Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
It is true that each Biologis Death has gotten us a better one.
Spreading the Word is Double-Down'ed. Fixed the missing action for the free admech slot. Edited to make it more clear.
-
Going forward, links to content from Twitter (now X) will no longer be embedded. Pre-existing links should not be affected.
The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
ArchAIngel
Sorcerer Supreme.
- Location
- Right behind you.
[X] Plan Shard T127
Time to put my cards on the table and make my bet.
Let's see how it plays out.
Time to put my cards on the table and make my bet.
Let's see how it plays out.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
If I may convince you, my plan now does the Impalers now, and also has us asking Areatha to help with the Vault.
If I may ask, what in particular? The plans are nigh-similar at this point, except for the TW Biologis.
Actually you are doing the Fundamentals of melta and Enjou is finally doing the programming for the gravity array.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
the odds start going down fast once you stop dealing with newbie space marines
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
mmm Still good though.
+ Heroic Thunder Warriors are very OP as you say frequently.
@Durin
1. Were the Warriors massacred by Emps in your verse?
2. Does anyone have a good reason for why he felt he needed to randomly kill his most loyal and experienced fighters.
- Location
- Berkeley
Gravitic array programming I view as being an excellent Explorator option—like the Munitorum TW action I see it as expensive for what it does now but being able to quickly figure out how to use it in other systems is quite important. While we don't know for sure that the Nids remain slow in real space, I view that as being likely (as the Necrons are so very fast that they can dictate engagement range and the like near perfectly no matter how many incremental improvements the Nids make, which makes speed improvements a low return area of investment for the Nids) and reducing an already low in-system speed further is huge for boosting the attritional damage we can do to them in harassment.
For the Telepathica action, I'd rather skip the shrine faerie option and having two tutors for the Alpha increases the odds that they pass decently. Given that we have three combat-useful Alpha psykers currently, adding another would be nice.
edit: Also, for all that I've been vocal against the TW Biologis option, that's more because it grates against my optimization oriented pseudo-OCD than because the downside of doing it now versus later is all that significant.
Last edited:
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I would like to note that Pass rates are capped at 65% There's essentially no difference to whether we gave +200 or +20 to them passing if the Alpha rolls, say, 34, as has happened several times in the past. As for the Gravitic Array, wasn't the issue the fact that we could only do it for one system, ex, Avernus, so essentially it wouldn't help the rest of the Trust with the Tyranids?
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. You don't know
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Theoretically if we know where they are going we can make new programmes to work for the system's gravity.
So we can use it, but it does rely on us having enough years to for Tranth to write em up.
- Location
- Australia
It can be done for other systems but each one needs its own command battleship with gravitic array dedicated to it. It would take a very long time to build the ships, enough that only a few worlds would receive coverage before the tyranids hit. It's a long term project, not a short term one.
- Location
- Berkeley
For the Gravitic Array, that action only lets us deploy it in our system. However, the action isn't just taking a survey of the system--it also requires a lot of experimentation in figuring out how to program/use it. I imagine that it will be a significantly faster option for other systems once this is done, requiring little more than an in-depth survey and some computational time. If we knock it down to a three-year action with a reasonably high success chance, we can do it in a system in response to a normal divination warning that it's likely to be attacked.
As for Alpha success chance, base pass rate is 10%. With two high-control psykers doing tutoring it should boost it to the maximum pass rate of 65%, but an average roll on one of our hero psykers will not cap it--let alone a below average roll. Also, while the return on boosting their trials roll diminishes massively after the pass rate cap, a 'better' pass does result in a higher rank psyker, increasing the odds of getting elite primaris or better psykers.
Well, we can move the one we've got to another system, we would just need to make programs just for that system. (or do the sensible thing and just put a damn Man of Stone in it already!
)
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
An average roll by Rids already caps the pass rate, let alone before rerolls. I think 1 Hero action on an Alpha per turn is sensible, but 2 kind of hits diminishing returns?
