Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Not all hits involve hiring an outside party.

A hit is a contract murder, by definition it is about hiring an outside party, a premeditated murder to cover a conspiracy that you do yourself is not a hit, it's a premeditated murder to cover a conspiracy.

That waters the definition down so much its essentially worthless.

That's because I consider the concept of rationality as a farce that people pretends exist to sleep at night, it doesn't exists to me.

Like I've said previously, most people cannot actually afford to up and resign their jobs willy nilly, and in the case of an agent, abandon the pension they get at twenty years of service. And resignation while an investigation is ongoing is a helluva bad look.

She's not going to care about the bad look if she is already suicidal, and the fact that they were trying to make her death a suicide means they thought that it was plausible enough.
 
I think that depends on who l killed him precisely and what their affiliations are.

My assumption so far has been that Greene was killed by Holt's little goth book club, either specifically because his antagonism with Dresden made him a good tool for a frame job or because he was involved with them/one of their cut outs and they already had some other reasons to off him. Likely some combination of both if either is valid.

If he was killed by a berserker, who has no obvious physical mutations even if they're slightly superhuman, with a history of violent crime then they have no reason to hide the killer. Arresting them might not be in the cards, but naming a name and having them killed resisting arrest would be.

A vampire with court backing, a demon summoned by an unknown sorcerer, or one of the stranger things running around the mortal world could get swept under the rug though.

My bet is that even if the investigation is officially stalled that they'll continue under the table if they can.

Daedalus is still FBI, so a significant number of their personnel should be highly unwilling to let the killing of someone from their organization go even if they work for a different subgroup.

What surprises me about this on further reflection is that Sarah Greene was left without protection, and apparently wasn't watched closely enough to notice when she started poking around lethal supernatural waters.
They don't have infinite resources, but I'd have expected something.
^^^
Helen Beckitt and her dead husband went to jail as accomplices in trafficking the occult drug Three Eye. The sorcerer Leonid Kravos died in jail after Dresden and Michael helped SI arrest him for among other things, drugs. Murphy arrested Binder in Turn Coat, just pulled him in for interrogation.

The justice system isnt averse to putting supernaturals in jail if they can pin something on them and they cant run fast enough.
And the FBI in particular has a history of pursuing cases for decades.

My working assumption is that Sarah Greene wasnt poking lethal supernatural waters; she was either previously involved, or her husband was and she inherited his records. The "she's an investigative superstar who suddenly turned up damning information while working alone in the last <2 months" hypothesis doesnt seem credible IMO.

There's a reason it usually takes months or years and teams of people for any sort of progress in complex investigations involving conspiracies. And she doesnt have Dresden's advantages.
A hit is a contract murder, by definition it is about hiring an outside party, a premeditated murder to cover a conspiracy that you do yourself is not a hit, it's a premeditated murder to cover a conspiracy.
No it isnt.
Citations as follows:
www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of HIT

to reach with or as if with a sudden blow; to come in quick forceful contact with; to strike (something, such as a ball) with an object (such as a bat, club, or racket) so as to impart or redirect motion… See the full definition
Merriam-Webster said:
6​
:
a premeditated murder committed especially by a member of a crime syndicate (see SYNDICATE entry 1 sense 3c)
a hit on a rival gang leader
dictionary.cambridge.org

hit

1. to move your hand or an object onto the surface of something so that it…
Cambridge said:

hit noun [C] (ATTACK)

mainly US slang
an act of murder:
He was the victim of a mafia hit.

www.dictionary.com

Definition of hit | Dictionary.com

Hit definition, to deal a blow or stroke to: Hit the nail with the hammer. See more.
Dictionary dot com said:
Slang. a killing, murder, or assassination, especially one carried out by criminal prearrangements.
Note the constants.
Murder, usually premeditated. No mention of a requirement for hiring an outside party.

That's because I consider the concept of rationality as a farce that people pretends exist to sleep at night, it doesn't exists to me.
Yeah well.
Thank you for explaining your frame of reference. For most otner people, rationality has a working definition.

She's not going to care about the bad look if she is already suicidal, and the fact that they were trying to make her death a suicide means they thought that it was plausible enough.
There is zero evidence of her being suicidal.
Noone has made the claim in-story, nor is there textual evidence of it.

Their staging her suicide is not evidence of her being suicidal.
Just that they thought it was a workable cover story they could plant supporting evidence for.
 
