- Location
- Germany
I'm pretty sure we know the result already, we found out about his greatest fuck-up in the old fashioned way.
[X] Suggest that J join the Order of the Cauldron and vouch for him
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
[X] Suggest that J join the Order of the Cauldron and vouch for him
Huh.
Brother Dev is being proactive.
===
VOTE
[X] Say nothing, he can handle himself
Pass. We can tell his secrets, but I dont think we know him well enough to vouch for him to other people.
Furthermore, I dont think Cauldron is at a point where I'd feel comfortable drawing attention to them by sending them a former victim of Kakuri. Let alone an adult man.
I'd have been more comfortable putting him with the Jade Dogs, who Tuzi has met.
Give him time, and see how it goes.
Besides, Tuzi knows how to reach us, and Brother Dev is training him.
He should be fine in the short to mediumterm.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We might be better off finding an ambitious member of the white court first and offering them the chance to get a promotion. We will likely have few approving us soon just to benefit from MIS. Maybe one of them will be a good candidate.
Or I wonder if there is any wish that Lara really wants granted.
We know that there is a wish that Marconi really wants granted.
Eventually, yes.
That eventually does not need to be on any kind of timescale that bears any relevance to this story.
Solars post-Usurpation couldnt time travel or resurrect the dead either.
Still, hypothetical argument.
Uriel or any angel being multiversal or not is not something thats likely to have any relevance to us.
Last edited:
- Location
- Germany
Do you really think he would draw more attention?
He is, for now, just another minor talent, which fits pretty well with the Order.
As far as I can tell the Akuma didn't do anything permanent to him.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[X] Suggest that J join the Order of the Cauldron and vouch for him
Another note on VEE, there are some nasty tricks you can play with the way that VEE specifies outcomes, and they happen - whether or not the person would want them to happen in that way.
For example, if you can whisper into the ear of someone with Status (Red Council) 4, and get them to wish to be the Red King, then they will. The old Red King will die or be deposed in short order, whether or not the wisher would actually be willing or capable of dealing with the fallout of this. The charm will just find a way. There's no take backs.
This makes VEE incredibly good at causing political chaos in enemy supernatural organisations if you can engage with their middle ranks socially.
2) Manipulation and Alertness are useful. It is however, a charm with poor mechanical-fluff mix. It doesn't fit well with either the Wicked City's themes or the description of building the nucleus of a cult (which isn't a Wicked City theme, as it's the cyberpunk hell, so should be talking about corporations and street gangs), and seems like it's just a lazy copy of tiger warrior training. The sample Exigent's training charm would be a much better fit for the Wicked City.
3) It can. VEE is very powerful but you really don't want to go granting Status (White Council) dots unless you want to risk killing off Senior Council members. The leadership of the CPD and the rest of the Chicago municipal government doesn't seem to require so much distorting of fate to manufacture vacancies amongst, although we're still best off using it at sensible points of electoral cycles and promotion rounds to avoid too much dead men's shoes.
Note that VEE doesn't just bluntly grant a dot. It grants a specific wish made by the recipient of such scope that it can be represented by a single extra Background (or Ability or Ability) dot. While someone wishing to be richer may be risky for their parents, wishing to win the lottery would be much safer. As a result, specific wishes such as getting an applied for job or winning an election you're running in are much safer for us to grant.
4) They can try. Doing so isn't something that we have to take lying down. It's part of the reason to go after multiple institutions at once. If we're making inroads in local media, business, government, police and courts at once, they're unlikely to have the bandwidth to deal with it. It's also hard for them to work out what's going on, as there's no apparent reason they can see for what's going on.
For assassination, the ability to soak lethal does help.
For example, if you can whisper into the ear of someone with Status (Red Council) 4, and get them to wish to be the Red King, then they will. The old Red King will die or be deposed in short order, whether or not the wisher would actually be willing or capable of dealing with the fallout of this. The charm will just find a way. There's no take backs.
