Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Apropos of nothing, from Ghost Story chapter 17
I need to do a reread if I can find the time.
Interesting implications.Ghost Story c17 said:
I need to do a reread if I can find the time.
Strong alliances suggests there are organizations/groups to make alliances with.
Wyldfae generally arent organized.
Thats why things like the Za Guard and Dresden calling on a quarter million Little Folk in Battlegrounds drew attention.
So you have strong alliances with groups + consensus influence among Wyldfae as the manner of Court influence in the southern hemisphere. Still, thank you for the citation.
Much appreciated.
I take it to mean antagonist, which is from the perspective of Dresden.
It's also hard (and inaccurate) to deny that she can be incredibly cruel and callous, which by several standards does make her some flavor of evil.
I think it's a little more grey than that, because the fey are a complicated group that does a lot of different things which aren't easily untangled into something that conveniently fits in a box, but the good they do and the bad they do don't cancel each other out so it's worth acknowledging both.
Alchemy was described earlier as the magical version of material science right?
I wonder if we could tap into the associations of industry and pollution to "enrich" steel to make something particularly awful for fey and related creatures.
I mean, look at why they don't like it:
The wicked city is all about that, and several hells are of the highly industrialized and corruptive type thematically.On a related topic, any theories on why the fey hate 'cold iron'? There's an explanation in a novel I'll look up– something about having ties only to the earth and not the other elements. Sounds muddled, but it made sense when I read it. (Definitely must go look it up.)
Well, strictly speaking, in legend the faeries did not like iron of any sort–not just cold-forged, but /any/ iron or iron compound, including steel. Common ways to use this to your advantage included driving nails into the threshold to keep faeries from crossing it, or hanging a horseshoe above the door "for luck"–also to keep out unwelcome faeries.
The deepest reasons for Faeries disliking steel are rooted in the conflict of nature versus civilization, wilderness versus farmland. Hunter-gatherer cultures (generally speaking) did not have the same advanced metalworking capabilities of agricultural societies. Iron was used in /everything/ you needed to run a farm. You used an iron plow, iron was used in building, iron was used in harness and tack, to make tools, to make weapons–everything.
Iron is a metal uniquely symbolic of mankind (or personkind if you're the PC sort), and is used by nothing else in the same way. Many baneful creatures of folklore and legend loathed the kiss of cold iron (or cold steel) and some folklore holds that the presence of iron could keep a witch from casting baneful magic at a household or individual. Folklore from the late middle ages draws upon the image of the Crucifixion to provide substances baneful to creatures of darkness–the wood of the cross, which could be used to, among other things, stake vampires, and the nails that
pierced the Savior's hands and feet (wrists and ankles, technically) which became a bane to mischievious or malign spirits of nature.
Even in today's society, which draws further and further away from the 'natural' state at a geometric pace, iron is THE single most commonly used and available metal in the world. We use it for darn near everything, in one amount or another. Iron is the substance whose presence allowed us to develop from more primitive, dangerous cultures into larger and relatively safe ones. It's the soul of civilization, of bringing humanity's order to
the living chaos of nature.
Naturally no faerie worth the name would like it.
Jim
With some effort we might be able to refine something out of old steel from the Industrial Revolution, the latest in high tech alloys, or something else symbolically appropriate that it hurts them just to look at.
I don't want to fist fight the courts, but the fomor and wyldfey are fair game.
Edit:
Forgot to vote.
[X] uju32
Last edited:
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Although charms are really cool they were sort of the bane of Exalted as a TTRPG. It's really hard to keep track of them all in a real time setting especially when you aren't a hive mind.
Good night guys, see you tomorrow, hopefully with less of a cold and more writing.
Shifting from Winter to the chapter for a moment, we should probably step up our information game a little locally.
It was inevitable that Isabella's family would look into us, but as it stands they know more about us than we do about them.
Assigning some cyber devils to keep tabs on* the relations and associates of known vampires might be a good starting point for getting a heads up on their actions. Not a perfect one, but with our manpower issues we need as many passive systems as possible.
