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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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EternalObserver said:
*is still under consideration of which of the two leading votes would lead to the more F U N Route*
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It is pretty unclear. On one hand the help now vote likely gets things moving quicker, one of the primary reasons I'm voting for it, and gives us some delicious scenes where we need to juggle translation, diplomatic, and 'lineage' talks all at the same time on a shattered battlefield surrounded by the dead and dying. That sounds like some cool scenes to read.

On the other hand, if they flew now I do admit that from a doylist perspective it doesn't make sense for them to just vanish after all the build up. That means they will likely pop up again. And yrs could choose the most awkward place for them to do so. That could also be a fun read.

Frankly it looks like both routes offer FUN. Voting for flee the fun is likely going to be in how awkward the reunion is, while help wants the FUN right now.
 
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TehChron said:
You're betting on a paranoia they havent displayed in the slightest

Including in this battle with how casually Elsa has been treating it

I just dont see any reason to assume wariness that has not been displayed at all.until.this point



No, but I can prove how they act

And they are not acting particularly aggressive or skittish. Rather, they're acting like they're not sure if this is their problem or not with how passive theyve been.

As for how they think?

No one in this thread can. They might pull a runner after the fact, but like how you're willing to take a very immediate risk without cause, I'm willing to take a longer risk that the Ice Ladys demonstrated interest will help motivate her to find a way to open contact back up with Ling Qi.

At least if she declines to down the line, there's no real.drawback save a missed opportunity
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And thats not much evidence for believing that they dont have much knowledge about the empire? Like seriously they still came to the summit. This is all about allying against the empire, they currently dont seem to have much interest, but being here suggests they have knowledge enough to understand that being at this type of summit is important.

And heck, how do we know they arent currently preparing agaisnt the empire. We dont know what the Sky Palace Koliada is, and quite frankly it easily could be a weapon. Something that would make it hard for the Empire to attack the tribes
 
reignonyrparade said:
I'm not betting on anything, you are. You're saying that they DEFINITELY don't have this basic awareness, I'm merely saying that it would be extremely reasonable for them to have this awareness.
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You're betting that the Sect wont just kill.them out of hand or that you've got an accurate read on what an exchange with the Ice Lady constitutes

How many alien cultures have we been introduced to so far in this quest?

The arrogance of the Heavenly Peaks?

The decadence of the Hui?

The Zhengs Matriarchy, rules.on lineage, and strong guests rights traditions?

The Blood Sacrifice.of the Western Jungles?

The Bai Snake Pit?

Whatever the deal.is with the Xuan?

Or the sheer number of Fae-like.spirits that called the Emerald Seas home?

Why would the White Sky tribe be any less alien?

GlassMask said:
And thats not much evidence for believing that they dont have much knowledge about the empire? Like seriously they still came to the summit. This is all about allying against the empire, they currently dont seem to have much interest, but being here suggests they have knowledge enough to understand that being at this type of summit is important.

And heck, how do we know they arent currently preparing agaisnt the empire. We dont know what the Sky Palace Koliada is, and quite frankly it easily could be a weapon. Something that would make it hard for the Empire to attack the tribes
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You're betting on them not being enemies of the Empire too, in case you've forgotten.
 
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GlassMask said:
And heck, how do we know they arent currently preparing agaisnt the empire. We dont know what the Sky Palace Koliada is, and quite frankly it easily could be a weapon. Something that would make it hard for the Empire to attack the tribes
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I stand with you on the help vote. But this is a bit of a silly argument. When things have metaphysical weight, like in FOD, it's important to name them correctly. Otherwise you get a weapon that is useless because it wants to be a palace. Just my opinion.
 
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TehChron said:
You're betting that the Sect wont just kill.them out of hand or that you've got an accurate read on what an exchange with the Ice Lady constitutes

How many alien cultures have we been introduced to so far in this quest?

The arrogance of the Heavenly Peaks?

The decadence of the Hui?

The Zhengs Matriarchy, rules.on lineage, and strong guests rights traditions?

The Blood Sacrifice.of the Western Jungles?

The Bai Snake Pit?

Whatever the deal.is with the Xuan?

Or the sheer number of Fae-like.spirits that called the Emerald Seas home?

Why would the White Sky tribe be any less alien?
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And again the sect is far more likely to not hurt people who have helped them vs people who just fled. When they return they wont be safe because of the sect. If they stay and help, the sect is far more likely to not harm them.

