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[Mafia] A Murder of Crows

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UnderlingMaster said:
I'm not getting anywhere with arguing with you, Terrabrand. It doesn't seem like anyone else is really following the argument. I'm pretty sure you're a jackdaw, and basically everything you've done makes sense from that lens, while I struggle to see your motivation from any other perspective.
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and this kind of shit is why I was explaining things from the IF Jackdaw perspective once accused dude. You're literally not willing to even consider that you're perspective might be wrong, me explaining things like moves I'd be making as jackdaw and why I'm playing as I am? Totally ignored by you.

It's not that my actions don't make sense for town. It's that you refuse to consider anything I'm saying at all.

UnderlingMaster said:
Here's what I propose:

Everyone willing to follow the plan votes for themselves today.

Anyone who is not voting for themselves by the end of the day is on the List.

Tomorrow, when I will surely be dead and revealed as a crow, vote for someone on the List, in this order:
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dude this plan is shit. if I was a jackdaw, if I actually was a jackdaw, and thought people might follow your plan, I'd be self voting right now.

you have literally delivered the jackdaws the perfect excuse to self vote. There are ten votes on you.

Your plan lets the jackdaws drop off you if they're on you and self vote and point to 'would a jackdaw self vote with this plan in place??' at tremendously little risk.

I can't even thank you for giving a scumreads list, because you're still fixated exclusively on the jackdaws, the least threat to us.

As OriginalName I think pointed out, your plan most benefits the Ravens. Because. We're hunting exclusively a faction that threatens them and not them.



in fact, the easiest explanation I have for UnderlingMaster's last several hours of play is he's a Raven in anti spew mode. He wants to stick to only rating people by Jackdawness and only by a metric he's already provided so when he flips Raven, his entire team doesn't have to worry about being caught as weirdly protected by him.

If he's actually town, he should be giving his best guesses for magpies and Ravens and not continuing to turn the entire end of day into KILL THE JACKDAWS KILL THE JACKDAWS MAKE SURE YOU LYNCH TERRA FIRST which makes this day a waste for town, the faction that most depends on day play to get associations etc.
 
NSMS said:
You've been arguing in a way that sets off huge numbers of alarm flags to anybody even mildly familiar with the genre, you're trying to convince people to follow a plan despite it having huge flaws that have been actively pointed out to you, and you post as if you're completely unaware of the reasons why people find your behaviour suspicious.
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But it's different from other games in the genre, because of the day votes.

The reasons come down to people not being willing to agree to it, though it would work if we could get people to agree to it besides the jackdaws.

But since I am the sacrificial lamb, I'm hoping we can change enough minds.
 
Terrabrand said:
...

and this kind of shit is why I was explaining things from the IF Jackdaw perspective once accused dude. You're literally not willing to even consider that you're perspective might be wrong, me explaining things like moves I'd be making as jackdaw and why I'm playing as I am? Totally ignored by you.

It's not that my actions don't make sense for town. It's that you refuse to consider anything I'm saying at all.


dude this plan is shit. if I was a jackdaw, if I actually was a jackdaw, and thought people might follow your plan, I'd be self voting right now.

you have literally delivered the jackdaws the perfect excuse to self vote. There are ten votes on you.

Your plan lets the jackdaws drop off you if they're on you and self vote and point to 'would a jackdaw self vote with this plan in place??' at tremendously little risk.

I can't even thank you for giving a scumreads list, because you're still fixated exclusively on the jackdaws, the least threat to us.

As OriginalName I think pointed out, your plan most benefits the Ravens. Because. We're hunting exclusively a faction that threatens them and not them.



in fact, the easiest explanation I have for UnderlingMaster's last several hours of play is he's a Raven in anti spew mode. He wants to stick to only rating people by Jackdawness and only by a metric he's already provided so when he flips Raven, his entire team doesn't have to worry about being caught as weirdly protected by him.