That's because I consider the concept of rationality as a farce that people pretends exist to sleep at night, it doesn't exists to me.
What exactly do you mean when you say this? Rationality as a term is as frequently abused as quantum or nano machines in media, but that doesn't necessarily translate well to the actual definitions or uses outside of those areas.

Full borderline sociopathic Vulcan thought processes are ridiculous, but "rationality" as a concept encompasses a lot of different ideas and components of how people interact with the world. Most of which are considerably less silly.

At the most basic level it's just the ability to logically reason through problems, in part using axioms that as by consensus considered sane.

People aren't perfectly rational, but the ability to logically reason and restrain impulse is a critical part of the human condition. You can see it succeed in as many places as you can see it fail, and suggesting it doesn't exist is a very reductive way to view how people work.

It's also an argument that kind of nulls the entire discussion. "Everyone with a body is so irrational that they could do anything" is a something that punctures any ability to predict behavior. Even the position you seem to be advancing can be undermined that way, because being irrational doesn't mean someone will be irrational in a specific way.

But this is getting too far into philosophy. Maybe a better way to talk about this is in terms of consistency.

Since the vampire isn't a gibbering wreck I feel safe assuming that he has some consistent internal measure for how to attempt to reason through problems, even if it isn't necessarily reflective of reality and all his drives aren't purely cold blooded cost calculations.

Since he's still alive I further feel comfortable assuming it's at minimum a model of reality capable of a reasonable degree of risk management. Which seems borne out by the way this crime would have gone smoothly if it wasn't for a sudden infernal interrupt.

My working assumption is that Sarah Greene wasnt poking lethal supernatural waters; she was either previously involved, or her husband was and she inherited his records. The "she's an investigative superstar who suddenly turned up damning information while working alone in the last <2 months" hypothesis doesnt seem credible IMO.
That's a fair point, my thought on the poking was essentially related to the idea of her going through her husband's records and digging into what he was doing without initially having a clear idea of what was going on.
 
Other constant is being carried out by a gang, your definition is just as false as mine, the definition definitely isn't about covering conspiracies.
1) For one thing, gang is not a constant in a hit.
Read the definitions again.

2) For the second, citation:
dictionary.cambridge.org

conspiracy

1. the activity of secretly planning with other people to do something bad or…
conspiracy
noun [ C/U ]

US/kənˈspɪr·ə·si/

a secret plan made by two or more people to do something bad, illegal, or against someone's wishes:
[ C ] I think there was a conspiracy to keep me off the committee.
A gang engaged in criminal activity is a criminal conspiracy.
Just ask the Feds.
 
Last edited:
Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Jan 21, 2023 at 12:22 PM, finished with 107 posts and 16 votes.

