The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
None of these are proposals, which is what we're supposed to be putting forth if we put anything forth.
They are proposals.

The first is essentially ask the Crimsons what they want and then vote etc.

The second is proposing psyker hunter training for the entire trust.

And of course colonisation is proposing colonisation of Valinor and hearing arguments for and against.

Are you thinking the current level we're building, or the one after? Because if it's the one after, we're still a long ways away from building those.
No need for subsidies, even then there is currently no level after this, Grand is the max.

Well there may not be in a few centuries, but that really is a long way off.
 
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Right with confirmation
[X] Plan: Crimson Hunter Colonies?
-[X] Raise the issue of the Crimson Crusader chapter who has been living in our space for a while now. As another astartes chapter it would be a good idea to give them a home to start expanding as they can. Ask Captain Quintor for his thoughts on what would be best for his chapter.
-[X] Raise the spectre of the ritual and the resulting increase in number and power of psykers and recommend that all worlds receive psyker hunter training to try and get a head of the threat.
-[X] Opinions on beginning the colonisation of Valinor, with especial examination of the subsector's issues.
Any more?
Sounds good, but what about subsidies to support the construction and/or maintenance of Huge Forge Hives and Grand Cathedrals?

Forge Worlds are usually supported by the economies of entire sectors, rather than simply a single world, and the more we try to expand the Forge Hives, the more our economy will struggle to take the strain.

Edit: Read and saw that Scott doesn't think it's needed, so ignore me.
 
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Sounds good, but what about subsidies to support the construction and/or maintenance of Huge Forge Hives and Grand Cathedrals?

Forge Worlds are usually supported by the economies of entire sectors, rather than simply a single world, and the more we try to expand the Forge Hives, the more our economy will struggle to take the strain.
maybe set up a loan system to allow wanna-be forge worlds to pay the loaner back? once a forge world is set up it can produce its own costs several times over quite easily after all...and thats BEFORE all of our DAoT giving massive multiplyiers to everything.

We could even set it up to be a loan from the trust as a whole so theres more to loan to the start up while also minimizing the impact if it falls though.

kind of risky, as ANY large loan is by its very nature......but getting another forge world would be massive for the trust.

the thing tho is we are no where NEAR the limit of our current worlds production and I don't think the rest of the trust is either....we just had a doubling of eco from just the last 50 or so years. ....once we have had a no-increase turn THEN it is time to start expanding.

in the mean time it would be better to invest in the worlds we already have as it gets us almost-the-same benifits for less cost and less risk while also not stretching the trusts defensive power further....keep in mind that we are fundlementally limited by the soft-wall of our ship's speed preventing us from eaisly defending our worlds with singular fleets so the bigger we become the vulnable we become....we can't out-grow our ablity to defend our edge-worlds....we have to wait for our fleet/army strength to catch up. so we need to do what chaos can't do due to their inablity to work together....they HAVE to build wide, while we HAVE to build tall and use our concentrated power to minimize the benifit to chaos targeting us by maximizing how much military power they have to give up.

so I think we should simply focus on de-spying the dragon's nest and then up-teching them. once thats done we will have a much better power-base to continue expansion. (I support using eldar-favor to clean the dragon's nest)
 
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Wasn't there a proposal to use a favor to bring the remaining Lancre forces here so that we don't lose them and by extension the ability to learn new ways to increase warp travel which is one of our main disadvantages against chaos forces?
 
[x] Plan Invest in the future
-[X] Propose getting the Crimson Crusaders to make the trust their new home. These would help both the trust and crimson crusaders. Also we do have a subsector that needs to be colonized. Ask the Crimson Crusaders what they want to do.
-[X] propose the Trust colonize Valinor sub sector during these time of peace. We patrol and garrison the subsector but it is right now just a drain on resources. If we colonize them now we can get them up running faster than the previous colonies due to technology and experience colonizing worlds.
-[X] propose using 2 minor Eldar favors to cleanse Dragon's nest of spies and cultist. Dragon's nest has no problem with these and it would help with the merger and not h e to worry about tech theft as much.
[X] propose using a major eldar favor to learn warp engine technology. These would help with the trust and dragon's nest biggest problem Mobility. But we should do these after AFTER the Admech civil war.
-[X] tell the council about the possibility of causing a demonic incursion on Avernus to help the eldar as a distraction to help with the rescue of Isha. With trust support Rotbart is willing to help with a distraction if the eldar need it. But these will be suggested to the eldar and if the eldar god is rescued could lead to galactic change for the better.
-[x] Propose because of the chaos ritual that the trust adopt Avernus anti psyker techniques for the militaries and learn Avernus psyker hunting techniques. Also the creation of Academy for psyker hunting to insure a high level for all on every world.
-[X] propose when another minor favor becomes available we use it to get a Eldar seer council to help him with divinations.
-[X] Agree with Collage of War
-[X] propose sending 1 battlefleet to meet the Lancre half way and escort back to the trust.