I am considering the Gravitic Array though. I juat think that this particular war we really want to prevent the Nids from even making contact with our planets and handle them in Amir Ka
- Location
- Berkeley
Average roll = 51, base success chance is 50%, Rid's bonus is +49 (from 59 control). Gives +50 for the Alpha's success chance, and it caps at +55.
This still means that over half the time without rerolls Ridcully doesn't cap their success chance.
Also, just because it hits diminishing returns doesn't make it a total waste. It's a low investment and we do get a fair bit out of having the psyker beat the pass by a lot rather than a little. If they only pass by enough to become a Sanctionite or a Battle Psyker (which we know to be possible, as it was mentioned the without tutoring Ophelia would have been good enough to be a Battle Psyker) then there's effectively out of consideration for becoming a heroic psyker, or at least several steps back. That's on top of the loss in impact their normal service would give.
The thing is we still do not have enough ships and logistics to fight as Far as Amirka. I am hoping that warning the chaos polities gets enough of them together to slow down since in cannon it took hundreds of chapters or a crusade to stop. Even than splinters still plagued the galaxy for thousands of years.
You are Cordially Invited
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
You are Cordially Invited
The Great Overlord of the Atum Dynasty, He Who Smote the Raptor of the Stars, whose Wrath Scorched the Heaven and Earth, Breaker of Wills, Forger of Bonds, Councillor of Clear Voice, The Unbending Will and many many many more.
These were titles that Intekhet had earned over his millions of years of existence, but if there was one that he held to above all others it would be the one granted to him by his King.
The Loyal.
In ancient past when the Necrontyr had arisen in the young galaxy the Atum had been among the mightiest of their people, battling for control of the Triarch itself. But those days had passed, their strength lesser than it had been at their height, exchanged for honour and glory.
Although from a now minor dynasty he was fostered by the Tetrarch, and became friends with a young boy he would know as Sz. But, the universe would know as Szarekh.
When the Deceiver tricked their people he stood by his friend as a beacon of support, when he called for a volunteer to march into the bio furnace and be reborn he was the first to step forward. When they charged into the heavens to wreak vengeance upon the hated Old Ones he was there, his war scythe leading the way in the darkest battles and in the proudest of victories.
He had slain Krork High Marshalls, Eldar Phoenix Mages and Jokareo Battlesmiths, he had toppled entire worlds with his own might and watched as the C'tan devoured the iridescent souls of the Old Ones in their ever hungering maws. He had helped conceal the weapons that would secure their freedom from the treacherous parasites and when the time came it was he who plunged the Spike into the chest of Zul'channec, shattering it into ten thousand shards never to be whole again.
It would have been appropriate for such a loyal subject of the Silent King to obey his order to the letter and sleep until it had been decided he should awaken, but to him, his most loyal Overlord, Szarekh entrusted a special duty.
He was to remain awake, and watch. Observe the Crucible of the Old Ones. Ensure that it was not kept unobserved, that its experiments did not endanger the galaxy. To not interfere. To wait. He was only to act if a chance came to destroy the Crucible, or to gain some key piece of information a chance which had come only a bare handful of times.
So he waited, time passing him and his dynasty by, sleeping in rotation, watching both their charge and the galaxy move on around them. Millions of species born and raised, the Aeldari rise so high and fall into decadence without their makers, their worthy foe in the Krork reduced to a petty rabble, civilisation upon civilisation landing upon the Crucible before eventually leaving, each forgotten save for a record within their archives and the Crucible's ever growing catalogue of creatures.
His time and his court's was spent studying, when they were not observing trying to keep their minds free from the twin specters of boredom and madness. Creating new wonders and new weapons both, idling by the millions of years mastering arts, prodding the path of lesser races towards more enjoyable conclusions, watching with some amusement at the antics of the young genius as he stalked the galaxy searching for trinkets and marvelling at the folly of the younger races, sometimes with disgust and other times with awe.
