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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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yrsillar said:
Ling Qi decided not to comment. "What blend is this, I've never seen tea with such a bitter scent."

"Because its not tea. It's some foreign drink, imported by the Xuan. Appropriate for your nonsense, no?" Elder Jiao drawled. "And besides, it has a good bite."

Ling Qi raised her eyebrows. Such a thing would probably be hellishly expensive. There was a certain mix of qi in the dark, almost muddy liquid too, an earth-heaven mixture, how strange. She raised the cup to her lips, sipped, and immediately blanched, her face scrunching up at the horribly bitter flavor.

Xin sighed. "Do add some milk dear, the raw flavor isn't for everyone."

Ling Qi coughed into her sleeve, set the cup down and hurried to do so from the chilled silver pot on the table.
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So we see coffee for the first time! Qi may hate it now but wait until she invents iced coffee :V
 
yrsillar said:
[ ] Dispersion, seek not negation but acclimation, one must be touched to understand (Bastion's negation may affect more potent environmental effects, but can never fully negate them.)
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This is likely adding milk to bitter tea. It works on even the most powerful effects, but never fully gets rid of the taste. Still a touch of bitter can actually be a good thing.
yrsillar said:
[ ] Grounding, Through and out, world and spirit are one, understand and stand tall. (Bastion's negation may apply to more targets, and linger even without your maintaining attention.)
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This drills a hole in the bottom of the mug switching out the environment.

So give any example say someone hits us with a firestorm. The first method attempts to turn it into a nice warm day.

The second method attempts to force them to try and burn the whole spirit world before they get to us.
 
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Dispersion feels a lot less hostile than grounding. Especially if we are aiming at an art to use on and around too-powerful allies.
 
"I am no such thing. The word you are looking for is experienced, girl," the Elder snorted. "You cultivate that old spirit-speaking art, don't you?"
She blinked at the non-sequitur, using a little spoon to stir milk into the strange drink. "I do, I've been cultivating it whenever I can spare a moment, since it seems to me that high cultivators and spirits are not so different."
"Correct, though it's impolitic and rude to say it," Elder Jiao tsked.
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...
...
"Deep breath."
VINDICATIOOOOOON!!!
 
Glau said:
Dispersion feels a lot less hostile than grounding. Especially if we are aiming at an art to use on and around too-powerful allies.
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Yes and unlike grounding it can have degrees of success. Grounding is all or nothing. But most importantly is when you are dealing with multiple people. Grounding you have to stand against all of them yourself. Dispersion allows for playing them against each other.
 
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The divide here seems pretty clear-cut.

[ ] Dispersion, seek not negation but acclimation, one must be touched to understand (Bastion's negation may affect more potent environmental effects, but can never fully negate them.)

This is for personal use.

[ ] Grounding, Through and out, world and spirit are one, understand and stand tall. (Bastion's negation may apply to more targets, and linger even without your maintaining attention.)

This is for the fief and for shepherding lower-ranked subordinates.

I'm thinking Dispersion is better just because when it comes to Grounding, this is a basic civilizational need: Wards exist for just this reason and there's been plenty of motivation to improve the art, so there's no reason for Ling Qi to reinvent the wheel. But if Ling Qi is going to do this regularly, then investing in a personal capability to deal with high-ranks is going to free up a lot of resources and give her more leeway to deal with surprises.
 
So, what we've learned, politically speaking:

One of the failure conditions of the project is pissing of the MoI too much, since if it becomes politically costly enough Shenhua might pull the plug.

Cao Chun is never going to be on our side and we should not bring him in too closely, lest he realize we're super xenophilic. We do need to keep him as appeased as possible because of the above though.

Someone else in the MoI might try to sabotage the project. However, Cao Chun would not be opposed to rooting out/punishing the bad actors - if we can prove they were doing it.

Good information to keep in mind, previously our best knowledge on the subject was "peakaboos bad", which while correct is unhelpfully vague.
 
This was a dense update. We learnt quite a bit about the MoI's side as well as the best avenues to deal with them.
That's going to come in handy in the upcoming Imperial Menegrie action and with whatever event comes up from the shared meeting place construction.

yrsillar said:
"Wayward, and not foreign," Xin finished. "If I might add a suggestion, some implication that Imperial ways might spread will help you. That man's pride does not lie in himself but institutions, and he truly believes imperial ways and means bring the greatest safety and happiness."