@Durin how is these do I need to include better arguments?
@Durin how is these do I need to include better arguments?

ok as always I welcome suggestions if you have a good reason.
 
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At least two of them read as sound outs more than proposals.
I can rewrite if you prefer.

-[Q] Propose coming to a decision on what to do with the Crimson Crusaders within the Trust, especially what does Captain Quintor want.
-[Q] The ritual is coming and with it a likely explosion in psyker numbers. Propose that all worlds create psyker hunter organisations with the assistance of avernite experts.
-[Q] Propose the start of colonisation in Valinor over the next 50 year period.

Better? If we'd floated our proposals then I'd have not put my initial offerings so vaguely.
 
-[X] Propose giving the Crimson Crusaders Atlas gift and make Avernus a new home base for them for them. Avernus would appreciate having a space marine chapter in space and even more space marine. Also with the defenses of Avernus only the most crazed individuals would attack.
I'd really not want to put avernus forward as the immediate base for them. It looks really sketchy.

Just propose asking Quintor and then offering alternatives unless his option is best for everyone, he's the expert and commander here.
 
[x] Plan Invest in the future
-[X] Propose giving the Crimson Crusaders Atlas gift and make Avernus a new home base for them for them. Avernus would appreciate having a space marine chapter in space and even more space marine. Also with the defenses of Avernus only the most crazed individuals would attack.
-[X] propose the Trust colonize Valinor sub sector during these time of piece. We patrol and garrison the subsector but it is right now just a drain on resources. If we colonize them now we can get them up running faster than the previous colonies due to technology and experience colonizing worlds.
-[X] propose using 2 minor Eldar favors to cleanse Dragon's nest of spies and cultist. Dragon's nest has no problem with these and it would help with the merger and not h e to worry about tech theft as much.
[X] propose using a major eldar favor to learn warp engine technology. These would help with the trust and dragon's nest biggest problem Mobility. But we should do these after AFTER the Admech civil war.
-[X] tell the council about the possibility of causing a demonic incursion on Avernus to help the eldar as a distraction to help with the rescue of Isha. With trust support Rotbart is willing to help with a distraction if the eldar need it. But these will be suggested to the eldar and if the eldar god is rescued could lead to galactic change for the better.

@Durin how is these do I need to include better arguments?

ok as always I welcome suggestions if you have a good reason.
As mentioned we can just at the least just use one single favor for helping clean up Dragon's Nest and then have Rids spend some time helping out around the same time so that we have one favor available to use on the Lancre remains to get faster warp travel from them. We already gambled on not using the favor earlier and it ended up costing us big time with us losing a paragon level telepath and a lot of psyker knowledge that would have been helpful to not just the Trust but for the rest of humanity.

Besides that it's important to remember that we are getting a 50 year time skip giving Rids plenty of time to earn more favors.
 
[x] Plan Invest in the future
-[X] Propose giving the Crimson Crusaders Atlas gift and make Avernus a new home base for them for them. Avernus would appreciate having a space marine chapter in space and even more space marine. Also with the defenses of Avernus only the most crazed individuals would attack.
-[X] propose the Trust colonize Valinor sub sector during these time of piece. We patrol and garrison the subsector but it is right now just a drain on resources. If we colonize them now we can get them up running faster than the previous colonies due to technology and experience colonizing worlds.
-[X] propose using 2 minor Eldar favors to cleanse Dragon's nest of spies and cultist. Dragon's nest has no problem with these and it would help with the merger and not h e to worry about tech theft as much.
[X] propose using a major eldar favor to learn warp engine technology. These would help with the trust and dragon's nest biggest problem Mobility. But we should do these after AFTER the Admech civil war.
-[X] tell the council about the possibility of causing a demonic incursion on Avernus to help the eldar as a distraction to help with the rescue of Isha. With trust support Rotbart is willing to help with a distraction if the eldar need it. But these will be suggested to the eldar and if the eldar god is rescued could lead to galactic change for the better.

