Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

[X] Encourage Hanyi to take up the missing part and help her with the prep (60% success. Improved relationship with clergy on success. Growth for Hanyi on Success. Negative relations with clergy and Nobles on Failure. Happier Hanyi on success.)

I think it's better for LQs character / in character / the character I want LQ to have, to let Hanyi handle this.

A more "optimization based" argument:
40% chance the guys locally here like us less. The 100% makes the clergy everywhere like us less.

This now might just be a action taken by someone we have reputation -2. How annoying will our future be with more -1s?

[X] Let Hanyi perform with the current choreography. Make sure this Stream doesn't cause trouble personally. (100% Success, +1 Power Success, ??? consequences. Reduced Clergy Reputation.)

First off, screw the clergy. They're rude anyway.

Secondly, from the perspective of the saboteur us taking a gamble can actually be considered the ideal outcome. They will have forced us in a situation where we'll have to accept potential failure and the fallout that comes with it. But we do not need to play their game, due to our unique skillset in dealing with spirits. So let's use that to the fullest, while making sure that Hanyi gets to do her thing without interferance.

[X] Let Hanyi perform with the current choreography. Make sure this Stream doesn't cause trouble personally. (100% Success, +1 Power Success, ??? consequences. Reduced Clergy Reputation.)

dpara said:

[X] Encourage Hanyi to take up the missing part and help her with the prep (60% success. Improved relationship with clergy on success. Growth for Hanyi on Success. Negative relations with clergy and Nobles on Failure. Happier Hanyi on success.)

I think it's better for LQs character / in character / the character I want LQ to have, to let Hanyi handle this.

A more "optimization based" argument:
40% chance the guys locally here like us less. The 100% makes the clergy everywhere like us less.

This now might just be a action taken by someone we have reputation -2. How annoying will our future be with more -1s?

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I think it would be lot more in Ling Qi's character to make sure Hanyi succeeds, no matter how pissed the clergy might be at her over it.
The guaranteed success is letting Hanyi succeed at what she came to do even if it costs Ling Qi personally, and if that is not Ling Qi's character, i don't know what is.

[X] Encourage Hanyi to take up the missing part and help her with the prep (60% success. Improved relationship with clergy on success. Growth for Hanyi on Success. Negative relations with clergy and Nobles on Failure. Happier Hanyi on success.)

[X] Let Hanyi perform with the current choreography. Make sure this Stream doesn't cause trouble personally. (100% Success, +1 Power Success, ??? consequences. Reduced Clergy Reputation.)

Valmond said:

I think it would be lot more in Ling Qi's character to make sure Hanyi succeeds, no matter how pissed the clergy might be at her over it.
The guaranteed success is letting Hanyi succeed at what she came to do even if it costs her personally, and if that is not Lng Qi's character, i don't know what is.

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I agree mostly, but LQ has been struggling with letting her kids do their thing/be in pain, "?agency to make mistakes (and successes)?".

If I rephrase the choices;
1) will LQ value politics the job over her childs happiness/growth/wishes
2) will LQ risk failure for greater success. trust in her childs abilities?
3) will LQ not risk failure (if others/ the clergy hold the bag for her actions)

(..and I think we'll see repeats of this situation if we keep collecting negative reputation)

dpara said:

I agree mostly, but LQ has been struggling with letting her kids do their thing/be in pain, "?agency to make mistakes (and successes)?".

If I rephrase the choices;
1) will LQ value politics the job over her childs happiness/growth/wishes
2) will LQ risk failure for greater success. trust in her childs abilities?
3) will LQ not risk failure (if others/ the clergy hold the bag for her actions)

(..and I fear repeats of this situation if we keep collecting negative reputation)

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1) I'll help you do it
2) Sink of Swim
3) Do your thing, i'll support in the background.

3rd choice is us enabling Hanyi, it allows Hanyi agency while not potentially risking her career, or tanking our rep.
If you really fear the rep decrease, the smart choice would be 1, because it has a the best change of not blowing up in our faces, or 3 because it has the smallest rep decrease and is likely to not bomb our changes at increasing our rep when trying to work on the road situation.