Ling Qi found that slightly distasteful, but if it was an angle to be worked, it was what it was. She could understand it a little. They were enemies in their current aims, but they were both imperial.
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I agree with Ling Qi. It's an useful tool, but it feels as if we are appealing to him to "kill the indian in them, save the men" mentality, even if it's not that extreme.

yrsillar said:
She blinked at the swap of subject again, taking a long sip from the now cooler drink, she had added… a lot of milk while they were talking. It was still bitter, but palatable now. "Long term… I think I want to purchase the art from the Sect, for use in my home, with subdinates. I have seen a few methods, but I prefer it for spirit negotiations. And I suspect I will be the… head priestess at our snowblossom for some time. I think it would be good to be able to lead processions and acclimate the spirits there to mortals and vice versa."
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YES.
I didn't know we needed to purchase Sect's arts to teach them to our clan and subordinates, but I'm glad Ling Qi thought about it.
I'm all in for establishing a doctrine of NeoWeilu Spirit Seekers in Snowblossom and them progressively expand into the Emerald Seas.
Don't let Cao Chun hear of this, though.

Then comes the vote.
We can choose between an active version to use on our adventures or a passive version for the fief and others long term situations (like leaving a group of yellows and greens guarding a site, for example).

Seeing how Ling Qi still has many adventures dealing with higher realms spirits (like the Cathedral) and adventuring into hazardous environments (undergroung war), I think that Dispersion will be significately more useful.
Besides, there are wards and geomancy to deal with lower level stuff while we aren't around. And we do have a Meng Geomancer coming at Hamlet, so that should take care of Grounding's role without much trouble.
 
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All this leads me to further believe in the achievability of seeding The Foundation with Sects from all across the Empire.
 
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I feel like I want the one that most fits with out mist. If you shoot an arrow or lightning bolt into our mist, what does the mist do to handle it? Personally I like the idea of the mist being a realm of it's own, a place where space and reality bends like Dream, where Ling Qi controls the flow of qi and physics. An arrow or lightning bolt goes in and keeps going without ever hitting anything, slowly being worn down be the heavy, cold mist that saps it of momentum, energy, heat and any kind of qi. The mist devours the attack, like Lake Hei in SNR.

And when you have that bottomless pit, that endless void like Ling Qi has, you can then also cultivate ways to feed into that void. Like a hungry vortex that bends space and qi until everything runs through it. Or like a cold mantle that drains everything slowly from the moment it enters it's cover. Both work, both are very similar, but which one is the better metaphor for what Ling Qi wants her mist to be? I haven't figured that out yet.
 
Yes! I knew MoSS could work on human counterparts. I can't wait to see how this will influence our Spirit Seeker trait and how that, in turn, will influence our definition of Truth since MoSS is tied to Sincerity. Hopefully, it'll draw LQ's attention to her potential heart demon. During the tribulation, she felt a pain in her dantian, but she didn't really acknowledge any problem with (IMO) the Truth/Sincerity chasm.

yrsillar said:
Spirit Speaker(G): 6
You understand something of the alien ways of spirits, and they in turn may understand humanity through you. When you speak, most spirits listen at least long enough to hear you out. When speaking to other humans your experience makes you more able to wield honesty as a knife, never speaking a direct falsehood without intent.
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yrsillar said:
Ling Qi frowned. He was similar to Cai Renxiang. Or… no that was a disservice to her liege. They approached similar conclusions from different directions. Renxiang saw clearly defined law and systemic solutions as the best means to reach her end. It seemed that Cao Chun saw such a hard system as an end unto itself. "It seems like it will be impossible to fully sway him then. Our goals are misaligned."

"Quick, that's good, not bothering to waste time agonizing over the idea that you can't be everyone's friend. You've grown, a little, better than I expected with what I can see you cultivating," Elder Jiao said.

Ling Qi remained silent for a moment. "I am going to be condescended too a lot, aren't I? I want to understand. I want to be understood. There is nothing about that which precludes me from recognizing an enemy, and opposing them."
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This reminds me of some of the discussions in the thread about Choice and what would happen if we have two scions with different ideals. Looks like she will pick a side if both of them can't see eye to eye after the discussion. Communication is about understanding others, but that doesn't stop you from disagreeing with them afterwards.

Plus, I love how the philosophy of MoSS is being tied to the narrative of our political battles. I hope we can find a good compromise with Cao Chun now. He's ultimately trying to help after he experienced some bad juju. At least we have a more specific understanding of the buttons we should not to push with the MoI now.


[ ] Dispersion, seek not negation but acclimation, one must be touched to understand (Bastion's negation may affect more potent environmental effects, but can never fully negate them.)

Now, for the vote. I have to say that I prefer Dispersion. Grounding feels like it deals with the idea of Unity. The world and spirits are one, so you fully understand them. But with Multitude, and Ling Qi's focus on the individual, Dispersion feels like it suits her. Plus, it feels more active? Engaging? You'll have to be touched by spirits, see who they are and acclimatise to that before you can negate them. And when you do, you'll have to keep them in mind with your dispersion, to avoid an attack. That feeling of constant engagement would work better for narrative scenes, IMO. It keeps the use of MoSS and Bastion in the forefront so that it won't get muddled with all the other background effects.

Plus, it feels more in line with what we talked about with Jiao and what we learned in the tribulation.