  • [X] Offer the girl a chance to serve you in exchange for taming her Hunger
    -[X] Leadership excellency
    -[X] STUNT: With nary a sound, the corona of green flames expands around you, the banner of your soul made manifest. The flames gently caress the young vampiress. You speak, and you voice echoes, reverbating across the shadows of room: "You haven't yet killed anyone, Sitha, and so I shall grant you a choice. Bend the knee to me now, and your Hunger will abate, for none shall touch those that swear to follow me. Or feed on your elder - he shall survive it, this I guarantee. The woman, however, is not for you"
    [X] Plan Needful Things
    -[X] Take the girl into service to give her the benefits of Mercy in Servitude in suppressing her Hunger
    -[X] Empathy excellency
    -[X]Cyberdevils begin to datacrawl social media for Skavis vampire IDs based on pictures. Keyword: Sitha.
    -[X] STUNT: "Agent Greene's life" you put emphasis on the word agent "is not yours to dispose of. Not because of a failure to keep your secrets." Your phone vibrates in your pocket just then, and you raise it to your ear with a quick "Yes?" as you continue to watch the room. "Three seconds Mistress." says Clippy's distinctive tones, then you hear the tone of a dropped line. You wait a heartbeat, then a second, and terminate the call, returning the handset to a front pocket, and the full weight of your attention to the room's occupants, including the girl now sitting against the wall, making sounds of pain. "I suppose I shouldnt let the fledgeling suffer....Child.Sitha. Attend me,"you bark. As she turns her distressed face to you, your voice softens as you squat in mid-air."Your....inheritance, such as it is, awakens. Untended, it will kill you, as your elder will confirm. And then hatch like something out of an Aliens movie to stalk the world of men. So I offer you an alternative."
    [X] Offer the girl a chance to serve you in exchange for taming her Hunger
    -[X] Empathy excellency
    -[X] STUNT: You speak, and you voice echoes, reverbating across the shadows of room: "You haven't yet killed anyone, Sitha, and so I shall grant you a choice.Listen carefully. The Hunger in your soul is awake, and not yet sated. Should you fail to do so, it'll consume you, and then I will have to put it down. You have two ways to stop this gruesome fate from passing. Bend the knee to me now, and your Hunger will abate, for none shall touch those that swear to follow me. Or feed on your elder - he shall survive it, this I guarantee. The woman, however, is not for you. Think now, and don't be hasty - I will hold your doom at abeyance while you do; this is the proof my offer is genuine"
    [X] Ask the elder vampire to feed the fledgling while you get help for Sarah Greene
    [X] Sympathy from a Devil
    -[X] Attempt to use MiS to save the teenager
    -[X] Activate empathy excellency
    -[X] Stunt: After a moment's pause Molly gives the slightest of nods. "This one is not for you, but I suppose I should save the child's life after having interrupted her quickening" she says, in an almost uncomfortably conversational tone.
    --[X] Turning to the unfortunate fledging, Molly pins her eyes in place beneath her gaze "If you wish to live you will listen carefully and do what you are told. Understand?" Pausing for a timid nod, she continues.
    --[X] "Get up, and step outside with me. We will see about settling your partner's furor"
    --[X] Turning back to the elder vampire, a hint of something cold and hungry seeps back into her voice "You will save your victim's life, and we will speak about how this shall proceed, before this situation grows unpleasant " the unspoken 'for you' hanging thick in the air.
    -[X] Stand outside in the rain with the kid, where Molly can clearly see what passes in the house, and give her basic orders based on preparing to meditate. Question her on what exactly she knows about herself and what happened here.
    —[X] Once it seems like her distress has passed use occult to fake an arcane gesture, poke her on the forehead, and order her back inside.


Still tied.
 
People aren't perfectly rational, but the ability to logically reason and restrain impulse is a critical part of the human condition. You can see it succeed in as many places as you can see it fail, and suggesting it doesn't exist is a very reductive way to view how people work.

The problem I have is about that part, I have no problems about the fact that we can have logical reasoning and restrain impulses, but people tends to use *rational* to describe the borderline vulcan often enough that I am soured on the term, and prefer to avoid it, someone is logical, thought out his answers, or others things like that, but not *rational*, because it implies a response independent of emotions and the way our brains works means that this is about as plausible as someone not using their brain to think.

It's also an argument that kind of nulls the entire discussion. "Everyone with a body is so irrational that they could do anything" is a something that punctures any ability to predict behavior. Even the position you seem to be advancing can be undermined that way, because being irrational doesn't mean someone will be irrational in a specific way.

I was annoyed and didn't present myself clearly enough, it isn't *everyone is so irrational they could do anything* it's *trying to pretend that emotions can be avoided in how we interact with the world is not realistic, even when someone is acting in a calm manner*.

Someone calming themself and thinking before acting is not removing emotions from the equations, they're allowing them to go past the immediate ones and using more long terms ones to alleviate them.

A gang is a criminal conspiracy.
Just ask the Feds.

A gang don't always order a hit to cover their existence though, or even always to protect it, so, no, your definition still doesn't work.
 
A gang don't always order a hit to cover their existence though, or even always to protect it, so, no, your definition still doesn't work.
Im not even sure what point you are trying to make any longer.

To recap? I defined hits as premeditated murders in pursuit of a conspiracy.Criminal or otherwise.
You said that hits always involve outside contractors, and brought in the whole idea of a gang.Upon which I said you were mistaken about outside contractors, and pointed out that gang is just one subtype of criminal conspiracy.

I dont see why you apparently think that I said gangs order hits to cover up their existence.
Or that anyone involved in the current incident is a gang,
 
Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Jan 21, 2023 at 12:22 PM, finished with 107 posts and 16 votes.

