- Location
- washington
Mind you that the erkling has a mantle or mantles. I guess if arawn meant he'd fade into oblivion cause he gave up his mantle might make sense rather than a faith thing it's no longer being the god being he used to be.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Well then, I have being looking into Arawn as according to the myths and let me tell you, the rabbit role when it comes to this being is long. Note Welsh Mythology and literature from what I understand, has a large tendency to characterize Celtic dieties as mortal heroes such as for example the hero of third and fourth branches of Mabinogi aka the mortal Manawydan fab Lyr is the equivalent of the diety Manaman mac Lir, the irish god of the ocean and guardian of the underworld.
The simplest part which can be said about Arawn are the following, first there is a saying associated with him from a Cardigan Folktale. Hir yw'r dydd a hir yw'r nos, a hir yw aros Arawn "Long is the day and long is the night, and long is the waiting of Arawn"[1]
Second is that fall is considered Arawn"s time mainly from the baying of great hounds and the crying of geese headed south towards the winter, which is important to know as the traditional celtic year ended on Samhain also known as Halloween which is the day when the spirits of the dead walk freely, highlighting his role.
Arawn"s name primarily comes from the Welsh Tale Pwyll, Prince of Dyfed which involves the prince of the Kingdom of Dyfed and Arawn himself. Mainly he comes up here in The Four Branches of the Mabinogi or Pedair Cainc Y Mabinogi which are the earliest prose stories in the literature of Britain.
Third is that Arawn"s most defining trait is that he is the Lord of Annwn, the Welsh Otherworld or going by the meaning of the name Annwn Lord of the Underworld in Welsh Mythology which is achieved through the events in a particular tale. In the tale he is portrayed as being at first the ruler of half of Annwn with the other half being ruled by Halgan which is continuously waging war against Arawn prior to the tale for dominion over Annwn.
Along with that he is shown to be beloved by his court and his queen immensely, a just ruler who in his year of rulership of Dyfed immensely improved it such Pwyll did with his Kingdom, a skilled magician who is skilled in shapeshifting such that his wife was completely unaware of the year long switch, an adept hunter who loves sport such that everyday with his court they went hunting with his supernatural white eared white eyed dogs. Which are known as in Welsh folklore, the Cŵn Annwn or "Hounds of Annwn" which ride through the skies in autumn, winter, and early spring. The baying of the hounds was identified with the crying of wild geese as they migrate and the quarry of the hounds as wandering spirits, being chased to Annwn.
It should be noted that his family is unknown as apart of this tale we do not know even his wife's name.
To make it simpler for others to understand and gain your own conclusion here is a syponsis of the tale from the Wiki.
As time went on though and the Christianization of the British Isles slowly risen, the portrayal of the otherworld and Arawn become increasingly negative due to his association with death, such as Annwn being increasing protrayed as a place for the souls of the dammed and making Arawn the lord of the dammed.
It must be said however, that there is another name which shares the role of King of Annwn in a different mythology, particular Arthurian mythology. Gwyn ap Nudd meaning White or Winter present in Culhwch_and_Olwen, an early Arthurian tale. Going to looking more into this, but I will say that the portrayal of the character here is very different in personality as I can examine so far. Hope what I found is helpful so far.
If any questions ask and I will clarify.
The simplest part which can be said about Arawn are the following, first there is a saying associated with him from a Cardigan Folktale. Hir yw'r dydd a hir yw'r nos, a hir yw aros Arawn "Long is the day and long is the night, and long is the waiting of Arawn"[1]
Second is that fall is considered Arawn"s time mainly from the baying of great hounds and the crying of geese headed south towards the winter, which is important to know as the traditional celtic year ended on Samhain also known as Halloween which is the day when the spirits of the dead walk freely, highlighting his role.
Arawn"s name primarily comes from the Welsh Tale Pwyll, Prince of Dyfed which involves the prince of the Kingdom of Dyfed and Arawn himself. Mainly he comes up here in The Four Branches of the Mabinogi or Pedair Cainc Y Mabinogi which are the earliest prose stories in the literature of Britain.