* That is, stalk.
It was inevitable that Isabella's family would look into us, but as it stands they know more about us than we do about them.
Assigning some cyber devils to keep tabs on* the relations and associates of known vampires might be a good starting point for getting a heads up on their actions. Not a perfect one, but with our manpower issues we need as many passive systems as possible.
* That is, stalk.
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Would an Nfected Denarian still be bound by the… rules of engagement, for lack of a better term, that other Denarians are bound to? More importantly, would the White God's hands still be bound with respect to dealing with said Denarian?
On another note, is there a limit to how much a Fae can twist the meaning of their words to suit their purposes? Can they mess with 'true from a certain point of view' stuff, or whether something technically fits within a given definition of 'truth' or 'lying'?
On another note, is there a limit to how much a Fae can twist the meaning of their words to suit their purposes? Can they mess with 'true from a certain point of view' stuff, or whether something technically fits within a given definition of 'truth' or 'lying'?
Last edited:
- Location
- Brazil
I want to do this, put Cyberdemons on police, city hall, hostpitals servers and satellite, make service agreements with as much Little Folk in the city as possible, help Lydia with the ghosts and finally put all these resources together to create a spy and information network to envy any intelligence agency.
I think we can do all this with an AP and I'll suggest this option for DP on the next turn
That feels sort of like asking if a drug lord operating in the US during the Cold War would still be subject to federal law if they secretly became a Russian spy.
A significant number of the rules the denarians have to follow are imposed on them directly, like their prisons, or on pain of divine punishment.
I think such a Denarian would just be crazy enough to open themselves to whole new levels of smite. The critical question would be how far they could get before someone noticed and the hammer dropped.
They can twist it pretty far; the rule isn't about being deceptive, it's about not knowingly speaking something you're aware is false. Anything that passes that bar works, however ridiculous it is. The really dangerous thing isn't just the technical truths though, as much as they love those.
It's the context games they play. As long as something it literally true it doesn't matter what they imply by when and how they say it.
Take Mab's conversation with Harry about Thomas' potential as a knight. It was designed to make it seem like he was a clear runner up, but I think we got WoJ that he wasn't really that good of a choice. She didn't lie at any point in her discussion of it being possible, but she did hit Dresden right in his martyr complex.
1 AP seems like too little, but this seems like the sort of thing to benefit from our new nighttime actions.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
English is a terrible language to talk to fairies in. Context is ambiguous and even if you nail everything that down the language can change after the conversation is over changing the deal after the fact. If you can manage it is much better to speak to them using dead languages.
Apart from a zero context Language which doesn't exist, choosing another language won't help. At least English is not a high context language where the same word can mean the opposite if spoken fast or slow.
Seriously though, I don't think they can change things after the fact. They have to pick a truth to mean, they just don't have to share it with you.
Oh no doubt.
Noone can reasonably dispute Mab can be cruel; just look at what she(+ Marcone + Hades ) maneuvered Nicodemus into doing to himself and his family as revenge for breaking the Accords.
Thing is, its a very human cruelty, only different in scale from shit like Dresden turning a ghoul into a living candle, or burying another up to its neck next to an anthill, or breaking the joints of a surrendered Denarian with a baseball bat.
There's also the complicating factor that even the kindliest immortals tend to hail from centuries, if not thousands of years ago.
And the mores of that time, when stealing livestock could have you stoned to death.
And punishments like impalement, crucifixion, castration, drawing and quartering, and judicial torture were all part of the legal code.
Add all the assholes inside and outside of Winter who consider forbearance to be weakness.
And Winter's internal requirement that scales need to be balanced. To quote the Leansidhe:
She looked faintly miffed. "I do not know what happened between the time you left Justin and the time you came to me."
"I see." I grinned at her. "Do you think I just give away stories for free? To one of the Sidhe?"
She tilted back her head and laughed, and her eyes twinkled. Like, literally, with little flashes of light. "You have learned much. I began to despair of it, but it seems you may have acquired wisdom enough, and in time."
