, and not in Illnois in 2006.

2) You dont need to be obscenely famous for grifters and scammers and even the general public to make your life thoroughly miserable for a buck.
Case in point:
Whittaker wasn't a typical lottery winner either. His net worth at the time of his winnings was in excess of $15 million, owing to his ownership of a successful contracting firm in West Virginia. His claim to want to live "as if nothing had changed" actually seemed plausible. He should have been well equipped for wealth. He was already quite wealthy, after all. By all accounts he was somewhat modest, low profile, generous and good natured. He should have coasted off into the sunset. Yeah. Not exactly.

Whittaker took the all-cash option, $170 million, instead of the annuity option, and took possession of $114 million in cash after $56 million in taxes. After that, things went south.

Whittaker quickly became the subject of a number of financial stalkers, who would lurk at his regular breakfast hideout and accost him with suggestions for how to spend his money. They were unemployed. No, an interview tomorrow morning wasn't good enough. They needed cash NOW. Perhaps they had a sure-fire business plan. Their daughter had cancer. A niece needed dialysis. Needless to say, Whittaker stopped going to his breakfast haunt. Eventually, they began ringing his doorbell. Sometimes in the early morning. Before long he was paying off-duty deputies to protect his family. He was accused of being heartless. Cold. Stingy.

Letters poured in. Children with cancer. Diabetes. MS. You name it. He hired three people to sort the mail. A detective to filter out the false claims and the con men (and women) was retained.

Brenda, the clerk who had sold Whittaker the ticket, was a victim of collateral damage. Whittaker had written her a check for $44,000 and bought her house, but she was by no means a millionaire. Rumors that the state routinely paid the clerk who had sold the ticket 10% of the jackpot winnings hounded her. She was followed home from work. Threatened. Assaulted.

Whittaker's car was twice broken into, by trusted acquaintances who watched him leave large amounts of cash in it. $500,000 and $200,000 were stolen in two separate instances. The thieves spiked Whittaker's drink with prescription drugs in the first instance. The second incident was the handiwork of his granddaughter's friends, who had been probing the girl for details on Whittaker's cash for weeks.

Even Whittaker's good-faith generosity was questioned. When he offered $10,000 to improve the city's water park so that it was more handicap accessible, locals complained that he spent more money at the strip club. (Amusingly this was true).

Whittaker invested quite a bit in his own businesses, tripled the number of people his businesses employed (making him one of the larger employers in the area) and eventually had given away $14 million to charity through a foundation he set up for the purpose. This is, of course, what you are "supposed" to do. Set up a foundation. Be careful about your charity giving. It made no difference in the end.

To top it all off, Whittaker had been accused of ruining a number of marriages. His money made other men look inferior, they said, wherever he went in the small West Virginia town he called home. Resentment grew quickly. And festered. Whittaker paid four settlements related to this sort of claim. Yes, you read that right. Four.

His family and their immediate circle were quickly the victims of odds-defying numbers of overdoses, emergency room visits and even fatalities. His granddaughter, the eighteen year old "Brandi" (who Whittaker had been giving a $2100.00 per week allowance) was found dead after having been missing for several weeks. Her death was, apparently, from a drug overdose, but Whittaker suspected foul play. Her body had been wrapped in a tarp and hidden behind a rusted-out van. Her seventeen year old boyfriend had expired three months earlier in Whittaker's vacation house, also from an overdose. Some of his friends had robbed the house after his overdose, stepping over his body to make their escape and then returning for more before stepping over his body again to leave. His parents sued for wrongful death claiming that Whittaker's loose purse strings contributed to their son's death. Amazingly, juries are prone to award damages in cases such as these. Whittaker settled. Again.

Even before the deaths, the local and state police had taken a special interest in Whittaker after his new-found fame. He was arrested for minor and less minor offenses many times after his winnings, despite having had a nearly spotless record before the award. Whittaker's high profile couldn't have helped him much in this regard.

