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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
That is a Colossal escalation, because Peak Greens don't happen in isolation, and the odds of Shenhua brand gear not keeping recordings of the goings on around them are slim to none.
A Peak Green doesn't happen in the wild, because that makes the Imperial Throne look bad for not stopping it from happening in the first place, which pisses them off, and Shenhua would play that to the hilt, especially if she can then present a recording of the killer being a Sun follower.
Like, they executed Bai Meilin for allegedly assassinating a half-assed prince. A ducal heiress would demand a similar level of escalation, and would probably come in the form of Shenhua personally tearing Liling's heart out and sewing it into a nice banner that she sends to her father.
And basically nobody would be able to censure her for it. Sun Shao is in favor, but not in favor enough to get away with one of his vassals going 'Rogue' and assassinating a ducal heir on their own soil.
So, one thing to consider since our job is to slow them down - injuries may serve more to do that than deaths. We might want to grievously injure many of the lower end people rather than killing them, so that their comrades have to keep carrying them as they move. Either that or abandon them. Both are bad for enemy morale.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
My impression is that it's a SCS "successor". E.G, it was created (though modified for modern times) long before SCS was made, and SCS normal successors are quite different. So it goes the route of intangibility/Stealth/Movement, and will discard the offensive/dodge aspects.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
None of the arts listed actually kill. They drain and paralysis.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Mm, that's part of why Ling Qi's job isn't really to nuke them down unless we can be assured that the entire force is in range. But given the sensitivity of the shit they just pulled, the odds of them not abandoning everyone injured to die is slim to none, so we can't count on them actually slowing down to help their wounded. They poked a Ducal House square in the eye on their own soil, you don't do that unless you're willing to do what it takes to bug out
And Sun Shao should be intelligent to be aware of this, for so long as Liling is in the Argent Sect, she is ostensibly under Imperial Protection.
But the second that he would waive such protection by nakedly escalating, she becomes Shenhua's hostage. Which is a rather roundabout way of saying she's gonna die. Which will provoke Shao's Way super hard, which will force him to either have Celestial Peaks try and take it on the chin for him, thus weakening his position further, or try and lead a punitive force against Shenhua directly.
And I'm sure the Bai will totally be unhappy to see their former vassals cross the river between Thousand Lakes and the Red Jungle in force.
Yes sir, they'd be really unhappy to see them walk straight into the teeth of whatever defenses they've set up since then for sure.
The Sun just can't afford that level of escalation. A tit for tat move to make Renxiang lose face after what happened last year in the Outer Sect for sure. But an insult of that level to Cai itself? Shenhua would gleefully enter into a game of chicken with Sun Shao, since he'd be the one giving her the excuse.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
[X] Plan: The Night Parade of One Thousand Demons - Final Mix
-[X] Approach to within sight of the targets from one of their flanks and raise up defenses (especially SES and TRF, but getting persistents up and running in advance) and then activate Forgotten Vale Melody at maximum radius while making final approach, scale up to Traveller's End--timed to complete this as we make contact. Use Elegy to isolate the illusionist, and maintain defenses and PLR control effects while sneaking Hannyi and Zhengui as a team into the mists to launch ambushes to chip away at the lower realm 'Bandits'. Stall them and contain them by abusing our mobility and stealth, but ensure that defenses are in place to endure a potential sneak attack from the third target. Respond to any surprises (Such as a backstab by third target on any allies) by detonating Traveller's End--boosted through Joyous Toast and Sixiang's support, and if anything remains intact, use all means necessary to contain any survivors until Renxiang and reinforcements arrive.
-[X] Approach to within sight of the targets from one of their flanks and raise up defenses (especially SES and TRF, but getting persistents up and running in advance) and then activate Forgotten Vale Melody at maximum radius while making final approach, scale up to Traveller's End--timed to complete this as we make contact. Use Elegy to isolate the illusionist, and maintain defenses and PLR control effects while sneaking Hannyi and Zhengui as a team into the mists to launch ambushes to chip away at the lower realm 'Bandits'. Stall them and contain them by abusing our mobility and stealth, but ensure that defenses are in place to endure a potential sneak attack from the third target. Respond to any surprises (Such as a backstab by third target on any allies) by detonating Traveller's End--boosted through Joyous Toast and Sixiang's support, and if anything remains intact, use all means necessary to contain any survivors until Renxiang and reinforcements arrive.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
............the fact that we get its capstone tech/upgrade, more Domain expand can slot it into our Domain?
Looooool no
We'been led to believe they're bandits. Bandits suspiciously good at stealing a heavily guarded shipment of goods from the Bai bound for the Cai and also suspiciously well informed of the best time to strike and sack the town.
If you think this is just some simple bandits and at all unrelated to Liling's warning to us think again.