  • [X] Offer the girl a chance to serve you in exchange for taming her Hunger
    -[X] Leadership excellency
    -[X] STUNT: With nary a sound, the corona of green flames expands around you, the banner of your soul made manifest. The flames gently caress the young vampiress. You speak, and you voice echoes, reverbating across the shadows of room: "You haven't yet killed anyone, Sitha, and so I shall grant you a choice. Bend the knee to me now, and your Hunger will abate, for none shall touch those that swear to follow me. Or feed on your elder - he shall survive it, this I guarantee. The woman, however, is not for you"
    [X] Plan Needful Things
    -[X] Take the girl into service to give her the benefits of Mercy in Servitude in suppressing her Hunger
    -[X] Empathy excellency
    -[X]Cyberdevils begin to datacrawl social media for Skavis vampire IDs based on pictures. Keyword: Sitha.
    -[X] STUNT: "Agent Greene's life" you put emphasis on the word agent "is not yours to dispose of. Not because of a failure to keep your secrets." Your phone vibrates in your pocket just then, and you raise it to your ear with a quick "Yes?" as you continue to watch the room. "Three seconds Mistress." says Clippy's distinctive tones, then you hear the tone of a dropped line. You wait a heartbeat, then a second, and terminate the call, returning the handset to a front pocket, and the full weight of your attention to the room's occupants, including the girl now sitting against the wall, making sounds of pain. "I suppose I shouldnt let the fledgeling suffer....Child.Sitha. Attend me,"you bark. As she turns her distressed face to you, your voice softens as you squat in mid-air."Your....inheritance, such as it is, awakens. Untended, it will kill you, as your elder will confirm. And then hatch like something out of an Aliens movie to stalk the world of men. So I offer you an alternative."
    [X] Offer the girl a chance to serve you in exchange for taming her Hunger
    -[X] Empathy excellency
    -[X] STUNT: You speak, and you voice echoes, reverbating across the shadows of room: "You haven't yet killed anyone, Sitha, and so I shall grant you a choice.Listen carefully. The Hunger in your soul is awake, and not yet sated. Should you fail to do so, it'll consume you, and then I will have to put it down. You have two ways to stop this gruesome fate from passing. Bend the knee to me now, and your Hunger will abate, for none shall touch those that swear to follow me. Or feed on your elder - he shall survive it, this I guarantee. The woman, however, is not for you. Think now, and don't be hasty - I will hold your doom at abeyance while you do; this is the proof my offer is genuine"
    [X] Ask the elder vampire to feed the fledgling while you get help for Sarah Greene
    [X] Sympathy from a Devil
    -[X] Attempt to use MiS to save the teenager
    -[X] Activate empathy excellency
    -[X] Stunt: After a moment's pause Molly gives the slightest of nods. "This one is not for you, but I suppose I should save the child's life after having interrupted her quickening" she says, in an almost uncomfortably conversational tone.
    --[X] Turning to the unfortunate fledging, Molly pins her eyes in place beneath her gaze "If you wish to live you will listen carefully and do what you are told. Understand?" Pausing for a timid nod, she continues.
    --[X] "Get up, and step outside with me. We will see about settling your partner's furor"
    --[X] Turning back to the elder vampire, a hint of something cold and hungry seeps back into her voice "You will save your victim's life, and we will speak about how this shall proceed, before this situation grows unpleasant " the unspoken 'for you' hanging thick in the air.
    -[X] Stand outside in the rain with the kid, where Molly can clearly see what passes in the house, and give her basic orders based on preparing to meditate. Question her on what exactly she knows about herself and what happened here.
    —[X] Once it seems like her distress has passed use occult to fake an arcane gesture, poke her on the forehead, and order her back inside.


Still tied.
The plan that calls for the use of our Leadership Excellency isn't even valid, is it? At least I don't think Leadership could actually apply in this situation.
 
With the votes being as close as they are I'm going to leave it until tomorrow to see how Molly manages to handle the despair vampires.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Jan 21, 2023 at 2:53 PM, finished with 111 posts and 16 votes.