If he's actually town, he should be giving his best guesses for magpies and Ravens and not continuing to turn the entire end of day into KILL THE JACKDAWS KILL THE JACKDAWS MAKE SURE YOU LYNCH TERRA FIRST which makes this day a waste for town, the faction that most depends on day play to get associations etc.
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Self vote and you won't be voted tomorrow. Simple.

Even if I give my reads, people won't be willing to trust them anyway. I don't really have any raven or magpie reads, anyway.
 
[X] Peck UnderlingMaster

The plan would eat every lynch until D5, with Jackdaws having complete control of the odd lynches. (Swap at the last minute D2>Kill D3>swap D4>kill D5). Yes, town wants Jackdaws dead, but town also wants to hunt in general and learn about players, not spend most of the game for sure wiping out one team while most likely just helping the other 2.

I have no real read on UM, and wouldn't be surprised by much any flip (besides Jackdaw), as I think bad town logic explains this as cleanly as scum logic, but this seems to be the way we're going here.
 
Shadell said:
[X] Peck UnderlingMaster

The plan would eat every lynch until D5, with Jackdaws having complete control of the odd lynches. (Swap at the last minute D2>Kill D3>swap D4>kill D5). Yes, town wants Jackdaws dead, but town also wants to hunt in general and learn about players, not spend most of the game for sure wiping out one team while most likely just helping the other 2.

I have no real read on UM, and wouldn't be surprised by much any flip (besides Jackdaw), as I think bad town logic explains this as cleanly as scum logic, but this seems to be the way we're going here.
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If the list is short enough then it won't eat many lynches at all.
 
The plan may be ineffective, but you only have anything to fear if you are a jackdaw. If a jackdaw flips onto you and kills you then at least we'll know they were a jackdaw.

The worst thing that can happen with this plan is nobody participates.
 
mesonoxian said:
How is TMR's vote more troubling than the other half dozen on UM?
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I was making a false assumption about hammer. Without TMR's vote, we were in the exact range for hammer with one Jackdaw on UM. So his jump seemed like a last second jump. I wanted to see if hammer Bad already dropped or not. Afterwards his vote would have been more informative.
But as IH told me, hammer is player dependant not vote dependant.
So @TheMaskedReader, ignore me please. ;)
 
Shadell said:
[X] Peck UnderlingMaster

The plan would eat every lynch until D5, with Jackdaws having complete control of the odd lynches. (Swap at the last minute D2>Kill D3>swap D4>kill D5). Yes, town wants Jackdaws dead, but town also wants to hunt in general and learn about players, not spend most of the game for sure wiping out one team while most likely just helping the other 2.

I have no real read on UM, and wouldn't be surprised by much any flip (besides Jackdaw), as I think bad town logic explains this as cleanly as scum logic, but this seems to be the way we're going here.
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If you self vote, what are you afraid of?
 
UnderlingMaster said:
The plan may be ineffective, but you only have anything to fear if you are a jackdaw. If a jackdaw flips onto you and kills you then at least we'll know they were a jackdaw.

The worst thing that can happen with this plan is nobody participates.
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If nobody participates then it does nothing at all. And, well, with the way things are going...

My advice? If you're actually one of us, a Crow, then stop pushing for your pie-in-the-sky plan that's never going to happen and instead try to contribute something useful. Because at this point it's all but guaranteed that you're going to be lynched and that nobody is going to follow your sugestions.
 
UnderlingMaster said:
Self vote and you won't be voted tomorrow. Simple.

Even if I give my reads, people won't be willing to trust them anyway. I don't really have any raven or magpie reads, anyway.
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As the principle of the matter, I ain't self voting here because it's pure performative nonsense. Me voting myself now proves nothing because it's clear I'm in no danger if I do, so it'd just be totemic nonsense of the worst sort. Just out of pride I refuse to falsely clear myself off a totemic vote. I have better ideas how to prove it if it actually comes down to it anyways.

and you're literally destroying the value of the day here dude. if you're actually a crow, you know we'll know that your reads were earnest, that your best guesses were not disingenuous. This just reads like an excuse for raven/magpie/jackdaw to not spew people they need alive.

