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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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DragonParadox said:
[x] [Home:] Embrace
[x] [Burudin:] Yes:

The combination of embrace and no is asking for schism, IMO all the negative synergy of refusing the company of our more politically minded peers while engaging in radical politics.



Er... you do realize that any improvements would directly cut into the time the GM has to write stuff for the quest. Everyone looks passive next to a quest protagonist.
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I'm really not comfortable making a decision like this purely off the idea that of course they are doing wonderful things for the Dawi that we've never seen, we've only never seen it because the QM hasn't felt it important to the quest so its simply never come up.
 
DragonParadox said:
Er... you do realize that any improvements would directly cut into the time the GM has to write stuff for the quest. Everyone looks passive next to a quest protagonist.
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It's sorta a conceit of the genre, unless basically cripple the ability to power game right in the bud.

I mean, the only one I can think of who has other people stay at the same pace as the players is Torroar, who is, well. Quite an exception when it comes to quests in general.
 
jjffjhjf said:
I'm really not comfortable making a decision like this purely off the idea that of course they are doing wonderful things for the Dawi that we've never seen, we've only never seen it because the QM hasn't felt it important to the quest so its simply never come up.
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My argument is not that they are doing it, it is that they are not doing anything of the sort because they are not the quest protagonists. 'Where is their Chainforger' is not a reasonable standard OOC because the story is not focused on them
 
[X] [Home:] Embrace
Fine. Fine. If the idiots are choosing to be cheeky and finagle a way to stay in your home, they're going to at least pay for the privilege! It will require a good deal of work, and cost a pretty penny both in time and effort, but if it's going to be done, then it's going to be done right. Your southern colleagues may grumble and growl, but when have they not? You're over a thousand years old, they can suck on a particularly porous piece of pumice for all you care! Unlocks further options.
[X] [Burudin:] Yes:
Gain title, Member of the Burudin. Options Unlocked. Yorri is too plagued by his mysterious old hurts to see the truth. Accept Alric's offer, and join the Burudin.
 
DragonParadox said:
My argument is not that they are doing it, it is that they are not doing anything of the sort because they are not the quest protagonists. 'Where is their Chainforger' is not a reasonable standard OOC because the story is not focused on them
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I can understand that outlook. Its just hard to agree with it because it feels like they should have done something somewhere in the rumor mills or something, if their whole job is to improve Runecraft for Dawi everywhere.

Or hell, maybe they've taken it to mean keeping all their awesome advances to themselves but improving the heights of runecraft with it so we've never seen any of it. In which case BAH! No point in just raising the ceiling instead of raising the floor of runecrafting.
 
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jjffjhjf said:
I can understand that outlook. Its just hard to agree with it because it feels like they should have done something somewhere in the rumor mills or something, if their whole job is to improve Runecraft for Dawi everywhere.

Or hell, maybe they've taken it to mean keeping all their awesome advances to themselves but improving the heights of runecraft with it so we've never seen any of it. In which case BAH! No point in just raising the ceiling instead of raising the floor of runecrafting.
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Consider that else is already in the rumor mill, the politics, military and economic advancement of a transcontinental empire, diplomacy with the elves and the brana, the doings of chaos and other foul things. Personally I do not think it much of a stretch as someone who has run such an expansive quest in the past that the category of 'stuff the PC is already focused on himself' (rune research), did not make the cut.
 
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[x] [Home:] Embrace
[x] [Burudin:] No

Call me Old Fashioned, but i like to stuff my own Hoard with things and keep out of other Hoar... eh, i mean Halls. The Halls.
 
DragonParadox said:
Consider that else is already in the rumor mill, the politics, military and economic advancement of a transcontinental empire, diplomacy with the elves and the brana, the doings of chaos and other foul things. Personally I do not think it much of a stretch as someone who has run such an expansive quest in the start that the category of 'stuff the PC is already focused on himself' (rune research), did not make the cut.
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Yeah I can understand that. Just not really wanting to make a decision based on the conservation of narrative.
 
Embrace doesn't mean keeping the runesmiths on with us, if that's what some people are after. We're not gonna be collecting runesmith retainers with this.
 
[X] [Home:] Embrace
[X] [Burudin:] No

I think a good way to start to deflate that cycle of self-importance in the Burudin is to start having clearly capable runelords not be members.
 
[x] [Home:] Embrace
[x] [Burudin:] Yes

AD HOC PLANNING AND UNREGULATED LOITERING? IN SNORRI'S HOME?

We do this right damn it.

And if Yorri has something to say, he had better come out and say it, or we take this political power and use it further our goals!

YOU GET A RUNE! YOU GET A RUNE! EVERYONE GETS A RUNE!
 
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Godwinson said:
[X] [Home:] Embrace
[X] [Burudin:] No

I think a good way to start to deflate that cycle of self-importance in the Burudin is to start having clearly capable runelords not be members.
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*wince*

That feels more than a bit like self-importance of its own, it feels moreover like playing politics on our own but for the word of one dwarf. Like we are not only taking everything Yori said for gospel, but deciding we need to punish the institution. If that is actually in Snori's head I almost hope the Burudin come down on him like a pile of bricks.
 
[X] [Burudin:] No:
[X] [Home:] Reject
-[X] Find new accommodations: In removing one problem, that being the overcrowding of your home, you have created another. Perhaps it is no concern of yours, but you will do what you can to find a way to house them now that squatting in your home is no longer an option. Unlocks further options.
 
Snorri is an idealist.