"In time to be dead," I said. "But, yeah. I've worked out by now that the Sidhe don't give anything away. Or take anything for free. And after however long, I realized why that might be: because you can't."
"Indeed," she said, beaming at me. "There must be balance, sweet godchild. Always balance. Never take a thing without giving such a thing in return; never give a favor without collecting one in kind. All of reality depends on balance."
I squinted at her. "That's why you gave Bianca Amoracchius years ago. So that you could accept that knife from her. The one Mab took from you."
She leaned toward me, her eyes all but glowing with intensity and her teeth showing in a sudden, carnivorous smile. "Indeed. And such a treacherous gift it was, child. Oh, but if that deceitful creature had survived you, such a vengeance I would have wreaked that the world would have spoken of it in whispers for a thousand years."
I squinted at her. "But . . . I killed Bianca before you could balance the scales."
"Indeed, simple boy. Why else, think you, that I gifted you with the most potent powers of faerie to protect you and your companions when we battled Bianca's ultimate progenitors?"
"I thought you did it because Mab ordered you to."
"Tsk. In all of Winter, I am second in power only to Mab—which she has allowed because I have incurred with it proportionate obligation to her. She is my dearest enemy, but even I do not owe Mab so much. I helped you as much as I did, sweet child, because I owed you for collecting a portion of my due justice from Bianca," the Leanansidhe said. Her eyes grew wider, wilder. "The rest I took from the little whore's masters. Though I admit, I hadn't expected the collection to be quite so thorough."
Memories flashed in my head. Susan. An obsidian knife. I felt sick.
"I see." I grinned at her. "Do you think I just give away stories for free? To one of the Sidhe?"
She tilted back her head and laughed, and her eyes twinkled. Like, literally, with little flashes of light. "You have learned much. I began to despair of it, but it seems you may have acquired wisdom enough, and in time."
"In time to be dead," I said. "But, yeah. I've worked out by now that the Sidhe don't give anything away. Or take anything for free. And after however long, I realized why that might be: because you can't."
"Indeed," she said, beaming at me. "There must be balance, sweet godchild. Always balance. Never take a thing without giving such a thing in return; never give a favor without collecting one in kind. All of reality depends on balance."
I squinted at her. "That's why you gave Bianca Amoracchius years ago. So that you could accept that knife from her. The one Mab took from you."
She leaned toward me, her eyes all but glowing with intensity and her teeth showing in a sudden, carnivorous smile. "Indeed. And such a treacherous gift it was, child. Oh, but if that deceitful creature had survived you, such a vengeance I would have wreaked that the world would have spoken of it in whispers for a thousand years."
I squinted at her. "But . . . I killed Bianca before you could balance the scales."
"Indeed, simple boy. Why else, think you, that I gifted you with the most potent powers of faerie to protect you and your companions when we battled Bianca's ultimate progenitors?"
"I thought you did it because Mab ordered you to."
"Tsk. In all of Winter, I am second in power only to Mab—which she has allowed because I have incurred with it proportionate obligation to her. She is my dearest enemy, but even I do not owe Mab so much. I helped you as much as I did, sweet child, because I owed you for collecting a portion of my due justice from Bianca," the Leanansidhe said. Her eyes grew wider, wilder. "The rest I took from the little whore's masters. Though I admit, I hadn't expected the collection to be quite so thorough."
Memories flashed in my head. Susan. An obsidian knife. I felt sick.
Can we? Probably.The wicked city is all about that, and several hells are of the highly industrialized and corruptive type thematically.
With some effort we might be able to refine something out of old steel from the Industrial Revolution, the latest in high tech alloys, or something else symbolically appropriate that it hurts them just to look at.
I don't want to fist fight the courts, but the fomor and wyldfey are fair game.
Is it likely to be worth the trouble? Much more questionable. The Fomor do number a lot of modified human and animal servitors in their ranks who arent any more vulnerable to iron than anything else.
And frankly, if plain old iron works, more complex countermeasures are probably not worth the trouble.
