Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

TehChron said:

Im pretty sure that woodwind is used since its the highest music skill. As compared to all the stuff that goes on in narrative where its just Zeqing or Ling Qi or Hanyi singing without the aid of instruments lol

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Woodwind is our highest music skill though, and we don't want to use subpar skills fighting a giant ape beetle now do we? That means we should use woodwind and have free hands.

Also, uh, whoops for vote-splitting my own plan?

[X] Erebeal

Reading posts above. Thinking...

I see. Changing my vote.

[x]Get in close, keep the creatures attention focused wholly on you,
-[x] Use TRF to free Suyin to move (DWV or TRU?). Attempt to burst down as fast as possible using FSS. Stay on the ground and close to it to try to make it focus on hitting us rather than bringing the cave down with its gravitational field.

P.S.: I am pretty sure that we can express one melody by different means, song and flute are just two of these means. Even if LQ learned FSS as song, in battle she play it as melody by flute.

I always thought that using our flute to attack would look something like this:

Erebeal said:

-[] Use TRF to free Suyin to move (DWV or TRU?). Attempt to burst down as fast as possible using FSS. Stay on the ground and close to it to try to make it focus on hitting us rather than bringing the cave down with its gravitational field.

There are other things that I think are also worth discussing here. TRU was challenged before as slowing us down and taking more time than Deepwood (though I'd note that "instant" and "response" no longer exist as clearly defined tech properties). If, however, we are intending to bait the Antlion like this I'm inclined to think that having TRU up is actually a rather good idea, giving us both potent defenses as well as immunity to grabs etc. (remember that DW is no longer a long term defensive buff).

That being said, leaving that decision up to yrsillar might be the correct decision here.

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Yeah, leaving it up to Yrsillar is best, simply because Ling Qi has a better understanding of her techs and of the current situation than us.

[x]Get in close, keep the creatures attention focused wholly on you,
-[x] Use TRF to free Suyin to move (DWV or TRU?). Attempt to burst down as fast as possible using FSS. Stay on the ground and close to it to try to make it focus on hitting us rather than bringing the cave down with its gravitational field.

Erebeal said:

I am going to say though, in all seriousness, the Antlion does appear to have decent offensive stats. Theoretically, yes, our art advantage from things like Deepwood, TRU, and full power GCD should allow us to handle it, but it is actually a legit threat to us statwise.

My plan of baiting it into melee attacks could be argued to be risky, and based on excessive paranoia about the risk of cave-in via graviga.

Flying could, in theory, be said to be safer - though of course if we're genuinely out of its reach it does run the risk of it going for Suyin (though it could also be argued that it's not going to go for her when we're busy blasting its face with all the DPS).

I think these issues should be seriously considered.

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As you noted, the issue with Flying is it might provoke the Antlion into doing more big AoEs inhalations to catch us, which is neither good for the cave nor Suyin.

Also, statwise, I think I can see a pattern there:

Antlion said:

Cultivation Level 7
Health: B QI: C
Speed: D Init: D

1. Perc. C15
2. Hit: C20 P. Pen A
3. Hit: B10 S. Pen C

Primary Elements: Earth, Dark, ???

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It seems it has high spiritual hit to debuff one's physical avoid, and then finishes one off with low accuracy but extremely high damage hits. Thankfully we have Sixiang to take care of the debuff against us (our own dispels being much lower ranked than hers), our avoid should be significantly superior to their hits (B3~ before GCD and other techs, likely B20+ after), but most importantly even if we do get hit DWV/HRA/TRU would help us endure it as long as it's not constant.

Erebeal said:

Of course, if we get injured or put ourselves in harms way to protect Suyin, it might just be the thing to make Ling Qi feel better about herself!

Being risky here could be a good character decision!

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This sounds like terrible reasoning, frankly.

Asael said:

This sounds like terrible reasoning, frankly.

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I find it pretty easy to follow.

A big part of Ling Qi's hangup about the dream was that she isn't sure she would have risked her life instead of going along with the Hunt if it had been one of her close friends instead of Shen Hu there.