This he believed to be his fate until the end of days until his Lord and Master once again came to him, first before all other Pharaohs. Their forces were to marshall, for great plans were at stake and forces gathered against them. He had seen the Grand Devourer, the biological hoard racing across the galaxy and at his Master's command he was more than happy to throw himself and his dynasty into the fray.
In his cold circuits he could feel the heat burning within him, the pulse of battle, one as grand as the war in Heaven that they had prosecuted so long ago. A break to the monotony of his eternal vigilance one that he welcomed with relish.
Now he was returned to the galaxy, their foe almost vanquished to find it more changed in a shorter span than he had realised possible. Their old foes returned and rejuvenated, the malignant tumor of the Sea of Souls had expanded and grown in its blight, the Outsider returned to haunt them once again while the children of the Krork had become more than a mere annoyance. At least he did not have to constantly fend off boredom simply looking at the reports. Even his charge was filled with more activity than he had seen in a long time. It was preparing itself that much was obvious, but for which threat? Then again did it need to choose? It had created such a vast arsenal for itself that it could effectively counter any force in the galaxy at this stage.
It was within this pondering that his Nemsor Sehetep and Court Astronomer Hedjereh came upon him, baring a most peculiar message.
Transmitted from a human ship that had appeared and then vanished back into the Sea as quickly as it had emerged it read thusly.
To Overlord Intekhet of the Atum Dynasty, you are cordially invited to a neutral meeting in the Tarvonis system. There it is hoped to discuss the circumstances and options to deal with the assemblage of threats currently facing both our proud peoples.
To assure you of the veracity of this message, I would direct your sight upwards, where you shall see that your great purge has not been as absolute a success as you had hoped.
Yours sincerely
The High Council of the Imperial Trust
Thought for the day
+The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy, but two enemies can still fight the enemy of all as one+
A query was transmitted to his most trusted advisors, Hedjereh confirming that he had turned his instruments to the galaxy above and confirmed the presence of a Devourer swarm, one of the six that had successfully broken through their blockade. A mistake that the responsible Pharaoh would not forget anytime soon.
His Nemsor stepped forward then and informed him that the orks of the Bludbusta domain were starting to unite as well, in all probability the other threat alluded to in the communication. If fully united then such a vast mass would ascend to the third level of their barbaric god's blessing and in their weakened state both together had far too high a chance of defeating their dynasty.
It was plain to him what this communication was, a cry for help.
Should he accept it? Could he accepted.
As a request was submitted to the Praetorian he gestured to Hedjereh asking for his views on the humans, who had taken up residence on the Crucible in his absence and found that his view was remarkably positive for his stoic Nemsor.
Unlike the rest of their kind these were slightly less primitive in their technology, recovering a tiny fraction of their race's previous "glory," while retaining an understanding of their place in the universe, warning them about the incoming awakening of the Orks that they had no chance against, so that they could prepare. And there was the small matter of them utterly humiliating his hated rival, the now practically dead in mind as well as body Ramenhotekh, that certainly did not play any part in his assessment at all. Nor the fact that the tenacious soldier known as "Julius" had destroyed the World Engine of the Shutem dynasty, his ancestral enemy robbing them of great power and influence with that single act. That he would consider such actions impactful on his decisions would be utterly ludicrous.
As the response came in from the Praetorian his circuits glowed. A meeting of this kind was acceptable under the refined and ancient laws of their people if he deemed it so.
It had been so long since he had been able to show off in front of mortals...
Probably a lot more I could do (a Settra long list of titles for example), but I'm happy with how it's turned out for now.
Just a few ideas on us trying to diplomance the local dynasty as well as add some flavour to comparatively one of the quietest members of the neighbourhood.
Thanks @random_npc for betaing.
