Apologies if I missed something asked of me, I've got a headache that's making it a bit hard to focus. Ping me if I did, or if you'd like me to evaluate a god or somesuch.

Now originally I didn't form either of these god concepts with the notion of using the seed, but @Xantalos you've talked a little bit about there being some flexibility in associations recently, so on that front - I think I can fairly easily make an argument that both should get a 1/3 for Slumber - both are focused on periods of repose.

Specifically Tlanalotl is largely now about the day night cycle and cocoons as places of rest and transformation/rebirth.

I also think Tlanalotl could be stretched into at least 2/3, while the dead are cocoon awaiting their rebirth they are Numb to the world. Isolated. Finally, at a stretch, I've included a lot of water imagery, largely coming from the cyclic day/night stuff I came up with, which I think could tie into Fog.

Micqeuctl is a bit more of a stretch, but still part of how I've set up the worship is as entombment - giving all the dead a resting place that is individual - and I imagined that the afterlife would reflect that with most of the dead resting in their cells within the hive. Either that or, slightly more strongly, there are again themes of isolation in the funerary practices... at a stretch also Bee stings sort of Numb you? I can't really find any way to argue 3/3 for Micqeuctl though.

So what do you think?
I reckon Tlanalotl could be made to be either 2/3 or 3/3 depending on what you wanted to do with it. The fog connection isn't strong enough that I'd warrant it being a mandatory connection, but it's still there strongly enough that you could spin it in if you wanted.

Micqeuctl I think is a 1/3 connection, just from how the overall concept of her seems to me.

Mmm, it doesn't grab me immediately but I'll think on it. Speaking as a writer myself, getting a somewhat fleshed out idea and being asked to expand on it is less like getting more work and more like being given a fun new toy to play with, so long as the core idea grabs you at least.
Yeah, I don't mind being given something relatively broad to work with - only reason I'm asking for people's reasoning and such now is because I wanna make sure I convey your ideas as clearly as I can without accidentally misrepresenting them. Gods are basically a mini-story I can insert into the existing one, the character sheets are just for quick reference rather than being hard mechanical pillars.
 
I reckon Tlanalotl could be made to be either 2/3 or 3/3 depending on what you wanted to do with it. The fog connection isn't strong enough that I'd warrant it being a mandatory connection, but it's still there strongly enough that you could spin it in if you wanted.

Micqeuctl I think is a 1/3 connection, just from how the overall concept of her seems to me.
Yeah, that's about what I thought. I knew I was really stretching things trying to fit the concepts to Micquectl, but I thought I'd at least see where the edges of those limits lay.

Right, so to keep people up to date, both of my God concepts make use of the Godseed at 1/3 and 3/3 connections respectively. I'm not all that concerned with the vulnerability of our gods.
Just to get these out there, Changes likely still to come depending on Xan's response to earlier questions. In order of preference.

[X] Micqeuctli, the Buzzing Corpse

Symbols: Bees/Beehives, the Buzzing Corpse
Category: Death
Variety: Construction
Domain: Bees
Methods of Worship: Building, Entombing, Creating Geometric Patterns, Beekeeping
Favored Foes: Grave Robbers
Blessing Thematics: Bees, Defense, Wax

Uses the Godseed - 1/3 Connections

On the eve of war Micquectli was born. Naught but a wriggling larva, resting gently in her cell, tended by the ghostly unborn souls of her servant-children-to-be, she nonetheless called out in a voice which echoed and was heard by Lizardmen in each of the Temple-Cities across the planet. Her command was thus; prepare to honor the dead, prepare to build them a place of safety, prepare to strike back at those who would violate the sacred ground of the Temple-Cities.

A desiccated corpse of a saurus or a skink or a kroxigor, with great diaphanous wings, only partially covered in fraying flesh Micquectli bulges with swarms of bees that living within her - she is both hive and queen - and from her skeletal maw and eye sockets drips the Honey of the Dead. Her voice is the buzzing of the swarm.

Her afterlife is an endless hive buzzing with giant lizard-corpse-bees that maintain, expand, and defend it and its inhabitants against the slavering hordes of neverborne who seek to consume the souls held within.

Funereal Practices:
All Lizardmen bodies, excluding slann, are to be secured and then preserved. First by desiccation and then with a layer of wax on the surface, sealing wounds and order replacing limbs if necessary.

Before the head is sealed, a drop of Sacred Honey should be placed on the tongue, then the mouth, eyes, and ears sealed with wax in the same manner as the rest of the body. With this done the body is to be placed inside a hexagonal cell and the entire cell sealed - the cell maybe be within a structure, bare dirt, or within any other suitable material capable of being sealed - prayers to Micquectli for passage are to be said over the entombed with a bundled of smoking grasses.

