Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Marconi already knows about the cyber devils it doesn't really seem worth inconveniencing ourselves to keep them secret at this point. In general we get new abilities faster than people can learn to adjust to our current ones.
Marcone is far from the only person we dont want to know that electronic devices are vulnerable to Molly subversion.

I disagree here. They are well and truly hooked onto our power at this moment. Connecting them with cyberdevils affects their development. It ensures (or at least makes it more likely) that their loyalty won't wear off once the novelty of their new existence does. Cyberdevils also provide a lot of quality of life help that they might require, depending on how beast-like they lived prior to encountering us.
1)Their loyalties are bought with MiS effect on their hungers.
This has nothing to do with questioning their loyalty, just their vulnerability.

The Fallen angel Anduriel is out there spying through the shadows of people.
Nemesis is out there. There's multiple gods and demigods active on this planet, like the maenad and the Hecatean Hag. And I havent even begun to count the Yama Kings and their potential real world agents.

The less of our shit is publicly known, the less likely it is to get around to our enemies, and the less they can plan around it.


2)I would not willingly run a generator underground.
 
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1)Their loyalties are bought with MiS effect on their hungers.
This has nothing to do with questioning their loyalty, just their vulnerability.

The Fallen angel Anduriel is out there spying through the shadows of people.
Nemesis is out there. There's multiple gods and demigods active on this planet, like the maenad and the Hecatean Hag. And I havent even begun to count the Yama Kings and their potential real world agents.

The less of our shit is publicly known, the less likely it is to get around to our enemies, and the less they can plan around it.
The utility of having them equipped with cyberdevils is higher than potential risk in my opinion.
2)I would not willingly run a generator underground.
Why not? Fumes?
 
The utility of having them equipped with cyberdevils is higher than potential risk in my opinion
Strongly disagree.
Put cyberdevils on the phone? Sure.
TELL them there are cyberdevils on the phone, instead of just saying we enchanted them to ensure they can reach Molly? No.

Molly is not quite so invincible as to be giving away bonuses for enemies to exploit
Yes, fumes. And gasoline storage in the same place as they are domiciled.
 
Yes, fumes. And gasoline storage in the same place as they are domiciled.
I was thinking more gas generator than gasoline. Still, ok. You have a point

[X]Plan Red Dog Redemption with Cyberdevils and entertainment
-[X] [Leadership] Separation of Powers
--[X]Command/Security Adam
--[X]Treasurer/Health/Housekeeping: Bones
--[X]Food: Lockjaw
--[X]Youngest/Diplomat/Ombudsman: Sarah
-[X] [Food and Amenities]Budget: $12550
--[X]Camping Supplies:$2000
--[X]Contingency Fund:$1000
--[X]Communications/Cellphones: $450 (9x phones for everyone)
--[X]Groceries: $5400/9 ghouls
--[X]Clothes/Sanitary Supplies/Laundry: $1500
--[X]First Aid/Pharmaceuticals Kit: $200
--[X]Defensive/Protective Gear: $1000
--[X] Entertainment. Books, comics, board games 500$
--[X] Portable power packs for cellphone recharging, 450$

-[X] [Standing orders] Write in
--[X]Patrol the worksite and deter looters and vandals
--[X]Avoid combat if possible
 
Been lurking and reading the quest and just want to say that getting a copy of your birth certificate only costs around 25-30 dollars in any county and from there you can get a state issued id for 20 bucks in Illinois.

So there is really no need to try and get fake ones unless these ghouls were declared legally dead.
Fair enough, I was operating under the assumption that they all had reasons for cutting ties. Either bad situations they didn't want following them, criminal histories, or painful memories they'd prefer to leave behind.

If that isn't the case for some of them restoring their original identities would be convenient, but I'd still like to generate some fakes for them to use. There's plenty of business we could get them involved in that we want as much separation from as possible.
My immediate objection is along the lines of internal dynamics.

The other two older ghouls are explicitly noted to have served as a restraining influence on Adam before our coming.
There's room to see if a change of circumstances moderates Adam's behavior, especially since the group apparently trusts him.
Alternatively, we need time to see if a better leader presents themself.

But in the meantime we shouldnt disrupt that check by splitting them up into different domiciles.

