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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Valkhir said:
Dex because dex.
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Fuck me man, White Wolf has fucked our heads so bad that anything below Dexterity 5 is unplayable, huh? I used to buy the Legendary (Dexterity) and Prodigy (Melee) Merit for 2.5 because of how utterly useful those Merits are.

That and I think that Int 5 is also a good investment as any. Appearance seems to actually be of use this time (making DragonParadox my first White Wolf ST that actually USES and Rolls Appearance) so, we might need to bump that up. But not before Charisma 5. We need that social skills.

Thank God, I maxxed out Melee at Chargen.
CorruptedKing said:
How much effort do we need to put into the demon?
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Depends, how much would you be willing to consign a soul into eternal damnation and suffering.

Note that I am not against it, although that might be my fucked up morality speaking.
 
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Valkhir said:
Also, Harry is lucky he can use a revolver, I think magic fucks up even very modern mechanical stuff like very modern guns but I may be misremembering.
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Wasn't it mentioned that Harry would do better with a more modern gun that parts, machining tolorances etc are vastly batter and would be able to tank the tech bane. Like most wardens use fully automatic pistols and even rifles.
 
CorruptedKing said:
Honestly kinda forgot that we could make demons I really do want this castle though especially since it should be possible to make it fly but also we could link it to our house that way even if something attacks the house it doesn't work because the actual living space is the castle and the house is just a shell with a door we can just have it wander around Europe or fly it across oceans. Holy shit I only wanted it for the cool factor but this is actually fucking amazingly useful. How much effort do we need to put into the demon?
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Well step one would be getting the crafting charm, which is Construct Convergence Principles, a five dot Wicked City Charm. Once you have that you need to find what Usum calls a dragon's nest, that is a focus of mystical energy to make the thing in. Step three, getting your hands on an item of great emotional meaning and significance to serve as the focus will ironically be the easiest.
 
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Valkhir said:
But I don't really care about either, so... I am of the opinion that we only need to kill things, lead well, and do magic well.
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Finance is the God skill in the modern world. 2dot and the excellency would be enough to make Molly one of the top 100 richest people in the world. Able to hire the best mortals, to do things for her, does not matter if their dice pool is 8 when you have 800 people rolling someone is going to get straight 10s.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Finance is the God skill in the modern world. 2dot and the excellency would be enough to make Molly one of the top 100 richest people in the world. Able to hire the best mortals, to do things for her, does not matter if their dice pool is 8 when you have 800 people rolling someone is going to get straight 10s.
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I am not interested in buying dots of Finance when our most important dealing are with magic stuff, demons, and things of that nature, when we can still do fine with what scores we'd have from 5 Int and Exce, instead of buying unfavoured Attribute that won't contribute much.

If we wish to rely on the fruits of modernity, I say the best path is our Kingdom, not Earth where we have much less advantage and is saturated with long lived or immortal beings probably already playing around.
 
Valkhir said:
I am not interested in buying dots of Finance when our most important dealing are with magic stuff, demons, and things of that nature, when we can still do fine with what scores we'd have from 5 Int and Exce, instead of buying unfavoured Attribute that won't contribute much.

If we wish to rely on the fruits of modernity, I say the best path is our Kingdom, not Earth where we have much less advantage and is saturated with long lived or immortal beings probably already playing around.
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Your not thinking about how much being a billionaire would work for us. Need Dresden Magic hire a teem of 50 lesser talents. Need computers, or technology, hire the best people the ones that charge a few million a year, but are worth 100 lesser people. Need security hire a private army. Want a node just buy it, and turn it into a personal fortress. Want to triple the numbers of SI a generous grant to let them double pay and hire more people. Most importantly it let establish Molly a proper powerbase.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Your not thinking about how much being a billionaire would work for us. Need Dresden Magic hire a teem of 50 lesser talents. Need computers, or technology, hire the best people the ones that charge a few million a year, but are worth 100 lesser people. Need security hire a private army. Want a node just buy it, and turn it into a personal fortress. Want to triple the numbers of SI a generous grant to let them double pay and hire more people. Most importantly it let establish Molly a proper powerbase.
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Nah, not interested.

And its not like Int 5 Exce would be weak.

