Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Thats a homebrew Charm. There are no official Autochthon Primordial Charms. The closest would be Alchemical ones, but those are their own thing.
As for time travel and resurrection, basically yes.
Time travel was forbidden via oaths the Primordials were forced to do so they can't undo their defeat. The rest of Creation also complies so no one there can do it either. It's never really explained how that works. Assume reality rewriting ala Salinan Working.
Resurrection was sort-of possible but always failed to fulfill the Solars criteria.
That being the same Hun and Po soul along with the attached Exaltation.
They had all kinds of varieties but never managed to get the dead Exalt back (because the Exaltation flew off).
For example capturing the Hun (or Po, not sure) soul and putting into a cloned body along with a memory download. For all intents and purposes, it was the same person.
Except metaphysically.
Could be that Dresden Files resurrection is comparable.
There is also that reality got broken rather hard. The last time that happened was the Time of Cascading Years.
But that only created a fuckton of parallel realities with different rates of time progression that got repaired.
Which was a factor for the Usurpation. The Sidereals were kinda fed up with the Solars bullshit.
Sorry. Found the canon quote (Compass of Celestial Directions, vol. 6, page 83):
So, yeah. That's a thing.
Technically, everything we have seen so far is canon-compliant with us being within the Time of Cascading Years. It requires some creative stretching (what with Infernal Mutation of our exaltation), but might still be possible, if you squint.
If I recall correctly, even bringing back mortals didn't quite work.
I disagree. Throwing around sunlight at celestial level is holy. Below that, you could have terrestrial holy fire or holy water or holy whatever element as things under the sun.
Fire isn't the UCS
That's interesting. My crackpot theory would be that they might get away with it using internal only powers because they're technically just different states of being a living human. Externals are still magic though, so they'd probably get squished.
Then again vamps get nerfs to similar internal abilities when they try them in those cases so
I don't think that's exactly how it worked.
Linear time and causality are things the primordials built into Creation as a weapon and defense against the Wyld. They didn't want to be subsumed by the "never was" bullshit that happened to things in the primordial chaos occasionally and to absolutely screw everything other than themselves to make crushing Rakasha easier.
Which wouldn't work if time allowed anyone to go backwards ever.
This age is very different, but in the age of legends you had to fight the fundamental functions of time from the very start.
In part on the framework presented.
And in part on the Thousand Hells sourcebook that we are supposed to refer to in the background.
I think you are misinterpreting that.
Could be wrong, but thats my impression.
Molly in the short story was so new that Mab was literally babysitting her on what would be a routine fetch quest.
She didn't even realize how her own Mantle worked, leading to the whole regrettable episode with Carlos.
Its entirely possible, likely even, there were no other options at the time; Mab seemed to think so at least.
But Molly actually hadn't looked before, and only took a quick look this time.
We're working with a very limited snapshot impression from a noob.
Fair enough.
No, you need them all.
The only hard qualifications for an Exaltation is the potential for greatness.
Not sanity, or reason, or goodwill towards mankind.
One nihilistic Celestial can buy the charms to get into a nation's nuclear forces and trigger a nuclear exchange from chargen. Or to pull off the Denarian mass plague plan from Death Rites by home brewing his own plague in the basement. Or to trigger the collapse of governments.
I happen to be in agreement with @BronzeTongue that you are vastly underestimating the downsides of disseminating several hundred autonomous godkiller constructs across the globe more or less randomly.
You might want to stop and consider why the guardians of the Black Vault thought it was only worth risking as an alternative to apocalypse. And the Dresdenverse has its problems, but its not looking at apocalypse yet, despite the efforts of certain groups to bring it about.
In theory, an Exalt can be stopped by another Exalt. In theory.
In practice, other Exalts have their own shit going on and have limited attention and resources to watch each other. Furthermore, there is no guarantee that an Exalt will be stopped before pulling off what they intend to do.
If an American Exalt quietly spends the next six months brewing race-specific hyper-ebola in a cave in the Appalachians and then disseminates it across Asia because he'd been listening to white supremacist podcasts about the Yellow Threat, it is of scant comfort that you kill or capture him after he's done so; events are already in motion.
If an Exalt summons a bunch of Outsiders across the Gates from his basement and goes after Demonreach, you get no warning beforehand.
Theres any number of ways one Exalt, or a small group of them, could irretrievable fuck over the Dresdenverse setting with only their organic resources.
And you dont fix dead.
^^^
Forget the free will part.