[X] Tlanalotl the Dawn Butterfly

Symbols: Butterflies/Moths/Cocoons, the Dawn, the Moon, Morning Dew
Category: Death
Variety: Renewal/Rebirth
Domain: Butterflies/Moths/Cocoons
Methods of Worship: Composting Corpses, Cyclic Rituals
Favored Foes: Nurgle
Blessing Thematics: Regeneration, Death Transformation, Purification

Uses the Godseed - 3/3 Connections

Tlanalotl. The Dawn Butterfly.

Each day at dawn Tlanalotl breaks free of his cocoon to light the world, stretching his wings, still heavy with the dew of the night, he takes flight and brings from the dead of night the break of day. With each beat of his wings drops of dew fall, leaving silvery cocoons.

As he passes these cocoons too break open, birthing forth the departed souls of Lizardmen into new life. Sometimes, for the devout of his cult, transformed into strange new forms to better aid the great fight against unclean evil in the world. The silken threads of their cocoons dissolve away leaving untainted earth beneath.

Though occasionally a few strands remain and can be used to work miracles in Tlanalot's name.

Each moment Tlanalot shines all the brighted, the radiance of the dawn diffracting through his jeweled wings to cast the lands below him in rainbows. Until at the peak of midday they reach a blinding radiance and begin to fade. Tlanalotl himself begins to fade too.

His jeweled wings grow dull, his body heavy and shaggy with white-brown-silver fur. The souls of those who have died begin to flock to his body as the evening turns to night, forming the dew drops which will fall the next morn. Until eventually, during the deepest part of night Tlanalotl settles and weaves his cocoon to await dawn.

Funereal Practices:
Bodies should be recovered with care, bathed in cool morning dew, and then enclosed in a cocoon. Silk is best, but cloth, clay, or any moldable but breakable material will do at need.

This cocoon must then be left for an entire year, from longest day to longest night. On the dawn after the longest night the soul of the deceased will return and emerge from their cocoon reborn. Most will be unchanged in physicality, but some chosen few will experience a transformation to give them greater power.

Micqeuctl is a Bee/Construction focused Death goddess oriented more around safeguarding the souls of the dead by keeping Temple-Cities strong and well built and that sort of stuff. If you want to read about temples buzzing with the sound of bees, the dead resting in honeycomb cells tended by giant friendly bumblebees and daemons being swarmed by vengeful stings then Micquectl is the god for you.

Tlanalotl is a Rebirth/Cyclic-Dawn-Dusk Butterfly themed Death god, focused around letting the dead rest temporarily and then having them return to restore (and in some cases changed) bodies to continue their work. If you want to see the dead return in short order, if you want to see the occasional kroxigor, saurus, and skink return from death with... I dunno, wings, or towering five meters tall, or with a thick beetle shell any similar weird changes. Sometimes even in the moment of death. Then Tlanalotl has got you.
 
Here is a quick tally for the record.
Adhoc vote count started by Xantalos on Apr 25, 2020 at 10:26 PM, finished with 39 posts and 37 votes.
 
Tbh I actually really like Pactli as well. And if I thought they had the slightest chance of winning I would likely vote for them instead. Sadly however that dies not seem to be the case. So my second choice will have to do. 3/3 on the God seed even with the potential for downsides if an enemy gets their hands on it is still the way I would prefer to go. Sometimes the risk is worth the reward. And this seems like one of them to me.

Edit -
[X] Pactli, the Fog Hunter
[X] Ayotzl, the Mist Swimmer
 
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It seems strange to say this when the god you proposed and the others that you've vocally supported don't actually include resurrection themes?
... My version of Death-Croc is explicitly a reverse-psychopomp as well as a regular one. That's one of the themes - Croc Mom carrying those in her care to the waters of birth. It's why she's Death-Croc-Mom.


Anyway, voting for myself:

[X] Nantli'atl, the White Crocodile, the Fog of Death and its Guardian
[X] Pactli, the Fog Hunter
[X] Ayotzl, the Mist Swimmer
[X] Protector/Psychopomp/Reverse-Psychopomp blend
-[X] No dividing focus with another major portfolio (like building)
-[X] Utilization of Fog preferred
-[X] Crocodile themes preferred

Edit: Removing my approval vote for Ayotzl - I still like it, but this way the combined Death-Fog-Croc vote ties with Death-Fog-Turtle. It should be safe - Ayotzl will still be ahead of Calquetzqui, and the combined Death-Fog-[Swimming Reptile] vote is even higher since there are plenty of people who voted for Ayotzl but neither Pactli nor Nantli'atl.

Edit Edit: Putting the approval vote for Ayotzl back - there's a final push for "Ayotzl or Calquetzqui" and I don't want the god in charge of our reincarnation cycle to divide focus between that and something else.