EDIT
Speaking of servitors, this is how they are described in Ghost Story
Sounds very much like Pentex ferectoi, grouped into First Teams.GS c27 said:
I get the impression Butcher may well have been a World of Darkness player, or hung out with some.
We need a sitdown with Ms Romany.
I have doubts about whether its even possible for Nemesis to Nfect a Angel, Fallen or otherwise.
Else the Denarian coins would have been priority targets for Nemesis for the last two millenia.
And Im reasonably sure that Fallen dont like to share.
You're unlikely to have a Denarian who is timesharing an Outsider and a Fallen Angel.
It doesnt preclude the Denarian and his Fallen doing deals with Outsiders, mind.
But thats a question that hasnt been settled one way or the other. We know a Denarian was involved in the attack on Arctis Tor because Dresden smelt Hellfire, but that could just as easily been another convoluted scheme.
Was it?
I agree that Thomas would have been a distant consolation prize, but I do believe he was on the list of potential candidates if Dresden got himself killed. Dude's both a vampire magic user and one of the strongest Whites alive, just from his performance against the superghouls and a Denarian in warform.
I'm reasonably sure Mab would have found a use for him.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
sourCe Code ComplianCe protoCol and other charms like it make me wonder just how much damage can be done to someone using a phone conversation.
Also if Green Sun Nimbus Flare can be triggered off any of them.
Also if Green Sun Nimbus Flare can be triggered off any of them.
Depends on exactly what we can do with it. Stronger entities are more tolerant of it, and are aware of that fact. Even when they aren't their respective banes are a constant issue for them and an intermittent tool for their enemies. It makes sense for them to have coping strategies and tools for addressing the problem that wouldn't account for a novel super poison.
As to their servitors; I wouldn't be surprised if they shared weaknesses as they go deeper into the Fomor system. That's a pretty common complication of those sort of "gifts".
Not out of the blue or while we're dealing with other stuff. Knowing what her group's membership looks like and what they're doing is important context for handling a meeting like that.
Could have found a use? Certainly. Would have found him a worthwhile knight specifically? Probably not.
It's worth noting that white vamps aren't exactly new. If she was satisfied with their power and the loophole in their mortality for the purposes of the mantle then she could have picked one by now. Thomas is good, but he isn't better than every white court born anywhere Winter has access to for the last few centuries.
We also know that if she wanted to take the demon out and keep the mortal it would probably screw him over independent of the loss of power, making him even more of an investment to get functional.
I don't doubt he was on the list, but I figure he was a lot lower than she implied to Harry and that there were a few backups in between the two of them on it.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Sort of the leading votes are so close to each other that the only difference seems to be the wording.
- Location
- Germany
I would suspect that you can infect Denarians, as in the Coinbearers, but to taint the actual demon is beyond Nemesis.
At best you could propably get a corrupted subsoul like Lash, which might be a fun idea for a future antagonist.
OK, I'm feeling much better, lets get this show on the road.
Arc 6 Post 7: Sins of the Father
Sins of the Father
2nd of October 2006 A.D.
What are you on about? you wonder, half-amused half-annoyed, then on the heels of that a more serious question. If I let you out of my sight what will you do? There's an odd tugging at the corner of your eyes, the colors of the busy corridor bleeding into shadow, the voices of the students mingling in strange harmonies. What's the worst she could do? As the moment stretches like a thread of black silk Usum helpfully informs you: "The future is in flux, the past is easier by far to grasp, especially those parts of it that leave a stain upon the soul."
Before you can fully grasp the implications you feel yourself tipping into Bela's eyes, following the scent of sin like a hound on a trail. Though this too is divination of a sort it could not be more different from the detached perspective of the Crown. It is almost as though you are Isabela Syliga and yet not, a shadowy parasite dragging at her heels.
Lost 2 Essence and 1 Willpower -> Now at 10/12 and 8/9
***
"Chicken, come on all you have to do is get in there, take a look that stupid book he's been obsessing so long about, I have more than enough stories from the holls to distract father," a far younger Isabela, maybe seven years old or so was telling a faintly gangling looking boy maybe two years her senior, the conspiratorial tone speaking of friendship in spite of, or maybe because of the boy's long suffering look.