Seriously I dont get how you dont get this
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on Jul 29, 2020 at 1:36 AM, finished with 305 posts and 62 votes.
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GlassMask said:
And again the sect is far more likely to not hurt people who have helped them vs people who just fled. When they return they wont be safe because of the sect. If they stay and help, the sect is far more likely to not harm them.

Seriously I dont get how you dont get this
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I don't understand why you think the Sect is less likely to harm Barbarians they have their hands on as compared to Barbarians that they don't. You're assuming that they wont have any of the very obviously telegraphed prejudice that has been on constant display since this conflict began

The Sect isnt exactly known for being progressive and merciful
 
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[X] Tell her to help if she's so interested in you, you can talk later.

If we manage to drive a wedge between the barbarian factions instead of pushing them towards an alliance, that'll count as the real victory. If we were to manage that while recovering the starstone, that victory would essentially be flawless.

And as screwed up as the situation is, we - Qi, CRX, and Spirits - definitely could use the help. We're about three actions away from being ground down. CRX isn't doing much better. Reinforcements are inbound, yes, but it's not certain that they'd be in time or even win decisively. The Elder might help - but at the same time Qi feels the big build-up of qi above the caldera.

So tactically and strategically this looks to me like the right choice. If Ice Lady accepts it'll come with a hefty cost associated, of course. Keeping the sect forces from turning on her would absolutely be CRX task, but think hope she might be up for it. Talking with barbarians would hopefully be not quite political suicide. Ugh. It might.

Either way: Ice Lady plot, go~

--- Will we ever actually use Frozen Walls ... Or any other of our less flashy buff techs? Seems like the action cost is never worth it. >_<
 
GlassMask said:
Im currently imagining a flying fortress. That could easily be dangerous and a palace.
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Yah... But also slower than Zhengui. How much energy would you need to make a flying fortress fly? You need to be Cyan to be able to fly normally, unless your a spirit beast. It takes an enormous amount of energy to defy the law of Earth. For something like a flying fortress that would mean energy spent on flying is not spent on shields or weapons.

It's not impossible. After all the iron crone is said to have a flying ship we don't know the size of. But the energy required to make a building, a palace, fly means less energy making it actually dangerous.
 
From what I can tell, Ice Lady is basically from a clan that has a Ending spirit ancestor, binds with such spirits as family, and she is asking us if we come from it. Somewhat like if Meizhen met a girl that was bound to a serpent and using serpent arts eerily similar to the Bai ones when travelling outside the empire.

She is also asking if we need help, and the implications there imo is that we need to either ask for help and immediately talk to her, or tell her to leave harshly, as a "leave for it isn't safe" seems a recipe for future misunderstandings. I also don't buy at all the whole "she is going to be attacked the moment the fight end" argument, given we know the sect has had fairly regular contact with some of the tribes that weren't about conflict anyway.

[X] Tell her to help if she's so interested in you, you can talk later.
 
TehChron said:
I don't understand why you think the Sect is less likely to harm Barbarians they have their hands on as compared to Barbarians that they don't

The Sect isnt exactly known for being progressive and merciful
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So from a basic human physchology point of view, people feel gratitude towards those that help them. If the Ice lady helps us, thats helping the sect via this. Helping us in this battle establishes her as a friendly "good" barbarian who doesnt have to be hurt. The sect doesnt kill all barbarians, otherwise the wall would have no population right now. The sect in fact does differentiate between tribes that hurt the sect and tribes that dont.

yrsillar said:
"There are, in these mountains, more than a hundred tribes with which we have had very little contact," Diao Gen, said,drumming his fingers on his elbow. "And many dozens more of whom we are aware, but have so far disdained this conflict. However, we have divined unprecedented movements among these more distant tribes. While the barbarians great gathering at Star's Throne peak this past year is a known factor, a sort of primitive diplomatic moot which occurs once every decade, Sect observers were becoming concerned at the Tribes strange movements and mergers of more southerly tribes in its wake, even before the current war began."
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Can't Talk Now
  • Apocrypha
    • Now, I may not be Ling Qi, but I do consider myself something of a composer. Using my expert musical insight, I hereby bestow on you my 100% accurate interpretation of what Ling Qi is about to sing. (This song was written during the voting discussion after 'Turn 10: Arc 1-5').