Tbh I actually really like Pactli as well. And if I thought they had the slightest chance of winning I would likely vote for them instead.
Approval voting - remember people, we're allowed to do this! You don't have to vote for just one thing, you can vote for all the things you don't mind winning!
Oh, approval voting is definitely okay by my book, and ... I don't think SV has a ranked voting system thing? I'll be consulting thread opinion as the voting goes on and seeing if anybody wants me to make a blend of certain gods or what-have-you. Whatever I can do to make sure as much of the thread's opinion gets expressed as possible, since gods are one of the areas I'm allowing you the most customization in.


Name: Nantli'atl
Symbols: White crocodile, fog/mist (SV uses a weird emoji for 🌫 - just go with the wavy-lines Microsoft version or the cloud-above-wavy-lines LG version)
Category: Death
Variety: Protector/Psychopomp/Reverse-psychopomp
Domain: Fog/mist
Methods of worship:
  • Praying into steam
  • Anointing the dead or soon to die with precipitated water - dew is best, rain is okay if no dew is available, artificially distilled water is technically acceptable but should preferably have some dew or rain mixed in
  • Ritual suicide to strengthen Natli'atl's influence in the area (mostly the nearby warp, but there are signs of it in the materium) around your ritually-preserved corpse - if you are faithful and dead, then you are with her; if something is linking you here despite that, then logically she is also here; this is a sacrifice because you're choosing to stick around and help guard an area/hold ground in the warp instead of being reincarnated; if your corpse starts to decay, then others know you've reincarnated and it's someone else's turn
Favored Foes: Necromancers, thieves/predators/corruptors of souls
Blessing Thematics: fog/mist, ghosts, tranquility, custody, restoration (as in the purification and rebirth of the dead, not the healing of the living)

Incorporates the Seed of Fog - 1/3 default, can be interpreted up to 3/3 if voters desire
  • Incorporates Fog directly as a domain
  • Can incorporate Slumber if desired due to the fluff - "Other species might describe what the dead in her care experience as rest."
  • Can incorporate Numb if desired due to the fluff - her mist is cold and might therefor be numbing.

Constructed from the god-seed made from the megadaemon responsible for the mind-fog affliction once laid upon the Slaan, Nantli'atl is the first god deliberately created by the Lizardmen. She is the dark, cool, endless fog of Death, and she is a vast, bone-white crocodile with Shyish-purple eyes swimming silently within that fog.

The afterlife and its guardian, Nantli'atl carries the souls of the dead safely away into the cold fog that is her self, and she carries them back to the waters of birth when it is time for them to precipitate back into life. She is a gentle, tranquil god, preferring to protect the souls in her care passively with the concealment and intangeability of fog, but if pressed she can drag threats into the cold depths of her being with the crushing grip of a crocodile's jaws and thus protect her charges by imprisoning/drowning/consuming that which might endanger them.

Other species might describe Nantli'atl as a mother figure. Lizardmen do not, but that is simply because they do not have mothers - they acknowledge the similarity in roles if it is pointed out, and the sheer narrative weight in the warp of mother-related archetypes is something the Slaan mage-priests could certainly observe and exploit to strengthen their creation. That mother crocodiles are attentive guardians of their young and carry them to the water in their jaws is another useful thematic resonance.

Other species might describe what the dead in her care experience as rest. Lizardmen do not, but that is because the closest thing to rest that they experience in life is guard duty. Certainly, the dead wait in stillness as the mists of Nantli'atl's being wash away any hurts, fatigue, or corruption left over from life - whether this is rest or a mutually-reinforcing system of guarding and being guarded is relative.

Other species might wonder if Nantli'atl might care for the merely unconscious as well as the dead, or if her realm of death might also be a realm of dreams, were they to worship her as well. The Lizardmen, who never sleep or dream, do not yet have an answer - but if the sea of calm fog, of the uncorrupted souls of the dead, that grows in the Warp as the influence of their afterlife expands, might also be a Sea of Dreams... well, the servants of the Old Ones would certainly not object to putting things back to the way they ought to be. And time is a funny thing in the Warp - if Nantli'atl is much older than the years since her creation, that just makes her story stronger, doesn't it? Or perhaps it's the other way around?

Chaos knew not what it did when it tried to make a trap of fog for the children of the Old Ones...

Where the servants of Sotek are vicious fighters, the servents of Nantli'atl are peaceful, quiet, unobtrusive - and, when necessary, inexorable and inescapable. They normally operate within the infrastructure of Lizardmen cities, but when fights come to them, the violence is ended less with defeat than with cessation as the flowing mists of the Death Goddess, and if necessary the ghostly guards within them, either remove the faithful from harm or swallow up the harm. If the priests themselves are forced to fight, their enemies find that no obstacle or attack will disturb their calm pursuit and no trick or struggle will let a target escape their custody at the end of said pursuit.


