Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

The Gatekeeper routinely screens Winter's soldiers at the Outer Gates for Outsiders trying to infiltrate in the bodies of the injured. Its his job. And he explicitly says that he learned to detect Nemesis from the Fates, who in this universe apparently are the Mothers(see Dresden summon Mother Winter).
So its a capability we KNOW they have.

If you think that Mab would not trade a favor to screen her own fucking daughter and heir, my dude, you dont understand her.
And literally screening Winter's soldiers is the Gatekeeper's job.

Like BronzeTongue said, you do not NOT respond to a bomb threat.
Or in the US, a report of a mass shooting.
No 911 operator is going to ask you to prove it when you call in that someone in your building is making a bomb.
And yet, they do not as a matter of course check their highest nobles and most critical people for possession. Either they are stupid, they can't, or a risk of Nemesis infiltration is deemed acceptable when balanced against the costs of checking. Choose one. As a simple possiblity, checking may be damaging to the person being checked. The soldiers at the Gates are cannon fodder, meant to fight and die routinely. The nobles can't be easily replaced.

I can't believe what I am saying, but don't assume that Mab is stupid.
Winter Royalty cannot arbitrarily kill each other. There are Rules.
Is it only kill, actually? What about attack? Because a very simple explanation for this seeming inconsistency might be that to check a fae for corruption is to attack a fae on some level. And Mab cannot order or even ask for her daughter to be checked, as that would be attacking her.

As you said yourself, it takes Mab time to figure out that her daughter is possessed. And she very clearly doesn't do this by having Rashid or Mothers tell her. There's no, like, regular weekend visit to the Mothers' cottage where they check the Queen and the Lady. Rashid doesn't spend Christmas with Mab to check her Court and Summer Solstice enjoying Titania's hospitality.

If they have the capability, they aren't using it. This means that the ability comes at the cost greater than the benefit it provides. And we are talking about Nemesis here.
She literally has a thousand years of operation on us. Consider what that means in terms of resources and favors.

Mab spent six months in canon in Chicago doing nothing else besides just keeping Dresden's body alive between the end of Changes and the events of Ghost Story.
Then she spent another five months personally nursing Dresden back to health and combat capability.

If you think she doesnt have the multi-tasking resources to investigate just three members of her own Court while doing her duties, my dude, you're missing the point of Queen of Air and Darkness, Defender of The Outer Gates.
Sorry, but this sounds schizophrenic from you. You tend to oscillate wildly on Mab's capability. On one hand, you think that Mab doesn't have cannonfodderto send (or multitasking ability) to help us deal with a Wan Kuei incursion or a naagloshii, which would take her, at most, an afternoon. On the other, you think she has enough free time to organize a check on multiple of her nobles, which would take far longer. Choose, dammit. Is Mab strapped for personnel or not? Lea is still on ice, from what I remember.


And here is the continuation of my argument. I want to bring two more points forward.

First, let's play a hypothetical. Let's say we completely stonewall Mab, and don't give her a plausible explanation of how we learned the identities of the infected. Do you think Mab would just shrug and thank her good fortune? No, of course not. That's exposing herself to attack. She has to consider where the information comes from and how it was acquired. If we don't give her a good enough explanation, she'll have to find out herself. I can see two easily possible explanations (and that means Mab would see them too):
1) We were fed this information. This means we are either willing or unwilling accomplice of Nemesis and this is an Outsider plot. This means that Mab has to consider us compromised. Maybe not infected (though I am unsure how we would read to Rashid, as Infernal Exaltation seems to be sorta kinda kin to at least some Old Ones in a way), but compromised. After Mab confirms our words to be true, she'll have to think what would sacrificing these agents be worth to Nemesis. Getting Mab's favor (she'll owe us?)? Distracting her and Rashid for some critical moment (more on timing below)? Something else? She'll have to keep all those possibilities (and more) in her mind. Any favor we'll ask of her as repayment will have to be evaluated as a possible continuation of some grand Nemesis/Outsider plot. This means that any favor we get from Mab would be a poisoned fruit by default.