Third is that Arawn"s most defining trait is that he is the Lord of Annwn, the Welsh Otherworld or going by the meaning of the name Annwn Lord of the Underworld in Welsh Mythology which is achieved through the events in a particular tale. In the tale he is portrayed as being at first the ruler of half of Annwn with the other half being ruled by Halgan which is continuously waging war against Arawn prior to the tale for dominion over Annwn.
Along with that he is shown to be beloved by his court and his queen immensely, a just ruler who in his year of rulership of Dyfed immensely improved it such Pwyll did with his Kingdom, a skilled magician who is skilled in shapeshifting such that his wife was completely unaware of the year long switch, an adept hunter who loves sport such that everyday with his court they went hunting with his supernatural white eared white eyed dogs. Which are known as in Welsh folklore, the Cŵn Annwn or "Hounds of Annwn" which ride through the skies in autumn, winter, and early spring. The baying of the hounds was identified with the crying of wild geese as they migrate and the quarry of the hounds as wandering spirits, being chased to Annwn.
It should be noted that his family is unknown as apart of this tale we do not know even his wife's name.
To make it simpler for others to understand and gain your own conclusion here is a syponsis of the tale from the Wiki.
Whilst hunting in Glyn Cuch, Pwyll, prince of Dyfed becomes separated from his companions and stumbles across a pack of hounds feeding on a slain stag. Pwyll drives the hounds away and sets his own hounds to feast, earning the anger of Arawn, lord of the otherworldly kingdom of Annwn. In recompense, Pwyll agrees to trade places with Arawn for a year and a day, taking on the lord's appearance and takes his place at Arawn's court. At the end of the year, Pwyll engages in single combat against Hafgan, Arawn's rival, and mortally wounds him with one blow and earns Arawn overlordship of all of Annwn. After Hafgan's death, Pwyll and Arawn meet once again, revert to their old appearance and return to their respective courts. They become lasting friends because Pwyll slept chastely with Arawn's wife for the duration of the year. As a result of Pwyll's successful ruling of Annwn, he earns the title Pwyll Pen Annwfn; "Pwyll, head of Annwn".
Some time later, Pwyll and his noblemen ascend the mound of Gorsedd Arberth and witness the arrival of Rhiannon, appearing to them as a beautiful woman dressed in gold silk brocade and riding a shining white horse. Pwyll sends his best horsemen after her, but she always remains ahead of them, though her horse never does more than amble. After three days he finally calls out to her asking her to stop. Rhiannon does so immediately and says she will gladly stop and it would have been better for the horse if he had asked sooner. She then tells him she has come seeking him because she would rather marry him than her fiance, Gwawl ap Clud. They set their wedding day a year after their first meeting and on that day Pwyll sets out for the court of Hyfaidd Hen. At their wedding feast a man shows up and asks to make a request of Pwyll who replies the man may have whatever he asks for. The man then reveals himself as Gwawl ap Clud and asks for Rhiannon and the wedding feast, which Pwyll is obliged to give. Rhiannon, unhappy with this turn of events explains that the feast is hers and not Pwyll's to give away and it has already been promised to the guests and hosts. She explains that after another year an equal feast will be prepared for her and Gwawl ap Clud, and he leaves back to his realm. One year later the day of the feast arrives and now it is Pwyll Pen Annwfn who comes to the wedding feast, in disguise and with an enchanted bag given to him by Rhiannon, to ask for a request. Gwawl ap Clud, being more clever than Pwyll replies that if the request is reasonable he shall have it. Pwyll then asks for only enough food to fill his bag and Gwawl ap Clud complies. The bag being enchanted though, could not be filled and eventually Gwawl ap Clud himself enters the bag to honour his promise and Pwyll closes it and the bag is hung and struck repeatedly by Pwyll's men.
Under the advice of his noblemen, Pwyll and Rhiannon attempt to supply an heir to the kingdom and eventually a boy is born. However, on the night of his birth, he disappears while in the care of six of Rhiannon's ladies-in-waiting. To avoid the king's wrath, the ladies smear dog's blood onto a sleeping Rhiannon, claiming that she had committed infanticide and cannibalism through eating and "destroying" her child. Rhiannon is forced to do penance for her crime.