This makes VEE incredibly good at causing political chaos in enemy supernatural organisations if you can engage with their middle ranks socially.
2) Manipulation and Alertness are useful. It is however, a charm with poor mechanical-fluff mix. It doesn't fit well with either the Wicked City's themes or the description of building the nucleus of a cult (which isn't a Wicked City theme, as it's the cyberpunk hell, so should be talking about corporations and street gangs), and seems like it's just a lazy copy of tiger warrior training. The sample Exigent's training charm would be a much better fit for the Wicked City.
3) It can. VEE is very powerful but you really don't want to go granting Status (White Council) dots unless you want to risk killing off Senior Council members. The leadership of the CPD and the rest of the Chicago municipal government doesn't seem to require so much distorting of fate to manufacture vacancies amongst, although we're still best off using it at sensible points of electoral cycles and promotion rounds to avoid too much dead men's shoes.
Note that VEE doesn't just bluntly grant a dot. It grants a specific wish made by the recipient of such scope that it can be represented by a single extra Background (or Ability or Ability) dot. While someone wishing to be richer may be risky for their parents, wishing to win the lottery would be much safer. As a result, specific wishes such as getting an applied for job or winning an election you're running in are much safer for us to grant.
4) They can try. Doing so isn't something that we have to take lying down. It's part of the reason to go after multiple institutions at once. If we're making inroads in local media, business, government, police and courts at once, they're unlikely to have the bandwidth to deal with it. It's also hard for them to work out what's going on, as there's no apparent reason they can see for what's going on.
For assassination, the ability to soak lethal does help.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Which was a for a very good narrative reason. If you want to maintain the tension that exalted can do anything with the question being if they should then it is very important to make sure that they don't get an undo button.
Ambitious =/= Good at the job.
Yes.
Michael and Harry had to kill or drive off some shit to free him from his throne of imprisonment in the NeverNever.
There are spirits who will remember him. As well as junior akuma.When(not if) Emma-O sends agents back to the city, whether bakemono or spirits, a routine check is not going to cost them very much.
Furthermore, do remember that agents of the Yomi Kings can haunt the dreams of people they've identified.
Without even showing up physically.
Which is presumably part of the reason Brother Dev is training him.
I dont think Cauldron is capable of sustaining that kind of attention yet.
EDIT
I mean, on his own, he's a minor talent.
But put him in Cauldron and he's a possible lever to get at a whole group of minor talents, a group that Molly is affiliated with.
People who might normally pass unnoticed in the short to medium term.
That seems unwise.
Last edited:
Depending on what we think of the White Court, that's part of the point. If they're being annoying granting multiple of them extra dots in Status (White Court or House Skavis/Malkova) in quick succession would get them out of our hair for a long while.
Or see if anyone fancies a few dots in Status (Winter Court)... Centralised, hierarchical organisations are very vulnerable to Infernal decapitation and take over. Shame the Wan Kuei no longer have Emperors, and have a decentralised penumbra of philosophical teachers at the top of their society who have withdrawn from governance.
Last edited:
- Location
- Germany
That does also sound like he could use a bit more support-network right now.
Not for physical dangers, if Akuma come a-knocking it's either us us or nobody helping, but having people besides his spirit-girlfriend to talk to about things might help.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We just need a pawn so the white court doesn't get in our way. I don't really care if the replacement we set up is pants on their head dumb. We are not in invested in the White court's success.
Last edited:
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I don't see how there is any advantage to be had, for us or the Order, in trying to bring J into the organization.
He has more baggage than the Order needs, IMO. Also, if we are going to spend any time shoring up or developing the Order, it feels like J and Tuzi would end up taking an inordinate amount of work/attention compared to the rest of the ladies.
[X] Say nothing, he can handle himself
He has more baggage than the Order needs, IMO. Also, if we are going to spend any time shoring up or developing the Order, it feels like J and Tuzi would end up taking an inordinate amount of work/attention compared to the rest of the ladies.
[X] Say nothing, he can handle himself
He's training with Brother Devsimar.