2) We got information somehow (we'll be discovered as a seer soon, if we haven't been already; I mean, didn't we do some crown use in front of Old Man Matthews and/or his granddaughter, both of whom were 110% guaranteed debriefed by Winter about the whole story). Mab should be able to check that we have never been in contact with Maeve or any other of the infected. Mab most likely has a pretty good guess on everything we did in the past months, actually. She almost certainly has us under surveillance. At this point it becomes important to Mab to determine the limits of our seer ability. She needs to know which of her secrets might be compromised by us. She'll almost certainly make a number of plays to learn about our Crown, testing us in many subtle ways. And if she learns how the Crown functions? We need to be able to fight her and likely Mother Winter at the same time and be able to inflict unacceptable damage when balanced against Mab preserving all her and Winter's secrets.

Maybe we learned it from the Eldest Fetch when we exalted? But then we have kept this information for a long time, and that's suspicious.

This is my first point. By not making a plausible story, we force Mab to speculate, and investigate on her own. That's dangerous and counter-productive to removing "Enemy: Winter" background we have.

Now, my second point - timing. We have delayed meeting Mab as much as we could. We are meeting her on Halloween, and she almost certainly has to assume that we know that we can kill her (or her daughter, or Mother Winter, or some other immortal) on Halloween. She has to consider - we could contact her at any time, she was explicitly listening for our call. She knows that we have planned for this meeting ahead of time - it's guaranteed that us reserving the pub was reported to her. She knows that we haven't in any way altered our plans for meeting her. She probably will learn about us meeting Lara - she'll definitely learn about the car chase.

If we knew about Nemesis infection for a prolonged period of time (the most plausible being since the moment of our exaltation, since that's the moment we were in contact with an infected), why have we delayed telling her till this moment? What do we get by telling her as late as possible, and on Halloween? If we learned this today (like we actually did), how did we do so? She'll investigate, and she certainly has access to agents that can do psychometry (reading the past of objects) and are disposable enough to risk checking around Nemesis-related topics. That checking comes too close to discovering our Crown.

This is my second point - the timing of the reveal is suspicious and actually looks very bad from the outside.
 
This is my first point. By not making a plausible story, we force Mab to speculate, and investigate on her own. That's dangerous and counter-productive to removing "Enemy: Winter" background we have
I didn't think about that. We need a list of everyone we told the power of our Crown to, so we can do a risk assesment. I know we told Harry... doesn't his ass owe her a favor or two?

That being said do we actually care about removing Winter as an enemy? Once we get rid of the Nemesis infected I expect it won't matter much at all what grudges they might've held before then.

[X] No one
 
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VOTE
[X]Plan Trinity
-[X] Lydia
-[X] Michael
-[X] Harry


Quick vote.
Still running errands, so will come back and explain my reasoning in 1-2 hours.

EDIT
See repeat vote below, with reasons
 
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VOTE
[X]Plan Trinity
-[X] Lydia
-[X] Michael
-[X] Harry


Quick vote.
Still running errands, so will come back and explain my reasoning in 1-2 hours.
I'm cool with all of them coming, I just don't think they should be in the room with us and Mab. No more than Mab would want any of her subordinates in the room with us when we share really high grade secrets (not that these people are our subordinates, but still...). Of course that's not necessarily why I don't want them there, but it's as good a justification as anyone might need.

[X] uju32
 
Harry isn't a good idea, while a very good investigator he isn't great at social stuff and is in debt to winter.

[X] Plan Household
-[X] Michael
-[X] Charity

Both Michael and Charity have heroic willpower and applicable intimacies, making them resilient to Mab's social abilities. Further they both provide direct social support to Molly and Michael as a Knight of the Cross has experience in high stakes supernatural dealings.
 
[X] Plan Household
-[X] Michael
-[X] Charity
Charity is hardcore, but she also implicitly disapproves of pretty much everything that'll be happening at this event. It also might not be great for her to see Molly firing in all cylinders in social combat against Mab. She does need to update her power level estimate fir Molly, but that's a hell of a deep end to throw her into. Also potentially a trauma button if she sees Molly as too inhuman.