Well, here's a chance for Qi to reasure herself that she will put it all on the line for people who matter to her.

Now if they win easily, she could have some niggling doubt that if it had been serious she would have ran, but if goes less well she could be more sure of her conviction.

OneArmedYeti said:

I find it pretty easy to follow.

A big part of Ling Qi's hangup about the dream was that she isn't sure she would have risked her life instead of going along with the Hunt if it had been one of her close friends instead of Shen Hu there.

Well, here's a chance for Qi to reasure herself that she will put it all on the line for people who matter to her.

Now if they win easily, she could have some niggling doubt that if it had been serious she would have ran, but if goes less well she could be more sure of her conviction.

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Whether or not it's easy to follow is not the point.

I wouldn't consider self destructive impulses to be beneficial to LQ character growth. Frankly, if this kind of would be martyr-dom becomes part of LQ, I dont think I'd be able to continue following this quest.

It's not a healthy mindset in the least.

Asael said:

Whether or not it's easy to follow is not the point.

I wouldn't consider self destructive impulses to be beneficial to LQ character growth. Frankly, if this kind of would be martyr-dom becomes part of LQ, I dont think I'd be able to continue following this quest.

It's not a healthy mindset in the least.

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I highly doubt that is the path LQ will take. It is far more likely that Ling Qi will take this chance to refirm with herself that she will take care of her friends.

Neshuakadal said:

I highly doubt that is the path LQ will take. It is far more likely that Ling Qi will take this chance to refirm with herself that she will take care of her friends.

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Funny, I thought she had already resolved her convictions.

yrsillar said:

When the final notes faded and Ling Qi turned her attention back to her more physical senses, she found herself once again meeting her opponents eyes. The pity was gone, leaving only a resignation. "You've got your conviction, I'll give you that," the other girl said grudgingly.

"I appreciate you taking my challenge," Ling Qi replied, "I wasn't sure I still had it, until I put this together." She still felt horror, looking back at that dream, but she couldn't dwell on it, only learn and move forward. To banish fear, and create a place for herself, she needed to continue growing stronger.

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And wouldn't you know it!, it didnt involve doing something stupid and self destructive!

Asael said:

Funny, I thought she had already resolved her convictions.


And wouldn't you know it!, it didnt involve doing something stupid and self destructive!

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If Ling Qi had reaffirmed her convictions the shaken penalty would have disappeared. It takes more than one song stating her beliefs to prove her resolve.

[X] Erebeal

yrsillar said:

That aside though, she was already learning much. Seeing that she had some basic skill in tracking from time spent with Su Ling last year, he focused on the more esoteric aspects, that were beyond mere mortal skill. The qi of a Cloud Tribesman had a different texture from an imperial cultivators, and one could detect traces of a bound spirits partner in the traces they left behind. She was learning the ways to detect the disturbances in the background energies of the world left by the passage of higher realm beasts and cultivators as well.

It was hard to describe precisely, but potent auras left behind ripples and eddies that could be detected long after their passing. She had begun to dampen the signs of her own passage instinctively over the last year, the lessons of Sable Crescent Step showing dividends despite never precisely teaching her what she was doing.

It was very educational, and Ling Qi was sure that she was on the edge of an advancement in her ability to conceal herself, but it simply had not come yet.

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Some interesting tidbits about how Cultivators leave marks on the background qi, though we already know some of that from the...louder Domains out there.

Probably a bigger focus for investigators than scouts though.

yrsillar said:

Li Suyin seemed to detect her unasked question as she fiddled with one of the many pouches on the harness she wore across her chest. "The reason we can approach and find it so easily is that we have the tokens that bypass the formation, anyone else would be compelled to avoid this place. It also seals the hole against further contamination from outside, and vice versa."

"There's something poisonous in there then?" Ling Qi asked with a frown, peering down at the chalky floor of the cavern visible through the crack.

"It's more...ah mutual toxicity," Li Suyin replied, gesturing for her attention. When Ling Qi turned to her, Li Suyin handed her a small blue pill. "This should shield you from the effects of the air below for six hours. I have more if we look to be running longer."

