Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Alright, the arguments have convinced me. Switching to PLR plans.

[X] Plan: Moonlit Foundation
[X] Plan: In the Name of the Moon!
[X] Plan Dancing Moon
 
  • This means the plan not only pre-commits turn 9's single free AP to PLR, leaving us at potential (though lower now) risk in terms of spiritual[1], we also stay meridian-starved and will have to spend G4 AP (each more valuable by ~70 dice) on meridian actions just to keep up with art levels we'll want to pick up.
I'll note that it doesn't *technically* do this. As I noted, it really just gives us the option of PLR7 in turn 9 if we want it. We could always look at PLR7, and decide we don't want it that much and go and spend that AP on meridians or something in Turn 9 instead.

Edit:
Ok, and with HDW being brought down to 1 AP from omake, I've now moved that AP over to meridians.
 
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We should have currently 44 meridians, so 6AP would take us to 5x2 = 54 (softcap reached) +1 (from last AP). Considering we don't know how post softcap meridian works, and how we don't yet have the wand for them (I think?) this means that we really shouldn't go and do 6AP of meridians, I think.
We have 45 actually, 4AP is the maximum we can spend on the (minimum) softcap). The idea for the other 2 is to be used on scrunch or single-AP-per opening depending on difficulty/plans.

With all these AP kind of starting to go spare, I like the idea of spending one AP on SNR. If I'm doing the calcs right, 1 AP of SNR this turn + 4 AP next turn with 60 dice bonus each gives a 48% chance of SNR 4 being reached, which would be a strong boost to its early showing.
I'd object to this on efficiency grounds, if we want Unbroken Will S (and we do) we'll need 17 dice there, and we're only getting 3-4 turns of SNR total (including dark turn). Plus general loss of efficiency in training something that'll get much faster with SSC levels and 4 extra GSS compared to meridian AP.
 
[X] Plan: In the Name of the Moon!
[X] Plan Dancing Moon

[X] Plan: Moonlit Foundation
-[X] equip Songseeker's Ceremony
-[X] switch Inquisitive Study to Upkeep 2
-[X] Medium Pills (free)
-[X] Resources: 12 GSS, 12 YSS (4 free GSS, 8 from cash, 12 free YSS) , Drip on Spiritual Cultivation
-[X] Physical Cultivation (4 AP)
-[X] Spiritual Cultivation (4 AP)
-[X] Phantasmagoria of Lunar Revelry (2 AP)
-[X] Roaming Moon's Eye (1 AP)
-[X] Harmony of the Dancing Wind (1 AP)
-[X] Meridians (6 AP, tbd after archive results)
-[X] Research Arts in Sect Archive, Third Floor (1 AP, 20 SP)
-[X] Family (1 AP)

Why did moon/PLR start winning?
 
Why did moon/PLR start winning?
Mostly because of this post, I think, which points out that Darkness month gets us a lot of arts but that we can't actually equip them yet, so its long-term strength isn't really useful in the short term. Since we need both a PLR month and a Darkness month to be our next two months, it makes more mechanical and narrative sense to do the PLR one first.

Also maybe we'll resolve the heart demon before it's time to crunch Darkness :S
Alright. So. As @DeAnno points out, @Black Noise noise was somewhat optimistic in terms of what we can actually equip in the Darkness month. We can't equip SNR. We can't equip UGM. We can only equip BKSD if it's clearly better than FVM. This is not only awkward, but also kinda blueballs us on all our all the arts. "Yay, let's train all our new arts!" "and not equip or use them :sadface:".

It has been argued that it's stronger for combat, but, as I noted earlier, that's highly questionable. The upgrades we've gotten for PLR6 are very strong and make it very useful. It makes it a good defensive field, helping both us and our allies, gives us some cool repositioning abilities, and gives us even stronger CC. It is exceedingly helpful for group combat, and could actually start to make PLR useful. HDW also, as noted, provides some buffs that may not be the strongest - but do not have any limitations in terms of how many people they can affect. If we're getting into larger scale engagements this could be very useful.