What's the value added to offset all that?
 
On my side of the argument, the best I can see is this : disclose the Exorcism ritual. If Mab takes the bait, she'll find someone possessed that she's willing to completely lose (i.e. she'll be vivisecting their body, mind and soul after we deal with Nemesis to destructively check for effectiveness and possible booby traps left by us). This will give her proof that we can remove Nemesis. It will also give us an excuse to tell her the other names, as the "we used Nemesis as a focus to find other Nemesis victims" is much less scary than "we learned it from a random note that speculated about Winter's corruption".
The one glaring issue I can see with this plan is that the Winter Lady would be in the loop for this offer, which means Nemesis will know about this capacity before we start cleaning house, that is bad, that is very very bad, that is so bad I consider it as a much more serious threat then Mab feeling the need to investigate our sources.

The problem I see here Yog, is that their is no way to do this cleanly, any action we take on this topic exposes us to scrutiny/aggression from entities at the highest echelon of power in the setting, that's why I argued not to turn over this rock so early in the quest, but that ship has sailed, Molly knows, and it would be wildly out of character for her to sit on the information, not on something this important.

I do think you're missing one out that we have though, by bringing this information to Mab, we are putting Mab, and by association all of Winter into serious Debt, and that is a huge deal for the Fey in this setting.

They are metaphysically bound to honer that obligation, it will color how Mab, and again by association Winter, is allowed to treat us, and that includes how Mab can react to our gift of knowledge, it will be even more impactful once we throw in the ritual exorcism.

She will want to know how we know, of course she will, but the lengths she will be able to go too to find out are going to be curtailed by her obligation to Molly, add to that the fact that we are an ancient, reemerging peer level power generally aligned to some of Winters highest responsibilities, yet bound to a mortal teenagers relatively simple to manipulate mind, her incentives to keep us on side are going to considerable.

I think this may be the best time to act, and I think we have the leverage to do so relatively safely, which leads me to my vote.

[X] No one

We don't want anyone around when we share the fact that Mab's daughter is infected, anyone, at all, it wouldn't be safe.
 
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Charity is hardcore, but she also implicitly disapproves of pretty much everything that'll be happening at this event.
I think Charity would be advantageous because she disapproves of magical bullshit, she is very unlikely to go along with Mab's default position of "kneel before me mortal peasants" and she directly boosts Molly due to being an intimacy. She is also already involved directly in this as she was part of the rescue mission to Arctis Tor and thus is already in Mab's sights to some extent.
 
VOTE
[X]Plan Trinity
-[X] Lydia
-[X] Michael
-[X] Harry



RATIONALE
Its been a busy day, so let me give my reasoning.
====
Harry: YES.
He's our human Winter Court and Mab expert. He's been Mab's Emissary twice so far. He knows Ladies Maeve and Lily personally and has met both Mother Winter and Mother Summer.
If anyone we know has personal insight into the Fae in general, he is it.

He has also had dealings with Outsiders multiple times.
He may not know he's Starborn, but as a teenager he defeated a Walker, then during the events of Blood Rites he encountered the same Walker, and when we just got back from Arctis Tor he helped us fight some lesser Outsiders.

His insights can help us, and he needs to know this.

Michael: YES.
He has to our knowledge, fought and killed Outsiders at least twice before; he did it when saving the White Court trainees from Outsider attack at the end of Proven Guilty, and he helped us kill the Outsiders attacking Ebenezar at the end of Arc 1.

He is also a Knight of the Cross, and they have a reputation for integrity we can borrow. Their integrity is so beyond reproach that they are the only people who aren't signatories to the Unseelie Accords but are trusted not to take advantage of people.

If Molly is saying stuff in front of him, Mab can reasonably believe that Molly might be wrong, but she isn't trying to deceive her because Michael and his Sword would not be party to it.

We paid for him as Mentor 5 specifically for situations where his reputation and resources apply.
This is one of them.
Plus, his presence allows us to tell Charity to stay home without argument.