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Something like righthanded vs lefthanded DNA?
Or like the Impurity theory mooted(though that's weird under the faux taoism metaphysics of most Xianxia, as impurity is just supposed to be everything mixed up rather than an elemental force in its own right).

...or I suppose the Classic Cultivator model is Order based. You strain out particular flavors of qi, name them, sort them, label them, then braid them together. That's be the alternate reading of the Yin/Yang symbol, a spot of chaos in a sea of order counterbalancing a spot of order in a sea of chaos.
Impurity in this would be Chaos, working with the raw mess?

yrsillar said:

Ling Qi took the pill, and after rolling it between her fingers for a moment, popped it in her mouth. It tasted like the fresh unsullied air of an unspoiled vale. There was also a hint of mint. Next to her, Li Suyin was doing the same, but with two pills, the difference in their realms she supposed. "Well, let's not waste any time then," Ling Qi replied brightly. She'd keep her friend safe, and they'd leave this place laden with loot. She wouldn't let it end any other way.

A minute later, she landed on the cavern floor in a puff of dust. The small chamber around her was still and silent. Here and there the withered remains of fungal growths clung to the walls and floor, and the scattered bones of vermin lay half buried in the chalky dust that coated the floor. The faint, sickly sweet scent of rot made her wrinkle her nose.

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Mmm, drugs.
Looks like the vermin and fungus just...died wherever the outside air hit any of it.

yrsillar said:

"Why do you have that pack and all of those pouches anyway, did something happen to your storage ring?" She asked as Li Suyin dropped the last few meters, landing with a thud that seemed thunderous to Ling Qi, even if she knew it wasn't really loud.

Li Suyin peered at her, and it occurred to her that her friend couldn't see perfectly in the dark. Ling Qi felt a small shift in the other girls qi, and the stitched patterns on her eyepatch lit up, casting a dim cone of light from its surface. "I want to save the space for reagents," she explained. "And… storage rings have trouble holding large numbers of complex or volatile formations."

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So she's carrying bombs. Cool.

yrsillar said:

"Just a moment," Li Suyin replied. She pressed her hand to the wall, and Ling Qi cocked her head to the side curiously as a half dozen skeletal mice scurried out of her sleeve, skittering away into the cave. She could still see them, forming a shifting perimeter around the two of them. What happened next made her raise her eyebrows, Li Suyin threw a pair of pellets to the floor, producing columns of smoke, and from them emerged two hulking skeletons.

The first looked to be an evolution of her first guard prototype. The skeleton of a bear, sculpted into humanoid shape, save for its grinning skull, slung slow over its broad shoulders. It was bound together with silk, and armored in overlapping bands of iron. It clutched a heavy mace in one hand, and a shield that must have weighed something like forty or fifty kilograms in the other. The second looked to have been crafted from a wild boar, it's tusked skull sitting so low that seemed to almost jut from it's chest. This creature was armed with a heavy guandao.

They were only late second realm, but they seemed like pretty solid constructions, given that. Ling Qi wouldn't have much trouble with them, but they would probably even or tip the odds for Suyin against any enemy of her own realm. "Ready?" Ling Qi asked.

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Pokeballs for a necromancer!

yrsillar said:

What lies below is far more fascinating than the empty, dusty cave below. Ling Qi found as they descending the twisting tunnel leading deeper into the earth, that the further they grew from the surface and the sun, the more the caverns came alive. It began small, stalks of wriggling pale white fungus growing from the floors and ceiling, grasping weakly at the hems of their skirts as they passed, then towering columns of fungal flesh that stretched from the floor to the ceiling of the next chamber, bloated and putrescent, their size crushing them against the ceiling and leading to spiderwebbing growths of pulsing blue white flesh across the ceiling.

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Interesting place, though we've seen similar in the Weilu tomb, Ling Qi wasn't really paying much attention. For starters the fungus try to grab and presumably absorb anything they can. Related to how the pill can drain out impurities from meridians?