I do think there's merit to the suggestion of splitting up some responsibilities though.
Leave Adam in operational command with a phone, but make one of the other elders the treasurer with the cash fund and another cellphone, and the third elder in charge of the food.

Then give a third cellphone to the youngest of the group.


A five bedroom, two bathroom house in Chicago today starts in the $1700-2000/monthly rent in the cheaper neighborhoods.
If we had the money to buy, we'd be looking at starting around $80,000 according to Redfin, but median would be at least a hundred thousand dollars more. Probably much cheaper in 2008, given the housing bubble popping, but I'll work with the low end.

Then we'd also have to worry about transportation costs.

OPTION A
Rent for a single 5-6 bedroom, 2 bathroom house: ~$2000/1 month
Utilities (power, water, gas, sewer, cable/phone): ~$400/ 1 month.
Monthly passes on Chicago mass transit is $75 per person: $600/1 month.
Monthly groceries at $600 per person(2x normal): ~$5400/nine people/ 1 month
Clothes/sanitary supplies/laundry budget: $150/person: ~$1500/month/ 1 month
Contingency Fund: $1000
2x cellphones: $100
Defensive/protective gear(requires Crafting): $1000

Total: $12000


OPTION B
Camping supplies: ~$2000
Contingency Fund: $1000.
3x cellphones: $100
Monthly groceries at $600 per person(2x normal): ~$5400/nine people.
Clothes/sanitary supplies/laundry budget: $150/person: ~$1500/month
Defensive/protective gear(requires Crafting): $1000
Total: $11000
Fair enough, though I think there's plenty of room to avoid damaging changes in based on how we do the division. Putting the three oldest together could work for example.

Long term property ownership is ideal, but it's also a lot more involved for everyone. We should work towards it, but the amount of money requires to put them up in better living conditions isn't that great relative to what we'll need to do to make progress at all.

On further thought, I like the idea of using extended stay hotels. They're not as cheap as the lowest apartments we could get are, but they're more anonymous and we can put them all in one building.

Ideally we'll work something out within the next two months at most, so we'd only need to rotate them once or twice to keep the situation from looking weird.
 
Didn't Molly mention wanting to join a dnd group at some point?

Rather than sticking with a generic board game, why not have a little fun and buy some rulebooks for them. Playing a meta quest would be too much to bookkeep, but using undefined one shots that happen off screen as a vehicle for social interaction with our new minions could be interesting.
 
Fair enough, though I think there's plenty of room to avoid damaging changes in based on how we do the division. Putting the three oldest together could work for example.

Long term property ownership is ideal, but it's also a lot more involved for everyone. We should work towards it, but the amount of money requires to put them up in better living conditions isn't that great relative to what we'll need to do to make progress at all.

On further thought, I like the idea of using extended stay hotels. They're not as cheap as the lowest apartments we could get are, but they're more anonymous and we can put them all in one building. Ideally we'll work something out within the next two months at most, so we'd only need to rotate them once or twice to keep the situation from looking weird.
As I understand it, the younglings dont have the experience and confidence to operate alone.
And given that Undertown is...what it is, I'd prefer to not have less than six people there at a time.

Extended stay hotels means cleaning crews, and people regularly getting close looks at your stuff.
Which might not be ideal if you just spent the last ten hours in Undertown, or someone got injured in a fight and doesnt want to go to hospital to get foxed up.

Property owners, or at least property renters, provides the presumption of a lot more privacy, and means things like garages where you can stash ebikes and body armor.
Probably below the level of abstraction. But I think some of this discussion informs QM decisionmaking
Didn't Molly mention wanting to join a dnd group at some point?

Rather than sticking with a generic board game, why not have a little fun and buy some rulebooks for them. Playing a meta quest would be too much to bookkeep, but using undefined one shots that happen off screen as a vehicle for social interaction with our new minions could be interesting.
When we free up some cash, there's definitely room for an entertainment budget.

I just happened to think that spending a thousand bucks on entertainment, like Yog's plan does, seemed like a bad case of misplaced priorities when our cash reserve is down to 2700 bucks and we arent sure
Im already halfway expecting recruitment to

Should I explicitly include the Red/Green Dogs keeping an eye out for recruits?
I dont want to proselytize beyond our capabilities, but we could potentially double this group out to 20ish.
Which would give three shifts of 6.
 
When we free up some cash, there's definitely room for an entertainment budget.