Lydia: YES.
She wants to be here. If we are treating her like an ally who can make her own decisions, I cant see a strong reason for her not to be. She both needs that experience talking to ppl at the higher tiers, and she has Exalted-tier mental defenses so we dont have to worry more than anyone else.

Furthermore, it gives us an additional Exalt set of senses at the table, in case its warranted.

And she is no more aggravating to Mab than Harry, who literally threw Summer's Fire into Winter's Heartspring.
Its her father that Mab has beef with, not her.


Charity: NO
I get the feeling the QM would like to write her, and I suspect it would be a memorable occasion to have Charity have words with the woman who was supposed to command the fetches who attacked her home, beat up her first son and kidnapped her daughter.

Unfortunately, I dont think we can handle an additional variable in this meeting; dealing with the Nemesis reveal is likely to be enough of a complication without putting Charity "Legendary" Carpenter in the mix.
Next time maybe.


There's also a bigger message that Molly sends in doing this: She trusts these people.
Trusts them enough to have them listen to her
And it also says that she isn't saying one thing to Mab and another thing to her allies.
 
Harry isn't a good idea, while a very good investigator he isn't great at social stuff and is in debt to winter.
Harry is literally the only person here who has met all the Fae Royals, From the Mothers to the Queens to the Ladies.
He's also the only trained Investigator here, the only one with experience investigating supernatural stuff, as well as Mab's preferred contractor for investigating stuff.

By comparison, Molly is Investigation 0, Lydia is Investigation 2.

His being in debt to Winter has never prevented him doing what he thinks is right, and its a very specific debt that he renegotiated with Mab; he has to take three tasks of his choice for her.
He's done two now.One remaining.
Both Michael and Charity have heroic willpower and applicable intimacies, making them resilient to Mab's social abilities.
Charity has no utility here.
She has no insight into the Fae Courts, or Nemesis, to share. She isn't a great diplomat. She doesnt have a reputation to fall back on. She has no mental defenses against UMI, and cant see through Fae glamor or detect magic.

All she brings to the table is faith magic and a perspective as Molly's parent, and Michael already does that.

We don't want anyone around when we share the fact that Mab's daughter is infected, anyone, at all, it wouldn't be safe.
Michael keeps greater secrets at need, and literally wields a Sword given to him by an archangel IIRC.
Harry has need to know because Maeve has tried to manipulate him against her mother multiple times.
Lydia is the only other Exalt we know of in the world, and is our right hand woman.

They all have need to know.
They all can be trusted(and have the ability) to keep the secret if necessary.
They all can give Molly unique advice that no-one else can.
I think Charity would be advantageous because she disapproves of magical bullshit, she is very unlikely to go along with Mab's default position of "kneel before me mortal peasants" and she directly boosts Molly due to being an intimacy. She is also already involved directly in this as she was part of the rescue mission to Arctis Tor and thus is already in Mab's sights to some extent.
This is a diplomatic summit.
Her disapproval is not actually a strength, but a liability. She doesnt give Molly any advice here, or any insights, that any of the others do. And she has to be defended against Fae glamor.

Bringing her is essentially a Hail Mary that she'll poke and stumble on something relevant.
And we're at as much risk of her offending Mab and making the meeting go worse instead of better.
 
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Michael keeps greater secrets at need, and literally wields a Sword given to him by an archangel IIRC.
Harry has need to know because Maeve has tried to manipulate him against her mother multiple times.
Lydia is the only other Exalt we know of in the world, and is our right hand woman.
I'm not worried about their ability to keep secrets, I'm concerned about Mab's reaction to a larger group of people knowing about Maeve, Debt may help keep Molly safe, that protection will apply to her faction, after a fashion, but it does burn some of the obligation not to lash out at the possible threat their presence represents to her daughter.

If it wasn't about Maeve I wouldn't have any objection to their presence, but when it comes to her daughter Mab is not entierly rational, nor bound by her Mantel. We can fill them in latter, though again I would leave out Maeve, but I think we would be needlessly burning points with Mab to spread the knowledge of Maeve's corruption, even to our closest circle.
 