Wonder what keeps them fed, the size seems to indicate they're getting a lot out of the environment.

yrsillar said:

In the fungal grove they found below, pale lizards with blind, bulging eyes and mouths that trailed fetid spores darted in and out of the waving tendrils, chasing insectoid puffballs that moved about with jets of sporechoked air. Li Suyin still seemed at ease here, moving among the not-trees with a purpose. Ling Qi kept a wary eye open regardless, but it seemed this was not their destination. Li Suyin had already collected plenty of samples from here, their destination lay deeper still.

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Fungal biome.
I wonder how distinct the critters are from the fungus itself.

yrsillar said:

Ling Qi glanced back as they descended from the first living cavern. "So, what should I be worrying about anyway? Everything has seemed pretty docile so far."

"The third level is a bit more dangerous, and where I'll begin harvesting," Li Suyin replied confidently. "Um, the danger is mostly in carnivorous lizards and certain kinds of fungus. There shouldn't be much real danger yet. Once I've harvested what I need, we can descend to the fourth, I turned back last time, since I sensed a third realm presence below."

Ling Qi nodded in understanding as they reached the bottom of the tunnel, the growth was thicker here, and the wildlife more aggressive. For the first time in a long time, Ling Qi got a chance to exercise her skill with throwing knives. Her songs would be a bit too destructive for now. Despite her recent experiences, it was difficult not to sink into boredom as she made a game of pinning the various lizards and fungus bug things with her knives when they got too close, and summoned a few worms to hunt down smaller critters for Li Suyin to carve up.

Li Suyin's guards did their share of pest swatting as well, and once, Ling Qi held back and let them handle a larger foe, letting them handle a relatively strong second realm fungus beast that shambled out of the 'woods' having taken taken offense to Li Suyin's cutting and sampling. They performed well enough, the shielded one putting up a barrier of wind that blocked the miasma of spores the creature released from reaching the two of them while the other efficiently removed its limbs and chopped it to pieces.

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I'm seeing a lot of spore attack modes. How effective are those against native creatures? Everything from the lizards to the shambler used them.

yrsillar said:

"It's fine," Ling Qi dismissed, it wasn't much of an adventure so far, but after her expedition with Shen Hu last month…

"Do you feel that?" Sixiang asked, interrupting her thoughts.

Ling Qi frowned as Li Suyin moved to harvest the dead fungus beast, looking down at the floor, drawn by Sixiang's silent direction. There was a disturbance in the earth qi below her feet, a twisting, whorl of growing disturbance with a ravenous, all consuming hunger at its core. Ling Qi's eyes darted to the side as she saw vibration traveling up the fungus stalks, and a pebble just beginning to rattle.

In an instant, she was at Li Suyin's side, pulling her backward as the floor beneath their feet shattered and fell.

Her friend let out a surprised yelp, but recovered well, landing on the now shattered sandy slope of the sinkhole that had consumed the cavern for twenty meters around. Her constructs landed with heavy thuds, digging their weapons into the earth to avoid sliding further down. Even as they did, dozens of the beasts they had been casually slaying fell, squealing and fighting, sliding through the newly formed sand toward what lay at the bottom.

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...and there's the Third Realm beast. Which apparently hunts from the fourth floor targeting the third by using Earth suction crush. Which if Suyin had come alone, would have snagged her as a tasty treat

Clever boy.
...wouldn't we be poisonous to it I wonder?

yrsillar said:

What Ling QI saw down there, unhindered by the darkness was hideous, she might have called it nightmarish once.

Eleven beady eyes arranged haphazardly across a misshapen face gazed balefully up at them from either side of a vertical maw filled with gnashing teeth. Protruding a full meter from both sides of that maw were a pair of snapping spiked pincers that gleamed with traces of metal in their chitin. The beasts body lay half buried yet at the bottom of the sinkhole, and was shelled like a beetles, however, it's two foremost limbs resembled more the arms of an ape, with three fingered stubby clawed hands large enough to grasp a human around the waist.

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Earth and Metal element. Strong against...I think Wood and Water?

Also I'd call it a Gnawing One except antlions already look that horrific without any assistance but size.

yrsillar said:

The thing inhaled, and Ling QI braced herself along with her friend as a pair scrambling dog sized lizards fell shrieking into its gnashing teeth, ground up into gore and meat in seconds. The thing let out a ululating shriek then, and turned hungry eyes toward the pair of them.