[ ] Grounding, Through and out, world and spirit are one, understand and stand tall. (Bastion's negation may apply to more targets, and linger even without your maintaining attention.)

After thinking about it more, I think Grounding is the better option, mainly because of Ling Qi's plans- both for MoSS in general and in the long term.

Ling Qi wants to use MoSS to train her priests and Ministry of Spiritual Affairs. That's goal number one. Goal no. 2 is she wants to introduce Weilu methods to the Foundations and hopefully the Emerald Seas in the long term.

However, as Wang Lian said, though the Weilu mwrhods are good, they are too personal. They require individual relationships with spirits and thus are difficult to scale up.

Ling Qi nodded her head. That was a fairly common line of thought among the more moderate sort of imperials. "Many spirits are dangerous, alien, but as you said. They change by being near us, bonding with us. I will make no apologies for treating my spirits as kin."

"It's good that you're not spineless about it, dancing around me with words," Wang Lian agreed. "Come lets get a cup of wine. "I don't disapprove of your method, I just don't think it works at scale."
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Grounding HELPS with that. It works on multiple targets, like wards, and creates a lingering effect afterward. This can help set the ground for further rites and rituals instead of relying on a spirit liking you before it squashes you. I'm confident that this can and will help with scalability.

Firstly, one person can pacify and neutralise many spirit's effects without active engagement. It won't go a long way towards standardisation - we'll need to make more tweaks to MoSS for that- but it's a start on that path, imo.

Plus, Dispersion feels like SNR and Grounding feels like TRF. Even though Dispersion may be more "active", in a fighting sense, it's difficult to make it visible, just like how SNR is usually a line about a black cover or whatever unless it's the anti-finisher. We'll leap from one problem to another. The visible effect may be the reduction in effects, but it's not as eye-catching or narratively visible as a total removal of negative environmental effects, like it does for Grounding.

And lastly, well, both Dispersion and Grounding talk about understanding, but Dispersion specifically talks about ignoring negotiation in favour of acclimatisation, while Grounding asserts that you can try and understand two different things by looking at their connections, the points where they intersect and resemble each other.

That feels very Ling Qi to me compared to "you have to touch me for me to understand". Ling Qi is no longer ignorant. She seeks knowledge and understanding, and I think this best reflects that.

I think I'll go with
[X] Grounding, Through and out, world and spirit are one, understand and stand tall. (Bastion's negation may apply to more targets, and linger even without your maintaining attention.)


Edit: Added arguments for Grounding
 
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yrsillar said:
"Appeals to individual virtue are unlikely to resonate. Sentiment even less so. He sees the world in systems. That people are virtuous only through constraint and ritual and tradition," Xin said. "Foreign or questioning elements inherently weaken the system of virtue which separates men from beasts, no matter their intention."
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It is the artist's duty to question. The trickster's role to make fools of the mighty. Hold the mirror to history and tradition, and reveal their absurdities.(Creation, Expression, Truth)

Yea, he is definitely not going to like our modus operandi.

For the Vote, I'm going to wait to read some arguments ... don't have a strong opinion atm.
 
[X] Dispersion, seek not negation but acclimation, one must be touched to understand (Bastion's negation may affect more potent environmental effects, but can never fully negate them.)

Why talk to small spirits when big spirits do trick?

Dispersion feels like it fits LQ's character better, overall.
 
[X] Dispersion, seek not negation but acclimation, one must be touched to understand (Bastion's negation may affect more potent environmental effects, but can never fully negate them.)
 
[X] Dispersion, seek not negation but acclimation, one must be touched to understand (Bastion's negation may affect more potent environmental effects, but can never fully negate them.)
 
I like the aesthetics more I like having some narrative wiggle room with our defenses.

[X] Dispersion, seek not negation but acclimation, one must be touched to understand (Bastion's negation may affect more potent environmental effects, but can never fully negate them.)
 
[X] Dispersion, seek not negation but acclimation, one must be touched to understand (Bastion's negation may affect more potent environmental effects, but can never fully negate them.)
 
[ ] Dispersion, seek not negation but acclimation, one must be touched to understand (Bastion's negation may affect more potent environmental effects, but can never fully negate them.)
 
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[X] Dispersion, seek not negation but acclimation, one must be touched to understand (Bastion's negation may affect more potent environmental effects, but can never fully negate them.)
 
[X] Dispersion, seek not negation but acclimation, one must be touched to understand (Bastion's negation may affect more potent environmental effects, but can never fully negate them.)
 
[X] Dispersion, seek not negation but acclimation, one must be touched to understand (Bastion's negation may affect more potent environmental effects, but can never fully negate them.)
 
Honestly, I'm starting to feel like we're going to see all of our social traits collapse down into one high level one that properly encompasses Ling Qi's approach to dealing with people.

It's also easier for bookkeeping.
 
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