Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Yes, that's a very helpful post with lots of insightful, well-reasoned points. I'm sure it will make resolving the current disagreement easier and isn't just taking shots at the other side now that it's too late to matter.
Must every post be a dissertation? Is reason the only form of insight and rhetoric? Is a joke inherently "taking shots?"

No, not really.
 
I find it funny that people base their decision on the Oathbreaker title, when Ling Qi's best friend is Bai Meizhen.
 
You're gonna have to explain that one champ.

Now if we were best friends with Sun Liling you might have a point.
Both the Sun and Bai view the other as being the aggressor in their conflict. The Bai viewpoint is that the Sun betrayed them by crossing the river against orders, and the Sun viewpoint is that the Bai betrayed all of their vassals by allowing the barbarians to exist and continue raiding as long as they had. The empire as a whole currently favors the Sun viewpoint.
 
Bai are known as backstabbing snakes. I'm sure they've broken their share of oaths while getting such reputation.
Eh, they're out of favour and people are jumping at the chance to feel superior. Don't think we have real evidence of backstabbing unless you count the existence of barbarians on their boarders which most boarder provinces have to deal with.
 
Bai are known as backstabbing snakes. I'm sure they've broken their share of oaths while getting such reputation.
I think that if you need to break an oath to backstab someone your technique isn't advanced enough, especially in a more fantastic setting where that shit probably has greater consequences. Also I'm not sure if the Bai have a reputation for backstabbing, it seems to me more like general hostility and isolationism. Could be wrong there though.
 
Eh, they're out of favour and people are jumping at the chance to feel superior. Don't think we have real evidence of backstabbing unless you count the existence of barbarians on their boarders which most boarder provinces have to deal with.

Exactly! People talk shit about Meizhen, something may even be true; but the vast majority of it is just a trash talk. Why do people assume it won't be the same with the Weilu prince?

What I meant is that I find funny that people think that "guy A calls guy B an oathbreaker in a fight, it obviously means that guy B is one"; and completely forget how Sun Liling calls Meizhen when they fight and how much of that is true.
 
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Nah, Meizhen isn't a nice person. She is, in fact, a very nasty one, and people are right to shit-talk her for her actions when provoked.

But treacherous isn't something that can be attributed to her. She doesn't need treachery when she can just crush you head on.
 
Exactly! People talk shit about Meizhen, something may even be true; but the vast majority of it is just a trash talk. Why do people assume it won't be the same with the Weilu prince?

What I meant is that I find funny that people think that "guy A calls guy B an oathbreaker in a fight, it obviously means that guy B is one"; and completely forget how Sun Liling calls Meizhen when they fight and how much of that is true.

People are crediting the tree more because it's a spirit and they tend to be fairly straightforward (unless deception/lying is in their nature, of course), as well as it complementing LQ's bad feeling and a vague suspicion amongst the thread (not liking being ordered as well as the the 'mad beast' remark). The red (i.e. Bloody) moon is also priming people to expect Oathbreaking to be involved somewhere.

I think the main reason people are frustrated with this vote is because it was pretty one-sided but the case for aiding the spirit is a series of circumstantial points of evidence that aren't individually decisive or compelling. In a more normal situation, I suspect the 'look around' option would be more popular but in the dream the stakes are lower so most people are fine with committing to an educated guess.
 
Bai are known as backstabbing snakes. I'm sure they've broken their share of oaths while getting such reputation.
Not quite. The Bais have the opposite problematic reputation, they hold grudges over offenses of any sort and WILL pursue the grudges to destruction. They are typicall xianxia in that any offense must be paid, no matter how long or how far it takes.
They literally keep up a grudge from the dawn of the Empire and are considering MAYBE suspending hostilities temporarily for mutual survival...if they don't have to do so directly. They're a snakepit of intrigue.
Thats not the people you'd find being called oathbreakers.

Thats people you call unreasonable sons of bitches. Or Fae.
People are crediting the tree more because it's a spirit and they tend to be fairly straightforward (unless deception/lying is in their nature, of course), as well as it complementing LQ's bad feeling and a vague suspicion amongst the thread (not liking being ordered as well as the the 'mad beast' remark). The red (i.e. Bloody) moon is also priming people to expect Oathbreaking to be involved somewhere.