I just happened to think that spending a thousand bucks on entertainment, like Yog's plan does, seemed like a bad case of misplaced priorities when our cash reserve is down to 2700 bucks and we arent sure
Im already halfway expecting recruitment to

Should I explicitly include the Red/Green Dogs keeping an eye out for recruits?
I dont want to proselytize beyond our capabilities, but we could potentially double this group out to 20ish.
Which would give three shifts of 6.
Remembering that this vote is as much for how we are going to treat the Ghouls as for how the future recruits will be done and we must keep in mind that at least we will end this month with Whampires recruits.

Lucky for us we chose a cash option this turn. Taking into account that we made 50,000 in profit in less than 5 days, our effort for the month should give us at least 200,000 dollars that we will certainly spend our minios. I can't wait for that 2 million+ lottery mentioned earlier to arrive.
 
As I understand it, the younglings dont have the experience and confidence to operate alone.
And given that Undertown is...what it is, I'd prefer to not have less than six people there at a time.

Extended stay hotels means cleaning crews, and people regularly getting close looks at your stuff.
Which might not be ideal if you just spent the last ten hours in Undertown, or someone got injured in a fight and doesnt want to go to hospital to get foxed up.

Property owners, or at least property renters, provides the presumption of a lot more privacy, and means things like garages where you can stash ebikes and body armor.
Probably below the level of abstraction. But I think some of this discussion informs QM decisionmaking

When we free up some cash, there's definitely room for an entertainment budget.

I just happened to think that spending a thousand bucks on entertainment, like Yog's plan does, seemed like a bad case of misplaced priorities when our cash reserve is down to 2700 bucks and we arent sure
Im already halfway expecting recruitment to

Should I explicitly include the Red/Green Dogs keeping an eye out for recruits?
I dont want to proselytize beyond our capabilities, but we could potentially double this group out to 20ish.
Which would give three shifts of 6.
Fair enough point about the cleaning crews. We'd probably be fine, but one slip could cause considerable trouble. I also went and actually checked prices, and it's looking considerably more expensive than I thought it'd be for the hotel rooms something like twice the cost of comparable apartment rentals.

I agree on the entertainment budget; there's a time for that, but it isn't when we're trying to get established. Money that isn't necessary for expenses should be put towards making more money wherever possible right now.

[X]Plan Red Dog Redemption


[X]Plan Red Dog Redemption - Condos Edition
-[X] [Leadership] Separation of Powers
--[X]Command/Security Adam
--[X]Treasurer/Health/Housekeeping: Bones
--[X]Food: Lockjaw
--[X]Youngest/Diplomat/Ombudsman: Sarah
[X] [Food and Amenities]Budget: $11300
-[X] Attempt to find 1 month leases sufficient to cover all ghouls for no more than $3000
—[X] Use Molly's name on the leases if needed, apply social excellencies to encourage leasing agents to avoid looking too closely at our business.
--[X]Communications/Cellphones: $200 (4x phones for Security + Treasurer + Food + Youngest)
--[X]Groceries: $5400/9 ghouls
--[X]Clothes/Sanitary Supplies/Laundry: $1500
--[X]First Aid/Pharmaceuticals Kit: $200
--[X]Defensive/Protective Gear: $1000
[X] [Standing orders] Write in
--[X]Patrol the worksite and deter looters and vandals
--[X]Avoid combat if possible



Your plan is fine, but I'd rather get them into actual housing if we can, and cheap places given the minimum necessary to keep out of the cold seem viable.
 
I'm not sure having too many defined positions in a group of just nine people is worth it. Nine people is small enough that we can just sit down and talk to each individual member. Discuss the broad strokes of our morels so they know what sorts of behavior we find bad. Listen to them talk about the realities of their life here.

Trying to find them above ground housing or a lease or whatever seems massively premature. How would they even use above ground housing with their current job? Would they have to commute through undertown every day? Sounds like a massive risk to me. Our money would be far better spent making their current living spaces more habitable.

Considering how much money we are spending on food we may be able to get significant savings by buying in bulk. Does $300 per person come form retail prices? In the long term we can probably buy food by the pallet. Plus we won't be buying stuff with 2022 prices. So our money may stretch a bit further then we think.

Anyway,
[X]Plan Red Dog Redemption

This seems decent.
 