  • [X] Offer the girl a chance to serve you in exchange for taming her Hunger
    -[X] Empathy excellency
    -[X] STUNT: You speak, and you voice echoes, reverbating across the shadows of room: "You haven't yet killed anyone, Sitha, and so I shall grant you a choice.Listen carefully. The Hunger in your soul is awake, and not yet sated. Should you fail to do so, it'll consume you, and then I will have to put it down. You have two ways to stop this gruesome fate from passing. Bend the knee to me now, and your Hunger will abate, for none shall touch those that swear to follow me. Or feed on your elder - he shall survive it, this I guarantee. The woman, however, is not for you. Think now, and don't be hasty - I will hold your doom at abeyance while you do; this is the proof my offer is genuine"
    [X] Offer the girl a chance to serve you in exchange for taming her Hunger
    -[X] Leadership excellency
    -[X] STUNT: With nary a sound, the corona of green flames expands around you, the banner of your soul made manifest. The flames gently caress the young vampiress. You speak, and you voice echoes, reverbating across the shadows of room: "You haven't yet killed anyone, Sitha, and so I shall grant you a choice. Bend the knee to me now, and your Hunger will abate, for none shall touch those that swear to follow me. Or feed on your elder - he shall survive it, this I guarantee. The woman, however, is not for you"
    [X] Plan Needful Things
    -[X] Take the girl into service to give her the benefits of Mercy in Servitude in suppressing her Hunger
    -[X] Empathy excellency
    -[X]Cyberdevils begin to datacrawl social media for Skavis vampire IDs based on pictures. Keyword: Sitha.
    -[X] STUNT: "Agent Greene's life" you put emphasis on the word agent "is not yours to dispose of. Not because of a failure to keep your secrets." Your phone vibrates in your pocket just then, and you raise it to your ear with a quick "Yes?" as you continue to watch the room. "Three seconds Mistress." says Clippy's distinctive tones, then you hear the tone of a dropped line. You wait a heartbeat, then a second, and terminate the call, returning the handset to a front pocket, and the full weight of your attention to the room's occupants, including the girl now sitting against the wall, making sounds of pain. "I suppose I shouldnt let the fledgeling suffer....Child.Sitha. Attend me,"you bark. As she turns her distressed face to you, your voice softens as you squat in mid-air."Your....inheritance, such as it is, awakens. Untended, it will kill you, as your elder will confirm. And then hatch like something out of an Aliens movie to stalk the world of men. So I offer you an alternative."
    [X] Ask the elder vampire to feed the fledgling while you get help for Sarah Greene
    [X] Sympathy from a Devil
    -[X] Attempt to use MiS to save the teenager
    -[X] Activate empathy excellency
    -[X] Stunt: After a moment's pause Molly gives the slightest of nods. "This one is not for you, but I suppose I should save the child's life after having interrupted her quickening" she says, in an almost uncomfortably conversational tone.
    --[X] Turning to the unfortunate fledging, Molly pins her eyes in place beneath her gaze "If you wish to live you will listen carefully and do what you are told. Understand?" Pausing for a timid nod, she continues.
    --[X] "Get up, and step outside with me. We will see about settling your partner's furor"
    --[X] Turning back to the elder vampire, a hint of something cold and hungry seeps back into her voice "You will save your victim's life, and we will speak about how this shall proceed, before this situation grows unpleasant " the unspoken 'for you' hanging thick in the air.
    -[X] Stand outside in the rain with the kid, where Molly can clearly see what passes in the house, and give her basic orders based on preparing to meditate. Question her on what exactly she knows about herself and what happened here.
    —[X] Once it seems like her distress has passed use occult to fake an arcane gesture, poke her on the forehead, and order her back inside.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Jan 22, 2023 at 3:53 AM, finished with 116 posts and 16 votes.