    Set to the tune of 'Let it Go', I present the lyrical masterpiece 'Can't Talk Now':

    Cai qi glows bright; sets the chasm alight
    Not a mortal to be seen
    and in the midst of turmoil
    You arrive - to meet me

    The mist is singing with a swirling dance inside
    Have to keep them out, heavens know I'll try
    Don't let them in-don't let him see!
    Officers are always so pesky...
    Wait or translate, speak civilized sounds
    I can't parse your nouns...

    Can't talk now, can't talk now!
    Why don't you help me hold back more?
    Can't talk now, can't talk now!
    It's the middle of a war!
    I don't care what you're going to say
    Let the mist sing on
    You barbarians are bothersome anyway.

    Can't talk now, can't talk now!
    Why don't you help me hold back more?
    Can't talk now, can't talk now!
    It's the middle of a war!

    It's funny how some lava makes these arrows all seem small
    and with grasping roots and vines no one can get to me at all!
    It's time to see what I can do
    and hold the line 'till Guan breaks through
    No right, no wrong, no laws of war
    Such gore...

    Can't talk now, can't talk now!
    Gotta turn into wind and fly
    Can't talk now, can't talk now!
    'Till my enemies all die
    Here I stand, and here I'll stay
    Let the mist sing on...

    Our powers vibrate through the air and shake the ground
    Hanyi summons forth great frozen fractals all around
    And as blood crystallizes from my icy blast
    He's never coming back, his life is in the past!

    Can't talk now, can't talk now
    I'll live to rise with Cai's light of dawn
    Can't talk now, can't talk now
    Help me now or begone
    Here I stand in the pouring rain
    Let the mist sing on...

    You barbarians are bothersome anyway.

    ...
    That took a lot longer to write than expected.

    ...
    [><] Can't Talk Now


    [X] Tell her to help if she's so interested in you, you can talk later.
     
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  • Apocrypha
    • TehChron said:
    You're betting that the Sect wont just kill.them out of hand or that you've got an accurate read on what an exchange with the Ice Lady constitutes
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    We're literally here for prisoners and intel so even in the Absolute Worst Case All Of Your Fears Are Correct scenario, it is very doubtful the sect will kill the "mildly helpful" barbarian out of hand.

    GlassMask said:
    Im currently imagining a flying fortress. That could easily be dangerous and a palace.
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    Yeah, probably what it is:

    yrsillar said:
    "The Crone ignored him, to feast on his neighbors," the younger man replied bluntly. "And why not, he has married an Ice Witch from the south, and offers the beast sacrifice."

    Khan Khashin leaned back in his saddle, hi expression cold. The Iron Toothed Crone, who flew north in a vessel of stone each winter to torment the People in the southern mountains, was an ancient foe of Father Sky. Where she passed, food spoiled, lesser beasts went mad and children disappeared from their cribs. She could not be fought, only survived. "You make bold accusations. Tribes have gone to war for lesser insults."
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    Evilness42 said:
    Now, I may not be Ling Qi, but I do consider myself something of a composer. Using my expert musical insight, I hereby bestow on you my 100% accurate interpretation of what Ling Qi is about to sing.

    Set to the tune of 'Let it Go', I present the lyrical masterpiece 'Can't Talk Now':

    Cai qi glows bright; sets the chasm alight
    Not a mortal to be seen
    and in the midst of turmoil
    You arrive - to meet me

    The mist is singing with a swirling dance inside
    Have to keep them out, heavens know I'll try
    Don't let them in-don't let him see!
    Officers are always so pesky...
    Wait or translate, speak civilized sounds
    I can't parse your nouns...

    Can't talk now, can't talk now!
    Why don't you help me hold back more?
    Can't talk now, can't talk now!
    It's the middle of a war!
    I don't care what you're going to say
    Let the mist sing on
    You barbarians are bothersome anyway.

    Can't talk now, can't talk now!
    Why don't you help me hold back more?
    Can't talk now, can't talk now!
    It's the middle of a war!

    It's funny how some lava makes these arrows all seem small
    and with grasping roots and vines no one can get to me at all!
    It's time to see what I can do
    and hold the line 'till Guan breaks through
    No right, no wrong, no laws of war
    Such gore...

    Can't talk now, can't talk now!
    Gotta turn into wind and fly
    Can't talk now, can't talk now!
    'Till my enemies all die
    Here I stand, and here I'll stay
    Let the mist sing on...

    Our powers vibrate through the air and from the ground
    Hanyi summons forth great frozen fractals all around
    And as blood crystallizes from my icy blast
    He's never coming back, his life is in the past!