Ling Qi grimaced as she felt a feeling of weight pressing down on her shoulders, like the pull of the earth redoubled and more. The feeling washed away in shimmering sparks of moonlight a bare second later, but she saw Li Suyin grimacing, her shoulders drooping as if under a great weight. Above them, Ling Qi heard a faint crack, and a single narrow fracture appeared in the ceiling.

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Autodispel is god.

SITB said:

If Ling Qi had reaffirmed her convictions the shaken penalty would have disappeared. It takes more than one song stating her beliefs to prove her resolve.

[X] Erebeal

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So, let's get her fucking maimed, right?, I'm sure that's good for her.

Asael said:

So, let's get her fucking maimed, right?, I'm sure that's good for her.

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I don't think that Ling Qi making herself a target because she is better armored and more dodgy than Li Suyin immediately translates to getting maimed.

Remember that Ling Qi is the most powerful being in this fight and far hardier than Li Suyin. Also, Cultivators in general bounce faster from injuries and I assume it becomes easier the higher your realm is.

SITB said:

I don't think that Ling Qi making herself a target because she is better armored and more dodgy than Li Suyin immediately translates to getting maimed.

Remember that Ling Qi is the most powerful being in this fight and far hardier than Li Suyin. Also, Cultivators in general bounce faster from injuries and I assume it becomes easier the higher your realm is.

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Sorry, I am getting a bit worked up over this.

But this chain started with Erebeal implying that we should get LQ hurt for her own good, basically.

I'm not cool with that kind of thinking. Incidental is one thing, but players really shouldn't be trying to get LQ wrecked.

Asael said:

Sorry, I am getting a bit worked up over this.

But this chain started with Erebeal implying that we should get LQ hurt for her own good, basically.

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I think this isn't quite what they meant. I'm pretty sure it was more on line with "it might go a little south, but even if it does..."

OneArmedYeti said:

I think this isn't quite what they meant. I'm pretty sure it was more on line with "it might go a little south, but even if it does..."

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Hero complex's are a sore issue with me. Frankly, it sounds a lot like trying to foster that kind of mindset.

Asael said:

Whether or not it's easy to follow is not the point.

I wouldn't consider self destructive impulses to be beneficial to LQ character growth. Frankly, if this kind of would be martyr-dom becomes part of LQ, I dont think I'd be able to continue following this quest.

It's not a healthy mindset in the least.

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I think Ling Qi taking her goals seriously and her beliefs seriously is a healthy mindset.

Ling Qi very much has a "I want to be strong enough to make sure my loved ones are safe" mindset, and right here she is proving that she is strong enough to make Suyin safe. This is a responsibility she took gladly, and there is nothing unhealthy about making yourself responsible for safeguarding someone weaker than you.

Given this thing's statblock, I'm pretty skeptical of jumping to tanky techs right off the bat. Our actual advantage in getting close relative to its capabilities us our capacity for evading its attacks, not getting gnawed on by A rank pen that likely includes a grapple effect. I mean, we're great at getting out of grapples but that's time spent not doing other things and we're the big hitter on the team.

Relatively mediocre hit and perceptiveness makes me think dropping PLR would be effective as additional decoys while we're in its face. It does run the risk of inciting its heavy AoE, but it could really go either way. If it thinks it has a meal right in front of its face, it could very well opt for more direct mom's. At least fir a little while before it gets frustrated at the meals turning out to have very little substance.

But seriously, I'm not sure our defensive buffs are actually going to do shit if a 3rd realm with A rank pen bites Li Suyin. Perception screening actually plays against its weaknesses.

Arkeus said:

This is a responsibility she took gladly, and there is nothing unhealthy about making yourself responsible for safeguarding someone weaker than you.

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I like what your saying, and imma let'chyoo finish, but I just wanted to say I think my girl Li Suyin is about to surprise us(LQ) with exactly how much weaker than us she is.