I think the main reason people are frustrated with this vote is because it was pretty one-sided but the case for aiding the spirit is a series of circumstantial points of evidence that aren't individually decisive or compelling. In a more normal situation, I suspect the 'look around' option would be more popular but in the dream the stakes are lower so most people are fine with committing to an educated guess.
Pretty much yeah.

Also in genre trees are supposed to be wise advisors and Young Masters(and any prince is one!) are supposed to be jerks! :p

Granted a dryad tried to eat our blood and our best friends are all Young Masters.
 
Flowers are a plan's sexual organs.
Adhoc vote count started by Ayashi on Dec 24, 2018 at 11:28 PM, finished with 443 posts and 122 votes.
 
Eh, they're out of favour and people are jumping at the chance to feel superior. Don't think we have real evidence of backstabbing unless you count the existence of barbarians on their boarders which most boarder provinces have to deal with.
From Meizhen's interlude, we learn that conventional Bai thought does not cultivate loyalty with non-Bai. They're perfectly happy to throw others under the bus when it's pragmatic to do so; sometimes cutting a tie generates more good than maintaining it. What's really super important to understand is that from the perspective of the Bai, this is not a betrayal. It's the classic "I can't betray you if I was never on your side". Non-Bai often view this behaviour differently.

Also, the Bai are kind of hypocrites because they take offense and hold grudges for less, but that's true of everyone to some degree.

People are crediting the tree more because it's a spirit and they tend to be fairly straightforward (unless deception/lying is in their nature, of course), as well as it complementing LQ's bad feeling and a vague suspicion amongst the thread (not liking being ordered as well as the the 'mad beast' remark). The red (i.e. Bloody) moon is also priming people to expect Oathbreaking to be involved somewhere.

I think the main reason people are frustrated with this vote is because it was pretty one-sided but the case for aiding the spirit is a series of circumstantial points of evidence that aren't individually decisive or compelling. In a more normal situation, I suspect the 'look around' option would be more popular but in the dream the stakes are lower so most people are fine with committing to an educated guess.
The trap that I think people are falling into is seeing two opposing viewpoints and assuming that one of them is necessarily duplicitous because they can't both be right. Only, they basically can. To wit, the fiery tree can be straightforward, honest, and wrong. Just the same as the prince can be superior, guilty, and justified.
 
I had the impression people were voting to pick a side because it's been way too long since our last event and we wanted to hop into the story already. So... YOLO?
 
Yeah, I may lean more towards the spirit (we dont have a need for anything wood metal related which the prince is), but both sides could equaly be right.


I am just morbidly curious as to the result if we picked the 'do nothing' path. I cannot think of many good things comming out of said choice.
 
Ling Qi: "look, when we're out there in the real world we'll be obliged to fight the spirits. Just this once though, I wanna try being on the spirit's side."
This does remind me though, that I think people are having very different views on what our obligations are, and I'd like @yrsillar to talk a bit about it, because Ling Qi should know that by now. For example, I believe that if were in GF and so a green human fighting a green tiger, we might be obligated to kill the human and aid the tiger, etc. This is why I made the comparison to CRX, because the guy is explicitely comparing himself to what CRX is, E.G 'prince of the province', with all the authority that entails.

I'd say that "It's better to err on the side of the human" is probably a 'cautious' approach (In fact, I believe that murdering the Ent and aiding the Prince is probably the most 'politically neutral' approach even if he wasn't a prince), but I don't know exactly if its a duty. It's a duty to defend mortals, and probably non nobles. However, when you see a green human fighting a green spirit, and both seems sapient? You are usually much less likely to be censured by murdering the spirit than murdering the human, but I suspect both cases can apply.

How does that work @yrsillar?
The trap that I think people are falling into is seeing two opposing viewpoints and assuming that one of them is necessarily duplicitous because they can't both be right. Only, they basically can. To wit, the fiery tree can be straightforward, honest, and wrong. Just the same as the prince can be superior, guilty, and justified.
I think you are giving the questers much too little credits.

