Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] Accept Zhengui's offer. [Zhengui expends B Rank qi, receives minor cultivation penalty for the next turn.]

Let someone else take a knife to the throat and see how we reflect on that
 
Ok, so for those concerned about qi expenditure, I asked @yrsillar on discord and neither us nor Zhengui have used significant qi so far. Neither the scouting nor the tunnel rebuilding has been particularly draining - though he notes that our expenditure will likely increase as we run into higher security.

If Zhengui was less rejuvenation focused his expenditure might be more of an issue though.
 
The conversation with the fungus spirit was pretty cool. I like how it had descriptions for Ling Qi and each spirit but Sixiang. Ling Qi starting to understanding how to speak like that when talking to spirits is neat to see.
 
first roll to understand it, second roll to not come off too weak, last roll to determine price

Speaking of Abyssal Exhalation, I remember talk back in Forge of changing a few of its keywords to be more thematically appropriate for us (like Worms to Moths, and I think Hunger to Moon or something). Was that ever a serious consideration, or have we mostly just given up on it?
it's dead jim
Less meme-y answer: it was considered as 'AE's last possible chance to be viable', but it's pretty obviously too much of a stretch to cultivate an art specifically to change it into something else. Potentially an interesting character action—it takes a very special curiosity to take in and internalize a philosophy that you specifically disagree with in order to try to shape it into something you prefer, rather than just studying something that you like in the first place—but very suboptimal in terms of advancement, and therefore dead in the water.
I like how it had descriptions for Ling Qi and each spirit but Sixiang.
Pretty sure that Silver Dreams is Sixiang.
 
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It's a shame our rolls didn't cooperate with one of the main goals of the sympathetic approach- Ling Qi borderline failed to empathize with the entity, derailing the effort into a watered-down Confident Approach. Between the rolls and Sixiang's help, MoSS didn't get to show its stuff. This line in particular is basically a bald MoSS-failure "It wasn't quite the same as conveying something with music, if only because she wasn't certain she could really understand the creatures perspective well enough to convey her feelings to it." since that's what the art is supposed to do, but Ling Qi needs Sixiang to fill in instead.

But not everything's always going to go smoothly. Was nice to see Sixiang pulling their weight, and the new speech skill is nice. All of these vote options suck, there're no "good" choices, but that's okay too.

[] Refuse, try to offer something lesser still [Ling Qi expends B Rank qi, and permanently lose one of (Abyssal Exhalation, Fallen Star, Argent Storm and Argent Current. Requires a roll of 60+)
This is easily the worst option, even if it didn't require a roll. We shouldn't be trading away portions of our cultivation foundation, even if they're irrelevant, precisely because we know that cultivation narrows and requires cutting away things as one advances. We should never, ever, willingly chip away at past efforts unless they're actually standing in the way of our progress. To volunteer for it, even with "irrelevant" things we've worked on in the past is extraordinarily reckless.

[] Accept Zhengui's offer. [Zhengui expends B Rank qi, receives minor cultivation penalty for the next turn.]
I really don't like how this vote is framed compared to Ling Qi's two. It's comparatively vague, not just mechanically but also thematically. There's no characterization of the impact on Zhengui's cultivation, which lends itself to a reading, whether intentional or not, that the impact is less significant or relevant than Ling Qi's penalty would be. I strongly doubt that the cost would be any less to him than it would be for her. The lack of description echoes past habits of trivializing or deprioritizing his concerns.

For that reason, I don't find the "lets Zhengui make sacrifices too" narrative argument convincing. It's letting him sacrifice his growth, which is at the very core of what Ling Qi needs to learn to value in others as strength of her own, as aptly summarized by Alingge. Adopting a calculus that weighs his sacrifice as less harmful, rather than his contributions as equally valid, is fraught, and I'm not certain we're firmly in the territory of the second rather than the first.

However, that's not to say this option doesn't offer narrative opportunities. One of my complaints is that Ling Qi doesn't really pay attention to Zhengui more than superficially. Directly observing an heretofore unknown dream/aspiration/motivation/goal of Zhengui's in the process of him giving it up for destruction to our benefit is a good way to learn something new about the guy and drive home to Ling Qi the significance of his internal world. Seeing an aspiration only in the context of its literal, metaphysical, destruction is poignant. I'd expect the experience to keep her focused on the mission, but in a contemplative way.

[X] Do it yourself and offer a Dream of songs and starless nights, [Ling Qi expends B rank qi, receives a -.2 multiplier to spiritual cultivation for the next turn.]
I mean, it'd suck for cultivation, but I don't see any particular reason to care about it beyond that. "Songs and starless nights" doesn't track strongly to imminent narratively prominent projects, that I can think of. There definitely are songs we're planning to cultivate, but, like, a looooot of them. Enough that it kind of melds together. Plus, losing a Dream of songs is a bit different from exploring the codified meaning of Music Arts.

[] Do it yourself and offer a dream of motion and bright days, [Ling Qi expends B rank qi, receives a -.2 multiplier to physical cultivation for the next turn.]
This, however, screams really strongly of Laughing Flight of the Wind Thief to me. Even if there isn't a mechanical penalty attached to it, capturing the joy and freedom of Wind Thief's windier movement style is something that feels a little fragile in Ling Qi, not unlike Ling Qi's shave with misunderstanding PLR. Rote learning is something she can plod through regardless, but the properly fun attitude for the art isn't a guarantee. Walking into the first turn of its cultivation with this option hanging around our neck is hobbling that narrative.
 
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it's pretty obviously too much of a stretch to cultivate an art specifically to change it into something else.
And if we were going to do that, I suspect Coldfire Blade Foundations would get more support as a starting point.