The child is discovered outside a stable by an ex-vassal of Pwyll's, Teyrnon, the lord of Gwent Is Coed. He and his wife claim the boy as their own and name him Gwri Wallt Euryn (English: Gwri of the Golden hair), for "all the hair on his head was as yellow as gold."[2] The child grows to adulthood at a superhuman pace and, as he matures, his likeness to Pwyll grows more obvious and, eventually, Teyrnon realises Gwri's true identity. The boy is eventually reunited with Pwyll and Rhiannon and is renamed Pryderi, meaning "caution".
The tale ends with Pwyll's death and Pryderi's ascension to the throne.
Some time later, Pwyll and his noblemen ascend the mound of Gorsedd Arberth and witness the arrival of Rhiannon, appearing to them as a beautiful woman dressed in gold silk brocade and riding a shining white horse. Pwyll sends his best horsemen after her, but she always remains ahead of them, though her horse never does more than amble. After three days he finally calls out to her asking her to stop. Rhiannon does so immediately and says she will gladly stop and it would have been better for the horse if he had asked sooner. She then tells him she has come seeking him because she would rather marry him than her fiance, Gwawl ap Clud. They set their wedding day a year after their first meeting and on that day Pwyll sets out for the court of Hyfaidd Hen. At their wedding feast a man shows up and asks to make a request of Pwyll who replies the man may have whatever he asks for. The man then reveals himself as Gwawl ap Clud and asks for Rhiannon and the wedding feast, which Pwyll is obliged to give. Rhiannon, unhappy with this turn of events explains that the feast is hers and not Pwyll's to give away and it has already been promised to the guests and hosts. She explains that after another year an equal feast will be prepared for her and Gwawl ap Clud, and he leaves back to his realm. One year later the day of the feast arrives and now it is Pwyll Pen Annwfn who comes to the wedding feast, in disguise and with an enchanted bag given to him by Rhiannon, to ask for a request. Gwawl ap Clud, being more clever than Pwyll replies that if the request is reasonable he shall have it. Pwyll then asks for only enough food to fill his bag and Gwawl ap Clud complies. The bag being enchanted though, could not be filled and eventually Gwawl ap Clud himself enters the bag to honour his promise and Pwyll closes it and the bag is hung and struck repeatedly by Pwyll's men.
Under the advice of his noblemen, Pwyll and Rhiannon attempt to supply an heir to the kingdom and eventually a boy is born. However, on the night of his birth, he disappears while in the care of six of Rhiannon's ladies-in-waiting. To avoid the king's wrath, the ladies smear dog's blood onto a sleeping Rhiannon, claiming that she had committed infanticide and cannibalism through eating and "destroying" her child. Rhiannon is forced to do penance for her crime.
The child is discovered outside a stable by an ex-vassal of Pwyll's, Teyrnon, the lord of Gwent Is Coed. He and his wife claim the boy as their own and name him Gwri Wallt Euryn (English: Gwri of the Golden hair), for "all the hair on his head was as yellow as gold."[2] The child grows to adulthood at a superhuman pace and, as he matures, his likeness to Pwyll grows more obvious and, eventually, Teyrnon realises Gwri's true identity. The boy is eventually reunited with Pwyll and Rhiannon and is renamed Pryderi, meaning "caution".
The tale ends with Pwyll's death and Pryderi's ascension to the throne.
As time went on though and the Christianization of the British Isles slowly risen, the portrayal of the otherworld and Arawn become increasingly negative due to his association with death, such as Annwn being increasing protrayed as a place for the souls of the dammed and making Arawn the lord of the dammed.
It must be said however, that there is another name which shares the role of King of Annwn in a different mythology, particular Arthurian mythology. Gwyn ap Nudd meaning White or Winter present in Culhwch_and_Olwen, an early Arthurian tale. Going to looking more into this, but I will say that the portrayal of the character here is very different in personality as I can examine so far. Hope what I found is helpful so far.
If any questions ask and I will clarify.
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Sounds like becoming Mab's minion was more of a setback than I was expecting. Also that Arawn might be more of a magical threat than I assumed, and I was already rating him pretty highly.
- Location
- washington
With the Arthurian tale that's kind of neat. Actually did mab directly recruit them or was it mabs predecessor?
I just find a source which sums up him far better than I can here which is good because I do not have time this week for research. Arawn: the SCARY Celtic God of Death and the Underworld, EXPLAINED and-the-underworld-explained.