@Durin
The Great Overlord of the Atum Dynasty, He Who Smote the Raptor of the Stars, whose Wrath Scorched the Heaven and Earth, Breaker of Wills, Forger of Bonds, Councillor of Clear Voice, The Unbending Will and many many many more.
These were titles that Intekhet had earned over his millions of years of existence, but if there was one that he held to above all others it would be the one granted to him by his King.
The Loyal.
In ancient past when the Necrontyr had arisen in the young galaxy the Atum had been among the mightiest of their people, battling for control of the Triarch itself. But those days had passed, their strength lesser than it had been at their height, exchanged for honour and glory.
Although from a now minor dynasty he was fostered by the Tetrarch, and became friends with a young boy he would know as Sz. But, the universe would know as Szarekh.
When the Deceiver tricked their people he stood by his friend as a beacon of support, when he called for a volunteer to march into the bio furnace and be reborn he was the first to step forward. When they charged into the heavens to wreak vengeance upon the hated Old Ones he was there, his war scythe leading the way in the darkest battles and in the proudest of victories.
He had slain Krork High Marshalls, Eldar Phoenix Mages and Jokareo Battlesmiths, he had toppled entire worlds with his own might and watched as the C'tan devoured the iridescent souls of the Old Ones in their ever hungering maws. He had helped conceal the weapons that would secure their freedom from the treacherous parasites and when the time came it was he who plunged the Spike into the chest of Zul'channec, shattering it into ten thousand shards never to be whole again.
It would have been appropriate for such a loyal subject of the Silent King to obey his order to the letter and sleep until it had been decided he should awaken, but to him, his most loyal Overlord, Szarekh entrusted a special duty.
He was to remain awake, and watch. Observe the Crucible of the Old Ones. Ensure that it was not kept unobserved, that its experiments did not endanger the galaxy. To not interfere. To wait. He was only to act if a chance came to destroy the Crucible, or to gain some key piece of information a chance which had come only a bare handful of times.
So he waited, time passing him and his dynasty by, sleeping in rotation, watching both their charge and the galaxy move on around them. Millions of species born and raised, the Aeldari rise so high and fall into decadence without their makers, their worthy foe in the Krork reduced to a petty rabble, civilisation upon civilisation landing upon the Crucible before eventually leaving, each forgotten save for a record within their archives and the Crucible's ever growing catalogue of creatures.
His time and his court's was spent studying, when they were not observing trying to keep their minds free from the twin specters of boredom and madness. Creating new wonders and new weapons both, idling by the millions of years mastering arts, prodding the path of lesser races towards more enjoyable conclusions, watching with some amusement at the antics of the young genius as he stalked the galaxy searching for trinkets and marvelling at the folly of the younger races, sometimes with disgust and other times with awe.
This he believed to be his fate until the end of days until his Lord and Master once again came to him, first before all other Pharaohs. Their forces were to marshall, for great plans were at stake and forces gathered against them. He had seen the Grand Devourer, the biological hoard racing across the galaxy and at his Master's command he was more than happy to throw himself and his dynasty into the fray.
In his cold circuits he could feel the heat burning within him, the pulse of battle, one as grand as the war in Heaven that they had prosecuted so long ago. A break to the monotony of his eternal vigilance one that he welcomed with relish.
Now he was returned to the galaxy, their foe almost vanquished to find it more changed in a shorter span than he had realised possible. Their old foes returned and rejuvenated, the malignant tumor of the Sea of Souls had expanded and grown in its blight, the Outsider returned to haunt them once again while the children of the Krork had become more than a mere annoyance. At least he did not have to constantly fend off boredom simply looking at the reports. Even his charge was filled with more activity than he had seen in a long time. It was preparing itself that much was obvious, but for which threat? Then again did it need to choose? It had created such a vast arsenal for itself that it could effectively counter any force in the galaxy at this stage.
It was within this pondering that his Nemsor Sehetep and Court Astronomer Hedjereh came upon him, baring a most peculiar message.
Transmitted from a human ship that had appeared and then vanished back into the Sea as quickly as it had emerged it read thusly.