UnderlingMaster said:
Crows get priority on collecting shiny things once the jackdaws are gone.
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who cares we get 9 goddamn steals per night if we preserve numbers which is why we need scum dead to keep in control of the lynch and keep our steal count up and their counts down.

UnderlingMaster said:
The plan may be ineffective, but you only have anything to fear if you are a jackdaw. If a jackdaw flips onto you and kills you then at least we'll know they were a jackdaw.

The worst thing that can happen with this plan is nobody participates.
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or, and bear with me because you keep ignoring this, you could be a crow who doesn't want to literally, strictly, 100% shield both the Ravens and the Magpies who are the most capable of fucking us over late if left untouched.

making sure the lynches will be crow or jackdaw is like, hugely anti town here because town can handle 2 unscathed jackdaws longer than 4 unscathed ravens or the lone magpie getting the shinies.
 
NSMS said:
If nobody participates then it does nothing at all. And, well, with the way things are going...

My advice? If you're actually one of us, a Crow, then stop pushing for your pie-in-the-sky plan that's never going to happen and instead try to contribute something useful. Because at this point it's all but guaranteed that you're going to be lynched and that nobody is going to follow your sugestions.
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The worst case scenario is the same as what was going to happen anyway, the best case scenario is we uncover both jackdaws.

It doesn't matter if it's probably not going to work, you have nothing to gain by not following it.
 
Terrabrand said:
As the principle of the matter, I ain't self voting here because it's pure performative nonsense. Me voting myself now proves nothing because it's clear I'm in no danger if I do, so it'd just be totemic nonsense of the worst sort. Just out of pride I refuse to falsely clear myself off a totemic vote. I have better ideas how to prove it if it actually comes down to it anyways.

and you're literally destroying the value of the day here dude. if you're actually a crow, you know we'll know that your reads were earnest, that your best guesses were not disingenuous. This just reads like an excuse for raven/magpie/jackdaw to not spew people they need alive.


who cares we get 9 goddamn steals per night if we preserve numbers which is why we need scum dead to keep in control of the lynch and keep our steal count up and their counts down.



or, and bear with me because you keep ignoring this, you could be a crow who doesn't want to literally, strictly, 100% shield both the Ravens and the Magpies who are the most capable of fucking us over late if left untouched.

making sure the lynches will be crow or jackdaw is like, hugely anti town here because town can handle 2 unscathed jackdaws longer than 4 unscathed ravens or the lone magpie getting the shinies.
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What principle? You know this would work if enough people did it, and nothing bad will happen if not enough people do it.
 
UnderlingMaster said:
The worst case scenario is the same as what was going to happen anyway, the best case scenario is we uncover both jackdaws.

It doesn't matter if it's probably not going to work, you have nothing to gain by not following it.
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Let me make this clear.

NOBODY. Absolutely NOBODY. Is going to follow your plan at this point. Stop trying to persuade people to go along with it, because all you're doing is wasting your own time and ours when we could be putting it towards something usefu.
 
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End of Day 1
  • Threadmarks
    • After a great deal of unproductive cawing, beaks point to UnderlingMaster, and the flock starts to feel peckish.
    Sadly, upon inspecting the corpse, they find themselves eating Crow.

    But wait, what's that? They actually did have a Shiny Thing! Haha! Vengance!
    But quick as it becomes visible, a beak snatches it up!

    This, of course, prompts another furor, but more peckings will have to wait for another day. For now, the flock adjourns to their nests, where they will certainly be sleeping all night and not trying to rob each other.
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Beginning of Night 1
  • Threadmarks
    • What's this? Everyone is still awake? How odd! It couldn't be that anyone was attempting theft, could it?

    This prompts furious denials, which are immediately belied by the blatant plotting of theft.
    It seems there is not a single honest bird amongst you!
    Still, it's not really theft if the bird you're stealing from stole it first, right...?

    The Corvidae family flock is not well known for their information security, and it seems those holding the shiny things can't help but brag about it.
    The rumor mill seems convinced that the Jackdaws now hold two Shiny Things, and the Ravens have one.

    Night One will end
     
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