And he did have a social circle before we ever entered the picture.
If he stops/finishes training with Brother Dev, it might be worth revisiting things. I dont really see the need now for him.
And Cauldron needs some time to grow its strength without attenti8n.
And on a small but amusing aside?
J might have girlfriend problems hooking up with an overwhelmingly female organization of minor talents.
EDIT
I'd tell Anne about him and Tuzi, but nothing more.
Not at this time.
Strong disagree.
The White Court, in existing, fill a niche that would normally be coveted by other, potentially worse entities.
We most definitely cannot afford to disrupt the White Court at this time.
Cowl and a bunch of Outsiders have been plotting how to destroy the Whites. I have no interest in doing Nemesis work for it.
Last edited:
- Location
- Georgia
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
And if we are filling up the power structures ourselves thereby filling their nitch then we don't need them. Not saying that we need to destroy the White Court, but if they come into conflict with us then they can be suborned or destroyed and no one will shead a tear.
Last edited:
We don't need to destroy the White Court yet. As an institution though, there'll be no shadows for them to rule in a future beneath the green sun...
They span over two thousand years of activity and three continents that I know of.
They were responsible for setting up the Black Court to be destroyed.
Some of their members form a significant portion of the Archive's agents in the Oblivion War
You are drastically overestimating our current capabilities.
Drastically.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Now that we have set our standards for MIS I expect that our influence in the White Court will increase passively overtime in any case.
And we will soon be ruler of a hell with a population greater then earth.
You are drastically underestimating our soon capabilities.
Drastically.
We don't even have VEE yet and I expect that we will get the kingdom charm first. It doesn't even make sense to talk about our current capabilities in terms of VEE.
Last edited:
On the timescales that the local Powers think in, and will be expecting us to sign agreements covering, we're going to be bestriding this world like a colossus within the blink of an eye.
Molly is the harbinger of the apocalypse for the White Court just as much as Cowl with outsiders in tow would be. She's just more likely to melt them down for essence to shape her new future from than simply kill them.
On VEE though, when we do start throwing it around, I wonder if we'll provoke a reaction from the White God. It does more to void mortal free will than just about any other charm, seeing as it takes hold of all existence and tells everyone in it a fact that they have no choice in becoming true, and that can be a fact that requires them to have done something.
Molly is the harbinger of the apocalypse for the White Court just as much as Cowl with outsiders in tow would be. She's just more likely to melt them down for essence to shape her new future from than simply kill them.
On VEE though, when we do start throwing it around, I wonder if we'll provoke a reaction from the White God. It does more to void mortal free will than just about any other charm, seeing as it takes hold of all existence and tells everyone in it a fact that they have no choice in becoming true, and that can be a fact that requires them to have done something.
The White God does not move against all things that affect free will, otherwise He would smite people making love potions and Lawbreakers of the Fourth. Certainly that infringes on the free will of other humans and Molly right now is a human, if one with a weapon of unfathomable power strapped to her soul. If and when she ascends to... something else things might change.
1)We will not have a population larger than Earth.Im pretty sure thats been established.
And most of that population will be Neverside anyway, not in reality.
2) I will repeat: You drastically overestimate our capabilities.
Taking over a major supernatural player from the inside Manchurian candidate style requires several times the overall resources of the target to avoid disruption, especially when they already have enemies looking to take advantage.
Thats the equivalent of attempting to replace a plane engine in mid-flight while under attack.
Disrupting the White Court risks the same sort of widescale disruption we saw in canon that followed the destruction of the Red Court, with the Fomor launching a war of expansion, multiple smaller factions making plays for power.
And a bunch of Outsiders trying to take out Demonreach.
Literally, the plots of Turn Coat, White Night and Peace Talks have all had as a primary or secondary goal attempts to destroy or severely weaken the White Court. There's a reason for that.
I refuse to do the job of the bad guys for them.
Last edited:
Exalted are explicitly supposed to be able to walk into the base of the strongest vampire in a city and kill them at character gen.