Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I'm going to go against the grain a bit and suggest the allure of The Shattered Gaol is in large part illusory. Or, at the very least, very premature. I'm seeing people reference all the build-up we've had with the weilu skeleton, but what I mostly see is foreshadowing which I argue isn't quite the same thing. Our OOC anticipation for the weilu skeleton might have been building up, but in terms of the narrative itself the reminders of its existence haven't been tying into much.

I get that the skeleton is very cool, but that's all the more reason to make sure the groundwork is in position to actually make the most of its true introduction. We don't want a situation where there's a very dramatic entrance and then we just kind of waffle around or get expositioned at without doing anything. We need the capabilities to engage with the subject, in the context that it's found. And on that note, I think it's worth looking back at what this arc is for.

Turn Plan said:
[x] Plan Dreams of Power
-[x] Echoing Grandeur (7/5)
-[x] Hidden Smile IV (1/1)
-[x] Hidden (8/3)

Echoing Grandeur: In the techniques of the Lunar Revelry, there is one which stands out unfiotting from the others. The Joyous Toast, which amplifies the power of your songs. From whence does that power come, flooding in from the Dream? What does even the applause and adulation of mere figments raise the potency of your music so? Advances the Power and Community projects one step. Alters the Joyous Toast technique. (0/5)

Moonless Saboteur's Smile
Hidden Smile IV: Continue to hone your ability to keep your poise and defend against the social probes of your peers. Advance the Trait by one. (0/1)

Hidden: The past lives. The present is its child. You understand so little of the world still. Your vision is still so small. Seek the roots, and find the way of the leaves. Advances the Mystery, Power, and Causality projects 1 step on creation. 30 XP Spiritual Cultivation (0/3)
The broader project, that we didn't even get to vote on, was to go on an adventure in the Dream with Sixiang in order to flesh out the place in the narrative and have Ling Qi start finding her Dream legs. A little more specifically, the Dream arc offered obvious tie-ins to the Echoing Grandeur and Hidden projects we voted for.

Spending time immersed with a group of non-hostile (but not safe) echo-masked Dream spirits for a chunk of time seems like a really good way for Ling Qi to build a solid foundation of Dream experience. It being an old Weilu party also ties into the history and Dream/Music boosting projects really well. The Gaol also touches on history, obviously, but if you look at the phrasing of the project, getting a snippet of the culture in action feels more in line with what it's about.

Then there's rewards to consider. It looks like two sites. "The Fantasian Revel" vs "The Shattered Gaol". Since this arc is about Ling Qi's introduction to the Dream, then we can look at these sites as... setting the tone of her development. And if that's the case, it's hard to justify the Gaol. The majority of our Dream resources and tie-ins, Sixiang, PLR, the Dreaming Moon, lean towards the party. Yeah, we don't want to just be about parties all the time, I certainly don't. But none of those resources have had any real exploration to date; the idea of this entire arc was to correct that very issue. Injecting a totally different, and incredibly narratively prominent, framework of Dream skill/trait development to take precedent over those still-yet unexplored resources strikes me as odd, even inappropriate.

It's actually because the skeleton has been foreshadowed so much that's it's dangerous to grab it as a very first choice. And I don't think grabbing it is even likely to be fruitful in the way people are hoping, with our shaky grasp on the Dream. Most likely result feels like opening up a new, skeleton-themed, questline for Dream development because we just don't have the chops to pull off anything definitive on first blush, not that it would be good for the narrative of our Dream development if we could. And opening up that line of development creates a huge, not really that productive, tension between development "paths" for Dream.

The skeleton has some kind of link/interest to Ling Qi. It has persisted through months of distraction, and I really doubt it disappears if we choose to spend a few hours actually getting a handle on the Dream. Maybe another opportunity doesn't come up for a while, but when it does we'll have the benefit of some foundation of experience and not be suffering under an obligatory narrative of broad ignorance and inability like we are currently.

[X] Enjoy the revel, and mingle with the echoes of the long dead and the dream spirits which might wear their faces. (Gain location access, The Fantasian Revel)
 
[X] Make for the door, and find what lies behind the throne. (Gain location access, The Shattered Gaol.)

[X] Enjoy the revel, and mingle with the echoes of the long dead and the dream spirits which might wear their faces. (Gain location access, The Fantasian Revel)
 
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Adhoc vote count started by EternalObserver on Jun 20, 2021 at 1:15 PM, finished with 121 posts and 81 votes.
 
Injecting a totally different, and incredibly narratively prominent, framework of Dream skill/trait development to take precedent over those still-yet unexplored resources strikes me as odd, even inappropriate.