We would be rolling 12 dice if we worked out of a walk in freezer of some kind. Thats better than mortal maximum.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Not a Lunar you need a skill attached to the excellency. And how are you going to pay to build a walk in freezer, with that money you don't have with zero finance.
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Finance =/= having money. Its your skill with money.

I'd also rather not rely on money hired people or goons when doing anything magic related. If they are motivated by loyalty and then paid its one thing, but otherwise I wouldn't trust them against vampires, denarians, winter etc.
 
Wouldn't buying dots in finance just make us good at moving money around, rather than instantly make us wealthy?

That's an important distinction to make because being a financial genius doesn't mean you can just walk into wall street and walk out rich. You need time to build something worth while on a business level, or what amounts to a scam to suck money out of something already making it.

I can buy that an exalt could game the market eventually, but it's a lot harder to swallow that a young one with no connections could walk in and filch a few million dollars in regular income without anyone noticing. Especially when we then try to spend it.

Even if it does make reality to conspire to give us cash, how do we avoid getting noticed by everyone under the sun?
 
CorruptedKing said:
Would it be cheaper to get a pre existing demon?
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In the sense that there exist demons right now which could serve the purpose yes, but you still need to get their attention and persuade them to effectively haunt your castle to make it fly. So it is up to which demon and how you want to go about things.

BronzeTongue said:
Wouldn't buying dots in finance just make us good at moving money around, rather than instantly make us wealthy?

That's an important distinction to make because being a financial genius doesn't mean you can just walk into wall street and walk out rich. You need time to build something worth while on a business level, or what amounts to a scam to suck money out of something already making it.

I can buy that an exalt could game the market eventually, but it's a lot harder to swallow that a young one with no connections could walk in and filch a few million dollars in regular income without anyone noticing. Especially when we then try to spend it.

Even if it does make reality to conspire to give us cash, how do we avoid getting noticed by everyone under the sun?
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Finance is the skill, it is not piles of money. You still need to make said money.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
Wouldn't buying dots in finance just make us good at moving money around, rather than instantly make us wealthy?

That's an important distinction to make because being a financial genius doesn't mean you can just walk into wall street and walk out rich. You need time to build something worth while on a business level, or what amounts to a scam to suck money out of something already making it.

I can buy that an exalt could game the market eventually, but it's a lot harder to swallow that a young one with no connections could walk in and filch a few million dollars in regular income without anyone noticing. Especially when we then try to spend it.

Even if it does make reality to conspire to give us cash, how do we avoid getting noticed by everyone under the sun?
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With the excellency and 2 finance dots she would roll 12 dice. Mortal max is 10, without specialties. In a year Molly could go from a few thousand, seed money from wherever selling a few art pieces. To an easy millionaire, and by the next year would be quickly becoming a billionaire. Ultra skill in the market and investing makes hundreds of normal humans multi-millionaire ever year, and hundreds of thousands as many people ride wave of a boon economy to a fortune, only to lose it when the bust comes. The hard part is that first million, after that the speed of gaining money increases a thousand times. If it takes 10 years to make the first million it only take 11 years to make the second.
 
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Earth-Destroyer said:
With the excellency and 2 finance dots she would roll 12 dice. Mortal max is 10, without specialties. In a year Molly could go from a few thousand, seed money from wherever selling a few art pieces. To an easy millionaire, and by the next year would be quickly becoming a billionaire. Ultra skill in the market and investing makes hundreds of normal humans multi-millionaire ever year, and hundreds of thousands as many people ride wave of a boon economy to a fortune, only to lose it when the bust comes. The hard part is that first million, after that the speed of gaining money increases a thousand times. If it takes 10 years to make the first million it only take 11 years to make the second.
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First problem. You think we'd have the free time to do so between

Combat, leisure time, finding getting and studying occult secrets, doing magic, Crafting, training and helping Michael or Harry with stuff for this?

Second, it doesn't interest me playstyle wise, not the kind of game or story I am very interested in.
 
Valkhir said:
First problem. You think we'd have the free time to do so between

Combat, leisure time, finding getting and studying occult secrets, doing magic, Crafting, training and helping Michael or Harry with stuff for this?

