The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
May I ask why you are voting the way you do? As a planmaker, seeing a single line vote with no explanation is incredibly demoralizing and doesn't explain why my plan vote is losing.
In my case I'm having a lot of second thoughts, but I'm just rationalising Enjou over you right now...

Which sucks, because I don't like doing so. Both plans are good and I want to do both.

I admit despite my arguments, its the warriors that I'm having the most second thoughts over...like a lot.
 
Mostly because of Tamia, but also for others minor things that were point out before.
I have amended the plan to swap Aria and Tamia doing the Wards and Vault.
Because they are mass-producable supersoldiers that are better than spacemarines but have issues? Issues that we have a decent chance of at least mitigating somewhat?
They aren't really that mass producible. If we mass produced them we would go bankrupt fast and couldn't do any other actions. They are not better than space marines; Space Marines grow at an exponential rate, do not require expensive Juvenat to maintain, Live effectively forever and thus have immense time to gain experience, Have better warp resistance, Have superior reflexes, and effectively were actually polished and completed by the Emperor as a finished product for mass production everywhere.

Furthermore committing to trying and fix the flaws of a supersoldier program when we have yet to see them in action while knowing it is impossible to fix any flaws before an extremely major crisis occurs is reckless. We might need the Biologis actions in regard to the Tyranids, for example. We might decide that, after the first showing of the Thunder Warriors, they are good 'as-is'.

As Durin has said before:

1. The TWs we see in canon are Hero TWs.
2. TWs are less cost-effective than Veteran Helguard.
 
@Durin

1. Could Vinceo Maximal suggest odds for how likely it is he will be able to actually find and solve problems in the TWs? Something like 50%, 20%, etc.
2. What's the expected/simulated kill ratio between a fresh Thunder Warrior vs a fresh Varangian Guard Space Marine?
 
In my case I'm having a lot of second thoughts, but I'm just rationalising Enjou over you right now...

Which sucks, because I don't like doing so. Both plans are good and I want to do both.

I admit despite my arguments, its the warriors that I'm having the most second thoughts over...like a lot.
If it helps; Making more Thunder Warriors is inhumane and following in the Emperor's footsteps?
I was thinking mechanically both would be non-veterans. Like the Thunder Warriors we just produced (~3 Yr of exp) vs new Space Marine recruits (~similar time).
 
@Andres110 - Give me wording for the desired replacement option.
One of these will do, from most-wanted to least. Also I think Persons of Interest should be put off for another turn too. We have a lot of high-priority Diplomacy actions right now.

Request Information (Ask Lamia to forge contacts between us and other Avernite peoples)
-This is so we Lin can get to work on the Primordial Sea as early as next turn. We want it done sooner rather than later in case there's follow-up actions.

Ask Vlad (Is HWWO willing to steal Tyranid samples from the incoming Splinter Hive?)
-Any plan to get the nynye to make an anti-tyranid poison requires the samples. Even if we don't go to the nynye with it, we can study it ourselves for insights.

Nynye Trade (Nynye creating a poison specific to the Tyranid Spliter Hive coming?)
-A follow-up to the above, though it can be done before.

Make A Request (Avernus Species(s) that preys on Hiveminds)
-Any such species would have useful biology or psychic power against the tyranids. Remember, we got LEF deathstrikes after doing just a Complete Examination of the LEF, so it should be relatively quick to implement. Only problem is there might not be a useful creature, but given that two nearby species have hive minds I think there would be.

Make A Request (Assist with Vault Warding)
-With Areatha's help this should work, though I don't know how likely she is to accept doing something so laborious.
 
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@Durin

1. We have a rough estimation of cost effectiveness between Thunder Warriors and Helguard, how do Space Marines fare in that regard when compared to Helguard?
2. Same as 1 but this time the equivalent combat effectiveness. It was 10 Helguard to 1 Thunder warrior, what about Space Marines? How many Helguard to 1 Space Marine?
 
The title of Archmagos Veneratus was created just for him.

Actually no the Archmagos Veneratus rank is a normal rank for very skilled and senior Admech members. That is why I want Maximal to do the TW chain to get promoted to that rank. With him getting promoted it is another big boost to our side of the Admech. The rank that was made for Thranth was Archmagos Veneratus Extremis.