I mean, it does look like the Throne in the Party belongs to mister skeleton ... so I would say that the two locations are kind of connected and not "totally different". I don't know how, but I want to find out, so off to skelly I wanta go.
And is it not good to add as many frameworks as possible early on in our journey, so we have more options to choose from and find out what fits and sticks?

It's actually because the skeleton has been foreshadowed so much that's it's dangerous to grab it as a very first choice. And I don't think grabbing it is even likely to be fruitful in the way people are hoping, with our shaky grasp on the Dream.

On what do you base that Assumption? Maybe it can help us and tutor us. Maybe it just wants to tell us a story. Maybe we just misinterpreted its appearances, and it just does not care about us. Who knows. That's why exploring it is so tempting and maybe helpful. The fact is that we don't know what will happen. For the Revelry, we have a good grasp on what it is and what will happen, baring any outside Interference (like mister skeleton joining in) since we have already been to one.

Most likely result feels like opening up a new, skeleton-themed, questline for Dream development ...

I see that as a Win.
 
[X] Make for the door, and find what lies behind the throne. (Gain location access, The Shattered Gaol.)

Honestly, I'm just voting for the Zhengui tie-in.
 
[X] Enjoy the revel, and mingle with the echoes of the long dead and the dream spirits which might wear their faces. (Gain location access, The Fantasian Revel)

Sry, Valhalla is the afterlife to be.
 
[X] Enjoy the revel, and mingle with the echoes of the long dead and the dream spirits which might wear their faces. (Gain location access, The Fantasian Revel)

I want permanent horns
 
Huh she invited him to the Revelry? When was that? I don't remember.
When she found out Xuan Shi had a nightmare spirit for his wing man

"...You can still do better, even if you want to delve into Grandmother's darker side," Sixiang said. "Seriously, you should at least let us take you to a proper revel or two."

"You'd be alright with that, right Ling Qi?" Sixiang whispered silently in her head.

That would be fine, she was intending to put more work and attention into the Dream and its arts anyway. She hadn't engaged with that aspect of her patron in too long. "I won't tell you what to do Xuan Shi. Maybe trying to change a nightmare is right for your Way. All the same, I hope you'll accept an invitation or two."
 
[X] Enjoy the revel, and mingle with the echoes of the long dead and the dream spirits which might wear their faces. (Gain location access, The Fantasian Revel)

Good synergy with our goals and practice at dinner party sleuthing. I'm for exploring the revel and saving the gaol for another dive.
 
[X] Make for the door, and find what lies behind the throne. (Gain location access, The Shattered Gaol.)

Who knows when we'll get another chance at talking to the skeleton.
 
[X] Enjoy the revel, and mingle with the echoes of the long dead and the dream spirits which might wear their faces. (Gain location access, The Fantasian Revel)

But I want to do both.
 
I mean, it does look like the Throne in the Party belongs to mister skeleton ... so I would say that the two locations are kind of connected and not "totally different". I don't know how, but I want to find out, so off to skelly I wanta go.
And is it not good to add as many frameworks as possible early on in our journey, so we have more options to choose from and find out what fits and sticks?



On what do you base that Assumption? Maybe it can help us and tutor us. Maybe it just wants to tell us a story. Maybe we just misinterpreted its appearances, and it just does not care about us. Who knows. That's why exploring it is so tempting and maybe helpful. The fact is that we don't know what will happen. For the Revelry, we have a good grasp on what it is and what will happen, baring any outside Interference (like mister skeleton joining in) since we have already been to one.



I see that as a Win.
Remember that it's an actual plot point that Ling Qi does not have a good grasp of what a Dream revel is like. The defining experience of Ling Qi's time at a Dream revel is she barely remembers it. It's not some tried and discarded thing, it's yet unexplored and even parcel to this expedition's existence in the first place.

In a vacuum, I think both options are interesting. It's just annoying to have the party disregarded through uneven reasoning: the skeleton counts as "exploration" but the party, which we just discovered via exploration, isn't; the skeleton has build-up, but the Dream party dripping with Weilu culture and history somehow doesn't; the repeatedly foreshadowed skeleton is an opportunity we can maybe only grab this one time, but the party implicitly doesn't have any limited opportunities because hey we have a line on another party and they're all the same, right?

It's a bit frustrating to see.

But none of this is taking place in a vacuum, anyway. There's the context of our journey with Sixiang, there's the context of our resource base, there's the context of our chosen projects, there's the context of past events, there's the context of upcoming events. Taken all together, I think the skeleton/gaol is simply untimely. That doesn't mean bad, uninteresting, or undesirable, just ill-suited for the current juncture.