Shit, forgot to work in "of all time"

At any rate, LQ probably relies quite a bit on those fancy Cultivation/Meridian sensing eyes of her to gauge strength, and Li Suyin has a build that cares more about Derived Formations, Derived Medicine, time spent researching/crafting.

We ain't got eyes to measure those.

Arkeus said:

I think Ling Qi taking her goals seriously and her beliefs seriously is a healthy mindset.

Ling Qi very much has a "I want to be strong enough to make sure my loved ones are safe" mindset, and right here she is proving that she is strong enough to make Suyin safe. This is a responsibility she took gladly, and there is nothing unhealthy about making yourself responsible for safeguarding someone weaker than you.

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I seem to recall you also thought LQ was responsible for Suyins eyepatch issue, because we didn't choose to rush to her. A stance I still thoroughly disagree with.

The fact of the matter is, this is massively condescending. Suyin is not LQ's pet, or her kid. Suyin is her friend and peer.

LQ is not responsible for Suyin. As a friend it's appropriate to help out when asked or needed.

AbeoLogos said:

But seriously, I'm not sure our defensive buffs are actually going to do shit if a 3rd realm with A rank pen bites Li Suyin.

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Yeah, if the turn 2 character sheet is still up to date in terms of Phys Avoid and Armor she'll be in pretty big trouble if she has an attack aimed at her.

Since we took the vote designed to stop exactly that, I'm not too worried.

If it does take a swing at her, I think the odds of Suyin being truly oneshot are pretty slim if she has literally any response to that herself besides *Bleed*, and with our next turn we should be able to either reinforce her with TRU or get her out.

I think Suyin would be most at risk if we used our standard strategy, as it would leave her blind against an opponent almost certainly using techs to get her to fall down into it.

Most likely the predator sticks on us with its intentional attacks, and it's threat to Suyin will be in the form of it trying to draw her into what is probably an automagically activated AOE at the bottom of the pit by whipping up the walls of the pit and pulling down with gravity, and accidentally wrecking the cave with gravity.

Asael said:

I seem to recall you also thought LQ was responsible for Suyins eyepatch issue, because we didn't choose to rush to her. A stance I still thoroughly disagree with.

The fact of the matter is, this is massively condescending. Suyin is not LQ's pet, or her kid. Suyin is her friend and peer.

LQ is not responsible for Suyin. As a friend it's appropriate to help out when asked or needed.

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And suyin both asked for our help against the third realm beast and needed it (it's why she didn't go on the fourth floor before).

Moreover, LQ doesn't have an hero complex, she won't put herself in danger for anyone, but she would for her friends. At best she has a friend complex.

AbeoLogos said:

Given this thing's statblock, I'm pretty skeptical of jumping to tanky techs right off the bat. Our actual advantage in getting close relative to its capabilities us our capacity for evading its attacks, not getting gnawed on by A rank pen that likely includes a grapple effect. I mean, we're great at getting out of grapples but that's time spent not doing other things and we're the big hitter on the team.

Relatively mediocre hit and perceptiveness makes me think dropping PLR would be effective as additional decoys while we're in its face. It does run the risk of inciting its heavy AoE, but it could really go either way. If it thinks it has a meal right in front of its face, it could very well opt for more direct mom's. At least fir a little while before it gets frustrated at the meals turning out to have very little substance.

But seriously, I'm not sure our defensive buffs are actually going to do shit if a 3rd realm with A rank pen bites Li Suyin. Perception screening actually plays against its weaknesses.

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PLR is an interesting choice that would make Ling Qi much safer, as the low-ish perception of the Antlion should mean IPF is somewhat effective, yeah. Our superior dodge + PLR should actually make it a very easy fight if we were alone. Likewise FVM would straight up lolnope it, were we not worried about making it a long fight. As you mentioned though, I am somewhat worried about the cave-in, and the cost of IPF is not low, being a B tech. Betwen IPF and TRU, considering the likelyhood of the enemy having grappling/knockdown/knockback techs, I think TRU is better, especially as it also works for Suyin.

Speaking of, DWV now cancelling one attack should at least mean neither Suyin nor Ling Qi should get oneshot.