  • [X] Offer the girl a chance to serve you in exchange for taming her Hunger
    -[X] Empathy excellency
    -[X] STUNT: You speak, and you voice echoes, reverbating across the shadows of room: "You haven't yet killed anyone, Sitha, and so I shall grant you a choice.Listen carefully. The Hunger in your soul is awake, and not yet sated. Should you fail to do so, it'll consume you, and then I will have to put it down. You have two ways to stop this gruesome fate from passing. Bend the knee to me now, and your Hunger will abate, for none shall touch those that swear to follow me. Or feed on your elder - he shall survive it, this I guarantee. The woman, however, is not for you. Think now, and don't be hasty - I will hold your doom at abeyance while you do; this is the proof my offer is genuine"
    [X] Offer the girl a chance to serve you in exchange for taming her Hunger
    -[X] Leadership excellency
    -[X] STUNT: With nary a sound, the corona of green flames expands around you, the banner of your soul made manifest. The flames gently caress the young vampiress. You speak, and you voice echoes, reverbating across the shadows of room: "You haven't yet killed anyone, Sitha, and so I shall grant you a choice. Bend the knee to me now, and your Hunger will abate, for none shall touch those that swear to follow me. Or feed on your elder - he shall survive it, this I guarantee. The woman, however, is not for you"
    [X] Plan Needful Things
    -[X] Take the girl into service to give her the benefits of Mercy in Servitude in suppressing her Hunger
    -[X] Empathy excellency
    -[X]Cyberdevils begin to datacrawl social media for Skavis vampire IDs based on pictures. Keyword: Sitha.
    -[X] STUNT: "Agent Greene's life" you put emphasis on the word agent "is not yours to dispose of. Not because of a failure to keep your secrets." Your phone vibrates in your pocket just then, and you raise it to your ear with a quick "Yes?" as you continue to watch the room. "Three seconds Mistress." says Clippy's distinctive tones, then you hear the tone of a dropped line. You wait a heartbeat, then a second, and terminate the call, returning the handset to a front pocket, and the full weight of your attention to the room's occupants, including the girl now sitting against the wall, making sounds of pain. "I suppose I shouldnt let the fledgeling suffer....Child.Sitha. Attend me,"you bark. As she turns her distressed face to you, your voice softens as you squat in mid-air."Your....inheritance, such as it is, awakens. Untended, it will kill you, as your elder will confirm. And then hatch like something out of an Aliens movie to stalk the world of men. So I offer you an alternative."
    [X] Ask the elder vampire to feed the fledgling while you get help for Sarah Greene
    [X] Sympathy from a Devil
    -[X] Attempt to use MiS to save the teenager
    -[X] Activate empathy excellency
    -[X] Stunt: After a moment's pause Molly gives the slightest of nods. "This one is not for you, but I suppose I should save the child's life after having interrupted her quickening" she says, in an almost uncomfortably conversational tone.
    --[X] Turning to the unfortunate fledging, Molly pins her eyes in place beneath her gaze "If you wish to live you will listen carefully and do what you are told. Understand?" Pausing for a timid nod, she continues.
    --[X] "Get up, and step outside with me. We will see about settling your partner's furor"
    --[X] Turning back to the elder vampire, a hint of something cold and hungry seeps back into her voice "You will save your victim's life, and we will speak about how this shall proceed, before this situation grows unpleasant " the unspoken 'for you' hanging thick in the air.
    -[X] Stand outside in the rain with the kid, where Molly can clearly see what passes in the house, and give her basic orders based on preparing to meditate. Question her on what exactly she knows about herself and what happened here.
    —[X] Once it seems like her distress has passed use occult to fake an arcane gesture, poke her on the forehead, and order her back inside.
 
Arc 5 Post 16: A Cure and a Quandary
A Cure and a Quandary

8th of September 2006 A.D.

You speak, and you voice echoes, reverberating across the shadows of room: "You haven't yet killed anyone, Sitha, and so I shall grant you a choice. Listen carefully. The Hunger in your soul is awake, and not yet sated. Should you fail to do so, it'll consume you, and then I will have to put it down. You have two ways to stop this gruesome fate from passing. Bend the knee to me now, and your Hunger will abate, for none shall touch those that swear to follow me. Or feed on your elder - he shall survive it, this I guarantee. The woman, however, is not for you...."

"Why, she's done for already?" the girl asks, her Hunger giving feral edge to the words. "Be kinder to finish than leave her like that."

She is, you realize, repeating a mantra, something she had been taught, perhaps since childhood. It makes a cruel sort of sense when you think about it, the Skavis are human enough to need humane rationalization.

"She is in possession of too much incriminating information which incriminates one of the athumi of the Court, it is sealed within the machine-mind..."

"I know what a computer is," you snap. "She is dying, to delay is to seek to frustrate my will." Turning back to the girl you offer simply: "Choose."

"Can... can she do it zio?"

"The Elders of the Jade Court have many insights of abnegation, though I have never heard of them offering it to others, certainly not other- cilth."

Having hung around Lydia as much as you have you are pretty sure the 'zio' is something Italian, but the old man is speaking another tongue, filled with sharp-edged consonants and cut off exhalations. Etruscan, the formal tongue of the White Court, the mark of highest standing among them. How old is the old man to seem so ancient among those who value beauty and the illusion of youth so highly? Suddenly you feel a lot less confident in the fight you'd get into if things go poorly.