    Can't talk now, can't talk now
    I'll live to rise with Cai's light of dawn
    Can't talk now, can't talk now
    Help me now or begone
    Here I stand in the pouring rain
    Let the mist sing on...

    You barbarians are bothersome anyway.

    ...
    That took a lot longer to write than expected.

    ...
    [><] Can't Talk Now


    [X] Tell her to help if she's so interested in you, you can talk later.
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    @yrsillar please omake this lovely song. It would make lovely apochrypha.
     
    [X] Tell her to help if she's so interested in you, you can talk later.

    This seems fairly simple with no room for misunderstandings.
     
    [X] Tell her to leave for it isn't safe for her here, you can talk later.

    Honestly, I'm more interested with talking to her -- favor or not favor -- but this one might let her not get captured, so that'd probably be better. Ice gals -- can't have enough of them, amirite?
     
    [X] "Student to [Songstress of Endings] entreats aid for later negotiation."
     
    GlassMask said:
    So from a basic human physchology point of view, people feel gratitude towards those that help them
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    You mean like Sun Shao was grateful to the Bai for helping him out and giving him leave to take vengeance for his family?

    I keep trying to make the point to leave your cultural norm assumptions at the door because they dont necessarily apply

    But it looks like it refuses to stick
     
    TehChron said:
    You mean like Sun Shao was grateful to the Bai for helping him out and giving him leave to take vengeance for his family?

    I keep trying to make the point to leave your cultural norm assumptions at the door because they dont necessarily apply

    But it looks like it refuses to stick
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    Dude I find it amazing how often you just want to like insult me rather than address my core points. Which is that if we are talking to her, itsmuch safer to be friend thanneutral and there is in text evidence the sect is not completely "rargh kill every barbarian" and in fact does take into account whether they are hostile to the empire.

    But if you just want to take cheap shots rather than argue I guess im cool with that.
     
    reignonyrparade said:
    We're literally here for prisoners and intel so even in the Absolute Worst Case All Of Your Fears Are Correct scenario, it is very doubtful the sect will kill the "mildly helpful" barbarian out of hand
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    Just because Ling Qi is doesnt mean that everyone else will make that distinction
    yrsillar said:
    The obvious implication is incorrect however," Guan Zhi said crisply. "To awaken the mountain would be beyond the abilities of any Cloud tribesman yet recorded. There is some possibility of cooperation with their allies, but we do not believe that to be the purpose of the meeting taking place."

    "Regardless, we may investigate after we have broken them, yes?" Diao Gen said lightly. It earned him a smattering of polite laughter. "For our purposes, the assault will be split into two groups. One will strike directly against the foe, and the other will encircle the southern end of the battlespace, to catch those who flee. I will lead the perimeter group, and Sect Sister Guan will lead the assault. And, should they flee east, west or north…"
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    yrsillar said:
    You suspect alliance and confederation," Cai renxiang observed.

    "Just so, lady Cai," Diao Gen said. "Although, given the lack of presence from true chieftains, it is unlikely that matters are so advanced yet."

    So this was also meant to discredit the efforts of the tribes at war with them then, by crushing it early, the Empire would dissuade other tribes from joining the cause.

    Still, something about that logic niggled at her.

    "It's kinda arrogant and high handed isn't it?" Sixiang observed. "What if these other tribes just get mad instead of scared?"

    Well, even if they did, the Empire was the stronger party, Ling Qi thought. In the end, they weren't disorganized in the same way they had been for Ogodei. The Duchess was here, and even if there was some internal conflict, the rest of the Empire would be behind her. She wouldn't refuse external aid repeatedly, the way the Hui had.
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    So yes

    High handedness
    yrsillar said:
    Enemies of the Empire could not be allowed such weapons. But this was the wrong way to go about it, and not all here were enemies just yet, by her measure. Nor could she see any path from this that would weaken their enemy's suit for allies. This was a hammer being applied to a half painted canvas. But her opinion was not yet relevant, in the grand scheme of things.

    Her gaze flicked to the disciples far below where she stood in the sky. Her objection had been logged, and it had been dismissed. The Elders involved in the operation had relayed the order to proceed. Cai Renxiang felt a spark of anger, incandescent in its unfamiliarity. Was this a shadow of what her Mother had felt before her ascent, when the warning bought with Grandfather's blood was ignored in the court of the Hui?
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    And a complete disregard for nuance are all too prevalent in the commander's of this operation (barring maybe Guan Zhi)
     
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