When we free up some cash, there's definitely room for an entertainment budget.

I just happened to think that spending a thousand bucks on entertainment, like Yog's plan does, seemed like a bad case of misplaced priorities when our cash reserve is down to 2700 bucks and we arent sure
Im already halfway expecting recruitment to
500 bucks, not a thousand. 450 is for power packs for cell phones and such.

And entertainment is important. Once you don't suffer constant hunger and aren't driven to find food, you quickly get bored. That's just how human-like mind works. While 500 bucks might be too much, At least some entertainment budget should be allocated immediately, if we are to treat our minions well.

Money is demonstrably not a problem for us. At most, we'll spend another day or two making gems / whatever.
 
OK, Vote closed.
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Dec 17, 2022 at 2:51 AM, finished with 54 posts and 9 votes.

  • [X]Plan Red Dog Redemption
    -[X] [Leadership] Separation of Powers
    --[X]Command/Security Adam
    --[X]Treasurer/Health/Housekeeping: Bones
    --[X]Food: Lockjaw
    --[X]Youngest/Diplomat/Ombudsman: Sarah
    [X] [Standing orders] Write in
    --[X]Patrol the worksite and deter looters and vandals
    --[X]Avoid combat if possible
    [X] [Food and Amenities]Budget: $11300
    --[X]Camping Supplies:$2000
    --[X]Contingency Fund:$1000
    --[X]Communications/Cellphones: $200 (4x phones for Security + Treasurer + Food + Youngest)
    --[X]Groceries: $5400/9 ghouls
    --[X]Clothes/Sanitary Supplies/Laundry: $1500
    --[X]First Aid/Pharmaceuticals Kit: $200
    --[X]Defensive/Protective Gear: $1000
    [X]Plan Red Dog Redemption with Cyberdevils and entertainment
    -[X] [Leadership] Separation of Powers
    --[X]Command/Security Adam
    --[X]Treasurer/Health/Housekeeping: Bones
    --[X]Food: Lockjaw
    --[X]Youngest/Diplomat/Ombudsman: Sarah
    -[X] [Food and Amenities]Budget: $12550
    --[X]Camping Supplies:$2000
    --[X]Contingency Fund:$1000
    --[X]Communications/Cellphones: $450 (9x phones for everyone)
    --[X]Groceries: $5400/9 ghouls
    --[X]Clothes/Sanitary Supplies/Laundry: $1500
    --[X]First Aid/Pharmaceuticals Kit: $200
    --[X]Defensive/Protective Gear: $1000
    --[X] Entertainment. Books, comics, board games 500$
    --[X] Portable power packs for cellphone recharging, 450$
    -[X] [Standing orders] Write in
    --[X]Patrol the worksite and deter looters and vandals
    --[X]Avoid combat if possible
    [X]Plan Red Dog Redemption - Condos Edition
    -[X] [Leadership] Separation of Powers
    --[X]Command/Security Adam
    --[X]Treasurer/Health/Housekeeping: Bones
    --[X]Food: Lockjaw
    --[X]Youngest/Diplomat/Ombudsman: Sarah
    [X] [Food and Amenities]Budget: $11300
    -[X] Attempt to find 1 month leases sufficient to cover all ghouls for no more than $3000
    —[X] Use Molly's name on the leases if needed, apply social excellencies to encourage leasing agents to avoid looking too closely at our business.
    --[X]Communications/Cellphones: $200 (4x phones for Security + Treasurer + Food + Youngest)
    --[X]Groceries: $5400/9 ghouls
    --[X]Clothes/Sanitary Supplies/Laundry: $1500
    --[X]First Aid/Pharmaceuticals Kit: $200
    --[X]Defensive/Protective Gear: $1000
 
I'm not sure having too many defined positions in a group of just nine people is worth it. Nine people is small enough that we can just sit down and talk to each individual member. Discuss the broad strokes of our morels so they know what sorts of behavior we find bad. Listen to them talk about the realities of their life here.

Trying to find them above ground housing or a lease or whatever seems massively premature. How would they even use above ground housing with their current job? Would they have to commute through undertown every day? Sounds like a massive risk to me. Our money would be far better spent making their current living spaces more habitable.

