Remove ads

Westernesse: A Númenórean Colony Quest

Reader mode
Shador said:
You make an excelent point, changing my plan to Hall of Speakers.

[X] Plan Say no to Oligarchies, oh men of the west!
- [X] Men of the West
- [X] Hall of Speakers
- [X] Begin Construction Project
- [X] Encourage Immigration From The Eastern Colonies
- [X] Forge Arms
- [X] Expand the Militia
- [X] Send An Envoy To Rivendell
- [X] The Tyrant in the Tower
--[X] Alternate: Do not visit the Middle-Men, but travel to Tharbad instead to question them on the Middle-Men's claims. (Requires Imrazor)
- [X] The Misty Mountains
- [X] The Orc Hunter

I think it's too soon to invite natives (I'm not gonna use Middle-Men, as that is just another form of Numenorian exceptionalism), better to let the population get used to the idea of before we act upon it so batlantly.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Wait, a minute. I'd like to make the case for direct democracy, in hopes of swaying you.

Yes, Direct Democracy is going to become unwieldy and bloated as we expand, but that's why I think it's best we implement it now, then modify it or switch to representatives later.

Representative democracies have their own glaring flaws too. Rome as a historical example had the Consul rank be theoretically open to all and possible for plebians to rise into the patricians. But, plebians had to actively and vigorously fight for both of those rights for centuries even though both were theoretically avaliable from the beginning, because the patrician class wanted to restrict power to themselves.

A Numenorean patrician class limit power to themselves infinity better than Romans did.

Right now, if we don't become Direct Democracy, i fear that there's going to be an unabridged gap between the interests of the long lived and well spoken Numenoreans and any potential Middle Men fire brands as the existing power seeks to crush any threat to their supremacy. The existing Numenorean power will become solidified and established unchallenged by any Middle Men for decades if not centuries, then easily crushed by inertia and tradition
 
Last edited:
Chief18753 said:
Wait, a minute. I'd like to make the case for direct democracy, in hopes of swaying you.

Yes, Direct Democracy is going to become unwieldy and bloated as we expand, but that's why I think it's best we implement it now, then modify it or switch to representatives later.

Representative democracies have their own glaring flaws too. Rome as a historical example had the Consul rank be theoretically open to all and possible for plebians to rise into the patricians. But, plebians had to actively and vigorously fight for both of those rights for centuries even though both were theoretically avaliable from the beginning, because the patrician class wanted to restrict power to themselves.

A Numenorean patrician class limit power to themselves infinity better than Romans did.

Right now, if we don't become Direct Democracy, i fear that there's going to be an unabridged gap between the interests of the long lived and well spoken Numenoreans and any potential Middle Men immigrants who won't have the same long lives to gain experience and honeyed tongues.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A very good point. Also we know from telamon that less actions will not really be an issue because of the increased number of heroes. It might help in netting us the Orc slayer hero.
 
I am coming around to the idea of a hall but dislike the Makata it should be pointed out that no country in the world today uses a direct democracy. Only Athens in ancient Greece did and then citizenship was limited only to rich landowning Athenian males.
 
Question does Men of the West prevent us from expanding peacefully and stop us from offering vassals to middle men tribes. If we choose it will we be stuck in Tar-Nilon forever? Forgive me if I misunderstood and if this is wrong but I am simply curious.
 
[] Plan Say no to Oligarchies, oh men of the west!
Doesn't this plan only has 8 actions and doesn't use heroes at all?

Edit:
[X] Plan Say no to Oligarchies - opportunities edition

[X] Plan Destiny
 
Last edited:
agumentic said:
I am not sure what visiting Tharbad is going to achieve without learning about the state of the Enedwaithrim ourselves. What would Hazrabân even tell Imrazor that he didn't tell us already? He can always disregard their claims as lies or mistakes, and we would have to check them or some other source of information out anyway. So what exactly is the point behind visiting Tharbad first? Let's go to Brun Gledd first or at least visit Rivendell to perhaps find an independent source to confirm things one way or the other.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'd like to second this question for why we're going to visit Tharbad first instead of Enedwaithrim to figure out what the dispute is.
 
KingElessar said:
I am coming around to the idea of a hall but dislike the Makata it should be pointed out that no country in the world today uses a direct democracy. Only Athens in ancient Greece did and then citizenship was limited only to rich landowning Athenian males.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That is a myth. Athens had many faults but there was no wealth requirement, that is essentially what differentiated it from the Oligarchies she often fought against.

A broader question for you @Telamon: Would it be possible to negociate some kind of deal with Tharbad where, in exchange for us helping with their stuff, they would promess to leave the Edain close to our colony alone?
 
Chimeraguard said:
I'd like to second this question for why we're going to visit Tharbad first instead of Enedwaithrim to figure out what the dispute is.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, I mostly followed an original plan, but I can see a sence in this course of actions.
If the accusations are true, we may negotiate with Hazrabân about status of men of Middle-Earth. Maybe even cancel the partnership with Tharbad, although I do not want it. If Hazrabân deny it, we can continue investigation further (who is lying - Hazrabân or Braelor, or maybe this is Sauron's plot?)

@Telamon , I want to ask how much free land do we have for the option "Give Excess Land To Shapers / Milita / Farmers ". How will this affect the further growth of Târ Nîlon?
 
[X] Plan Men of the West, preparing
-[X] Men of the West
-[X] Hall of Speakers
-[X] Encourage Immigration From The Eastern Colonies - Inzilbeth
-[X] Expand the Militia
-[X] Forge Arms
-[X] Send An Envoy To Lond Daer
-[X] Send An Envoy To Rivendell
-[X] The Tyrant in the Tower (Requires Imrazor)
-[X] The Misty Mountains
-[X] The Gwathlo
-[X] Invite Survey - Ûrîphêl
-[X] The Orc Hunter

I figure exploring The Gwathlo area might give us some more insight into how willingly people deal with Tharbad, and Uriphel seems like she might be able to handle the survey. Inzilbeths past I hope would help get us some more people coming in.
 
[X] Plan Say no to Oligarchies, oh men of the west!
[X] Plan Say no to Oligarchies - opportunities edition
[X] Plan Destiny
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top