Essentially for those who do not want to read it
Arawn is known to be tall, looming, and sporting a grey cloak. He rides a grey horse, making him an imposing figure that often sparks fear in those he approaches.
His name is believed to comes from the Hebrew name Aaron, meaning 'exalted'.
According to Welsh mythology, Arawn guards over Annwn as a fair and just ruler. Like any good leader, he honours his promises but also punishes roguery with a heavy hand.
He is often described within Celtic folklore as the Provider, the Virtuous, and the Guardian of the Lost Souls.
Despite his warm disposition, he often symbolises war, revenge, terror, and hunting. These dark symbols are all connotations closely tied with death.
The Hounds of Annwn or Cwn Annwn are the faithful hounds that belong to Arawn and reside in the Underworld by his side. Similarly to their master, they represent loyalty, guidance, hunting, and death.
During winter and autumn, it is said that they go on the Wild Hunt. They ride through the night hunting evil spirits and terrorizing wrongdoers.
The sound of their shrill howl is believed to be the omen of death, which lure wandering spirits to their final resting place in Annwn.
He is associated with the decay of autumn and winter. It is the time of year when he is most active, summoning spirits to Annwn during The Wild Hunt.
For Throughout autumn, leaves often change colour and fall, and animals retire and prepare for the harshness of winter. This time of year represents change, death, slumber, and decay.
As for old age, the transition from autumn to winter symbolises the idea of human maturity and 'the end'.
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- Location
- Germany
So he propably didn't have an option of joining Summer at least, not if Autumn/Winter is his natural time.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
And now I'm wondering why he didn't just sign up with the Erlking instead of Mab. He would still be subordinate to her, but at one step removed and outside her direct purview.
- Location
- Germany
I've heard him called the Summerking.
Maybe his and Arawn's hunts can't be simultaneous?
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I wonder if he would have supplanted the Erlking as the leader of the Wild Hunt?
- Location
- Germany
If he had had the option to stay powerful, independant and keep doing his job and favorite hobby he propably would have taken it.
But OTOH i'm sure the Erlking knows how to slap down some minor deity angling for his job.
Office-politics among Fae are propably brutal.
Because the concepts and reasoning along with what they manage behind both of them are fundamentally different, as are their nature. To understand here is a description of the Erilking and contrast it with Arawn from the Wiki.
The Erlking is a hunter spirit associated with primal violence. According to Die Lied der Erlking, he isn't a part of the Winter Court or the Summer Court, but is described as a wyldfae. He can also be described as a Summer King.[2]
The Erlking holds dominion over the spirits of fallen hunters, the energy of the hunt: excitement, hunger and bloodlust. He can call those spirits in the forms of great black hounds, then ride the winds and forests of the Wild Hunt. He carries great power as he does this.[4]
The Erlking is devious, cunning, strong, and swift.[4] He is not an evil being, he is a "force of nature, power and violence without conscience or restraint."[5] Regarding children's deaths, the various tales say he either: preys on children, heralds their deaths, or he's a guardian making sure the souls of children aren't harmed or diverted as they leave their bodies.[6]
It is clear as night and day when examining and comparing the both of them. They are actually incompatible from what I can tell. Also we cannot forget he is also an Ankou which seems to be important as well.
To emphasize the difference, here is the snippet on the wikipedia for why they do the wild hunt and compare it with the Eriking.
The Cŵn Annwn are associated with the Wild Hunt. They are supposed to hunt on specific nights (the eves of St. John, St. Martin, Saint Michael the Archangel, All Saints, Christmas, New Year, Saint Agnes, Saint David, and Good Friday), or just in the autumn and winter. The Cŵn Annwn also came to be regarded as the escorts of souls on their journey to the Otherworld. A Ci Annwn's goal in the Wild Hunt is to hunt wrongdoers into the ground until they can run no longer, just as the criminals did to their victims.
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Arawn also lent his name to the villain in the Taran series, so that's one way Molly might know of him.
Wait a bloody minute?
Wikipedia
"In Welsh mythology, Arawn was the king of the otherworld realm of Annwn who appears prominently in the first branch of the Mabinogi, and alluded to in the fourth. In later tradition, the role of the king of Annwn was largely attributed to the Welsh psychopomp, Gwyn ap Nudd - meaning "white" (i.e. 'winter') a possible kenning for his true name.
