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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Oh right, I didn't vote.

[X] All things made Easy

I actually don't mind any of these plans. Although I definitely want to get exorcism at some point in the near future. If it does work on nemesis infection, then it'd be a pretty powerful bargaining chip. Maybe we could buy Harry's debt*.

Still I don't think we need it right this moment.

* Might be worth it just to avoid any future conflict of interest problems like the one we just had to work around. of course, it's more for narrative than practicality.
 
Asael said:
I mean, think about it this way.

If you, today, saw a video of someone growing extra appendages and flying around while glowing, you'd assume it's fake. Right?
I mean, unless we actually sit down for an interview.... Or, IDK, have a supernatural showdown in the middle of town, I doubt it's going to amount to much.

But even if we did* most people aren't going to come to the conclusion that vampires and fairies and angels are real, you know? It's a bit of a leap.

And honestly, the moment our anima banner goes off we're shining brightly enough to be seen through walls, and we'll almost certainly get to that point sooner or later.
*to be clear, I am not suggesting we do this.
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1)What @BronzeTongue said.
The longterm consequences are probably going to be shuffled under the rug.
The immediate consequences, less so.

2)Our anima banner is no longer what it was during the Age of Legends.
Then you could basically see a flaring Infernal from space, or the horizon.
Now its basically a bonfire a little above our head.

We've flared it multiple times in the story so far. Its obvious. Just not see through walls obvious.
 
Asael said:
Except that also happens in the story and even then, it usually doesn't amount to much- stuff much crazier than wings or glowing or whatever.

Like- we'd have to be *very* public for it to actually matter. I just don't see that as being terribly likely, since the supernatural crap we'll be dealing with usually doesn't want to be public knowledge either.
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Bystanders are hardly relevant. The point is that wings that aren't the flier's equivalent of truck nuts will have a wingspan in the 12-20 ft range, and even that's short for something lifting a person.*

That's a huge increase in profile, worse a highly mechanically active one that draws the eye, and an inconvenience in general.


* I'm aware real physics doesn't apply here, it's just that flying on weird 3 foot wings or something would look ridiculous in my opinion.
 
This bickering is pointless the flight comes from a charm by definition it cannot have any downside, unless outright stated in the charm text. You could pick block out the sun horizons to horizon wing span and it would not matter.
 
Goldfish said:
It's just a level of complication and hassle that we don't need, IMO. Maybe 9 times out of 10 there wouldn't be any issue with flying around with a great big pair of flapping wings, but there would always be a chance that they would garner immediate, unwanted attention, and that's enough for me to never want to have to worry about them.

We are already going to have to be careful when we fly if we want to avoid attention, there is no point in making that even more difficult than it needs to be.
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If that's how you feel, then generally it's better to just not fly at all 9/10 times. after all, any time you're flying around you could get spotted- flashy or no.
I mean, are you thinking we're just going to duck into an alleyway and take off? people would notice that- even if superhero films would try to convince you otherwise.

@BronzeTongue TBH, IDC about the wings. levitation is fine. I'm more annoyed by this idea that, for some reason, we need to make sacrifices for the masquerade when you have t-rex skeletons charging down the street and roaring loud enough to break glass and crack stone.

As long as we aren't prancing in the middle of the public eye, it'll probably fine- unless the QM want's to use it for a plot hook.
 
Compromise option; what if our special effect is confined to our shadow?

We fly as levitation, and no physical wing exists or effects how we fly. However, in any circumstance where Molly casts a shadow it includes wings large enough to feasibly lift he. That or 2-3 slightly smaller sets of them.

That shouldn't be visible outside of our immediate area or while flying, and gives a cool visual without being too Denarian.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Compromise option; what if our special effect is confined to our shadow?

We fly as levitation, and no physical wing exists or effects how we fly. However, in any circumstance where Molly casts a shadow it includes wings large enough to feasibly lift he. That or 2-3 slightly smaller sets of them.

That shouldn't be visible outside of our immediate area or while flying, and gives a cool visual without being too Denarian.
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Personally rather not.

Hews too close to the Archleone aesthetic for comfort, especially living in the home of a Knight who lost a friend and colleague to Nicky, next to a child who the Denarian tried to infect with a Coin, and as an associate of someone who said Denarian tried to kill.
There's amusing reference, and then there's just trauma flashbacks.
 