One Exalt from a Third World country seeing major changes from climate change is going to have very little sympathy for a First World country complaining about fuel price increases and being unable to go on travel vacations, which an Exalt from the First World might sympathize with.
Never mind historical national and ethnic grudges.
And its worth recalling that, assuming anything like even distribution, most of those Exaltations are going to the Third World, where more than two thirds of the world lives.
And where stuff like active conflicts and opportunities to demonstrate heroism are far more common.
Of the world's 6.6 billion in 2006, Africa's roughly a billion, Asia is roughly 4 billion, and South America is around 400 million, and thats not counting the rest of Latin America.
The math seems clear.
The evidence of the real world suggests otherwise.
The US ran political cover for the genocidal Khmer Rouge internationally because they saw advantage in it. Elements of the Trump US administration were willing to let Covid go on because they thought it would hurt their internal political enemies. The Reagan administration ignored HIV's impact it was believed to be a gay disease.
There is always a faction of humanity who will see short term gain in the misfortune of others, or who will see ongoing harm as an opportunity to hurt [Insert Outgroup Here]. A minority, but a significant minority.
And even more who will see it as a political exercise to gain advantage against their foes and rivals.
Some of those WILL get randomly allocated Exaltations.
And while power in the real world is usually limited by the fact that you have to get social buy-in?
Exalts come as their own powers, and can make their own societies.
Furthermore, Exalts are not automatically allies. Or necessarily think things should improve for everyone, instead of just changing their personal situation or that of their in-group.
Its entirely feasible for a bunch of Exalts to hook up with the Black Court, or the Red Court, either as allies, or staging a takeover from the incumbents. I am pretty sure that there's at least one mention in ExWoD of an Abyssal taking over a Kindred Court, for example, and becoming the Prince of a major city.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Just more powerful.
And we've not even discussed the potential implications of an Exalt selling its soul for power to a Yama King or a Fallen, an Old One or a Walker and becoming True Anathema.
Denarian Plus Ultra.
Its not like they aren't already looking; Emma-O already tried.
Like @OctarineShrike points out, Fate/Zero where Saber in the black suit shows up first only gets its first release in November 22nd 2006.
Not really an IC issue.
Dont quote me, but I think DakkaMania is right.
I certainly seem to recall that the Primordials and the Exalted Host used time weapons during the War.
And of course, going to Malfeas or summoning demons from it requires time travel, since it always takes five days to cross the deserts of Cecelyne.
- Location
- At Home
Sliver instead of Silver. Once in the threadmark, once in the title, and once in the actual text.
Everything else will either veer very quickly into the realm of real-life politics or personal philosophy, which isn't productive to discuss, but this one I'll address.
Not tried. Trying. Has likely redoubled his efforts after our interaction with his forces. Odin is looking too, and has leads already. If other exaltations exist in the setting, and all signs point to yes, they will be found. And the ones found first will be, most likely, infernal and abyssal ones. Whether the Black Vault exists or not (I think it's very likely that it does), the chances that ours is the only Infernal one buried under Yomi Wan deep in the NeverNever are slim. And if we don't get them, others will.
- Location
- Germany
The most likely outcome of that is again random humans Exalting though.
You can't really control the process, you never could.
The Realm, with all its power and the backing of a good portion of elder Sidereals never could predict who would Exalt, or where it would happen.
They could only react by hunting down the Exalt as fast as possible.
Any power of this day and age is propably less than the Realm with a major part of Yu-Shan behind it.
The Thousand Hells don't have meaningful living mortal populations that I can see any reference to.
And the framework has the various things as options, you don't have to take even the free ones.
Looking =/=Found =/=Unlock.
Its not like this shard is new: Usum's shard was explicitly found centuries if not thousands of years ago, passed through the hands of the Hell of Lanka before ending up in Emma-O's/Kakuri's paws on its way to Winter.
In all that time, no-one has found a second one.
Its entirely possible there is just one Infernal shard on this planet, or maybe a small number.
And the rest are elsewhere. In a different Creation, or in the treasure vault of a Dragon/, or in Uriel's office, or the White God's vault.
Thats just a matter of QM fiat.
The population is supposed to predate this Creation.
Somehow.
They speak to not taking mutually contradictory options.
And while I can see you taking an empty Hell?
I cannot see how its legal to take a Hell that is majority superhuman or devil.
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Neither the Primordials nor the Primordial War-era Exalted Host couldn't predict it.
The First Age Solar Deliberative couldn't. The Shogunate couldn't. The Bronze Faction couldn't. The Yozi couldn't.
The idea that we can just isn't credible.
There's maybe one entity we are aware of who might be able to pull that bullshit off in this setting.