In contrast, the Darkness plan provides us with a stronger solo/stealth upgrade. LFWT + ENM5 would be very effective there. Frankly, I'd be inclined to just go with unequip PLR in favor of ENM all the time rather than just for stealth because PLR5 is kinda bleh and we never use it. However, this is kinda awkward given the PLR development plot we just picked up. It's also very awkward given our recent stuff about trying to focus more on working with our allies rather than going max solo operator all the time. It's thematically discordant with the narrative, and will also be really awkward at showing our gains. We'll train all the new darkness arts - and then won't be able to use them. We'll open the meridians to use them next turn at the same time as trying to do the PLR plot, and thus muddy both of them.

Overall? From a combat strength standpoint both have their merits. One is stronger for solo/stealth work, while the other is stronger for group work. It depends what you think the biggest issue here is (nb. we can already hit S stealth). However, from a narrative standpoint I would argue that PLR now is clearly more fitting. It plays into both its arc and works better for the whole teamwork issue - as well as capping and possibly slotting HDW which we wanted because of the cool connections themes - also very appropriate for the current story arc and our heart demon.
 
[X] Plan: Moonlit Foundation
[X] Plan Dancing Moon

In general I like opening meridians earlier, and Name of the Moon doesn't need more votes now anyways.
 
[X] Plan: Moonlit Foundation
[X] Plan: In the Name of the Moon!
[x] Plan Dancing Moon

am I allowed to just vote again and this will overrite previous vote? or nah?
 
[X] Plan: Moonlit Foundation
[X] Plan: In the Name of the Moon!
[x] Plan Dancing Moon

am I allowed to just vote again and this will overrite previous vote? or nah?
Yes. You can also edit your previous post where you voted. The important thing is that your most recent post in the thread has your true vote.
 
For the record, Yrs allowed some of the deferred AP to be used on an art we'd get from this archive dive as per:
discord said:
Black NoiseYesterday at 11:47 PM
though that reminds me, @Yrsillar would using some of the AP set aside for later voting on a new art from the archive dive be possible?

Erebeal, I amYesterday at 11:47 PM
if we fall below max GSS then that's fine

YrsillarYesterday at 11:47 PM
Mm, I'd allow that at

Erebeal, I amYesterday at 11:47 PM
trying to stay at max GSS by spending more AP than we actually gain from those GSS is bad

YrsillarYesterday at 11:47 PM
[] 1 AP for chosen archive art or something

So maybe the current difference between plan sailor moon and foundation can be deferred to a later vote between 2AP PLR vs meridians vs new art. If @Erebeal approves for their plan and @yrsillar allows since it's 2AP under debate and not 1.
 
For the record, Yrs allowed some of the deferred AP to be used on an art we'd get from this archive dive as per:


So maybe the current difference between plan sailor moon and foundation can be deferred to a later vote between 2AP PLR vs meridians vs new art. If @Erebeal approves for their plan and @yrsillar allows since it's 2AP under debate and not 1.
If it comes to an additional later vote, I gotta say I'd lean towards meridians. IICR, one of the main arguments for the PLR plan was that it only made sense to get our new shiny Darkness arts once we could actually equip them. And we could only equip all of them after getting some more meridians. Thats one of the only reasons I'm okay with PLR plan winning over Darkness plan (other than argument for narrative continuity what with PLR and Six and all that. its a good point). So personally I'd rather prioritize new meridians +scrunching.
 
If it comes to an additional later vote, I gotta say I'd lean towards meridians. IICR, one of the main arguments for the PLR plan was that it only made sense to get our new shiny Darkness arts once we could actually equip them. And we could only equip all of them after getting some more meridians. Thats one of the only reasons I'm okay with PLR plan winning over Darkness plan (other than argument for narrative continuity what with PLR and Six and all that. its a good point). So personally I'd rather prioritize new meridians +scrunching.
All the plans open enough meridian for darkness turns anyway. The meridians in question BN is talking about are extra stuff we won't need for another 4+ turns.
For the record, Yrs allowed some of the deferred AP to be used on an art we'd get from this archive dive as per:


So maybe the current difference between plan sailor moon and foundation can be deferred to a later vote between 2AP PLR vs meridians vs new art. If @Erebeal approves for their plan and @yrsillar allows since it's 2AP under debate and not 1.
I mean, that's not what's into question? That would more be 1AP Meridian vs new arts. Not sure why the PLR AP would be in question at all there. The extra AP is what's been 'added' because of HDW omake, not the 2PLR AP.
 