To Overlord Intekhet of the Atum Dynasty, you are cordially invited to a neutral meeting in the Tarvonis system. There it is hoped to discuss the circumstances and options to deal with the assemblage of threats currently facing both our proud peoples.
To assure you of the veracity of this message, I would direct your sight upwards, where you shall see that your great purge has not been as absolute a success as you had hoped.
Yours sincerely
The High Council of the Imperial Trust
Thought for the day
+The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy, but two enemies can still fight the enemy of all as one+
A query was transmitted to his most trusted advisors, Hedjereh confirming that he had turned his instruments to the galaxy above and confirmed the presence of a Devourer swarm, one of the six that had successfully broken through their blockade. A mistake that the responsible Pharaoh would not forget anytime soon.
His Nemsor stepped forward then and informed him that the orks of the Bludbusta domain were starting to unite as well, in all probability the other threat alluded to in the communication. If fully united then such a vast mass would ascend to the third level of their barbaric god's blessing and in their weakened state both together had far too high a chance of defeating their dynasty.
It was plain to him what this communication was, a cry for help.
Should he accept it? Could he accepted.
As a request was submitted to the Praetorian he gestured to Hedjereh asking for his views on the humans, who had taken up residence on the Crucible in his absence and found that his view was remarkably positive for his stoic Nemsor.
Unlike the rest of their kind these were slightly less primitive in their technology, recovering a tiny fraction of their race's previous "glory," while retaining an understanding of their place in the universe, warning them about the incoming awakening of the Orks that they had no chance against, so that they could prepare. And there was the small matter of them utterly humiliating his hated rival, the now practically dead in mind as well as body Ramenhotekh, that certainly did not play any part in his assessment at all. Nor the fact that the tenacious soldier known as "Julius" had destroyed the World Engine of the Shutem dynasty, his ancestral enemy robbing them of great power and influence with that single act. That he would consider such actions impactful on his decisions would be utterly ludicrous.
As the response came in from the Praetorian his circuits glowed. A meeting of this kind was acceptable under the refined and ancient laws of their people if he deemed it so.
It had been so long since he had been able to show off in front of mortals...
Probably a lot more I could do (a Settra long list of titles for example), but I'm happy with how it's turned out for now.
Just a few ideas on us trying to diplomance the local dynasty as well as add some flavour to comparatively one of the quietest members of the neighbourhood.
Thanks @random_npc for betaing.
@Durin
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I suppose that is true. Delayed Implement Enchanting Rune for it.
I've changed to Gravitic Array Programming on the basis that it will likely be better against the Tyranids and incoming Orks.
- Location
- Australia
[X] Plan Shard T127
I'm not a big fan of Thunder Warriors. I'd much rather see if we could spend that time and energy trying to improve our Last Hunters especially their lifespans. We just received a boost in tech so maybe the process can be improved with that knowledge and maybe Alkahestry too.
I'm not a big fan of Thunder Warriors. I'd much rather see if we could spend that time and energy trying to improve our Last Hunters especially their lifespans. We just received a boost in tech so maybe the process can be improved with that knowledge and maybe Alkahestry too.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
The latter yes, the former no.
Last Hunters are already more advanced than anything the other polities have in both cybernetics and genetic engineering save the Warriors and Corvus's genetic research.
We'll get an option to try and fix the Hunters more physical problems in the future, but bare in mind their issues are pretty much the same as the Warriors, trying to get far too much out of the human body with augments resulting in it breaking them down rapidly.
We fix one we likely get a boost to fixing the other.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
TWs are a genetic problem while LHs are an augmentation problem though.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
LH augments are genetic and cybernetic (Nilfar genetic machines etc), and both seem to result in similar issues.
It's not a 1:1 fix of course, hence why I said boost to fixing the other.
One last argument on Thunder Warriors.
I have three reasons why trying to fix them is unwise.