@Durin how is these do I need to include better arguments?

ok as always I welcome suggestions if you have a good reason.
I'm not sure I approve of the first item, why not do the same thing we did for the other chapter and give them a planet?

the second item....do we have wordOdurin of how much faster/how fast this colonization will be/take?

I agree that if we ever do the warp-engine tech it should be after the admech civil war.

I'm not sure we should EVER purposfully cause a demon incursion:
1): avernus/its people almost certainly will not approve, maybe not even after hearing our reasons either!
2); our OWN people will likely not approve either and I'm not sure we can risk telling them the reasons as it might make its way back to various persons of chaos....all they will hear is top brass wants a chaos invasion and i'm not sure I could blame them for wanting to stop us.
3): our allies will also be equally hesitant about this.
4): I'm not sure we can ever reasonably say we can manipulate chaos consistently enough to purposefully send them to our world and expect things to turn out well for us. yes we have a history of pushing them off consistently and I doubt this one would the exception.....but its still a chaos invasion.

instead, just simply propose that we should let the eldar know we would like to help, generically (so without specifying the manner). Once the time has come we can discuss the details and with said details and the plan being more concrete it will be much easier to convince people of such a crazy idea......and maybe we won't need to do that anyway for some reason.

I just really don't like the idea of even proposing the idea that will likely get people angry at us before even knowing if the eldar will be able to make use of it anyway. I do understand the intent however.
 
To Hunt the Phoenix
To Hunt the Phoenix

When you cast your vision upon the galaxy to find the Phoenix Avatar responsible for handing Khaine to Khorne, Arhra, you expect difficulties. Certainly, Ridcully had to contend with much. But it was not the sort of difficulty that the Blind Seer had not overcome before. But then, cornering him in his search to the Segmentum Solar, he found himself clouded at the last moment. Countless plots twisted and shifted, an echo of the power that only the Changer of Ways could command in demanding that Arhra would not be seen today.

What?

Yes, Tzeentch had chosen to protect Arhra from being found. Why? To waste time and effort? No, Tzeentch could do far more had it truly desired to 'waste time and effort'. Incursions, plots, attacks, more. The resources of a Great God of Chaos were immense. It was easy to second-guess that god, for it surely acted against itself far more than any other. All of this only reminded Ridcully of the other time he had succeeded in finding Arhra. When he/it attempted to ressuruct Khaine.

Utter disaster.

Countless fronts of the Eldar in the galaxy shorn of their heroes in moments. Setbacks for the forces of sanity, little different from the defeats the Plague God suffered when Ridcully summoned his attention from the very heart of his realm. Of course, the Eldar could retreat. Little comfort for those who died for lack of a Phoenix Lord. Yet still a worthwhile exchange to prevent even greater calamities that Arhra and Khorne would have wrought.

Now it could be repeated again. There was the Storm of Despair in Segmentum Solar. The Daemonstar Sol was of course there. The Void Dragon was there. Arhra was there. Tzeentch was interested and active. The number of possibilities one could imagine where this aided the Changer of Ways or weakened it's enemies were few, but Arhra had a remarkable talent for creating disaster and aiding Chaos for all that he was yet untainted.

So Ridcully relayed his findings to the Exarch tasked with guarding his body. Isenlath. From behind the face-concealing helm, he saw the Exarch pale, but perhaps not as much as one would expect, for she was an Exarch and of a race of people where Farseers gave looming portents of doom perhaps daily.

---

Terror. Terror and fear.

Perhaps too harsh for words to describe the Eldari response.

Terror. Terror and concern.

Regardless.

When it was foreseen* that word would arrive to the Eldar with the request of a Seer Council, one was put together and sent before it arrived. Competition was rife, many a Farseer desiring to work with the revered Munstrum Ridcully, the Blind Seer, the only living Eldar to have met Isha and received her blessing. The bringer of the Scroll of Isha. Who brought hope to the Eldar from the very furthest threads. Someone who the Eldar desired as a God but was as yet unwilling, one of few mortals who was not willing to sacrifice all for power. Like so many fallen to the Enemy they faced.