2 has highest potential reward, but it also has the highest change to fuck us over.

[X] Let Hanyi perform with the current choreography. Make sure this Stream doesn't cause trouble personally. (100% Success, +1 Power Success, ??? consequences. Reduced Clergy Reputation.)


While I don't think that personally getting involved all the time is the correct move, I do think that it is the correct move in this situation. The concrete consequence is unfortunate, but not insurmountable (especially given our recent successes in mitigating the Meng dislike for us) so I am not too concerned about it. And I would rather have to deal with the Clergy than to work on improving noble reputations. Also, for the first stop on Hanyi's tour, it is very important that things go right. We want confidence in Hanyi to be there for future dealings and concerts.

As for the unknown consequence, not much we can really do with it. An unfortunate aspect of it is that it is weighted more heavily simply because people fear the unknown consequence more than the known consequence. Generally. However, it likely has to do with whoever is mucking around in the background which is why it is unknown.

As to the person mucking around in the background, I'm not too sure what to think on the matter. I would have hoped that Bao Qian would have done some prep work of his own in looking up which spirits in the local area would need to be placated without relying on the clergy, which presents two options. Either he did and did not inform Hanyi of the spirit that was being left out, or he didn't and simply trusted that the letters coming from the temple were accurate as to their desires.

Giving Bao Qian the benefit to the doubt is likely wise here because his reputation is resting on this performance as well and of all our interactions with him, it would seem that self-sabotage would go strongly against his desires. Meaning either someone in the clergy is trying to mess with us or someone outside of the clergy is trying to drive a wedge between us and the clergy. Really, people need to stop looking at Hui machinations as examples of how to deal with people they don't like, that's all I'm saying.

The unknown consequences might not be a case of we don't know yet, but a case of the consequences have not been determined.
E.g. if we fight a river spirit I would imagine that flooding is a viable consequence - but depending on how the fight goes it could result in a village being flooded, other spirits being disturbed etc. The consequences could also be that we relate to the spirit better than the clergy and thus the next time the clergy interacts with the Spirit it is sulky due to it not being us. The point being that the unknown consequences could well not be set in stone and thus our actions and the dice can increase or decrease said consequences as well as their nature.

Valmond said:

1) I'll help you do it
2) Sink of Swim
3) Do your thing, i'll support in the background.

3rd choice is us enabling Hanyi, it allows Hanyi agency while not potentially risking her career, or tanking our rep.
If you really fear the rep decrease, the smart choice would be 1, because it has a the best change of not blowing up in our faces, or 3 because it has the smallest rep decrease and is likely to not bomb our changes at increasing our rep when trying to work on the road situation.

2 has highest potential reward, but it also has the highest change to fuck us over.

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I choose 2 because I prioritize what Hanyi wants, then chance of success, then reputation.
For me the choices are really close together with an impossible "correct one", I'm not super attached to 2 here.

But I think 3) is maybe underestimated by you (and others I assume), because "Reduced Clergy Reputation" uses a keyword for a global modifier whereas "Negative relations with clergy and Nobles on Failure" uses relationship which is for individuals (and so I assume just applies to be met inhabitants of this valley).

dpara said:

I choose 2 because I prioritize what Hanyi wants, then chance of success, then reputation.
For me the choices are really close together with an impossible "correct one", I'm not super attached to 2 here.

But I think 3) is maybe underestimated by you (and others I assume), because "Reduced Clergy Reputation" uses a keyword for a global modifier whereas "Negative relations with clergy and Nobles on Failure" uses relationship which is for individuals (and so I assume just applies to be met inhabitants of this valley).

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I'm not seeing how 2 prioritices Hanyi more than 3.
3 is explicitly us letting Hanyi do her thing, the thing she trained and rehearsed for.
Also i doubt the exact words are that significant, Yrs is neither a fae or a computer, could be wrong i guess.
And even if it is larger hit than otherwise would be, failure here still means failure, and that affects our reputation when trying to work on the road issue which can easily compound over time.