That's Uriel's boss.
And he has no feats, its just implied.
Mab managed well enough. I mean, if you know the criteria for the exaltation, and it's not hard to guess at some of them, repeating how Molly exalted with suitable candidates, even consenting ones (with memory blocks in place) is absolutely doable.
And in-story the plan Wan Kuei had for capturing the exaltation and retargeting it to a selected host wasn't considered stupid or impossible. And that was done on short notice, with little prep and small amount of resources, without access to significant resources or Ancient Sorcery, and against a bonded exaltation. The "still inside black jade container" exaltations are significantly easier to contain and direct.
Also, citation needed. Nothing in ExvsWoD books indicates that. I have also looked through the 1000 hells book.
Here is says that populations of hells differ, and there are hells that are demon cities. Not human cities.
In Yomi Wan collectively souls of sinners are the largest part of the population. Note that this is explicitly souls of sinners, not native living human population, as described by the ExvsWoD kingdom building section in the relevant trait.
Populations of particular hell can differ from 1 to "uncounted", presumably as a measure of large numbers.
The descriptions of particular hells are not very useful, as their "denizens" sections concern demons, not humans, but I can find no indications of native human populations in most of the hells. As an example, here's Lanka's Denizens section:
Essentially it's nearly raksha-only population.
There's also Hell of Being Skinned Alive:
If we look further, on page 69 (that's "storytelling in Yomi" part of the book that deals with how to use Yomi Wan in storytelling, how the setting works in generalities), there's a section called "denizens of hell". There are three categories there "Tortured Souls", "Demon Servitors", and "Akuma". There's not "native human population" or equivalent section that I can find. The "tortured souls" section does contain the following:
The tortured souls (i.e. souls of sinners condemned to hell, this is spelled explicitely in this section with " remember that the souls trapped in the hells are not poor victims being tortured for the joy of it. Only P'os with heavy crimes dragging them down them fall so far as the Thousand Hells. ") are the bulk population of "any hell the characters are likely to visit". The key part here is "are likely to visit". It's a statistical valuation, not a physical law.
The following is from "creating your own hell" section (page 77):
No mention of native humans at all.
I wasn't able to find any actual mention of native human populations being a thing in Yomi Wan. Tormented nameless souls, yes, absolutely. Native breeding human populations with their own cultures? Not at all.
I should point out that there are two different Etiquette plans being voted for.
So, to change the topic from a very contentious debate about the merits of flipping the metaphysical board and gambling it all on the ultimately good nature of humanity, let's move onto a different, but probably no less provocative topic. That is, using various means, including our Crown, to lower XP costs and obtain other useful things.
1) We have a photo of a rune caster unnamed valkirie, several akuma (excluding the named and greater akuma as they are more valuable), and fomori. We can use them as foci to gain knowledge that should decrease the costs of Inner Devils Unleashed, and make the procedure safer. Use the valkyrie to learn how mortals are elevated to valkyrie-hood. Use akuma to learn how (by which mechanism) Yama kings grant power to their servants. Use fomori for two questions. How can the risks of the fomorization be minimized, and how can the process be controlled / directed towards certain desired outcomes. The total sum effect should be cheaper Inner Devils charm, and a safer procedure.
2) We know that Alchemy as we do it is affected by the position of at least the sun, and likely also the moon and the stars. We have a coordinate system supplied by our exaltation for stellar navigation, which probably has actual objective mystically significant basis (like, if we remember the Bridge to Nowhere, Autochton invented the concept of direction, so the coordinate system he built into exaltations probably is the best one). So, it would be prudent to learn some astrology. We have a number of foci for that: buy a star atlas, and use it to see which stars (or, broader, stellar bodies) are the most mystically important. Use a scientific paper talking about an exoplanet being discovered to find which planets (or where they are) are the most mystically important. Use a newspaper horoscope or a textbook on astrology to identify top ten most correct atrological systems. Then spend an AP to work with Bob and reconstruct the actual exalted-level astrology. We are not Sidereals, yes, but astrology as a study of how stellar objects affect magic should be reconstructible and damn useful. This might help with enchantment, alchemy, possibly some other paths.