A possible future of the Gu house
A Possible Future in the Gu house

As the vault doors creaked open Gu Lin felt her eyes widen. She would have to work on that. Mother always had control over her reactions. Something else to add to her checklist. Grandpa's cane clicked pleasantly against stone as he stepped into the warm air of the vault. She followed right behind and craned her neck. Beautiful weapons hung next to carefully protected tomes. Wonders she had only dreamed about arrayed themselves around her in a choreographed dance frozen in time. This was only the first vault. She couldn't even imagine what the greater vaults held. Finally grandpa's voice broke the rhythm of his cane.

"This is the first of many vaults. Someday, if you prove worthy, you will be allowed to pick something from here. This is a taste of what may come. Since you have shown proper motivation in the arts of cultivation the family has decided to offer you greater incentives. You have reached red soul, but don't be content. The first step is never the hardest."

Gu Lin bowed demurely and said, "Of course Grandfather. I will take your words to heart."

Grandpa turned his head and smiled. "Go on then. Scurry off. I will be right behind you. If you have questions I will answer."

Gu Lin smiled back. The ritual was over and now she could have fun. She dashed off through the frozen dance with laughter bubbling from her throat. She was a cultivator now! Jumping from display to display Gu Lin dashed through the vault looking at anything that caught her eye. Finally, she collapsed onto the warm stone and tried her best to pant past her smile. Grandpa's face shaded her as he leaned over her.

"Well that was an exciting run." Grandpa said. "I haven't seen someone have that much energy in the vault in a long time. Are the stones still warm?"

Gu Lin nodded vigorously. Her hair, having become disarrayed, whipped around her.

Grandpa snorted. "If your mother saw your hair now she would have a fit. Lucky for us she isn't here." Slowly he laid down on the stone. "Which means I can get away with this! Ahh… this feels good on my back. You almost tuckered me out there with your running little spitfire."

Gu Lin twisted her neck and smiled at grandpa. She knew that was a lie. Grandpa was the strongest. Before she could go back to enjoying the warmth of the stone she saw something almost sparkle past grandpa's bald head. "What's that grandpa?" She asked.

"Hmm..?"

"That. Right there." Gu Lin got up and walked over to the small display case. Inside, resting on a velvet pillow, was a small pendant. It was carved to look like a dancing flame and had a wonderful array of different reds. From pink near the edges all the way to an almost black crimson near the base. The only thing that seemed to flaw the delicate piece was a faded section near the middle. It looked like a thumb had rested on that spot so many times that the colors had faded.

"Ahh… that piece." Grandpa's voice broke through her trance. "It's a wonderful little piece isn't it."

"What's it do grandpa?"

"It plays a song."

"A song?" Gu Lin looked around. "That's it? That doesn't sound very…"

"Interesting?" Grandpa chuckled. "Perhaps not. But it was a valued treasure of your ancestor Gu Xiulan."

"Xiulan owned this!" Gu Lin felt her cheeks heat up as she realized she had yelled right at grandpa.

"Hahaha! Yes your hero Xiulan. I still remember when you kids would fight over who got to be Xiulan in the little games you played." Grandpa's sudden pose made Gu Lin throw her face into her hands. "I am Xiulan. I shall burn away your evil!"

"Grandpa!!" Gu Lin whined as she peeked through her hands. "That's so embarrassing! I'm not a kid anymore! I'm a cultivator! I don't do that kid stuff anymore."

Grandpa's gnarled hand mussed her hair up even more. "Sorry sorry." He said with a smile. "Would you like to hear the song?"

Gu Lin nodded through her hands as she struggled to control her blush.

"Alright."

With the pendant in his hand a lovely melody began to play. It sounded nice, but something itched at Gu Lin. There was something that she was missing in the song. As she looked at grandpa's pleased face she knew he could hear something that she couldn't. When the song finally petered out she asked her question.

"Grandpa…" She started hesitantly. "That was a very nice song, but why…"

"Why is it in this vault?" Grandpa said. "The paths of cultivation are beyond counting. We of the Gu focus on the strength and purity of flame to guide us, but not every family does so. Some cultivators have music as part of their path. To those cultivators music is far more than just sound. Just as fire is far more than just heat to a Gu. To truly hear the message left behind in this recording you will need to be at a certain level of spiritual strength."

