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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

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Alectai said:
The odds of us actualy successfully sweeping them is so remote I'm willing to dismiss it, I refuse to underestimate an organized military formation based on everything we've heard about how much they can get done.

Your plan is fine if you take "We can sweep them no problems" as an axiom. But from a perspective of delay, it risks half of them getting away because we were too busy fighting the other half.

or again, the nightmare scenario, they just fucking scatter and head for the border individually, and we get maybe a small portion of them.
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I think that if we can handle a fight with all of them, we can win a fight with half of them significantly faster. This seems fairly obvious to me. Them scattering is a joke--we just fly around picking them off, starting with the ones in the lead, or the greens. And even if it was that much of a danger, they could do it in your plan too. Finishing FVM to Traveler's End isn't a free action. Your plan would start out at a similar distance to mine.
 
Nightfire said:
I think that if we can handle a fight with all of them, we can win a fight with half of them significantly faster. This seems fairly obvious to me. Them scattering is a joke--we just fly around picking them off, starting with the ones in the lead, or the greens. And even if it was that much of a danger, they could do it in your plan too. Finishing FVM to Traveler's End isn't a free action. Your plan would start out at a similar distance to mine.
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I do agree that scattering is an unlikely move, which is why I dubbed it the nightmare scenario, but splitting in half is *very* viable, especially when two of the greens can stay behind to pin us down and the other can lead the rest of the guys with the loot.

That's why you don't concede the initiative unless you have something greater you can gain from it, because it lets the enemy come to you on their terms. Getting in their face means they have to go from a fast paced march to a defensive posture, which is not instantaneous because they first need to see the expanding cloud from their flank, then turn to face it, then get whatever their buff chain is started before we hit. Scattering or splitting in half risks them getting caught without active defenses at that point, while your plan straight up lets them have time to go "Okay, split into two fireteams and split off, if she goes for you, you'll get reinforced by our quantum assassin and the other team will book it to the border".
 
TehChron said:
I'll admit that I should be giving you the benefit of the doubt, but after spending hours hashing out plans on discord im really just not interested in an argument about how the logistics involved work. To be fair, you likely dont know how the MoI works, but you really shouldve paid attention when Alectai and I referenced that obliquely rather than ignored the term altogether.

And I'm too tired to look it up for you. My apologies.
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Is how MoI works discord-only knowledge? I've read a ton of both threads, but MoI is still fuzzy to me, and my look through informational threadmarks for something I missed didn't find anything.

Until this response, the oblique references to the MoI didn't make it seem like a (secret-knowledge) golden bullet that required addressing, so I grouped it into the idea that a beat-LQ-cultivator would prove it's the Sun.
 
larkins said:
Is how MoI works discord-only knowledge? I've read a ton of both threads, but MoI is still fuzzy to me, and my look through informational threadmarks for something I missed didn't find anything.

Until this response, the oblique references to the MoI didn't make it seem like a (secret-knowledge) golden bullet that required addressing, so I grouped it into the idea that a beat-LQ-cultivator would prove it's the Sun.
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It's mostly in statements made by yrsillar in a non-story context, because the Ministry of Integrity has been a non-entity in Ling Qi's story.

Long story short, their job is to make sure itinerant cultivators aren't a thing. They monitor high talent prodigies and get them into the system (Sects, adopted by a clan, otherwise get invested), and then make sure they're gainfully employed and not actually going to spool up to becoming a Problem.

A high ranking green--which is the minimum required to wreck our face--running around becomes egg on their face, because it implies they missed a spot or allowed themselves to be bribed to ignore it. Neither is acceptable, and they're going to very closely look for someone to blame it on that isn't them.

The logistics involved in getting to the upper reaches of Green--after all--are far beyond what any rando can achieve without patronage. Entering Green 1-2 with nothing but red and occasional yellow stones is plausible enough that you can see maybe a bandit group having one or two as chieftains. Green 5-6 is hard, and 8 likely harder still.
 
Nightfire said:
I think that if we can handle a fight with all of them, we can win a fight with half of them significantly faster. This seems fairly obvious to me.
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Why is this obvious? It takes twice as long to take out smaller groups because we do aoe attacks. The issue is number of aoe attacks we must make.

One giant group is x amt of time. Two smaller but roughly equal force composition groups is 2x amt of attacks + travel time.
 
Keep in mind these guys aren't all magically linked together in a hivemind. They need to communicate to work effectively.

Which I'm given to understand is kinda hard when a ball of Music, Dance, and Frost is crashing into you at high speeds.
 
larkins said:
Is how MoI works discord-only knowledge? I've read a ton of both threads, but MoI is still fuzzy to me, and my look through informational threadmarks for something I missed didn't find anything.