3) After we do an exorcism ritual, use the scene to find "records of other rituals as old or older than this one". Ancient sorcery costs 10 XP per pop, and we can't get more than one spell per arc. Any record we find should knock the cost down. And would probably be useful in general in finding old secrets
4) We have invested in Cyberdevil background, and they have been useful, but we haven't actually been using them that much strategically. We use them as saboteurs, spies, yes, and personal assistants, but they can be more. Right now they roll 5 dice for Technology and Computers. We know that they adapt to what piece of technology they are placed in. We know (based on our resource background) that backgrounds can be obtained via in-story effort, rather than XP spending (in fact, I keep maintaining that this is how they should be obtained, and just buying them is not as interesting). So. Two ways to go. First, buy a dedicated server farm for our cyberdevils. A proper supercomputer setup. Second use two of our cyberdevils as foci to learn who the greatest machine god is, and where to find them. Yes, I want to find Autochton. if only because modern alchemicals are cool.
1) We have a photo of a rune caster unnamed valkirie, several akuma (excluding the named and greater akuma as they are more valuable), and fomori. We can use them as foci to gain knowledge that should decrease the costs of Inner Devils Unleashed, and make the procedure safer. Use the valkyrie to learn how mortals are elevated to valkyrie-hood. Use akuma to learn how (by which mechanism) Yama kings grant power to their servants. Use fomori for two questions. How can the risks of the fomorization be minimized, and how can the process be controlled / directed towards certain desired outcomes. The total sum effect should be cheaper Inner Devils charm, and a safer procedure.
2) We know that Alchemy as we do it is affected by the position of at least the sun, and likely also the moon and the stars. We have a coordinate system supplied by our exaltation for stellar navigation, which probably has actual objective mystically significant basis (like, if we remember the Bridge to Nowhere, Autochton invented the concept of direction, so the coordinate system he built into exaltations probably is the best one). So, it would be prudent to learn some astrology. We have a number of foci for that: buy a star atlas, and use it to see which stars (or, broader, stellar bodies) are the most mystically important. Use a scientific paper talking about an exoplanet being discovered to find which planets (or where they are) are the most mystically important. Use a newspaper horoscope or a textbook on astrology to identify top ten most correct atrological systems. Then spend an AP to work with Bob and reconstruct the actual exalted-level astrology. We are not Sidereals, yes, but astrology as a study of how stellar objects affect magic should be reconstructible and damn useful. This might help with enchantment, alchemy, possibly some other paths.
3) After we do an exorcism ritual, use the scene to find "records of other rituals as old or older than this one". Ancient sorcery costs 10 XP per pop, and we can't get more than one spell per arc. Any record we find should knock the cost down. And would probably be useful in general in finding old secrets
4) We have invested in Cyberdevil background, and they have been useful, but we haven't actually been using them that much strategically. We use them as saboteurs, spies, yes, and personal assistants, but they can be more. Right now they roll 5 dice for Technology and Computers. We know that they adapt to what piece of technology they are placed in. We know (based on our resource background) that backgrounds can be obtained via in-story effort, rather than XP spending (in fact, I keep maintaining that this is how they should be obtained, and just buying them is not as interesting). So. Two ways to go. First, buy a dedicated server farm for our cyberdevils. A proper supercomputer setup. Second use two of our cyberdevils as foci to learn who the greatest machine god is, and where to find them. Yes, I want to find Autochton. if only because modern alchemicals are cool.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I don't really see how the first proposal could help us, given the differing nature of those beings and our own power. Option 2 sounds like it could be potentially useful, option 3 would be interesting though I'm doubtful about how helpful it could be, and option 4 is definitely something I would support doing, not so much to find Autocthon, but rather to make better use of our Cyber-Devils.
OK, Pendragon it is.
So, hide that we're a woman, make sure nobody sees our sword, and be an awful *father* to our son?
Well, we have one out of three right now, I'm sure we can find a way to get the others.
Previous experience demonstrated that learning things or achieving feats related to charm functions gives XP discount. When we godforged Bane, we got a -2 XP discount on Wondercrafting charm. So, by learning secrets of how to turn people into divinity, into fomori, of how to grant them power, we might get a discount on Inner Devils Fomori -making charm.
Arc 7 Post 20: The Princess and the Queen
The Princess and the Queen
31th of October 2006 A.D.
This isn't a place for fancy folk, this isn't a place for fancy cars, but Mac's a bit unusual, enough so that no one really objects to a silvery car quite unlike any other car sliding behind Black Rider. Face set in an expression of calm collected focus you doubt any of the people passing by, with hurried step though they know not why, can tell that you are not free of worry. After all it's been a long time since Bones drove last and by his own admission it was a hearse. The car slides into place, the ghoul gets up and with a 'good luck boss' he books it out of here. Any of the younger Jade Dogs might have been tempted to stick around, ask if they could help, but the old hands know when something is above their pay grade and the very name 'Mab' was enough to get the point across.