[X] No one

I feel that showing that we are independent and staying on our own is more important here than showing up with support.
Besides, we have information about the Winter Court being infiltrated by the Outsiders, including Maeve. If we want to tell anything about it to Mab, we really should make sure there are no witnesses, since this is something Mab will be willing to kill nearly everyone about to keep secret.
Shows to who? We aren't displaying anything here. No, thats a terrible idea, both on fluff and mechanics.

Simply on the mechanical merits, Mab threw down 20 social dice + UMI without trying on our previous visit.
Now that she has several months research and prep time, its quite possible we are looking at more dice. She probably has more favorable DCs from doing her research.

Molly maxes out at 18 social dice, or 20 if we are allowed a stunt. And thats when she's burning Essence.
We can use all the bonus dice or DC buffs from assistants or friends we can get. Deliberately leaving them behind is basically a self-inflicted handicap, to try to impress a woman who can take advantage of that.

===
The US president shows up at meetings with an entire retinue of advisers for a reason.
Mab herself shows up alone, but she is a thousand plus year old queen, general and politician who has been doing this shit since before the final collapse of the Byzantine Empire.

We are not her equal yet, and may never be.
If you look at every other monarch or major diplomat in Peace Talks that wasn't Mab or in her tier like Ferrovax, they brought retinues.

Besides, you have to remember that Mab doesnt have all that many people she can trust implicitly.
We do.
We take advantage of that instead of trying to emulate the Queen of Winter.

===
This is not true.
Mab did not kill anyone who was aware of Maeve being infected in canon. Fae or human.
And there were significant numbers of them by the end of Cold Days.

As far as I can recall, Mab does not punish you for things you haven't done.
She's very rational that way.

I'm not worried about their ability to keep secrets, I'm concerned about Mab's reaction to a larger group of people knowing about Maeve, Debt may help keep Molly safe, that protection will apply to her faction, after a fashion, but it does burn some of the obligation not to lash out at the possible threat their presence represents to her daughter.

If it wasn't about Maeve I wouldn't have any objection to their presence, but when it comes to her daughter Mab is not entierly rational, nor bound by her Mantel. We can fill them in latter, though again I would leave out Maeve, but I think we would be needlessly burning points with Mab to spread the knowledge of Maeve's corruption, even to our closest circle.
See Cold Days for the answer to that question. Mab canonically didn't go around killing people who knew about Maeve. Mab does not do things that are counterproductive, or makes unnecessary enemies.
Do recall Mab was the person who finally ordered Maeve's death in Cold Days.

Our retinue would be literally here under the Unseelie Accords. Mab's own guarantee of security.
Mab literally can't break it.
The most you might see is Mab ask you not to spread the information. Ask.
 
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[X] Charity

[X] Plan Household
-[X] Michael
-[X] Charity

Charity has shown herself to be very good at dealing with supernatural scale social checks.
 
Our retinue would be literally here under the Unseelie Accords. Mab's own guarantee of security.
Mab literally can't break it.
The most you might see is Mab ask you not to spread the information. Ask.
That specific protection doesn't apply, as Molly is in possession of something stolen from winter which she has no option but to bring to the meeting.

On the Accords:
Alas the smile does not last long as you get to the list of reasons someone might be forced to leave neutral ground without the lingering protection to 'go in peace'. These include insults to the legitimacy of the opposing power, showing up with property you stole off the opposing side... including thralls, serfs and slaves because of course it does.

So Molly and retinue is not protected by the Accords for this meeting.

Edit: Though the provisions on behaviour while on Accorded Neutral Territory does apply, so Mab does have to wait until someone steps outside before trying to directly kill them.
 
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I think Charity would be advantageous because she disapproves of magical bullshit, she is very unlikely to go along with Mab's default position of "kneel before me mortal peasants" and she directly boosts Molly due to being an intimacy. She is also already involved directly in this as she was part of the rescue mission to Arctis Tor and thus is already in Mab's sights to some extent.
Mab's default approach is unlikely to be that overbearing, if only because it's obviously unlikely to work that she didn't bother with it last time.

