I disagree. He's a major political rival for us, but the big conference has exposed him to Vulcan and possibly driven him towards a more progressive stance. It would be useful for us to know how far he's done in that direction, because it affects Trust politics in a way that will end up affecting our own future actions towards him.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
I disagree. He's a major political rival for us, but the big conference has exposed him to Vulcan and possibly driven him towards a more progressive stance. It would be useful for us to know how far he's done in that direction, because it affects Trust politics in a way that will end up affecting our own future actions towards him.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Unless they were built after he left.
But, he could certainly point us to the plains and vale.
Could ask him to go there and grab anything useful there.
- Location
- Australia
And you really think it's more important then getting more help with the Primordial Sea? Or finding an anti-hive mind creature? Or getting Areatha to help with the vault's wards? Or talking to the nynye about making a poison? If not, I don't see the reason in doing Bertil first of all things.
Also, has any re-examination ever changed anything? Even one example where looking at a guy again changed what happened or how we did things?
What do you even expect will change after we look at him?
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I just don't understand how crazy people are over yet another super soldier program. We already have multiple. Helguard are already basically super soldiers by any normal standard. Then there's Last Hunters, Nulls, and Space Marines.
Thunder Warriors were essentially prototype Space Marines. Wouldn't any improvements we did just lead back to Space Marines with the same limitations that TWs don't have?
Plus being able to build a million of them would be pretty much pointless. When you make a million of something they get downgraded to chaff anyways and no longer really count as super elites. If you really want super soldiers then you pretty much have to stick to only a small number. It's the same thing that happened to Helguard. So TW's ability to be mass produced isn't actually a plus in a super soldier program in Embers. They'll be downgraded from super elites to high chaff and be mowed down by super soldiers that remained limited, while still costing as much as a super soldier program.
If we want better super soldiers then investing in upgrades for the Last Hunters is a better idea. Alkestry enhancements for them, or researching new combat drugs or something of that sort.
If we want better chaff than upgrading the power armor of our helguard accomplishes that without tying up a research project for a century.
Thunder Warriors were essentially prototype Space Marines. Wouldn't any improvements we did just lead back to Space Marines with the same limitations that TWs don't have?
Plus being able to build a million of them would be pretty much pointless. When you make a million of something they get downgraded to chaff anyways and no longer really count as super elites. If you really want super soldiers then you pretty much have to stick to only a small number. It's the same thing that happened to Helguard. So TW's ability to be mass produced isn't actually a plus in a super soldier program in Embers. They'll be downgraded from super elites to high chaff and be mowed down by super soldiers that remained limited, while still costing as much as a super soldier program.
If we want better super soldiers then investing in upgrades for the Last Hunters is a better idea. Alkestry enhancements for them, or researching new combat drugs or something of that sort.
If we want better chaff than upgrading the power armor of our helguard accomplishes that without tying up a research project for a century.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
That makes sense. Though there remains a chance that Melta bombs will turn out to be too big or fragile to work really well for that, studying all infantry scale explosives might be better.
For example, if the problem is hitting harder Russia had (impractical)Fission bullets(Why did the USSR refuse from atomic bullets?), and there might be other types of impact initiated explosive that have whatever traits they need in order to be fired out of an Impaler(magnetic? Conductive?[not sure if it's a railgun or coilgun], initiated by a high velocity impact rather than acceleration).
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IIRC we already asked about this. Not in an update, just asked about it and he didn't know of any.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Nah they'd lead to Trueborn light we hope.
But, well...can't make trueborn.
+ We can do alkhestrical enhancements, they are in a different action category remember.
I admit I am having lots of second thoughts, but I always do when I vote for things, so I'm just hoping things remain civil.
On an unrelated note.
I don't think that's how the system works.
Becoming chaff represents there being a lot of them. It doesn't change the fact that super elite is still super elite. They don't magically gain a weakness to other super elites whose attacks become super effective against them unless said super elite is significantly higher in quality than the chaff.
There's rule of narrative and then there's no sense.
- Location
- Australia
We have melta missiles and melta shells, so melta rounds should be doable for at least for the larger variants of impaler.
Apparently Thunder Warriors are about ten times as effective per soldier compared to hellguard and that is without improvements to the creation process or any new special gear. If I remember correctly Thunder Warriors actually surpass Space Marines in raw combat capabilities, at least outside of Embers, but space marines are more stable, live longer and have other augments. Normally in a match between Thunder Warrior and Space Marine, you could bet on the Thunder Warrior. Then there is the fact that we can't mass produce Last Hunters while we can produce Thunder Warriors en-masse and export the process to Midgard after we finish working out the kinks and have them do something with it too in addition to ourselves.
Melta rounds for even large impalers doesn't seem likely - the ammo for them is still relatively small AFAIK, so I'm not sure how that would work given that melta weapons are described as using "highly pressurized pyrum-petrol gases with a two part injection system which forces the gases into a molecular state, which will vaporise just about anything."
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
May I ask why you are voting the way you do? As a planmaker, seeing a single line vote with no explanation is incredibly demoralizing and doesn't explain why my plan vote is losing.
Utter Bastard Dragons have been the ones with the most notable 'Almost killed Character' notes. Thunder Warrior research can potentially go nowhere and will take more decades to implement in the best scenario. Both plans implement the Thunder Warriors action; There is a long argument as to the benefits of researching the Thunder Warriors.
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[X] Plan Shard T127
Sold on "why do a reinvestigate action" basis.
Sold on "why do a reinvestigate action" basis.
- Location
- madison
I strongly suspect that special issue impales will use larger but slower rounds, since the point of them is using special rounds.
- Location
- Australia
The special issue impalers will have to have barrels big enough to take in special ammunition, such as incendiary ammunition, or haywire ammo. If they're big enough for that, then melta rounds should be possible as well.
Bolters also use special ammunition, but I'll note that there aren't melta-bolter rounds. There are other types of "light shit on fire" bolter rounds, mind you, but not melta ones.
I think there's likely to be a limit to how small you can make an effective melta-weapon.
If people other than Andres have a strong preference on this, they should make their opinions known. I'm not married to the action. I just don't want to change it for the sake of one player, given I know there are some other people who want to do it.
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- Location
- Europe
Mostly because of Tamia, but also for others minor things that were point out before.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I don't know why people are so endeared on 'fixing' the Thunder Warriors when they have never seen them in action. We already have Durin's note on their cost effectiveness, which is greater than Helguard and less than Veteran Helguard. That's before we even know if it's possible to fix Thunder Warriors. Plus the Biologis action could be used on the potential Hive-Mind Predator which we might find.
Because they are mass-producable supersoldiers that are better than spacemarines but have issues? Issues that we have a decent chance of at least mitigating somewhat?
- Location
- Australia
Could be the issue isn't size, but weight. In canon, plasma bolt shells are a thing and used by the Custodes, but they're very heavy. The weight means they need a much larger firing charge to fire, which in turn requires very expensive, high-durability guns to withstand the firing force. Our impalers already provide a higher firing force and do so cheaply, so that won't be an issue. The melta rounds would have less range than normal impaler rounds but much greater armour-piercing ability and damage.
- Location
- United States
I want them to improve our psyker hunting capabilities.
Its marginal, but i do think Andres is correct on this one.
I wasn't under the impression that we were doing it as soon as next turn. He's still got a few decades left on him and this is something that could kill him, so I had thought we'd be waiting a wee bit longer.
Anyways, enough people have voiced a desire for change that I'll change it.
@Andres110 - Give me wording for the desired replacement option.