In 18 months Whittaker had been cited for over 250 violations ranging from broken tail lights on every one of his five new cars, to improper display of renewal stickers. A lawsuit charging various police organizations with harassment went nowhere and Whittaker was hit with court costs instead.

Whittaker's wife filed for divorce, and in the process froze a number of his assets and the accounts of his operating companies. Caesars in Atlantic City sued him for $1.5 million to cover bounced checks, caused by the asset freeze.

Today Whittaker is badly in debt, and bankruptcy looms large in his future.


Respectfully, you are mistaken.

1)You can buy an ironless car on the open market.
The Alfa Romeo 4c is a two-seat Italian sports car with a carbon fiber body, aluminium subframe and four-cylinder turbocharged aluminium engine. Unveilled in 2013. It went for around $70k
en.m.wikipedia.org

Alfa Romeo 4C - Wikipedia


And Im not even going into specialized hotrods like the F1 cars.
The idea of building an automobile without steel for weight or aesthetics reasons isnt new; we were building tank engines out of aluminium in WW2.


2)The chassis of the vehicle?
We use steel commonly because its cheap and easy to work with, not because alternatives dont exist. A lot of American trucks have begun to use aluminium bodies on a steel frame to reduce weight.

Aluminium and titanium and carbon composites would, and did, replace steel just fine. In real life.
Its just that in many use cases it isnt necessary.

What was spectacular about our car wasnt the material science of the body.
It was the powertrain and the electrical/electronics systems inside that power and guide it.
We built an electric luxury car 17 years before Rolls Royce et al, and we did it in a garage to Exalted standards.


3)When we need to build a car, even if the car designs arent publicly available or on the Dark Web, its entirely possible to rent a car in its category, put it through a Tool Constructs scanner and use that as a starting point.

Military vehicle designs otoh tend to be classified. No such hope.
You underestimate the effort involved.
In my opinion.
I thought we were doing the anonymous one anonymousish. Also if I'm being honest basically none of these are major problems for us since for one I doubt dp will get too much into it except as a story point once or twice and two we're exalted we can solve these problems fairly quickly. Also personally I don't care much if we're somewhat famous or not.
 
Not to mention that electromagnetic separation of isotopes, which isnt economical in the real world, works just fine when you are an Exalt with Tool Constructs.
Which applies to separating radioactive and stable isotopes
He's got a point about the time requirements though; even with acceleration the process of transmuting gold should still be time intensive.

If you look at my other post on this topic there's a faster alternative.

Synthetic ivory is a thing, and modern tech can make it very hard to tell from the real deal.

With TTC doing something similar to what we've got with diamonds seems viable, and forms of ivory like rhino horn have competitive prices with gold on the black market.

Making those connections is a complication, but Thomas can handle that one way or the other.

we can launder the money by buying property under one corporate entity and renting it from ourselves under another somewhere that doesn't keep good records.

The taxes for owning foreign rental properties are actually pretty straightforward from this side, and the feds don't care to police rental law in other countries, so it's actually pretty ideal for this.

Throughput is limited by plausible rent across all of our properties, but making millions in short bursts of grey market activity then slowly draining it into our legal income is probably safer on all ends of transaction.

Really this would be a good trick for laundering any dirty money we happen to generate going forward.

Another potentially lucrative option is Caterpillar Fungus. As noted in the economics section of that article the stuff is stupid expensive. Three times it's weight in gold expensive at times, and competitive outside of that. According to this it becomes possible to grow the stuff on artificial substrates at industrial levels sometime a decade or so out from the in quest date.

It's a little unusual, but if we could get a sample and TTC a growth tank for the stuff we wouldn't need much volume to make a lot of money.
Selling it is legal too, so we could just do it via a new company and move on.


It's really too bad we don't have better government connections. We could probably make stupid amounts of money on Californium if we weren't arrested for having it in the first place.
 