Valmond said:

I'm not seeing how 2 prioritices Hanyi more than 3.
3 is explicitly us letting Hanyi do her thing, the thing she trained and rehearsed for.
Also i doubt the exact words are that significant, Yrs is neither a fae or a computer, could be wrong i guess.
And even if it is larger hit than otherwise would be, failure here still means failure, and that affects our reputation when trying to work on the road issue which can easily compound over time.

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because 2 is the only one where "Hanyi grows".

I'd say my interpretation is somewhat game mastery with trying to make "equally bad vote options" because a reputation hit to all nobles&clergymen everywhere would qualify as a trap option I'd say.

dpara said:

because 2 is the only one where "Hanyi grows".

I'd say my interpretation is somewhat game mastery with trying to make "equally bad vote options" because a reputation hit to all nobles&clergymen everywhere would qualify as a trap option I'd say.

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I don't see how that is related to prioritizing Hanyi, especially her wants.
Hanyi wants to succeed, guaranteeing that success is just as much prioritizing Hanyi, and definitely prioritizing her wants by aiding her career.

3rd vote offers guaranteed success, with guaranteed drawbacks, and a mystery which i suspect is a future complication (that may or may not be a negative).
1 and 2 offer rewards, or drawbacks, depending on a diceroll.

The rep hits are abstract, when we piss of a noble, that means we take a rep hit among nobles in general, becausenobles do talk with each other.
So here we take a potential minor hit with nobles and clergy, or guaranteed minor hit with clergy, but do not get egg on our faces in public.

[X] Encourage Hanyi to take up the missing part and help her with the prep (60% success. Improved relationship with clergy on success. Growth for Hanyi on Success. Negative relations with clergy and Nobles on Failure. Happier Hanyi on success.)

Valmond said:

I don't see how that is related to prioritizing Hanyi, especially her wants.
Hanyi wants to succeed, guaranteeing that success is just as much prioritizing Hanyi, and definitely prioritizing her wants by aiding her career.

3rd vote offers guaranteed success, with guaranteed drawbacks, and a mystery which i suspect is a future complication (that may or may not be a negative).
1 and 2 offer rewards, or drawbacks, depending on a diceroll.

The rep hits are abstract, when we piss of a noble, that means we take a rep hit among nobles in general, becausenobles do talk with each other.
So here we take a potential minor hit with nobles and clergy, or guaranteed minor hit with clergy, but do not get egg on our faces in public.

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~ it is because LQ being a tiny Zeqing, by denying Hanyi the chance to fail she denies her the chance to grow?

Yeah, my reputation vs relationship argument is 100% rules/game mechanics based. What you are saying makes sense.

[X] Let Hanyi perform with the current choreography. Make sure this Stream doesn't cause trouble personally. (100% Success, +1 Power Success, ??? consequences. Reduced Clergy Reputation.)

I don't think we should let us get manipulated so easily.

[X] Encourage Hanyi to take up the missing part and help her with the prep (60% success. Improved relationship with clergy on success. Growth for Hanyi on Success. Negative relations with clergy and Nobles on Failure. Happier Hanyi on success.)

Someone is playing us. We should not just try to tank the social damage. We should attempt to turn it into profit.

[X] Encourage Hanyi to take up the missing part and help her with the prep (60% success. Improved relationship with clergy on success. Growth for Hanyi on Success. Negative relations with clergy and Nobles on Failure. Happier Hanyi on success.)

[X] Encourage Hanyi to take up the missing part and help her with the prep (60% success. Improved relationship with clergy on success. Growth for Hanyi on Success. Negative relations with clergy and Nobles on Failure. Happier Hanyi on success.)

dpara said:

~ it is because LQ being a tiny Zeqing, by denying Hanyi the chance to fail she denies her the chance to grow?

Yeah, my reputation vs relationship argument is 100% rules/game mechanics based. What you are saying makes sense.

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Not every situation needs to be a sink or swim lesson.
Sometimes the best thing to do is to help people succeed, instead of throwing an extra wrench into a situation that does not need it, or let one be thrown when we can catch it.
We can, i believe, find growth opportunities that do not involve major public embarrasment and potential damage to Hanyi's career.