Here's the two broad scenarios I see playing out:
1. We don't have the chops to really dig into what we find. It's dramatic and interesting, but we're left with far more questions than answers. The Dream expedition's skill-building plot thread isn't meaningfully advanced. The Weilu skeleton is officially an active plot thread, but there's no room anywhere else in immediate future to do anything with it, and it doesn't enhance any of the slated narrative arcs for this month. The awkward condition of the Dream skill-building means Ling Qi hasn't built the chops to convincingly jump back into it. Other Dream projects to build those skills are effectively starting from step one, and we've wasted our time while adding another obligation to the pile of things we can't ignore.
2. We're able to engage with what we find effectively and make progress on developing our Dream prowess like the arc is meant for. Gathering first-step Dream lessons from the Gaol creates huge tensions with the narratively pre-committed first-step Dream lessons from the Dreaming Moon style resources at our disposal. Both avenues are trying to be "first" and there's no way to reconcile that because the "first" character of the Dreaming Moon stuff cannot actually be separated out coherently, because of previous narrative development.

I'll note Ling Qi can get her feet under her and then "branch out" into spooky skeleton dreams, or nightmares, or whatever. That narrative approach works fine, there's no complication. Doing it the other way around, however, conflicts harshly with what's already on the table for Ling Qi. Between Dreaming Moon, Sixiang, and PLR it just doesn't make sense. That does not mean we can't poke at non-Dreaming stuff. We can and should. It's only a problem here because of the prospect of tuning Ling Qi's foundational development. It's just inappropriate to nail that down to a mystery box unrelated to the Dream accessories Ling Qi possess already but has not yet taken out of the jewelry box, to torture a metaphor.

Edit: I'll phrase it another way, so maybe it makes sense. If Ling Qi learns Dreaming Dream stuff, she can use that as a point of reference while exploring other Dream stuff. Even if it's very different, contrast is an effective tool. However, if Ling Qi immerses herself in another style of Dream stuff first, she can't turn around and use that as a reference point when learning Dreaming Dream stuff. Because she's been neck-deep in Dreaming stuff since forever. It'd be astonishingly stupid if she had to approach it from some other angle, while also basically undermining her entire relationship with Sixiang. And the alternative to doing that is to pretend that she hasn't had any real prior Dream experience when she's doing Dreaming stuff, which then undermines whatever other style of Dream she'd been exploring! There's no way to square this problem; the only solution is avoiding it in the first place. But in this instance, avoiding that problem while picking the gaol means not fulfilling the core skill-building mission of the expedition, which means wasting our time and starting over from zero next shot at the Dream. (end of edit)

The gaol delays core competence and/or muddies the waters. It's basically unavoidably a distraction in the context of where Ling Qi is with her Dream studies right now. Absolutely something she should get involved with, but not before she's tied off some of the dangling Dream plot threads at least a little bit. Centering the arc around a collaborative effort with Sixiang playing guide was a really smart move, but introducing a stylisticly/thematically orthogonal teaching aid/source directly undermines that.
 
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Mmm, I think the point that ultimately we're unlikely to be resolving whatever the skeleton is right now is a reasonable one.

Like, this is a Dream intro arc - something with that amount of foreshadowing isn't going to be wrapped up in one little update or anything. Which means that we're likely here to just be getting more of a hook for future exploration - such as actually making LQ aware of it rather than just ooc background foreshadowing.

But is getting another hook what we necessarily want to be focusing on here? As a final bit of drama to finish off the arc before they leave the dream - sure, maybe. But as the actual focus of what LQ does here? I'm more sceptical.

[X] Enjoy the revel, and mingle with the echoes of the long dead and the dream spirits which might wear their faces. (Gain location access, The Fantasian Revel)
 
Honestly, by biggest concern is the location/site rewards. They scream "primary Dream site" to me, which means they influence our introductory Dream development on an ongoing basis. Yrsillar has said he wants to tie things like sites into being more meaningful, at least more reliably.

I think you can make the argument the Fantasian Revel runs the risk of type-casting us into one approach, but it's also undeniably actually useful for the Dream stuff we actually have. The Shattered Gaol is a lot harder to place, and do we want to tie our fledgling Dream development to it anyway?
 
Honestly, by biggest concern is the location/site rewards. They scream "primary Dream site" to me, which means they influence our introductory Dream development on an ongoing basis. Yrsillar has said he wants to tie things like sites into being more meaningful, at least more reliably.

I think you can make the argument the Fantasian Revel runs the risk of type-casting us into one approach, but it's also undeniably actually useful for the Dream stuff we actually have. The Shattered Gaol is a lot harder to place, and do we want to tie our fledgling Dream development to it anyway?
I mean, we already unlocked three other locations in that update as well. With that setup it just reads like some kind of dream exploration map thing...

It could be an actual cultivation site, yes, but if that's the case I would really like @yrsillar to clarify that, because that kind of changes the context to this vote imo.
 
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