2) You dont need to be obscenely famous for grifters and scammers and even the general public to make your life thoroughly miserable for a buck.
Case in point:
It should be noted that we are obscenly stubborn, can intimidate most mortals with a single look and have an electronic assistant who is absolutly willing and capable to shred all mail and block all calls that have a 40% or higher chance of being a scam.
And people trying to break into our car or house, well those won't ever try again.

Last but not least, I don't see things messing up our family, not with Michael (who withstood the temptation of almost literally infinite power from Uriel's grace), or Charity, who while not a saint is still a very down-to-earth and similarly stubborn person.

We are not an easy target for grifters, or the other issues. In fact we are one of the hardest possible targets outside of those supernaturals who only interact with reality in limited ways.
 
It should be noted that we are obscenly stubborn, can intimidate most mortals with a single look and have an electronic assistant who is absolutly willing and capable to shred all mail and block all calls that have a 40% or higher chance of being a scam.
And people trying to break into our car or house, well those won't ever try again.

Last but not least, I don't see things messing up our family, not with Michael (who withstood the temptation of almost literally infinite power from Uriel's grace), or Charity, who while not a saint is still a very down-to-earth and similarly stubborn person.

We are not an easy target for grifters, or the other issues. In fact we are one of the hardest possible targets outside of those supernaturals who only interact with reality in limited ways.
Being a hard target doesn't make getting shot at pleasant though.

Is it legal for a corporate entity to buy a ticket?

Getting a faceless cutout company to collect the winnings and then funnel the money to us sounds way better than trying this directly.

Edit:

Actually you can. We don't need to rely on a lottery not leaking, just buy the ticket via a trust or LLC held by a cutout that we own.

Some of them are still sketchy in that they require the trustees to be disclosed, but Maine and Nebraska at least don't.

You just need to be a "legal entity" to claim the prize.
 
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Enchanting path is probably the easiest way to gain money anyway. Turn out a dozen devices that absorbs raw carbon from the air and transform it into perfect 1 atom graphene sheets. He'll make it get rid of all the other air pollutants to while we are at it, cities will pay us to put one up.
 
Enchanting path is probably the easiest way to gain money anyway. Turn out a dozen devices that absorbs raw carbon from the air and transform it into perfect 1 atom graphene sheets. He'll make it get rid of all the other air pollutants to while we are at it, cities will pay us to put one up.
Enchanting has the problem of being technically mortal magic. If very high end mortal magic with our skills which means whenever we try and change the world using it we also have to world build why others aren't already doing that.
 
He's got a point about the time requirements though; even with acceleration the process of transmuting gold should still be time intensive.

If you look at my other post on this topic there's a faster alternative.

Synthetic ivory is a thing, and modern tech can make it very hard to tell from the real deal.

With TTC doing something similar to what we've got with diamonds seems viable, and forms of ivory like rhino horn have competitive prices with gold on the black market.

Making those connections is a complication, but Thomas can handle that one way or the other.

we can launder the money by buying property under one corporate entity and renting it from ourselves under another somewhere that doesn't keep good records.

The taxes for owning foreign rental properties are actually pretty straightforward from this side, and the feds don't care to police rental law in other countries, so it's actually pretty ideal for this.

Throughput is limited by plausible rent across all of our properties, but making millions in short bursts of grey market activity then slowly draining it into our legal income is probably safer on all ends of transaction.

Really this would be a good trick for laundering any dirty money we happen to generate going forward.

Another potentially lucrative option is Caterpillar Fungus. As noted in the economics section of that article the stuff is stupid expensive. Three times it's weight in gold expensive at times, and competitive outside of that. According to this it becomes possible to grow the stuff on artificial substrates at industrial levels sometime a decade or so out from the in quest date.

It's a little unusual, but if we could get a sample and TTC a growth tank for the stuff we wouldn't need much volume to make a lot of money.
Selling it is legal too, so we could just do it via a new company and move on.


It's really too bad we don't have better government connections. We could probably make stupid amounts of money on Californium if we weren't arrested for having it in the first place.
how is this simpler than just winning the lottery in a month or so?
 
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