Second, it doesn't interest me playstyle wise, not the kind of game or story I am very interested in.
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We are not going to be doing it every day, while great, this is a downtime activity, that passively happens over time once we have it. We are not going to be manually detail every step of crafting a sword, that way lies the quest grinding to a halt as days, start to take months IRL.
 
Valkhir said:
First problem. You think we'd have the free time to do so between

Combat, leisure time, finding getting and studying occult secrets, doing magic, Crafting, training and helping Michael or Harry with stuff for this?

Second, it doesn't interest me playstyle wise, not the kind of game or story I am very interested in.
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If we do decide to do anything Finance-related, I'm sure most of it will be in the background. It's definitely not something I want to focus any real attention on, though, and it doesn't make much sense for Molly to be overly concerned with it in the short-term.

A year or two from now, IC, when she's legally an adult, and has had a chance to get her feet under her and work out her place in the world (and acquire the necessary seed money), then it would be more fitting for her to devote some effort to making money.
 
Goldfish said:
A year or two from now, IC, when she's legally an adult, and has had a chance to get her feet under her and work out her place in the world (and acquire the necessary seed money), then it would be more fitting for her to devote some effort to making money.
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Just to be clear Molly can easily get seed money, just craft up legendary dresses or sculptures and sell them. Not sure but it looks like Expression in what you would use for persuasion generally, so it no problem.

Honestly the only reason I don't suggest just making a fashion line to sell for a few million to start off, is that would attract way way more supernatural attention then just being a faceless number on a accounting sheet. And how Dresden magic works
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
With the excellency and 2 finance dots she would roll 12 dice. Mortal max is 10, without specialties. In a year Molly could go from a few thousand, seed money from wherever selling a few art pieces. To an easy millionaire, and by the next year would be quickly becoming a billionaire. Ultra skill in the market and investing makes hundreds of normal humans multi-millionaire ever year, and hundreds of thousands as many people ride wave of a boon economy to a fortune, only to lose it when the bust comes. The hard part is that first million, after that the speed of gaining money increases a thousand times. If it takes 10 years to make the first million it only take 11 years to make the second.
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Weren't you the one saying that it doesn't matter if mortals have a lower dice pool if enough are rolling?

Making a billion+ dollars in two years catches attention, and most of it won't be friendly supposing we can pull it off at all.

I mean, just gaming the stock market for money should be one of the most difficult possible tasks to pull off with finance since it's inherently complicated and so much effort had been put into regulating it from one end and capturing it from the other. Those people you're taking about who do are mostly insiders with connections to the already significant players.

This whole thing sounds more like an arc's worth of effort involving multiple charms than a quick pit stop to me.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Just to be clear Molly can easily get seed money, just craft up legendary dresses or sculptures and sell them. Not sure but it looks like Expression in what you would use for persuasion generally, so it no problem.
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For one starting up a luxury fashion line requires A) starting up a fashion house B) getting acquired by an already existing one
But more importantly devoting months of time to developing dresses and outfits in order to present them in a fashion show and then immediately get started on stuff for the next show a few months down the line, this is however only for top tier max dot fashion designers. A small local clothes/dress shop would be nice though with our own designs without being too much, a nice way to make disposable income. Alternatively making art pieces to sell to a gallery would be good but more noticeable. I personally like the dress shop idea.
 
Earth-Destroyer said:
Just to be clear Molly can easily get seed money, just craft up legendary dresses or sculptures and sell them. Not sure but it looks like Expression in what you would use for persuasion generally, so it no problem.

Honestly the only reason I don't suggest just making a fashion line to sell for a few million to start off, is that would attract way way more supernatural attention then just being a faceless number on a accounting sheet. And how Dresden magic works
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My argument against this sort of thing will always come back to it not making sense IC. It doesn't fit Molly's character at all, and since we're playing as Exalted Molly and not an Exalted SI wearing a Mollyskin suit, we have to let things develop more naturally over a reasonable span of time.

At this point, she has barely diverged from her canon character. It's been a couple days and we've made a few relevant decisions for her, but there is still a long way to go and a lot of character growth/development (all promoted by us and guided by DP) before she could become the type of person who would follow this route.
 
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