As you push the door open you see her. Looked at piece by piece she should not be that extraordinary, beautiful yes as much as when you had last seen her in the dark halls of the museum, a being incarnate of ice perfect in every line every feature, filled within by a fire that elevates her above perfection. Another time in some other place you might have tripped over your tongue to offer a gift to such a being wondrous fair, but then you see those jade green eyes widen even so slightly as though your entrance, your appearance, something had caught her by surprised and with surprise comes the vision of perfection wavers leaving behind a presence still regal beyond words, but one that leaves enough to think, to speak without haste, the risk of saying something you had not meant to. Is that an iced tea in her hand? Seems kind of redundant.
"Hello," you say with the kind of smile one gives to a new teacher on the first day or the parent of someone you do not really know what well, the words brashly mortal... no more like brashly American. We don't have queens 'round here kind of thing.
She laughs behind her hand, ladylike, though far from coy. All at once you feel absurd like a sic year old balancing on stolen heels.
"Good day Miss Carpenter, I am glad to see you made it." Coming from anyone else this might have sounded like stock pleasantry or at most a compliment on how punctual one has been. From her it's more like she's glad yo see you survived until Halloween, which given the things you have been doing in the intern... fair enough you guess.
One can afford a sheepish smile, gracefully sheepish, the kind of thing you would not have even conceived of once yet which now comes out as though you had done this stuff all your life. All the uncertainty, the sense that you are a child or a fraud you lock it in a box and throw the box into the ocean. Mab does not seem to notice... no, you are sure, does not notice.
As you turn your head you realize the colors dancing though the air like reflections of the aurora borealis are the Queen of Winter's aura reaching all the way to the table in the corner to the door. Without the wardline they might even spill out into the street
Daunting as that may be the colors tell a tale. Among the blue grey of winter, the threat of imperishable silver that marks a queen sure as a crown upon her head you see vivid heart's red, pathos paired with the pulsing yellow like falling leaves, fear, but not the immediate kind that would mix with the red, instead it rises like smoke to play among the rafters, a distant all pervasive dread. One might almost call it existential.
"I offer a gift to mark this occasion that it might leave both of us better than we left off," you motion to the car, the one without a demon in it. On top of being a faux pas you would not trust Real-Life Jadis here to take care of one of them properly. Where before there had been only the spark off a silver ring there now was in her hands a silver flute, a tiny thing sized for a child's fingers.
"Sometimes the best sanctuary against the night is to bury one's self under the snow 'till morning comes."
From the way it weighs in the hand you know it would not work for you, it would not work for anyone with power but in the hands of a child in peril it would erect a ward around them turning aside first the gaze of any hunters. A gift to match the car or a peace offering for what happened last summer you wonder. Maybe it's even both.
Gained Flutter Snow Flute (● Fetish)
What do you do?
[] Ask her about...
-[] Your power, she claimed to know about that.
-[] Why you were targeted last summer?
-[] Slade... just Slade. Why would she do that to anyone?
-[] Write in
[] Share information
-[] Just what Lara told you, that Winter has been infiltrated
-[] Mention Nemesis by name
-[] Give the names of all the infected
-[] Write in
[] Write in
OOC: On the matter of Hellscry since you made the roll to read her emotions in her aura once you will now get ongoing impressions of it as you speak. Also since I know you are going to ask, You did not get Without Honor without Hope Bonus dice this turn because up until you got to the table it was not cold enough. Mab is keeping her cold aura close, posibily because she does not want to harm Mac's beer.
Rolls
Appearance rolls: Molly vs Mab (literally even so no one gets any advantage)
First Salvo: Molly vs Mab (You lose hard, but can you hide how hard?)
Damage Control: Molly* vs Mab (Yup, though it's close)
Hellscry Chakra
Examining the Flute
*This should be Etiquette but the Roll's the same so I left it in
Appearance rolls: Molly vs Mab (literally even so no one gets any advantage)
First Salvo: Molly vs Mab (You lose hard, but can you hide how hard?)
Damage Control: Molly* vs Mab (Yup, though it's close)
Hellscry Chakra
Examining the Flute
*This should be Etiquette but the Roll's the same so I left it in
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Is that a canon picture of Mab, @DragonParadox? She seems a bit more alien than I was expecting.
I looked that one up intentionally and the reason yous see her like that is because you can see through the glamor she wears to soften her appearance thanks to IPP. Don't get me wrong she still has appearance 5, but she no longer knocks off dice off her opponent just for how wondrous-fair she is.