If people other than Andres have a strong preference on this, they should make their opinions known. I'm not married to the action. I just don't want to change it for the sake of one player, given I know there are some other people who want to do it.

I would agree to the switch. Lin already has a decent chance but we want to make sure he passes with the best chance.
 
Because they are mass-producable supersoldiers that are better than spacemarines but have issues? Issues that we have a decent chance of at least mitigating somewhat?
they are not better then Space Marines, they are a bit stronger and tougher but dumber, have slower reaction times and lack several other advantages. In anything but melee a Space Marine beats a THudner Warrior, in melee a Veteran SPace marine beats a Veteran Thunder Warrior

This keeps on coming up based on the actions of a handful of Thudner Warriors in the Horus Heresy who were the ones who outlived the rest of their king by centuries, so are in no way normal. As I have said before. Several times.

@Durin

1. Could Vinceo Maximal suggest odds for how likely it is he will be able to actually find and solve problems in the TWs? Something like 50%, 20%, etc.
2. What's the expected/simulated kill ratio between a fresh Thunder Warrior vs a fresh Varangian Guard Space Marine?
1. unknown
2. in melee? 6-5 the Thunder Warriors favour. In a general fight? 3-2 in the Varangian Guard favor.
 
Request Information (Ask Lamia to forge contacts between us and other Avernite peoples)
-This is so we Lin can get to work on the Primordial Sea as early as next turn. We want it done sooner rather than later in case there's follow-up actions.

Added.

Ask Vlad (Is HWWO willing to steal Tyranid samples from the incoming Splinter Hive?)
-Any plan to get the nynye to make an anti-tyranid poison requires the samples. Even if we don't go to the nynye with it, we can study it ourselves for insights.

Already had something like that.
 
Than the thunder warriors can fill our needed area of Melee troops we need. We are somewhat good because we have power weapons but against armies that specialize in melee we will now have a counter.
 
@Durin

1. We have a rough estimation of cost effectiveness between Thunder Warriors and Helguard, how do Space Marines fare in that regard when compared to Helguard?
2. Same as 1 but this time the equivalent combat effectiveness. It was 10 Helguard to 1 Thunder warrior, what about Space Marines? How many Helguard to 1 Space Marine?
1. better then a Thunder Warrior, they are around the same price if more time consuming to make , and cheaper to keep running
2. similar for raw recruits, the number starts rising quickly for veterans and an Astartes Veteran is more then a match for 100 Helguard.
 
If it helps; Making more Thunder Warriors is inhumane and following in the Emperor's footsteps?
Nice try, but following in emps footsteps would be randomly massacring them after they've served their purpose.

I get your logic though.

2. in melee? 6-5 the Thunder Warriors favour. In a general fight? 3-2 in the Varangian Guard favor.
Those are really good odds for something meant to be mass produced quickly TBF.

I can count on my hands the number of beings that can get any kind of non X:1 ratio on space marines of any kind, never mind a positive.
 
Nice try, but following in emps footsteps would be randomly massacring them after they've served their purpose.

I get your logic though.
Arguably, if we want to surpass the Emperor, should we not do so in our own way? For instance Lulana has already agreed to doing 2 Supersoldier Projects with Alkahestry.. Surely, the best way would not be in optimizing a previous, disregarded flawed product, but in creating one that surpasses the one which he has often used and relied upon? Imagine creating a supersoldier superior to Astartes. Imagine augmenting the psykers he had so long disregarded to supremacy - He is for humanity so we could create a truly human superhuman, not one with their emotions altered and their body distorted in inhuman ways.

And then having them not mass-falling to chaos like the originals.
 
Arguably, if we want to surpass the Emperor, should we not do so in our own way? For instance Lulana has already agreed to doing 2 Supersoldier Projects with Alkahestry.. Surely, the best way would not be in optimizing a previous, disregarded flawed product, but in creating one that surpasses the one which he has often used and relied upon? Imagine creating a supersoldier superior to Astartes. Imagine augmenting the psykers he had so long disregarded to supremacy - He is for humanity so we could create a truly human superhuman, not one with their emotions altered and their body distorted in inhuman ways.