Don't think that's going to happen either, though, even if I do think Ling Qi learning to modify and create her own arts is pretty critical, and attempts to get away with holding to archive or loot arts through our entire time at the Sect are false economy.
 
[X] Accept Zhengui's offer. [Zhengui expends B Rank qi, receives minor cultivation penalty for the next turn.]
 
[X] Accept Zhengui's offer. [Zhengui expends B Rank qi, receives minor cultivation penalty for the next turn.]
 
Welp fungal uncle was a bust, and another lesson never to tempt the Great Spirit RNGesus.
On the other hand I do like the idea of getting Zhengui the spotlight for the promise even if its not ideal, gets him shiner that he can brag to people and my inner ork gives em the thumbs up LETS GEET THE FUNGUS TO CHOKE ON OUR BOIS DREAM

[X] Accept Zhengui's offer. [Zhengui expends B Rank qi, receives minor cultivation penalty for the next turn.]
 
Y'know, I want to say that I'm surprised you're suddenly making an about-face and arguing that we shouldn't go for the option which aligns the closest with Ling Qi's promise to Zhengui, but I'm really not.

Weren't you arguing not that long ago that if we kept ignoring options which directly involve Zhengui, when would we ever stop, or something to that effect?
 
[X] Do it yourself and offer a Dream of songs and starless nights, [Ling Qi expends B rank qi, receives a -.2 multiplier to spiritual cultivation for the next turn.]

@AbeoLogos makes a good point about how the physical cultivation one sounds eerily like LFTW, and how its narrative presence next turn means those shouldn't be sacrificed.

About Zhengui, I am glad this won't mean he will be useless before the fight, but this is not letting him step up. This is simply being afraid of Ling Qi having to pay for her own negotiations. Zhengui is currently doing a lot, and is going to be doing a lot more when the fighting start-especially if he doesn't lose Qi.

Him sacrificing himself for Ling Qi right now feels too much like telling him that he needs to sacrifice himself to be a good enough son brother, rather than actually working with him and letting him be awesome. That, and the longer term cultivation penalty is going to cause issues.

If you believe that building tunnels is the only part of the mission that matters, then sure. But we have stealth infiltration ahead, that Zhengui will sit out, and we have a fighting part later in which both will participate. And unlike building tunnels, noone can take Ling Qi's job in infiltration.
Huh... infiltration is Liao Zhu as well as Ling Qi, and unlike infiltration, none can take Zhengui's jobs for tunnels.

More seriously, neither will take much Qi as it's confirmed. The combat will, but Zhengui has much less Qi than Ling Qi there.
Y'know, I want to say that I'm surprised you're suddenly making an about-face and arguing that we shouldn't go for the option which aligns the closest with Ling Qi's promise to Zhengui, but I'm really not.

Weren't you arguing not that long ago that if we kept ignoring options which directly involve Zhengui, when would we ever stop, or something to that effect?
It doesn't align at all with those promises though. In fact, it goes against them, as like Zhengui doesn't want Ling Qi to sacrifice herself for him, the same should apply in reverse. 'Accepting' his offer just means we ignore what actually made him suffer.

Sounds like you want a Ling Qi who didn't just get the Sincere Negotiator skill.
I'm a huge, huge fan of that skill, and have been rooting for it since people have been doomsaying about what honesty means. This has no relevance to wanting a Ling Qi who, once a negotiation is complete, goes above and beyond.

So why should we do more damage to ourselves to fulfil a deal in a way that makes absolutely no difference to the one we're dealing with (a neutral at best predator)? The characterisation that establishes isn't someone who puts in extra effort to complete their tasks/deals. That's a dangerously self sacrificing idiot.

Which to be fair is not completely out of keeping with Ling Qi's characterisation :sad: but not something I want to encourage.
I think it's important that when a deal is agreed on, Ling Qi goes above and beyond. Not just going about the letter of the deal but the spirit. Making the deal, however, doesn't need to be done in such a way.
 
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[X] Accept Zhengui's offer. [Zhengui expends B Rank qi, receives minor cultivation penalty for the next turn.]

I'm a huge, huge fan of that skill, and have been rooting for it since people have been doomsaying about what honesty means. This has no relevance to wanting a Ling Qi who, once a negotiation is complete, goes above and beyond.

You didn't read it or the lesson.
 
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[X] Accept Zhengui's offer. [Zhengui expends B Rank qi, receives minor cultivation penalty for the next turn.]

EDIT: speech:intimidate would've been fiiine, we have FSS to fall back on for that. Also Meizhen. It wouldn't have been regression at all, nope.
 
Him sacrificing himself for Ling Qi right now feels too much like telling him that he needs to sacrifice himself to be a good enough son brother, rather than actually working with him and letting him be awesome. That, and the longer term cultivation penalty is going to cause issues.

It's him imitating LQ. She's a self-sacrificing idiot so he's trying to be one as well. Letting him do so helps build empathy for him and our cultivation technique means that a short term penalty to his cultivation for a closer relationship is a great long-term investment.
 
[X] Do it yourself and offer a Dream of songs and starless nights, [Ling Qi expends B rank qi, receives a -.2 multiplier to spiritual cultivation for the next turn.]

It's losing, therefore I'm obligated to pick it

A more serious reason would be that I don't care much about Ling Qi's cultivation progress, specifically her spiritual side. I don't like that our physical is being treated as the first option to dump on when it's already pretty far behind.

I do understand however the concern about "oh, Ling Qi's doing stuff by herself again and not relying on Zhengui".

[] Accept Zhengui's offer. [Zhengui expends B Rank qi, receives minor cultivation penalty for the next turn.]
forgot to put X's

Speech Skill evolves
Sincere Negotiator- Honesty is not naivety and sincerity does not mean showing your whole hand. A skill to speak and negotiate with honest intent while maintaining your advantages.
HA

No white lies my foot
 
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