"So like..." Sitha sinks in a practiced courtesy. Looks as weird in pants as you'd expect it to, but it does the job, intent is all that matters

You frown at her, as though it costs some mental effort to tame her newly awoken hunger, but from the way the elder's pale cheek twitches in surprise you suspect the effort had been wasted, he had seen... something surprising in your manner.

At least it does not seem to be 'shoot now' surprising. Instead he nods slowly to himself before turning towards Sarah Greene: "I shall lend her the strength to endure."

The best idea you had was to call an ambulance which would come with all sorts of inconvenient questions so you cautiously agree, all too aware that you are holding Sitha hostage against his conduct. You watch as he lays his hands her temples chanting in that tongue which was old when Rome was new, as the veins on his hands start to glow brighter and brighter, quicksilver radiance until it spills all at once over mortal flesh racing through her veins to undo the harm which had been forced upon her. Thus is a demon of unending want forced into a moment's grudging charity

Elder Discipline Revealed: The Illness Unveiled

Mark that up another notch on the scary-vamp-o-meter Usum, you think glibness not quite enough to mask the very real concern. If he can make his demon heal random mortals you do not want to know how tough this guy is in a fight.

"She will sleep now, remembering little of what was done this night, little good though it might do her," the elder vampire notes clinically. "She knows too much and is too determined to make it known. So it is with mortal servants carelessly plucked."

"What do you mean?" You would like to think he is lying but you had given him no reason to believe you might be sympathetic to mortals for their own sake, having not denied his assumption that you are an elder of the Wan Kuei.

"Agent Greene is part of FBI Crimes Against Children and Human Trafficking Prosecution Unit." He stops, as though to see if you are confussed by the nomenclature. When you show no sign of it he adds. "She also used to be the eyes and ears of House Raith within the unit until her husband was killed in a rather messy attempt by parties unknown to frame the local wizard. Given that the attempt involved clear signs of sorcerous tampering to anyone who knew to look for it, including a shape-shifter appearing on camera she came to believe that her handlers among House Raith would have answers. When they refused to help her obtain revenge she came to suspect them. Given her previous position and a skill for unavailing conspiracies far above what Madrigal Raith assumed she possessed..."

Again he pauses, this time as though to assess reaction to a name that had just 'slipped out' in his frustration and you can believe that as much as the bridge seller in Brooklyn.

"She intended to deliver the information to a group within the FBI which knows enough to believe her, yet not enough to have learned discretion. While I too would prefer a less blunt solution than simply killing Agent Greene she has known too much for too long to simply cloud her memories and in any case I do not possess enough of an understanding of the machine-minds..."

"Just call it a computer zio," Sitha huffs, only seeming to hold herself back from rolling her eyes by supreme effort.

"From the Latin putare," he counters serenely. "I could call it a knowledge pruning machine if you prefer."

"Can you not simply compel her not to speak?" you interject before things can get any more surreal... and then you realize you had just suggested mind control and feel like shit.

"Given the strength of her conviction that would be... unreliable," the elder says, seeming to balance the word gingerly on his tongue.

But, you realize, I could wipe all of Sarah Greene's evidence against the Raiths off her devices and any off-site storage. Do I want to protect White Court human trafficking?

On the other hand it's not like you can think of another bloodless way out of this. You could probably convince these two to leave now, but you cannot exactly follow Agent Greene around town to play bodyguard 24/7 and it's not like she was an innocent if it's true that she worked with the White Court to cover up their crimes until she came to believe they killed her husband.

She's not the main victim though.

What do you do?

[] Offer to wipe off the evidence of Raith crimes off all of Agent Green's devices
-[] Sincerely
-[]... and keep a copy (Roll opposed Charisma+Subterfuge vs the Elder's Auspex ???)

[] Let the two vampires go, odds are they will try again, but maybe Agent Greene will get the evidence to Dedalus before she is killed
-[] Wash your hands of the matter
-[] Once they are gone return to speak to Agent Greene

[] Write in


OOC: And here we are, that was a lot of rolling.
 
[X] Kill the old Vampire

If the masquerade falls, it falls.
We will definitly need a battle-plan for someone with Fortitude 7 and I will write more details, but as a basic idea I'm absolutly not willing to protect House Raith's secrets here.
Chaos is opportunity and we will strive in it, if this escalates.
Most likely it won't escalate though and just some Daedalus-agents will die to cover the matter up.
 