- Location
- the internet
What part aren't you satisfied with? I'm not asking because I'm a proponent of the plan necessarily, I'm just curious.
[X] Alpha Strike 2.0
-[X]while still out of range, set up the Full FVM art to maximum range (Very Far) and use JT to boost Travellers End to Rank A/Damage A. In addition use TRF and SCS to prepare our defense. Then use our superior speed to catch up to the enemy group and trigger the Travellers End AoE once the entire group is caught. Then release and team up with our Spirits and use PLR to fight and capture the Green opponents. If Sixiang doesnt need to dispel, have them boost PLRs Resist. If the plan fails, fight defensive to delay until reinforcement arrives.
-[X]while still out of range, set up the Full FVM art to maximum range (Very Far) and use JT to boost Travellers End to Rank A/Damage A. In addition use TRF and SCS to prepare our defense. Then use our superior speed to catch up to the enemy group and trigger the Travellers End AoE once the entire group is caught. Then release and team up with our Spirits and use PLR to fight and capture the Green opponents. If Sixiang doesnt need to dispel, have them boost PLRs Resist. If the plan fails, fight defensive to delay until reinforcement arrives.
From a meta-perspective, this set up seems too good to be true. Seventy Qi batteries is a lure dangled in front of us. I'm sure there will be a hitch to prevent us from exploiting the hell out of the situation. So I'm not voting for plans that hinge on limitless Qi.
- Location
- California
The part about separating ourselves from our spirits. It might be fine and even ideal, I just need to review the mechanics and think about it some more. At first glance, it seems to be connected to some obvious losing scenarios.
EDIT: I think I'm convinced Night Parade is our best bet.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
[x]Aranfan
Yeah, the hitch there is gonna be that Third Realm Assassin and whatever cards he has up his sleeve. It's why Plan If It Bleeds... is set up to hunt him down first, eliminate whatever cards he had up his sleeve, and then descend on said Qi batteries with reckless and gleeful abandon
EternalObserver
eYe Gaze baCk
- Location
- The Void
it ended two hours ago (which admittedly got me confused as to why people aren't voting yet)
In addition to what others have said -
Bolding mine.
Put simply, we need to master SCS first.
Sure, it takes AP (a grand total of one); sure, scrunching takes more AP (another 3, for a total of four).
But without that AP the foundation for LFotWT is incomplete, because LFotWT doesn't replace SCS in the sense that we unequip SCS to equip LFotWT, leaving SCS to languish in our list of unequipped Arts.
Instead, it replaces SCS by subsuming SCS, removing SCS from our list of Arts entirely and replacing it with LFotWT, much like Zephyr's Breath was subsumed by Fleeting Zephyr.
LFotWT will then build upon the lessons of SCS, adding in new twists and techniques - that Intangibility Keyword should be awesome.
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Mmmm, the problem with Nath's plan is that nuking them all first runs the risk of just prompting the third realms to drop everything and run, and we might not be able to stop them fast enough.... though since it calls for us to already have PLR out LW might be fine. Also, it strikes me that stopping one big attack like that may be just the kind of thing that good defensive formations might be designed for?
Alectai's plan has the risks around us fighting 70 people at once and potentially being blindsided by an assassin.
TehChron's plan has the problem of us wasting too much time trying to track down an assassin (my feeling there is that this should be a conditional attack of opportunity, if we can find him quickly while we're running them down, then jump him, if we can't then we shouldn't waste the time)
Alectai's plan has the risks around us fighting 70 people at once and potentially being blindsided by an assassin.
TehChron's plan has the problem of us wasting too much time trying to track down an assassin (my feeling there is that this should be a conditional attack of opportunity, if we can find him quickly while we're running them down, then jump him, if we can't then we shouldn't waste the time)
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
Also it has the problem of us needing to have better stealth than the assassin and everyone else has perception, and if we don't we get an alpha strike of everyone in our face when we have no defence up.
- Location
- United States
Ah, this is exactly the answer I was looking for. That and the one that said that mastering SCS will make it easier to start FotWT.
I don't disagree, I just think there are degrees of disposable.
All we know for sure is that Sun Shao won't be crippled by losing these forces, but we don't have enough knowledge of the world and his resources and his mindset to know what level of loss he's willing to stomach here. We can guess that there's a risk reward calculation here, but without explicitly knowing the rewards (i.e., all the objectives, not just those thus far revealed) we can't meaningfully attempt to guess what he risked.
We definitely don't know enough to assume the unknown green is a pushover, and they don't have to be peak green to present a serious (or even overwhelming) threat to solo Ling Qi.