And then having them not mass-falling to chaos like the originals.
waddafuk r u on about
 
Actually no the Archmagos Veneratus rank is a normal rank for very skilled and senior Admech members. That is why I want Maximal to do the TW chain to get promoted to that rank. With him getting promoted it is another big boost to our side of the Admech. The rank that was made for Thranth was Archmagos Veneratus Extremis.
Vinceo is more likely to earn Archmagus Veneratus from researching Avernus Wildlife. The only reason we don't have an Archmagos Veneratus BIologis is because they die to wildlife all the time.
 
Vinceo is more likely to earn Archmagus Veneratus from researching Avernus Wildlife. The only reason we don't have an Archmagos Veneratus BIologis is because they die to wildlife all the time.
They all died Less than a century after getting on the planet. Maximal has outlived them all has done more than all the others combined worked on more projects and examined greater numbers of wildlife. None of that was enough more wildlife will not change that only a sufficiently advanced and important project will do that. Also Maximal has survived more than 200 as the bioloigis the "they die all the time" hasn't applied for a long time.
 
Arguably, if we want to surpass the Emperor, should we not do so in our own way? For instance Lulana has already agreed to doing 2 Supersoldier Projects with Alkahestry.. Surely, the best way would not be in optimizing a previous, disregarded flawed product, but in creating one that surpasses the one which he has often used and relied upon? Imagine creating a supersoldier superior to Astartes. Imagine augmenting the psykers he had so long disregarded to supremacy - He is for humanity so we could create a truly human superhuman, not one with their emotions altered and their body distorted in inhuman ways.

And then having them not mass-falling to chaos like the originals.
waddafuk r u on about
He's using my known emperor bias to convince me into swapping plans and I won't deny his arguments are not convincing...

At the same time, I do imagine its a superior **** you to not only improve upon, but surpass the work he disregarded as useless.

That being said you assume my goals are limited to simply the thunder warriors oh ye of little faith Shard.

No my true concern is actually about the tyranids with a pressing need to do physical research on them and agreement that starting to fix the warriors now isn't the best time.

@Enjou, I know its late at this stage, but I fear I must do as my heart and mind suggest no matter how painful, but both plans do start using them as is, so I'm glad that at least is happening regardless.

I will be withdrawing from your plan so long as we're starting on the Thunder Warrior fixing it can be done after when we've got some breathing room.

I will however be insisting upon it when that comes around.

[X] Plan Shard T127

Shard I'd request that you swap a diplo slot around to get talking to the Eyrale trader, we've got her might as well see what she's got for us.

Vinceo is more likely to earn Archmagus Veneratus from researching Avernus Wildlife. The only reason we don't have an Archmagos Veneratus BIologis is because they die to wildlife all the time.
I dunno, the previous two were kinda...average by archmagos standards.

They all died Less than a century after getting on the planet. Maximal has outlived them all has done more than all the others combined worked on more projects and examined greater numbers of wildlife. None of that was enough more wildlife will not change that only a sufficiently advanced and important project will do that. Also Maximal has survived more than 200 as the bioloigis the "they die all the time" hasn't applied for a long time.
Mostly because he has a bunch of traits and legendary combat skills.
 
@Enjou, I know its late at this stage, but I fear I must do as my heart and mind suggest no matter how painful, but both plans do start using them as is, so I'm glad that at least is happening regardless.

I will be withdrawing from your plan so long as we're starting on the Thunder Warrior fixing it can be done after when we've got some breathing room.

I will however be insisting upon it when that comes around.

[X] Plan Shard T127

Your treachery will be remembered, Wombat! And then promptly forgotten, because I have more important things to care about.

:p
 
@Shard I was looking over your plan is there a reason you do not have spreading the word double downed? Also you still need a year 5 action for the free Admech slot.
 
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[X] Plan Enjou T127

Would prefer not to start looking for ways to improve the TWs yet with the Biologis action, but prefer the Explorator actions as well as the Telepathica ones.
 
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