Considering how much money we are spending on food we may be able to get significant savings by buying in bulk. Does $300 per person come form retail prices? In the long term we can probably buy food by the pallet. Plus we won't be buying stuff with 2022 prices. So our money may stretch a bit further then we think.

Anyway,
[X]Plan Red Dog Redemption

This seems decent.
1)Charity specifically raised it as a concern, given her own personal history as member of a cult.
And while trauma colors her opinions, her lived experience is not going to be ignored by Molly. So it seemed worthwhile to address formalizing a division of powers setup as part of the restructuring process instead of just leaving it to informal influence.

Additionally, its not a bad idea to setup a structure we can just plug people into later; we do expect them to grow, and the fact we can talk to everyone now wont necessarily remain true if, say, they double in size between now and September.
And we havent even seen the Whampires.


2)Undertown has many, many entrances and exits.
We use Marcone's warehouse because its convenient and we know where it is. The Red Dogs undoubtedly know several others, and will likely have told us about them.

That said, yes, commuting is very much one of those issues that I was thinking about when I mentioned taking a couple months to get things right before moving them aboveground.


3)Would be nice, but I dont really expect any savings on food in the short term.
When they are living in a six or seven bedroom house with a two or three car garage? Then they can afford to do things like put 2x 25 cubic feet chest freezers in the garage and have a dedicated storage room and buy food in bulk.

But while they are living underground and everything has to be handcarried or magicked down the tunnels, that limits what you can buy and how much at a time. And that means a lot of stuff that is portable and preserves well.
500 bucks, not a thousand. 450 is for power packs for cell phones and such.

And entertainment is important. Once you don't suffer constant hunger and aren't driven to find food, you quickly get bored. That's just how human-like mind works. While 500 bucks might be too much, At least some entertainment budget should be allocated immediately, if we are to treat our minions well.

Money is demonstrably not a problem for us. At most, we'll spend another day or two making gems / whatever.
That falls under camping supplies.
A car battery and an inverter will just about provide enough power to keep four cellphones charged for a month comfortably. And a new car battery is around 50 dollars.

The oldest members of the group have been down here for five years
The youngest have been here for months at a minimum
They have to have had stuff to pass the time. They can use that for the next month.

We dont currently have the income margins to spare.
Yes we'll make more money soon, but until we do, I'd rather keep the margin in the event of unforseen expense.
 
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They were hungry. Always, always hungry. They were looking for food mostly. Entertainment doesn't matter that much in such situation.
Literally our first ghoul encounter:
And so you are the first down into the nest of ghouls, running as swift and silent as you know how. As your lantern light creeps down the slick tunnel walls the smell hits heavy and foul, the smell of rot, filth and blood and beneath it all. The steps bottom out suddenly, the light spilling out onto a scene out of nightmares: eight ghouls standing in front of the back wall amid a pile of gnawed one and torn meat, but in a way that is not the worst of it. They seemed to have been... playing, setting up piles of small bones and rocks and then throwing pebbles at them to see who can name the most fly off. How young are they?

As they turn, elongated jaws slavering and jagged claws out to grasp and to tear you still can't get that image of almost innocent play out of your mind.
How do you fight?
You underestimate human ingenuity.

If we can throw in a pack of cards or two, or a checkers board with camping supplies, sure.
A hand crank radio would also be a good fit.
But in the current circumstances, I dont think its reasonable to spend several hundred dollars on an entertainment budget.

Next month, sure. Not this one.
 
So, next turn, I was thinking we would need these things.

Qiao - 3xp
Chirality Prohibition Index (•••) - 12xp
Maggot Mana Plague (••) - 8xp
Rendered Villain Dispersal (•) - 4xp

27xp which is pricy but

The Qiao gives us absurd soak that stacks with charms, making Molly all but unkillable if we roll highly enough.

Chirality Prohibition Index - Allows us to train our minions to 5 dots in Melee and Occult. With Occult being the most important as it helps train up people who can make potions for us.

Rendered Villain Dispersal is for recharging in bleach, to travel across Oceans and otherwise, to be of utility. It is more "optional" but it combos well with charms we have.

Maggot Mana Plague is more optional but would be essential if we want to feed large numbers of minions. It is very much optional but still something we would need to pick up. It would go a long way to make people loyal to us.

Personally, I would be pushing for the Qiao and CPI next spending turn.

What are your thoughts?
 
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