OOC: This concept accomplishes several things:
  • Uses at least one harmonic concept from the Seed of Fog (namely the fog) and could easily be stretched to use one or both of the others depending on how much voters want to trade cost for vulnerability,
  • Prepares for resurrection of the dead - even if Slann don't quite have the same relationship to gods that other Lizardmen do, divine aid certainly can't hurt,
  • Has great potential for expansion when we meet other races in the future (planning ahead!), and
  • Provides a possible means of undoing the current Chaotic state of the Immaterium - not through violence, but through inexorable tranquility.
That last one is a very much a stretch goal, but an appropriate one given the origin of the seed - with the right story-telling, Nantli'atl and how she came to be as she is could end up as sort of a cosmic-scale Briar Patching incident. The Old Ones made many things by harnessing the Sea of Dreams - perhaps the part of the Warp that remembered being a dreamy, tranquil place also remembered the children it bore them? What might a mother do, to protect her young?

She doesn't have swarms of crocodiles like Sotek has swarms of snakes - she's got cold mist for the environmental SFX and the not-yet-reincarnated in her care for swarming tactics. If a crocodile comes out of all that mist, it's one big one and it's an avatar of Nanti'atl herself (because the enemy has Done F*cked Up Now with her faithful). She's more a No-More-Combat deity than a Combat deity, though, so it's mostly just the mist that shows up.

Another thing to note is that Nantli'atl's mists aren't just her realm, they're also her. Like how Yog-Sothoth not only Knows The Gate and Is The Gate but also Is The Key And Guardian Of The Gate. When a soul is just standing around in the mist waiting for rebirth, or occasionally assisting priests when the mist is summoned, they are still being carried by Nantli'atl. It's like if Charon's (heavily armed) boat was also the river it crossed, and the people he was ferrying were also swimming (in the river, which was also his boat), and also Charon was his boat (and the river it crossed), and he didn't just drop his passengers off on the other side of the Styx but kept going somehow to the Lethe and only then let them off to reincarnate; except instead of a boatman and his boat and the river(s) it traveled, it was a giant white crocodile swimming in an endless realm of mist (which was also the crocodile) - look, it makes perfect sense to the super-intelligent frog mages who constructed Nantli'atl's narrative, okay?

Name origin: Nantli (Nahuatl word for mother) + atl (Nahuatl word for water).
Also has sound similarities to "natal" (added rebirth association) and "Nana" or "Auntie" (just slightly removed from Mother, if that relationship is too close to work).​
Question: Is she a mother of water (because fog precipitates into water), or a mother made of water (because Lizardmen are born from water and fog is a form of water)?​
Answer: 🐸 Yes.​

Idea for first prophet: Leucistic (because full albino is a cliche), probably a Kroxigor because of the Krox/Croc sound similarity but could be a Saurus because more of them are going to be in mortal peril soon. Remembers their previous life and death, being taken away to the afterlife of Nantli'atl, and being returned the spawning pool to be born into their current life. Either the leucism or the past-life/afterlife memories may end up being a distinguishing characteristic for all her priests. Name should be some kind of ghost-related reference or pun - my first thought is Kasp'r, but I'm sure there are better ideas out there.
 
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Approval voting - remember people, we're allowed to do this! You don't have to vote for just one thing, you can vote for all the things you don't mind winning!
I'll add this to the actual 'voting approved' threadmark. But yeah, reinforcing my own statements, approval voting is completely fine - in any of the votes in this quest that aren't labeled otherwise, come to think of it.
 
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Yeah, I don't mind being given something relatively broad to work with - only reason I'm asking for people's reasoning and such now is because I wanna make sure I convey your ideas as clearly as I can without accidentally misrepresenting them. Gods are basically a mini-story I can insert into the existing one, the character sheets are just for quick reference rather than being hard mechanical pillars.
Hm. I hope I didn't go too far with Calquetzqui, then?
 
[X] Nantli'atl, the White Crocodile, the Fog of Death and its Guardian
[X] Pactli, the Fog Hunter
[x] Ayotzl, the Mist Swimmer
[X] Protector/Psychopomp/Reverse-Psychopomp blend
-[X] No dividing focus with another major portfolio (like building)
-[X] Utilization of Fog preferred
-[X] Crocodile themes preferred

This is a better vote. I want Croc-Mom (mainly cause I just love Crocodiles)
 
[x] Ayotzl, the Mist Swimmer

[X] Nantli'atl, the White Crocodile, the Fog of Death and its Guardian

[X] Tlanalotl the Dawn Butterfly
 
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[X] Pactli, the Fog Hunter
[X] Tlanalotl the Dawn Butterfly
[X] Nantli'atl, the White Crocodile, the Fog of Death and its Guardian
 
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