Generally it's breaking through that's hard, not getting to peak, and certainly not getting high enough to be extremely dangerous to Ling Qi who, while talented, has been cultivating all of 18ish months. You seem to think peak greens are so rare that there's some sort of perfect list of them with an explicit chain of who is responsible for the actions of any given one, but I've not seen this in the world building we've seen thus far. They don't have to happen "in the wild", they only have to be sufficiently deniable that Shenhua can't openly retaliate.
Who said anything about naked escalation? These are "bandits". We don't entirely know, but it seems unlikely that the imperial throne would allow Shenhua free reign just because of some "unrelated bandits" no matter how horrible their actions. Even if killing Renxiang isn't viable, killing her retainer is a nice juicy way to humiliate and weaken her.
But this is all very secondary to my actual point: we cannot assume the third cultivator is a pushover.
- Location
- PA
Hrrm.
Flip the script: Hit that third Cultivator...Or Business as Usual?
Here's my big problem: it's a guessing game.
If it's someone aiming for Cai, and they know of Ling, then yeah, this does reek of a trap.
On the flipside, Flip the Script assumes we can in fact defeat the third cultivator in a blind duel. That Swordsman we nearly killed suggests that it's easier said then done to duel us sure...But we'd also be trying to beat a Scout-killer at his own game, which would take some doing...
On the flopside though, if he's built to sucker-punch he might not have the perception to see us coming if we aim for him...And if he's NOT equipped to stall for reinforcements then that goes poorly...
Actually, yeah, I think I like Flipping, but I feel like Business as Usual might be safer because for all Sun's 'hinting'...That doesn't gel, in my opinion.
Why would Sun basically go 'HEY! LISTEN!' if her Clan's up to shenanigans, and politically speaking we're mutual antagonists, let alone the actual personal beatdowns we've given each other?
That's why I want to go Business as Usual. Because assuming this is a set-up to me sounds like we have no reason not to believe the third card isn't basically something we can only win against by not engaging entirely, and that we're supposed to focus on the problem at hand, instead of trying to gear for the next round.
...Additionally? How are we against Enemy Illusionists? It feels like you guys have been assuming he won't be a pain, but until Cai shows up I dunno if we have the dispels. More prominently, if we try a tricky 'deploy our spirits here and there' strategy to try and chew the army up we could end up watching them get grabbed by that illusionist's trickery.
Melee specialist and Illusions. Doesn't that rather sound like CRX and Ling Qi, in a sense? Doesn't it then follow that some sort of confusion in the ranks play that turns our Spirits against us would be highly effective if the plan is to create something of a 'mirror fight' scenario?
Flip the script: Hit that third Cultivator...Or Business as Usual?
Here's my big problem: it's a guessing game.
If it's someone aiming for Cai, and they know of Ling, then yeah, this does reek of a trap.
On the flipside, Flip the Script assumes we can in fact defeat the third cultivator in a blind duel. That Swordsman we nearly killed suggests that it's easier said then done to duel us sure...But we'd also be trying to beat a Scout-killer at his own game, which would take some doing...
On the flopside though, if he's built to sucker-punch he might not have the perception to see us coming if we aim for him...And if he's NOT equipped to stall for reinforcements then that goes poorly...
Actually, yeah, I think I like Flipping, but I feel like Business as Usual might be safer because for all Sun's 'hinting'...That doesn't gel, in my opinion.
Why would Sun basically go 'HEY! LISTEN!' if her Clan's up to shenanigans, and politically speaking we're mutual antagonists, let alone the actual personal beatdowns we've given each other?
That's why I want to go Business as Usual. Because assuming this is a set-up to me sounds like we have no reason not to believe the third card isn't basically something we can only win against by not engaging entirely, and that we're supposed to focus on the problem at hand, instead of trying to gear for the next round.
...Additionally? How are we against Enemy Illusionists? It feels like you guys have been assuming he won't be a pain, but until Cai shows up I dunno if we have the dispels. More prominently, if we try a tricky 'deploy our spirits here and there' strategy to try and chew the army up we could end up watching them get grabbed by that illusionist's trickery.
Melee specialist and Illusions. Doesn't that rather sound like CRX and Ling Qi, in a sense? Doesn't it then follow that some sort of confusion in the ranks play that turns our Spirits against us would be highly effective if the plan is to create something of a 'mirror fight' scenario?
To be honest, biggest problem with Wind Thief being a SCS replacement atm is that it is missing some pretty core things. Like no Yin keyword or heck neither any yang/balance nor any dodge/grace. So when we switch to that we kinda need to find a new dodge art unless we want to make a big hole appear in our defence.
Even if Intangibility is some kind of advance dodge we might not be able to use our Sable grace skill with it throwing dodge down to C again.
Even if Intangibility is some kind of advance dodge we might not be able to use our Sable grace skill with it throwing dodge down to C again.