Until this response, the oblique references to the MoI didn't make it seem like a (secret-knowledge) golden bullet that required addressing, so I grouped it into the idea that a beat-LQ-cultivator would prove it's the Sun.
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Royal Road Bonus 8 said:
That one was talented, but so were all the commoners brought in, the ministry wouldn't have bothered otherwise. Heavens knew that was one policy he had supported whole heartedly. Left to fester in squalor those sorts inevitably became trouble, shaping themselves into engines of ever greater destruction and chaos the longer they survived. Much better to nip it in the bud and bring them into the system early, before one needed an entire squad of Ministry Agents to bring the boot down on some power mad would be neo-sage emperor. With the conscription program they could get suppressed, snapped up by a clan, or made new nobility.
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Alectai said:
I do agree that scattering is an unlikely move, which is why I dubbed it the nightmare scenario, but splitting in half is *very* viable, especially when two of the greens can stay behind to pin us down and the other can lead the rest of the guys with the loot.

That's why you don't concede the initiative unless you have something greater you can gain from it, because it lets the enemy come to you on their terms. Getting in their face means they have to go from a fast paced march to a defensive posture, which is not instantaneous because they first need to see the expanding cloud from their flank, then turn to face it, then get whatever their buff chain is started before we hit. Scattering or splitting in half risks them getting caught without active defenses at that point, while your plan straight up lets them have time to go "Okay, split into two fireteams and split off, if she goes for you, you'll get reinforced by our quantum assassin and the other team will book it to the border".
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Giving the enemy time to prepare may be a bad idea. It was my own concern with my plan.

I think assuming the force with known military discipline will be shocked and unable to respond quickly is... questionable. At best.

The point about retreating in my plan is that we can probably wait out their buffs. FVM lasts for ages.

If the loot is visible, going after that first is an obvious tactic for Ling Qi. If it's not visible, it might as well be on the unseen cultivator and already gone. Planning for "what if Ling Qi is stupid" and "what if they've already won" are not very helpful, I feel.

Katreus said:
Why is this obvious? It takes twice as long to take out smaller groups because we do aoe attacks. The issue is number of aoe attacks we must make.

One giant group is x amt of time. Two smaller but roughly equal force composition groups is 2x amt of attacks + travel time.
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I didn't say that we could deal with both halves faster than them all at once, I said we could deal with one half faster than all at once. Not all our attacks do equal damage to everyone. We are likely to use HR against greens. If there aren't any greens in the half, the reds and yellows definitely die faster than all at once--we just use Traveler's End and wind back up as we go after the greens. Once we've engaged the second half, thanks to FVM they probably aren't getting away, and time is less important.

Edit: Bowing out of this conversation now, seeing as I'm arguing over specific responses to a plan exactly no one has voted for. There's no point.
 
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George said:
I mean, yeah, when you plan in secret people won't take the info that went into your planning into account
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I didn't plan in secret, I explicitly posted my plan to give an option that wasnt planned in secret.

And the shit about the Ministry of Integrity is common knowledge. So I'd prefer it if you didn't try to cast shade on me when I point out that I was making an effort to ensure there was actual freedom of choice rather than some monolithic bloc that the rest of the thread couldn't contest.

I'm really not interested in picking fights with people too lazy to take the initiative to put their money with their mouth is.
 
Floom said:
Keep in mind these guys aren't all magically linked together in a hivemind. They need to communicate to work effectively.

Which I'm given to understand is kinda hard when a ball of Music, Dance, and Frost is crashing into you at high speeds.
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We aren't going to be using Frost on this huge crowd. It made sense in the cave, but this is a much larger area.
 
[X] Plan: The Night Parade of One Thousand Demons - Final Mix

OK, I guess this is as close to 'keep it simple' as it can get. Let's hope it works. My main issue with this is not having OwS up, given it is persistent nowadays:
One with Shadow: C rank
Duration: Persistent
The user merges with the shadows and dark, dematerializing entirely. In this form they may slip from shadow to shadow, without crossing the space between so long as the destination shadow is at least moderately sized. In this form the users presence is muted, even to spiritual senses. If the user slips successfully into the shadow of an opponent, their connection grants their first attack against that enemy a great potency. However, an attack on the shadow the user inhabits can harm the user, and damage will break this technique.
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That would help our approach quite a bit I think.
 