Gu Lin nodded at grandpa's words. "I think I understand grandpa."

"Hmm… I don't think you do, yet. Someday you will. But not today. Enough talk of things above your years. There is another reason this recording is in the vault."

"What is it grandpa?"

"What do you know of the ancient cultivator Ling Qi?"

Gu Lin blinked at the sudden shift in topic. "She was an immensely strong cultivator that founded the Ling family. We have been strong allies with them since their inception. Going on trade missions to their home is considered a mark of honor and gives those that go a chance to meditate on the rare aspect of fire the Living Mountain possess. Beyond that I do not know much."

Grandpa fiddled with his beard before responding. "Good good. That is all true, but a key part of Ling Qi's path was music. Some who incorporate music into their paths leave many recordings of themselves behind. Not so with Ling Qi. Each recording that she left is sought after by those that wish to study her works or simply collect her songs. The recording we just used is the first one she ever made."

Gu Lin scrunched her nose. "So some people think the song is valuable?"

Grandpa chuckled. "I wonder how many hearts would break at the dismissive tone you took at Honorable Ling Qi's work. But, yes. Every century or so some collector will approach us and offer great treasures for the recording."

"Why haven't we sold it than?" She asked.

Grandpa smiled down at her. "The message the song gives was meant for Xiulan. Even though ancestor Xiulan is long gone we respect her wishes. It is a link between us and the trials our ancestors endured to become the symbols they are today. Soon you will learn even more about your hero and her adventures."

"When grandpa!?" Gu Lin could feel her energy returning as they turned away from the small pendant resting on a velvet cushion.

"When you finally finish your math assignment I think."

The groan echoed in the vault long after the doors closed and the light giving formations turned off.

A.N
Omake for the Omake throne @yrsillar
It's been a while since I wrote an omake for this story but this idea wouldn't leave me. Please enjoy!
 
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If it comes to an additional later vote, I gotta say I'd lean towards meridians. IICR, one of the main arguments for the PLR plan was that it only made sense to get our new shiny Darkness arts once we could actually equip them. And we could only equip all of them after getting some more meridians. Thats one of the only reasons I'm okay with PLR plan winning over Darkness plan (other than argument for narrative continuity what with PLR and Six and all that. its a good point). So personally I'd rather prioritize new meridians +scrunching.
We will have enough meridians for that regardless. The extra slots are just for more flexibility.

As noted, we only *need* 6 more rn, 8 (what the plan currently has) gets us to the (maybe) softcap, and 12 is a little ??, but those AP could also be spent on meridian scrunching or, as BN noted, potentially a new archive art.

I'm personally fine with the @Black Noise's idea, but then I was never attached to PLR7 in the first place and it really depends on others at this point?

Basically, the idea here would be that we could just make the plan:


[] Plan: The Moon Cannot Be Chained!
-[] equip Songseeker's Ceremony
-[] switch Inquisitive Study to Upkeep 2
-[] Medium Pills (free)
-[] Resources: 12 GSS, 12 YSS (4 free GSS, 8 from cash, 12 free YSS) , Drip on Spiritual Cultivation
-[] Physical Cultivation (4 AP)
-[] Spiritual Cultivation (4 AP)
-[] Phantasmagoria of Lunar Revelry (2 AP)
-[] Roaming Moon's Eye (1 AP)
-[] Harmony of the Dancing Wind (1 AP)
-[] Meridians (4 AP, tbd after archive results)
-[] Meridians/scrunching/PLR/new archive art (2 AP, tbd after archive results)
-[] Research Arts in Sect Archive, Third Floor (1 AP, 20 SP)
-[] Family (1 AP)

Which would basically eliminate the differences between all the PLR plans for the moment.
 
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Which would basically eliminate the differences between all the PLR plans for the moment.
While I like RME, the main reason I am voting for your plan is that it gives a very solid possibility of PLR7 next turn. Deleting the 2PLR AP necessary for that for ?? meridians feels off. There is already, as mentioned, an extra AP in the meridian (4 instead of 3). If there is need to be flexibility for archive vote, just use that one?

Having a change of the plan at this time just seems like a sneaky way to make PLR7 less likely, especially as it 'default' to 4AP of meridians for unknown reason.
 