It said much of the Eldar Farseers that most if not all would be perfectly happy to mutilate their eyes in following the Blind Seer god (if Ridcully ever chose to Ascend, that is) upon a still-theoretical ritual (somewhat lacking a Blind Seer to properly work) for every edge they could grasp in their divination.

And so when the Exarch relayed the Imperial Trust's request to the Eldar, the Seer Council to assist Ridcully arrived in less than a month, a timing more akin to if the Trust had burned favor with the Eldar to summon a Warhost or assassins to strike against one of their many enemies in the region. They were starstruck to meet the man himself, the human hero of the Eldar with all the achievements he had done for them, someone invisible to the Divinations of the Junior Farseers that led the dozens of lesser seers which comprised the Eldar Seer Council.

Most of the Seers predicted they would have a happy and productive experience working with Ridcully, perhaps seeing sporadic, unwanted but inevitable interruptions from the deathworld Avernus. As they would eventually learn, attempting to predict interactions with a Diviner of his caliber with their own skills was the sheerest folly.

But that was a story for another time.

---

For Arhra and the plotting of his demise, more extreme measures had to be taken. A civilization of Seers, the Eldar were no strangers to Divination-Amplifiers, of which Ridcully's ghosthelm was but one of many. Runic Arrays. Artifacts once wielded by Farseers of great renown, forged between Lileath and Vaul when the Eldar Empire still stood strong. A meeting with a Pheonix Avatar in their rare free moments along with numerous anecdotes of the Falled Phoenix and the actual equipment Arhra's followers used, all to provide a link through which Ridcully could Scry Arhra ever so marginally better.

Arhra had to be found. Then killed.

The lesser Seers of the Seer Councils threw the runes, managing the way into the warp, taking upon the lesser burdens that they could, freeing up the efforts of the Farseers to draw upon Ridcully's skill and nature of the Blind Seer, casting their visions upon the countless paths in the past, present and future that Ridcully led them, scouring them for hints of Arhra. Against them was the fog Tzeentch wove around the True Avatar of Khaine, clouding the paths they searched, daring to lead them astray and waste precious time.

Again and again, Ridcully evaded the interference to find Arhra in the past with his Postcognition, wielding his sight to follow him into the present. He cut through the fog, the Runestaff of Ellas the Farseer and Eldar Runic Sorcery around him honing his vision to a point sharper than molecular blades. There, they met Arhra's intricate scheme against them, his followers occupying every branch of the future in an area truly wide with sorceries of their own to divert attention away from those who would seek him out.

Over the months, Eldar fleets descended upon each of them as Ridcully's vision reached ever-closer to Arhra. With Khaine's own skill as he had outmaneuvered Isha and Vaul so long ago Arhra directed his countermeasures against the divination the Eldar were so reliant upon then and now. But in the fundamental Arhra, with Tzeentch's aid, had to evade Ridcully's vision constantly. Ridcully need only find him once, and then Eldar might would finally be matched to Eldar sight, and it would all be over. And if at first you do not succeed, try again.

They cast their vision into the warp again, ever closer to Arhra with every attempt. Ever closer, to delivering death to Khaine.

*Truth be told some had been hoping foreseen it for very long indeed.

@Durin
 
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Also don't we need a favor to get a Seer council for Ridcully? Seems like that would be a must since that would help. Or would doing the favor with looking for Ahra have the Eldar be willing to give one to Ridcully in exchange for that?
 
As mentioned we can just at the least just use one single favor for helping clean up Dragon's Nest and then have Rids spend some time helping out around the same time so that we have one favor available to use on the Lancre remains to get faster warp travel from them. We already gambled on not using the favor earlier and it ended up costing us big time with us losing a paragon level telepath and a lot of psyker knowledge that would have been helpful to not just the Trust but for the rest of humanity.

Besides that it's important to remember that we are getting a 50 year time skip giving Rids plenty of time to earn more favors.
I have already told you it takes 2 minor favors. That comes from Durin because of the size of dragon's nest.
 