Asael said:
@BronzeTongue TBH, IDC about the wings. levitation is fine. I'm more annoyed by this idea that, for some reason, we need to make sacrifices for the masquerade when you have t-rex skeletons charging down the street and roaring loud enough to break glass and crack stone.
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I don't really agree; those events are things that happen sort of rarely on the macro level, it's just that Dresden lives in a time of turmoil that he happens to be highly connected to. The whole sequence of events eventually overwhelms the supernatural's ability to hide the breaks the masquerade anyway, so it's not like there's no risk in regularly ignoring it.

That said, the masquerade isn't really the primary argument here. It's the tactical aspect of making yourself bigger and easier to see. When we're sipping around the battlefield, trying to ambush someone, or attempting to use flight while primarily running a stealth mission (like planting cyber devils in a corporate server farm) wings are a hindrance.

They're also annoying if we want to play with flight in private for totally frivolous reasons, like floating around the house for the hell of it.

More subjectively, I also think but wings are sort of like those huge glam metal hairstyles; there's a few conditions they look right in an a huge number where they're just silly.
uju32 said:
Personally rather not.

Hews too close to the Archleone aesthetic for comfort, especially living in the home of a Knight who lost a friend and colleague to Nicky, next to a child who the Denarian tried to infect with a Coin, and as an associate of someone who said Denarian tried to kill.
There's amusing reference, and then there's just trauma flashbacks.
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I think there's enough of a difference not to be any more traumatizing than any of Molly's other powers, but fair enough.
 
BronzeTongue said:
hat said, the masquerade isn't really the primary argument here. It's the tactical aspect of making yourself bigger and easier to see. When we're sipping around the battlefield, trying to ambush someone, or attempting to use flight while primarily running a stealth mission (like planting cyber devils in a corporate server farm) wings are a hindrance.

They're also annoying if we want to play with flight in private for totally frivolous reasons, like floating around the house for the hell of it.

More subjectively, I also think but wings are sort of like those huge glam metal hairstyles; there's a few conditions they look right in an a huge number where they're just silly.
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we're not all that great at stealth. If it's about keeping a low profile, flying is a bad choice anyway. You still cast a shadow, there is less cover in the air*, and people don't fly so it's immediately attention grabbing.

If we're flying, it's probably because we need to gain elevation fast, and being spotted isn't an immediate concern

*Unless you're flying high enough for clouds- but that's dumb for entirely different reasons.
 
Asael said:
If that's how you feel, then generally it's better to just not fly at all 9/10 times. after all, any time you're flying around you could get spotted- flashy or no.
I mean, are you thinking we're just going to duck into an alleyway and take off? people would notice that- even if superhero films would try to convince you otherwise.

@BronzeTongue TBH, IDC about the wings. levitation is fine. I'm more annoyed by this idea that, for some reason, we need to make sacrifices for the masquerade when you have t-rex skeletons charging down the street and roaring loud enough to break glass and crack stone.

As long as we aren't prancing in the middle of the public eye, it'll probably fine- unless the QM want's to use it for a plot hook.
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My argument against wings hasn't mentioned the "Masquerade" once or even implied its existence.

I'm entirely focused on the fact that gigantic flapping wings make us easier to see, thus making us a bigger target while also making it more difficult to go unnoticed when we're trying not to draw attention from enemies, authorities, or anyone else you could care to name.

Flight is a great power to have, but it's not intended for use in everyday life. We aren't going to fly down to the grocery store when Charity asks us to buy a gallon of milk, and we won't be flying to school to avoid early morning traffic. It's for tactical movement, when we need to rapidly reach places we otherwise cannot get to, when there are obstacles we can't easily bypass, when he need to approach an enemy from an unexpected angle, etc.
 
Goldfish said:
My argument against wings hasn't mentioned the "Masquerade" once or even implied its existence.

I'm entirely focused on the fact that gigantic flapping wings make us easier to see, thus making us a bigger target while also making it more difficult to go unnoticed when we're trying not to draw attention from enemies, authorities, or anyone else you could care to name.

Flight is a great power to have, but it's not intended for use in everyday life. We aren't going to fly down to the grocery store when Charity asks us to buy a gallon of milk, and we won't be flying to school to avoid early morning traffic. It's for tactical movement, when we need to rapidly reach places we otherwise cannot get to, when there are obstacles we can't easily bypass, when he need to approach an enemy from an unexpected angle, etc.
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Mechanically, it's identical with or without wings.
 