Her resistance to that hypothetical is also not something we need support on even if it did happen.
 
Well it does provide you some protections, just not as many as if you did not have something stolen from Arctis Tor glued to your soul.
You have not broken the Accords as you are not party to them, it's just that Mab as a signatory is not obliged to let you get home before challenging you to a duel if she is minded to. The Accords to not actually say 'stealing is wrong' since they do not make moral judgements, they lay out how one is permitted to react in Accorded Neutral Territory after having been stolen from. Even with that being said Accorded Neutral grounds are still good since you know that there are not enchantments being used, no compulsions, nothing that could directly impair your reason.

That specific protection doesn't apply, as Molly is in possession of something stolen from winter which she has no option but to bring to the meeting.

On the Accords:


So Molly and retinue is not protected by the Accords for this meeting.

Edit: Though the provisions on behaviour while on Accorded Neutral Territory does apply, so Mab does have to wait until someone steps outside before trying to directly kill them.
The specific rulings seem to be a bit broader than that.

It sounds to me like she has a specific pathway for redress in the event of something like this. She can challenge us to a duel, but killing random members of our faction is off limits.

Also worth noting that it's highly unlikely that Mab herself is going to act like a cartoon villain. She has an agenda she's trying to push, and Mab isn't exactly a social slouch. She's well aware of the potential issues with trying to pressure us that way. She'd only even consider it if she thought our bridges were truly burned and the only profit was in antagonism.

Remember that her game from last time, where we arguably stole from her twice, was to try cutting a deal to sell us secrets. Probably with a hook to get us on alignment with winter interests, but it's still a sign of the direction she's taking this.


[X]Plan Trinity

Approval voting none because I think going alone would be better than adding Charity to this volatile mix.
[X] No one
 
The one glaring issue I can see with this plan is that the Winter Lady would be in the loop for this offer, which means Nemesis will know about this capacity before we start cleaning house, that is bad, that is very very bad, that is so bad I consider it as a much more serious threat then Mab feeling the need to investigate our sources.
It'll know anyway. The only difference is, maybe, whether it'll know before or after Winter Lady is exorcised. Nemesis is not stupid, and Nemesis already knows of our existence.

Now, I agree that the danger we represent to it by having an Ancient Sorcery absolute exorcism in conjunction with the Crown is higher than the danger we represent to it by only having the Crown, but the difference, in my mind, is marginal. Yes, without the exorcism most of the hosts would need to be killed, and couldn't be saved. But it would still deny Nemesis its targets.

I do think you're missing one out that we have though, by bringing this information to Mab, we are putting Mab, and by association all of Winter into serious Debt, and that is a huge deal for the Fey in this setting.
I address this in my last post:
First, let's play a hypothetical. Let's say we completely stonewall Mab, and don't give her a plausible explanation of how we learned the identities of the infected. Do you think Mab would just shrug and thank her good fortune? No, of course not. That's exposing herself to attack. She has to consider where the information comes from and how it was acquired. If we don't give her a good enough explanation, she'll have to find out herself. I can see two easily possible explanations (and that means Mab would see them too):
1) We were fed this information. This means we are either willing or unwilling accomplice of Nemesis and this is an Outsider plot. This means that Mab has to consider us compromised. Maybe not infected (though I am unsure how we would read to Rashid, as Infernal Exaltation seems to be sorta kinda kin to at least some Old Ones in a way), but compromised. After Mab confirms our words to be true, she'll have to think what would sacrificing these agents be worth to Nemesis. Getting Mab's favor (she'll owe us?)? Distracting her and Rashid for some critical moment (more on timing below)? Something else? She'll have to keep all those possibilities (and more) in her mind. Any favor we'll ask of her as repayment will have to be evaluated as a possible continuation of some grand Nemesis/Outsider plot. This means that any favor we get from Mab would be a poisoned fruit by default.
A plausible scenario is that we are working with / for Outsiders, and that this whole thing is a sacrificial play on Nemesis's part in order to put Mab into our debt. Which would make this kind of debt a very poisoned pill.
I didn't think about that. We need a list of everyone we told the power of our Crown to, so we can do a risk assesment. I know we told Harry... doesn't his ass owe her a favor or two?