Right with confirmation
[X] Plan: Crimson Hunter Colonies?
-[X] Raise the issue of the Crimson Crusader chapter who has been living in our space for a while now. As another astartes chapter it would be a good idea to give them a home to start expanding as they can. Ask Captain Quintor for his thoughts on what would be best for his chapter.
-[X] Raise the spectre of the ritual and the resulting increase in number and power of psykers and recommend that all worlds receive psyker hunter training to try and get a head of the threat.
-[X] Opinions on beginning the colonisation of Valinor, with especial examination of the subsector's issues.
Any more?
Seer Council for Ridcully, Eldar Minors to clean DN of infiltrators. (Which is defi worth it)

Durin has mentioned that now's the time to talk about those things.
 
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I'm not sure I approve of the first item, why not do the same thing we did for the other chapter and give them a planet?

the second item....do we have wordOdurin of how much faster/how fast this colonization will be/take?

I agree that if we ever do the warp-engine tech it should be after the admech civil war.

I'm not sure we should EVER purposfully cause a demon incursion:
1): avernus/its people almost certainly will not approve, maybe not even after hearing our reasons either!
2); our OWN people will likely not approve either and I'm not sure we can risk telling them the reasons as it might make its way back to various persons of chaos....all they will hear is top brass wants a chaos invasion and i'm not sure I could blame them for wanting to stop us.
3): our allies will also be equally hesitant about this.
4): I'm not sure we can ever reasonably say we can manipulate chaos consistently enough to purposefully send them to our world and expect things to turn out well for us. yes we have a history of pushing them off consistently and I doubt this one would the exception.....but its still a chaos invasion.

instead, just simply propose that we should let the eldar know we would like to help, generically (so without specifying the manner). Once the time has come we can discuss the details and with said details and the plan being more concrete it will be much easier to convince people of such a crazy idea......and maybe we won't need to do that anyway for some reason.

I just really don't like the idea of even proposing the idea that will likely get people angry at us before even knowing if the eldar will be able to make use of it anyway. I do understand the intent however.
These questions have already been asked and essentially "fuck Chaos" was everyone's answer. I am just brining in got as a formality. We asked these questions in discord and everyone agreed even the high council.
 
I have already told you it takes 2 minor favors. That comes from Durin because of the size of dragon's nest.
But we don't really need to use minor favors to clean up the DN. It just more convinient and IIRC it was mentioned that Ridcully himself could do it with 5-10 actions and that was before taking other things into account like him having access to a seer council and him working with the Eldar if we spend a favor for them to help out.
 
These questions have already been asked and essentially "fuck Chaos" was everyone's answer. I am just brining in got as a formality. We asked these questions in discord and everyone agreed even the high council.
wait, really?

it was unoffically accepted? I'm not sure I believe that I'm understanding this cas I don't believe they would just agree to this....in particular the chaos invasion bit.....

let me see if I can find it in discord
 
These questions have already been asked and essentially "fuck Chaos" was everyone's answer. I am just brining in got as a formality. We asked these questions in discord and everyone agreed even the high council.
Did that take into account the people of Avernus and the PM? Because those are the ones we really don't want to piss off.
 
But we don't really need to use minor favors to clean up the DN. It just more convinient and IIRC it was mentioned that Ridcully himself could do it with 5-10 actions and that was before taking other things into account like him having access to a seer council and him working with the Eldar if we spend a favor for them to help out.
Ok the 2 options to clean dragon's nest is use 2 eldar favor or Ridicully for a unknow amount of time. Cleaning dragon's nest would take Ridicully decades to do it and the eldar 2 years. It makes no sense to use Ridicully since he has more important things to divine. And once we get the seer council he will be diving the things that we have had problems before in the past.
 
Ok the 2 options to clean dragon's nest is use 2 eldar favor or Ridicully for a unknow amount of time. Cleaning dragon's nest would take Ridicully decades to do it and the eldar 2 years. It makes no sense to use Ridicully since he has more important things to divine. And once we get the seer council he will be diving the things that we have had problems before in the past.
I definitely agree with this.

but I'm having troubles finding the discussion about the confirmation/agreeement about the chaos invasion bit. (although you did saay you were going to work on the wording. for now though I am very much not agreeing with this)
 
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