In any given fight we will almost always want to be the big and obvious target.

Since we are a lot squishier than any if our allies, we make for a great bullet-sponge.
Harry or Micheal would be straight up dead in some cases we have already survived, like standing in front of a machinegun or taking a surprising headshot from Kattrin.
 
Goldfish said:
I'm entirely focused on the fact that gigantic flapping wings make us easier to see, thus making us a bigger target while also making it more difficult to go unnoticed when we're trying not to draw attention from enemies, authorities, or anyone else you could care to name.
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Literally none of that matters, again its an Exalted charm their are zero downsides. Having giant flaming wings, is no different from superman flight to an exalted charm.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Of course our mode of flight has consequences, narrative if not mechanically.
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Exalted where made to fight being that control concepts. Little things like variation on flight are meaningless. Your talking about people that can develop stealth powers to make you unable to react to them stabbing you in the back even if you see them, IE their powers make you unable to react or stop them in anyway, even thou you did see them.
 
Goldfish said:
That doesn't make any sense.

I'm done with this subject.
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I meant exactly what I said. In terms of the game's mechanics, the only difference between wings and levitation is ascetics.

The storyteller might decide to assign an off the cuff penalty anyway if you're being obnoxious- but rules as written, if we're actively rolling to be sneaky, we don't take a penalty for our chosen ascetic.

And it's not like there aren't a lot of very quiet birds out there (owls stand out.)
 
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Earth-Destroyer said:
Exalted where made to fight being that control concepts. Little things like variation on flight are meaningless. Your talking about people that can develop stealth powers to make you unable to react to them stabbing you in the back even if you see them, IE their powers make you unable to react or stop them in anyway, even thou you did see them.
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Yes, and?

Vampires can do the same with Obfuscation.

That having big burning wings makes us a more obvious target should be clear.
I want that, to draw fire from our less tough allies, but I can see why people might not want it.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Exalted where made to fight being that control concepts. Little things like variation on flight are meaningless. Your talking about people that can develop stealth powers to make you unable to react to them stabbing you in the back even if you see them, IE their powers make you unable to react or stop them in anyway, even thou you did see them.
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But we don't have those things, and won't have them for a while if we ever do. Therefore the conditions in which we apply the powers we do have matter.

Big flaming wings are self evidently more obvious at range than the profile of a person, we shouldn't need every bit of minutia spelled out in dice to track factors like that.

Edit: autocorrect
 
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Earth-Destroyer said:
Literally none of that matters, again its an Exalted charm their are zero downsides. Having giant flaming wings, is no different from superman flight to an exalted charm.
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This is not a video game. If you look more obvious you are going to be noticed more because anything else would damage my suspension of disbelief. Now how much of an impact that will have in this or that situation can be debated, but giant flaming wings are more noticeable than levitation for better or for worse. Molly is not a bunch of gameplay abstractions wrapped in irrelevant fluff, she is character who interacts with the world as part of the narrative of an interactive story.
 
BronzeTongue said:
But we don't have those things, and won't have them for a while if we ever do. Therefore the conditions in which we apply the powers we do have matter.

But flaming wings are self evidently more obvious at range than the profile of a person, we shouldn't need every bit of minutia spelled out in dice to track factors like that.
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Since it bares repeating "Exalted charms have no downside". Unless a charm text expliclty has a stated downside in the text of the charm. By Rage Recast does not have a downside, so no-matter what form of flight we get, it has no effect on how visible, or how notable Molly is at all.
 
BronzeTongue said:
But flaming wings are self evidently more obvious at range than the profile of a person, we shouldn't need every bit of minutia spelled out in dice to track factors like that.
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if they were looking at you to spot your wings, they'd have spotted you anyway.

We shouldn't be flying that high anyway, frankly.


Ah, it seems the QM decided to weigh in. Well i guess we'll be pretending that aping superman is "subtle" somehow.
 
Asael said:
if they were looking at you to spot your wings, they'd have spotted you anyway.

We shouldn't be flying that high anyway, frankly.


Ah, it seems the QM decided to weigh in. Well i guess we'll be pretending that aping superman is "subtle" somehow.
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It is the notion of strict gameplay and aesthetics segregation that I am countering here. If you had chosen to make your Shintai form an eye made of swords it would have a different impact on others than a humanoid one in spite of the fact that it is 'just' an aesthetic choice.
 
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