That being said do we actually care about removing Winter as an enemy? Once we get rid of the Nemesis infected I expect it won't matter much at all what grudges they might've held before then.
At the moment we outright told Michael, Harry, Charity (I think), and Bob. Uriel and presumably some other members of the Heavenly Host know too. Gard (which means Odin, Odin's organization and Marcone) know that we are a seer of some significant ability - Gard speculated that we have dominion over some manner of high ranking / powerful spirit of knowledge and can call upon it near freely.

Depending on how thorough Cindy's debriefing with Winter was (i.e. whether they did stuff like reading her memories / psychometry), they know that we are a seer of some ability too. We referred to this ability on two occasions near her:
1) We talked with Gard and Michael when rescuing her concerning Holt's car's passengers and Lydia's location:
"Holt's car's coming this way. Forty five minutes out at current speeds. And she's bringing a friend." Abrupt silence meets your declaration, and you take a moment to dust off your knee. "Cant tell what it is, just that its human shaped and fits in a car seat, but has no life signs. Time we get Cindy..." you nod towards her... "out of here." Then you pause, mind racing, as you finally make a connection. "Wait....Holt's a seer isnt she?" you say slowly. "Could she predict the Ankou's daughter would...." The expression on Gard's face gives you your answer. "Fff...udge. Alright everyone, change of plans.

"Wait... wait... what... something human shaped, but with no life signs, like a zombie? Zombies are real?" Cindy's voice rises to a panic again as she scrambles towards dad, probably because sword aside he looks like the least alarming of the three of you. So much for not scaring her...

"How certain are you of the information?" Gard gives your phone a very pointed look.

"Very certain, listen you know how I said I would fill you in on who those shoes belonged to? I think that was Eldest Ankou's daughter, we need to find her and then we need to get to the surface by some other way than Katrina."
Thus the last sliver of uncertainty that this could have been another really well dressed tourist into the sunless and stinky realms melts away at the sight of Lydia crouched behind a grate listening to you scare off the ghouls. Apparently she's too intent to care if her jeans are ruined. A moment later she almost speaks, almost calls out, then changes her mind, turns and raises a hand slowly in front her her as if pulling unseen threads and the concrete of the tunnel rises up like the wave of a frozen sea, just wide enough for her to step onto it and then fly off. Lydia flies past what looks to be an old subway station and then roughhewn tunnels carved for someone or something distinctly smaller than a full-grown human, though Lydia manages to get through by pushing the stone aside like a fish moving through the sea.

Strangely she seems a lot more certain of her powers that she had been in the other vision.

"I know because I know her dad, she is Daniel's girlfriend, her name's Lydia and she's nice, but she gave me 'spooky side of the street' vibes. I did not want to prod, but down here, well I put two and two together and it came out to 'we need to hurry'. Come on. she went this way..." You are already halfway out of the chamber as you speak.
This here shows the ability to spy on someone from afar, and to find someone's location from afar.

2) We asked (through Charity) Cindy for a focus to find her grandfather:
Alas Cindy is not the charms and bracelets kind of girl which means she does not have a focus to use to find her grandfather so that leaves you looking for Katrina...
This establishes a mechanic of "we need a focus related to the object we are looking for". Especially if Charity explained to Cindy why we needed the focus, which she almost certainly did, so as not to alarm the child even more and to obtain her cooperation.

So, I would bet that Winter knows we are a seer (either through Cindy or through Odin), and might know that we work with conceptually-related foci. The extent of our ability is, or should be, unknown to them, as I doubt Mab could have called one of the Heavenly Host to trade for information.

As to my vote, switching to
[X] No one

Bringing either Lydia or Harry to this is outright stupid. Discussing Nemesis with them should be done beforehand, in a very secure (ideally by means of Ancient Sorcery) location. Bringing Charity is hilarious, but probably ill-advised. So, no one is the only viable option of those still present with a chance of winning.
 
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