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Eh, I think there's something to be said for Echoes of Absolute Winter here, particularly if the Greens manage to land blows on us.
 
fictionfan said:
We aren't going to be using Frost on this huge crowd. It made sense in the cave, but this is a much larger area.
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The FSS frost effects are persistent iirc, so we can actually use it on portions of the crowd as Ling Qi moves around.
yrsillar said:
Springs End Aria: D
Duration: Long
The first notes of the users song herald the end of warmth, draining the heat from the area and around them and crystalizing the moisture in the air into snow and ice. Enemies Close to the user find their qi growing sluggish, sapping their spiritual defenses and bolstering the singers own. Qi expended in failed assault of the singer drains away, flowing into the singularity of cold created by the singers voice. Those whose dantians have been fully drained find their flesh frosting over and their blood running cold as they are lulled into the final sleep.
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While it won't be in the same kind of range as FVM, it's still going to be a long duration and worth doing just for the sake of abusing

yrsillar said:
Echoes of Absolute Winter: B
Duration: Special
Damage: F
A technique used in tandem with Aria of Springs End, if activated at the same time, the Aria carries an echo of true winter, stilling the very air around the singer with its freezing chill until blood grows sluggish and flesh cracks. Attacks targeting the user, or which have an area of effect overlapping with Aria's have their penetration reduced by one rank as the cold devours the energy of the technique or attack. Similarly, Cold or Dark techniques used by the singer against those in range of Aria have their Hit or Penetration enhanced by one rank, as chosen by the user.
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When considering

yrsillar said:
Potency: Green 2
Keywords:
  • Darkness, Loss, Perseverance, Water, Yin
  • Composure, Manipulation, Music
Meridians: Heartx3, Lung x2
Max Level: 8

There are many forgotten places in the world where human kind does not tread easily. This technique is a part of the chronicle of a long dead wanderer, composed into music and offered to the smiling moon. It speaks of mist covered valleys hidden deep in the mountains and the mischievous and hungry spirits that wait in the dark, and the loneliness of the wanderer's path.
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And Hoarfrost Refrain, using SEA is too good to not abuse, really, for the Qi drain if nothing else.
 
Arkeus said:
[X] Plan: The Night Parade of One Thousand Demons - Final Mix

OK, I guess this is as close to 'keep it simple' as it can get. Let's hope it works. My main issue with this is not having OwS up, given it is persistent nowadays:

That would help our approach quite a bit I think.
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I think that's covered in the line where Alectai talks about persistent effects. It could be made clearer though.
 
Could someone remind me or link me to a post which explains how cultivator warfare works with masses of Reds and Yellows and formation synergy stacking (or whatever method they use to equalize up to higher tiers)?
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on May 24, 2019 at 10:54 PM, finished with 231 posts and 26 votes.
  • [X] Plan: The Night Parade of One Thousand Demons - Final Mix
    -[X] Approach to within sight of the targets from one of their flanks and raise up defenses (especially SES and TRF, but getting persistents up and running in advance) and then activate Forgotten Vale Melody at maximum radius while making final approach, scale up to Traveller's End--timed to complete this as we make contact. Use Elegy to isolate the illusionist, and maintain defenses and PLR control effects while sneaking Hannyi and Zhengui as a team into the mists to launch ambushes to chip away at the lower realm 'Bandits'. Stall them and contain them by abusing our mobility and stealth, but ensure that defenses are in place to endure a potential sneak attack from the third target. Respond to any surprises (Such as a backstab by third target on any allies) by detonating Traveller's End--boosted through Joyous Toast and Sixiang's support, and if anything remains intact, use all means necessary to contain any survivors until Renxiang and reinforcements arrive.
    [X] Plan If It Bleeds...
    -[X] Lean on all your skills to turn into a shadow and track the source of the false trails, the assassin who undou btedly serves as the trump card of that raiding force using your superior speed. Once you've located his inevitable location around his fellows, use all your skills in perception, tracking, and stealth to locate him remembering the techniques favored by Lu Feng (For obviously this is what Sun Liling was taunting you with) and ambush the assassin with your Spirits. Once you've engaged the assassin, begin preparing your full suite of arts for mass combat, then once you've confirmed the kill, take them with you to attack the main force by dropping Zhengui and Hanyi on them from above, while using PLR and Elegy of the Lost to isolate the relevant combatants, specifically the illusionist, and crush them with FVMs ultimate technique before holding out as best you can until reinforcements arrive.
    [X] Alpha Strike 2.0
    -[X]while still out of range, set up the Full FVM art to maximum range (Very Far) and use JT to boost Travellers End to Rank A/Damage A. In addition use TRF and SCS to prepare our defense. Then use our superior speed to catch up to the enemy group and trigger the Travellers End AoE once the entire group is caught. Then release and team up with our Spirits and use PLR to fight and capture the Green opponents. If Sixiang doesnt need to dispel, have them boost PLRs Resist. If the plan fails, fight defensive to delay until reinforcement arrives.
    [X] Plan: Wait Them Out
    -[x] Set up mists between the enemy and the border and hide within them. Retreat if pressed by a prepared offense. Push back when enemy enhancement techniques weaken, or if the enemy makes significant progress to the border. If the enemy splits up, defeat in detail. If a battle is inevitable, hold nothing back.
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Shard said:
Could someone remind me or link me to a post which explains how cultivator warfare works with masses of Reds and Yellows and formation synergy stacking (or whatever method they use to equalize up to higher tiers)?
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We don't really know because Ling Qi is garbage at War and has had limited opportunity to learn?
 
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