1) Now is a bad time.
We have a Hive Fleet on the way. This is both something we need every edge against and something that bio actions are uniquely suited to helping against. Additionally we have (relatively) recently moved into a new Region of Avernus and thus have a lot of low hanging fruit to examine.
2) We aren't ready.
It has been argued that having Alkahestry will help and or synergise with technological bio-modification such as super soldiers. However at present we only have only Journeyman Alkahestry. It would be better to wait until we have Royal knowledge before going forward with such projects.
At present we have only academic knowledge of Thunder Warriors. We have the blueprints but we do not have any living examples. We have not studied TWs. As such I believe any research into fixing the process should be delayed until we have deployed and then evaluated / investigated some.
3) ...define 'fixing'.
It is all well and good to say we want more super soldiers but what we actually need is more of the best type of super soldiers. It can be argued that there are different categories or grades and that there can be a 'best' in each one, but we still don't want to spend resources on second rate options.
The current proposal for Thunder Warriors is to make them more long lived. However we already have 'long duration' super soldiers in the form of Space Marines which are better in almost all ways, vastly cheaper to maintain and have at least one of the Major polities working to improve them. The proposed fix just makes Thunder Warriors less inferior to Space Marines.
We shouldn't be trying to fix the TW process but rather to modify it.
So I suggest an alternative: Leave be for the moment. Make some Thunder Warriors we can then study. Master Alkahestry. Then when we have a little breathing space we can gather together all our super soldier experts and have them see about creating something tailored to our needs and opportunities.
I have three reasons why trying to fix them is unwise.
1) Now is a bad time.
We have a Hive Fleet on the way. This is both something we need every edge against and something that bio actions are uniquely suited to helping against. Additionally we have (relatively) recently moved into a new Region of Avernus and thus have a lot of low hanging fruit to examine.
2) We aren't ready.
It has been argued that having Alkahestry will help and or synergise with technological bio-modification such as super soldiers. However at present we only have only Journeyman Alkahestry. It would be better to wait until we have Royal knowledge before going forward with such projects.
At present we have only academic knowledge of Thunder Warriors. We have the blueprints but we do not have any living examples. We have not studied TWs. As such I believe any research into fixing the process should be delayed until we have deployed and then evaluated / investigated some.
3) ...define 'fixing'.
It is all well and good to say we want more super soldiers but what we actually need is more of the best type of super soldiers. It can be argued that there are different categories or grades and that there can be a 'best' in each one, but we still don't want to spend resources on second rate options.
The current proposal for Thunder Warriors is to make them more long lived. However we already have 'long duration' super soldiers in the form of Space Marines which are better in almost all ways, vastly cheaper to maintain and have at least one of the Major polities working to improve them. The proposed fix just makes Thunder Warriors less inferior to Space Marines.
We shouldn't be trying to fix the TW process but rather to modify it.
So I suggest an alternative: Leave be for the moment. Make some Thunder Warriors we can then study. Master Alkahestry. Then when we have a little breathing space we can gather together all our super soldier experts and have them see about creating something tailored to our needs and opportunities.
1) Better Space Marines. Mass-producible, low maintenance and last at least as long as baseline.
Primarchs should handle this.
2) Agents. Created hero units equipped with the absolute best tech. Improved Last Hunters. Imperial Assassins.
3) Emergency. Upgrade that can be applied to veteran troops (Block Irons for eg), sacrificing longevity for massive short term power.
4-ish) Standard. Boost we can apply to the entire military. Preferably without rendering them infertile. Preferably inheritable.
Primarchs should handle this.
2) Agents. Created hero units equipped with the absolute best tech. Improved Last Hunters. Imperial Assassins.
3) Emergency. Upgrade that can be applied to veteran troops (Block Irons for eg), sacrificing longevity for massive short term power.
4-ish) Standard. Boost we can apply to the entire military. Preferably without rendering them infertile. Preferably inheritable.