Gwyn ap Nudd is a Welsh mythological figure, the king of the Tylwyth Teg or "fair folk" and ruler of the Welsh Otherworld, Annwn, and whose name means "Gwyn, son of Nudd". Described later on as a great warrior with a "blackened face", Gwyn is intimately associated with the otherworld in medieval Welsh literature, and is associated with the international tradition of the Wild Hunt.
Dresden files
Gwynn ap Nudd was the king of the Tylwyth Teg. He first appeared in "Curses". Three years from proven Guilty.
Gwynn ap Nudd was the king of the Welsh Fey court, the Tylwyth Teg and a Chicago Cubsbaseball fan. He could take the form of a billy goat, sacred to the Tylwyth Teg.
The Tylwyth Tegare a group of Fair Folks from the Nevernever. They are a Welsh Fey court. Proudly independent, they intensely dislike to be called faerie. The Jili Ffrwtan are among their high-ranking women. Their king is Gwynn ap Nudd, and they held goats as sacred.
Arawn? Gwynn? What the hell happened to you and your court or your godhood? How did you fall under Mab"s influence? What the hell are you doing? How did this happen? Why did this happen? Either I connected some dots that should not have being connected and DP was unaware of the connections they have with one another or not or I Just confused myself and even others even more because of my examination as unless they are somehow unconnected to each other which is bloody unlikely with immense similarities in domains although admittedly they are different in personality they got some explaining to do.
Did Gwynn steal all of Arawn"s stuff? Are they the same beings? Is Gwynn an Ankou and his court Ankou?
What of Lydia? Is she a changeling? A demigod? Something new?
Or is Arawn fae who adopting the name of a god who has long since left? No that does not make sense as then there would be no threat of oblivion. Is it a power play instead of survival?
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I am betting on something new. She would have been a demigoddess, but due to the deal Arawn made, she is getting empowered by the concept of death itself, not just by specific myth. She seems to be a dragonblooded analogue by way of Death Magic.
Only issue is the stunts.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, looks like people are pretty agreed on the generalities but disagree slightly on the specifics.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I'd guess this might be a bit of myth getting confused with DF reality.
That is a likely possibility, there is another possibility also in it being inspired by something which I will elaborate soon enough.
Or the events gone very differently for Arawn or Gwynn in this past since when considering that Mab fought against Yomi for the infernal shard an action which did not occur in canon, leading to rippling effects across the timeline. Or as you said confusion.
Still there is one final piece of the puzzle which has not being addressed. which is what he is being continuously called. Eldest of the Ankou.
I am going to check what that name about to find what other nonsense that is hiding in front of my face.
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Before the rabbit hole goes too far that is indeed a case of name confusion, Gwynn ap Nudd is indeed another being, though likely one with a connection with the fellow in front of you. Molly can ask him about it if you guys vote for it
I don't know if it was already asked or answered in this fic but aren't infernal exalted created by the primordials (yozi)?
And in the exalted lore the primordials created everything… so are they like the Dresden files Christian god who is probably just a really powerful outsider/old one who thought "I'm gonna create my own multiverse and your gonna like it!" ?
So my real question is, is Molly basically a maidservant of a Azathoth reject and can they influence her?
And in the exalted lore the primordials created everything… so are they like the Dresden files Christian god who is probably just a really powerful outsider/old one who thought "I'm gonna create my own multiverse and your gonna like it!" ?
So my real question is, is Molly basically a maidservant of a Azathoth reject and can they influence her?
@DragonParadox
Do we know what Molly was considering for either the degree she was going to go for, or a career she was thinking of going into?
Do we know what Molly was considering for either the degree she was going to go for, or a career she was thinking of going into?
I am going to say that is up to you guys now, it is a pretty personal choice and canon has nothing on the matter
Considering her crush on Harry, I'd almost bet canon Molly was considering being a PI or Harry's secretary.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
I don't see her going for a secretarial role, beyond perhaps as an intern or assistant while working on her degree. For a degree, maybe something like a criminal justice major if she was aiming for a PI license?
Yeah.
So... a dot of Investigation, Streetwise, or Larceny would be in character... possibly Law too.