He has firm opinions on what a runesmith should be, and where the art should be going.

The Burudin is the place to be to do that.
At least that is their purported purpose.

If they are not living up to that purpose, then Snorri should find out on his own.

Telling Yorri "you were right" is an option... Even if he's got to swallow his pride to do so.

And if Snorri joins and hates it, because they are not living up to it, he can always refuse to attend the meetings. It would be an even bigger statement to reject it after trying it first.

Plus, i would love to see Snorri's idealism rub off on elders that have allowed themselves to rest on their laurels after having made it to the very top.

There's only so many times you watch Snorri being the energizer bunny of runelords without getting an itch to do something GRAND.

Edit: Snorri is not going to change the Burudin... But the Burudin might change itself because of Snorri.
We got five other runelords in the hold, so many of the higher ups think there is something to Snorri's approach.
Getting offered a place in the Burudin is just confirmation of that.
And besides... Are we going to let Snerra join the Burudin first?
 
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The arguments against the Burudin from a "oh no too much politics" make no sense. Being a member doesn't mean you have to engage in politics (something we already do btw, it's literally our job), it's a gathering of the greatest rune dawi around and gives us the option of engaging in politics. It doesn't magically lock us in to devoting actions to politics. It gives us a direct channel to the greatest rune smiths alive and their potential help and rune knowledge. How are there any negatives? Beyond of course the vague grumblings of a dwarf that is probably several millennia old, that the group no longer precisely matches his master's vision (I question the implicit assumption a good portion of the thread seems to be making: that all the Burudin does is political shit). I for one am shocked that a dwarf who hates anything political to the point they reject being a runelord despite having the skill necessary doesn't like the institution. This same dwarf who won't share shit about his master and is just as secretive and hidebound as any old ass dwarf like the ones in the Burudin. Quite frankly I don't see why we should cut ourselves off from people that are our master's peers and our peers simply because our master is, surprise surprise a hide bound old dwarf with some grudge that is apparently not a big enough deal to warrant actually explaining anything beyond "hurr durr politics bad." The Ancestor Gods themselves did and do politics on the regular, politics aren't bad lol they are a fact of life. It's not the Burudin's fault that Durin in his "wisdom" (lol) didn't consider that bringing all the best runesmiths in the world into a group would lead to politics happening in the group. Why should we let, frankly the narrow-minded vision that Durin and Yorri had for Burudin limit us?

Also we aren't trying to lead a revolution so idk where these fears of Snorri being corrupted by politics are coming from, especially considering Snorri literally already fucking does politics, and any potential choice to engage through the group would just mean engaging in politics at a larger scale.

Soulcake even said the Burudin ranges the gamut from ultra conservative to ultra radical, all rejecting does is potentially alienate super important and very skilled dwarves. I guess it also makes some vague political statement?
 
DragonParadox said:
*wince*

That feels more than a bit like self-importance of its own, it feels moreover like playing politics on our own but for the word of one dwarf. Like we are not only taking everything Yori said for gospel, but deciding we need to punish the institution. If that is actually in Snori's head I almost hope the Burudin come down on him like a pile of bricks.
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Is it punishing the institution? Like not joining it certainly doesn't seem like a punishment unless you consider Snorri joining a great boon we are withholding from them. Certainly we are a good competent Runesmith, we've proven it by becoming a Runelord, raising another Runelord, and various acts that require competence to complete. I doubt we are on the level of the Burudin generally. But given time we will be, if for no other reason than over time we'll get older and better and eventually their members will die.

I just don't think they've been shown to be doing their jobs properly so far, and I'd rather not get stuck with the group that doesn't do their job in case there is something about them that causes it. Like a requirement to get ideas approved by a majority of them or something like that. I don't know if that's a thing, but I can't think of why else they've seemingly failed to achieve results in the last 500 years without invoking this being a story with limited time to spend on things.
 
IronFist said:
Plus, i would love to see Snorri's idealism rub off on elders that have allowed themselves to rest on their laurels after having made it to the very top.

There's only so many times you watch Snorri being the energizer bunny of runelords without getting an itch to do something GRAND.
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Pretty sure it's AFTER we showcased our Set Panoply will they go 'that's it, time to show that beardling how it's properly done!'
Still our Akazit and whatnot MIGHT be interesting for the Burudin AND the Brotherhood of Dron.
 
jjffjhjf said:
Is it punishing the institution? Like not joining it certainly doesn't seem like a punishment unless you consider Snorri joining a great boon we are withholding from them. Certainly we are a good competent Runesmith, we've proven it by becoming a Runelord, raising another Runelord, and various acts that require competence to complete. I doubt we are on the level of the Burudin generally. But given time we will be, if for no other reason than over time we'll get older and better and eventually their members will die.

I just don't think they've been shown to be doing their jobs properly so far, and I'd rather not get stuck with the group that doesn't do their job in case there is something about them that causes it. Like a requirement to get ideas approved by a majority of them or something like that. I don't know if that's a thing, but I can't think of why else they've seemingly failed to achieve results in the last 500 years without invoking this being a story with limited time to spend on things.
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Not joining in combination with what looks like a power move to spread Snorism certainly looks more than a bit like a slap in the face, especially as both are done at the same time.
 
[X] [Home:] Embrace
[X] [Burudin:] Yes

I think this vote will lose unfortunately modern society associates politics inherently with sleeze and corruption which is rather unfortunate for a multitude of reasons. That said Snorri is already a political being, joining is just another forum to give leverage and influence.

Not joining has basically no benefits.
 
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