On the mechanical side, we might want the Shintai here against a real Elder, but that gives him a full round to attack us without having to split his actions.
An attack enhanced by high-tier Celerity can really, really hurt.
On the positive side he doesn't seem to have brought more weapons than a hidden handgun. so that's low base-damage at least.

Alternativly to Shintai, we spend 2 Essence to boost Melee Essence and Exoskeleton and start with a swordstrike. He can soak it with Fortitude, but Vampires don't actually get more health-levels, so whatever damage we deal will be relevant and cause real wound-penalties.
 
[X] Offer to wipe off the evidence of Raith crimes off all of Agent Green's devices
-[x] Sincerely
 
[X] Kill the old Vampire

If the masquerade falls, it falls.
We will definitly need a battle-plan for someone with Fortitude 7 and I will write more details, but as a basic idea I'm absolutly not willing to protect House Raith's secrets here.
Chaos is opportunity and we will strive in it, if this escalates.
Most likely it won't escalate though and just some Daedalus-agents will die to cover the matter up.
If this was enough to puncture the masquerade it would have fallen already. Besides, she's going to Daedalus and not the press; the odds are low they'd let it get that far themselves.

That aside, dropping the masquerade is something that needs a bit more delicacy than just burning it down at random one Friday afternoon.

Eventually it could allow things to get better, but it isn't guaranteed and not all routes to that end have the same cost.

If we could pull back the curtain through this we'd almost certainly cause an immense amount of unnecessary chaos and death relative to other approaches.

Edit:

We also just took the kid on. Killing a close family member right after meeting her is horrible minion management on top of everything else.
 
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If this was enough to puncture the masquerade it would have fallen already. Besides, she's going to Daedalus and not the press; the odds are low they'd let it get that far themselves.

That aside, dropping the masquerade is something that needs a bit more delicacy than just burning it down at random one Friday afternoon.

Eventually it could allow things to get better, but it isn't guaranteed and not all routes to that end have the same cost.

If we could pull back the curtain through this we'd almost certainly cause an immense amount of unnecessary chaos and death relative to other approaches.
At the very least we would hurt the vampires.

Long term evidence of human trafficking is a godsend for someone interested in taking action against the literal or metaphorical bloodsuckers out there.

If this is good evidence, and the vamps wouldn't care if it wasn't, then the FBI could actually do shit like freeze accounts, arrest human collaborators and such. Not just Daedalus-goons going in and dying but proper anti-mafia methods reducing the power and influence of those that live of human suffering.

I don't really think this will escalating to the full breaking of the masquerade, but turning parts of the US-Goverment enforcement apperatus against the White Court is an unequivocally good outcome for me.
 
Oh. That's a lot here:
1) Sarah Greene was/is house Raith retainer. I choose to believe that Thomas doesn't know this. But Lara certainly does, and it would explain why she was trying to buy Black Rider - house Raith seems like they ARE investigating. I am unsure why they didn't tell Sarah that to placate her / keep her in place.
2) The girl seems relatively innocent, if a victim of familial indoctrination. I don't think (from the first looks) that she was abused, but she was taught, likely from her childhood, that her nature is something she has no choice in, and should live with. I believe that... ok, not a ner circlemate, obviously, but she could be salvageable.
3) The elder vampire is certainly an Elder. Like, maybe not the head of the House, but possibly only because he doesn't want to be. I think we could still take him (Shintai + viridian legend Exoskeleton + other charms), but it wouldn't be a roflstomp. Not unless we use the girl against him.
4) So, Sarah Greene was covering at least some Raith crimes. "Crimes against children and human trafficking" is certainly bad enough that I can't in good conscience turn my eye away from this, without at least looking first. Because there are degrees here, and stuff like "child snuff porno" is certainly on the table with these kind of beings.

I think this might be the time to clear the misunderstaing. I.e. introduction time. Something along the lines of: "I have not introduced myself. I am Molly Carpenter, daughter of Michael Carpenter. It is... not nice, but good enough to meet you. We have a lot to talk about".

I think what we should do is the following:
1) Introduce ourselves. We can't hide our identity indefinitely, if the girl is to live.
2) If he attacks on hearing who we are, fight it out
3) Investigate what Sarah Greene discovered (and for later interactions we really want Naked Wicked Souls)
4) Depending on what those crimes they are, either drop the hammer of god on the perpetrators, or do other stuff, without involving Daedalus, who have proven themselves untrustworthy. I am fairly sure Murphy could use a big bust.
 
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