Eric, his name was Eric, the name unfolds before your sight.
"I'll distract him and you sneak in," the boy shoots back.
"What with your scintillating charm and the latest kitchen gossip," Bela shoots back. "Come on you owe me... please." It's the 'please' that does it.
A mute and silent spectator, you watch as Isabela does indeed distract her father with stories of summer camp, recognizing a few of the names along the way, this was no ordinary wilderness camp, but a chance for the children of the White Court to meet with one another to network and measure each other up.
Alas Eric's stealth is not enough to escape vampiric senses, not even from across the hall. He had barely pushed open the door of the study when Armando Syliga's head snaps in that direction and in a voice a cobra might use before it strikes he hisses. "Stop." Rather than fury his lips curl in annoyance and even when his daughter attempts to explain that she had put the boy up to it he simply shakes his head.
"Come!" he snaps to the still enthralled Eric... and Isabela would never see him again.
It is only a week later after increasingly insistent questioning the elder vampire finally explains himself, his tone still holding that faint edge of annoyance. "I liquidated him. A ghoul-blood, not even awakened, willing to flaunt such simple rules with only minor provocation would have been much more trouble than he's worth to allow to come into his powers."
The vision with the look of utter horror frozen on the child's face.
***
"Excuse me a moment, I have to go to the bathroom," you say, sounding hollow to your own ears, though probably not to Izzy or the much more cheerful seeming Bela of the present.
"Jesus Christ," you mutter, splashing some water onto your face. Hopefully the Lord will understand taking His name in vain after seeing that. Talk about making monsters. Yet the more you think about it the more sense what you have seen of Bela makes sense in that context. She's sorry she did not take the risk herself so she became a risk taker and she avoids making friends weaker than her father.
In light of that your thought to, among other things, get her to explain the unseen world to Izzy and Alec could be a good idea... or a very bad one if she takes it as some kind of twisted test, of which you now suspect she has been through way too many. On the other hand it's not like you can explain 'hey I know what the thing you are most ashamed of in your life and it really wasn't your fault.'
Do you change anything in your approach in light of what you just discovered?
[] Yes
-[] Write in what
[] No, previous vote stands
OOC: Naked Wicked Souls reveals the greatest sources of shame not any sort of generally understood sin, so you can get results like this. I do not generally like doing re-votes like this, but you guys just got a hell of an insight into her motivations.
Last edited:
GSNF does specify striking, so my bet is that it wouldn't apply to SCCP since the damage from that is a consequence of enforced comprehension rather than a direct attack.
It would be interesting to mix with this though:
I don't think the bit about being forced to speak in the same language would apply, but the enforced understanding could still do damage since it keys off of hearing her and not being in her presence. Not exactly a boost to our single target damage, but bashing to everyone in a radius potentially measured in miles is something pretty significant.
Honestly I'm more interested in potential implications and applications outside of the literal text of the charm than the damage it does.
I doubt elder beings who could feasibly know the language get hurt the same way, so being able to talk to them like that could make them take us a lot more seriously. If we could do it without the enforcement aspect it'd be better for this, but we could still make it work.
Depending on how inherently magical the language is we might also be able to exploit it in further when crafting or working other sorts of magic. Just knowing how to describe things at that level might give insights on how to best manipulate them.
It might also be a source of lore too. Consider how important names are in the DF. For immortals, especially the more important ones, they're a definition of what they are and changing them changes the being; see Uriel's reaction to Dresden trying to give him a nickname.
Then we have the impact of invoking Perfected Principle of Consumption.
The source code language of the universe could contain direct references to the names and natures of the beings that built or maintain it, because from the perspective of those entities forces like gravity are somewhere between part of a specific guy's biology and a role they fill in their day job.
We might be able to replace all the shell games we've been playing with for the single name we have in old realm with a single one dot charm.