While I like RME, the main reason I am voting for your plan is that it gives a very solid possibility of PLR7 next turn. Deleting the 2PLR AP necessary for that for ?? meridians feels off. There is already, as mentioned, an extra AP in the meridian (4 instead of 3). If there is need to be flexibility for archive vote, just use that one?

Having a change of the plan at this time just seems like a sneaky way to make PLR7 less likely, especially as it 'default' to 4AP of meridians for unknown reason.
Yeah, and that's also a fair position to take, which is why I wouldn't just make the change.
 
We will have enough meridians for that regardless. The extra slots are just for more flexibility.

As noted, we only *need* 6 more rn, 8 (what the plan currently has) gets us to the (maybe) softcap, and 12 is a little ??, but those AP could also be spent on meridian scrunching or, as BN noted, potentially a new archive art.

I'm fine with the @Black Noise's idea, but really depends on others at this point?

Basically, the idea here would be that we could just make the plan:


[] Plan: The Moon Cannot Be Chained!
-[] equip Songseeker's Ceremony
-[] switch Inquisitive Study to Upkeep 2
-[] Medium Pills (free)
-[] Resources: 12 GSS, 12 YSS (4 free GSS, 8 from cash, 12 free YSS) , Drip on Spiritual Cultivation
-[] Physical Cultivation (4 AP)
-[] Spiritual Cultivation (4 AP)
-[] Phantasmagoria of Lunar Revelry (2 AP)
-[] Roaming Moon's Eye (1 AP)
-[] Harmony of the Dancing Wind (1 AP)
-[] Meridians (4 AP, tbd after archive results)
-[] Meridians/scrunching/PLR/new archive art (2 AP, tbd after archive results)
-[] Research Arts in Sect Archive, Third Floor (1 AP, 20 SP)
-[] Family (1 AP)

Which would basically eliminate the differences between all the PLR plans for the moment.

I think there should be limits to the entire tbd thing. Yrs was nice enough to allow it for the meridians so that we can do the meridians in the same month as the archive visit. And even the Meridians (tbd) already commit us to using these AP for meridians. Your example is an even broader use of the tbd thing and to my knowledge we didnt even ask for permission if we can use it that way.

In addition to the above, I dont see why we should do this in this specific instance. The different PLR plans are not even close to evenly matched at the moment, so i dont see why we would need a compromise solution as it is
 
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I think there should be limits to the entire tbd thing. Yrs was nice enough to allow it for the meridians so that we can do the meridians in the same month as the archive visit and even the Meridians (tbd) already commit us to using these AP for meridians. Your example is an even broader use of the tbd thing and to my knowledge we didnt even ask for permission if we can use it that way.

In addition to the above, I dont see why we should do this in this specific instance. The different PLR plans are not even close to evenly matched at the moment, so i dont see why we would need a compromise solution as it is
That too, yeah. It does kinda feel like pushing things (there's a reason I tongue in cheek called it "The moon cannot be chained!").
 
[X] Plan: In the Name of the Moon!
-[X] equip Songseeker's Ceremony
-[X] switch Inquisitive Study to Upkeep 2
-[X] Medium Pills (free)
-[X] Resources: 12 GSS, 12 YSS (4 free GSS, 8 from cash, 12 free YSS) , Drip on Spiritual Cultivation
-[X] Physical Cultivation (4 AP)
-[X] Spiritual Cultivation (4 AP)
-[X] Phantasmagoria of Lunar Revelry (4 AP)
-[X] Roaming Moon's Eye (1 AP)
-[X] Harmony of the Dancing Wind (1 AP)
-[X] Meridians (4 AP, tbd after archive results)
-[X] Research Arts in Sect Archive, Third Floor (1 AP, 20 SP)
-[X] Family (1 AP)

[x] Plan Dancing Moon
-[x] 4x Dexterity* (8/40), 2x Presence** (12/40), 3x Manipulation** (18/40), 2x Composure** (22/40), 4x Resolve* (30/40), 2x Wits* (34/40)
-[x] 2x Athletics** (36/40), 1x Survival (37/40), 3x War* (40/40)
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by naths on Jan 8, 2020 at 7:21 PM, finished with 152 posts and 69 votes.
 
Can anyone remember the corrected orogression requirements?

The ones in yrs mechanics post still list Domain C as a requirement for green 4 and green 5 as a requirement for domain C.
 
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