I am pretty sure almost everyone is aware both of them can be right, but that a lot of people assume we need to make a decision now, even if that decision is flawed. A lot of the people who don't assume that are voting for the neither options.

There is also people like me who vote for the neither options because I consider it nice characterisation, even if I ALSO consider it the most insane and "Off with your head" option of the three.
 
I think you are giving the questers much too little credits.

I am pretty sure almost everyone is aware both of them can be right, but that a lot of people assume we need to make a decision now, even if that decision is flawed. A lot of the people who don't assume that are voting for the neither options.

There is also people like me who vote for the neither options because I consider it nice characterisation, even if I ALSO consider it the most insane and "Off with your head" option of the three.
Not all the posters doing it, obviously, but it's evident in some of the arguments that it's true for some to some degree.

Also, I'm intensely skeptical of the strength of any kind of obligation that would force random passers by into lethal commitment, when everyone who has ever actually spoken on the matter has advised not getting tangled up in things prematurely and described doing so as the single greatest risk to fresh Barons. I'm going to stick by my position that deliberately insinuating oneself into a situation in terms that carry more direct and final consequences for parties involved does, in fact, constitute the choice stronger in the warned-against entanglement.

I'd have to dispense with the fiction anything means anything otherwise, and it's a lie I'm most fond of. Not to mention invested.
 
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Turn 2: Arc 1-2
Ling Qi's thoughts raced. Neither of these people were real, that much was obvious. That meant that the factors she might normally consider were less important. What mattered more here was what she wanted from the dream...Well, she couldn't be sure of that, the brooding moon overhead made her wonder if this might be some kind of test. In which case, what would the bloody moon be looking for?

She couldn't even really be sure of that much, and it was frustrating, she could only use what was in front of her. Her first instinct was just to retreat, and seek some context but… that didn't feel right. Hadn't she learned the need to be decisive? So, what did her instincts say?

Ling Qi couldn't quite put her finger on it, but something about the prince set her on edge. There was a certain desperation and anger in the prince's demeanor. Perhaps it was the fact that, going by his swift movements, there was no way that he was being held here against his will. He obviously wanted this fight, or he would have escaped. Even that wasn't really enough to side against him though, it wasn't as if she wasn't aware of the stubborn pride some cultivators could have.

It was enough to make her hesitate though, and in that moment of hesitation, she saw the prince's back as he spun to avoid a swing of the tree spirits fist. There embroidered upon the back of his robe was an image she recognized from the history books, the yin and yang symbol, with sun and moon replacing the dots, the sigil of the Weilu clan. However, it was defaced, the stitching depicting the moon hurriedly torn out, and stitched over with some archaic character that she couldn't read.

Well, she thought, glancing up at the sullen red crescent in the sky, that made things a little easier. Even if this wasn't really about the bloody moon, she couldn't be expected to side against her patron, right? She sank into the shadow of the tree she perched on a moment later, there was only one way to signal Shen Hu without sacrificing the advantage of her stealth.

Becoming a shadow always felt strange, the sense of formlessness and dislocation combining with her senses fading to a sharp monochrome had been disorienting at first, but she was well used to the technique now. Of course, she only thought of it at all to distract herself

Despite knowing that this was essentially a historical play told through illusion, she couldn't help but feel uneasy at her plan to attack another person for real… Well, surely he would be sensible enough to retreat once it became clear he was outnumbered. There was no way someone of such apparent high status would lack an escape talisman after all.

Yes, Ling Qi thought as she sank into the twirling prince's shadow, no more substantial than a wraith. They would drive him off, and then she could interrogate the tree spirit and find out what was going on. To that end, she would have to do enough damage to spook him though. Gathering her qi, Ling Qi felt the chill of a frozen winter spread through her insubstantial form.

A chill wind blew, and a circle of frost spread from the shadow where Ling Qi hid. The young man's eyes widened a fraction, but it was too late. The frozen notes of the Hoarfrost Caress rang out as Ling Qi resolved back into her physical form, flute raised. The icy qi crashed down over him. In an instant the horned prince was sheathed viridian light, qi like the mark of millenial tree absorbing the baleful frost of her art before shattering into gleaming shards of dissolving light.

He spun in a blur, the head of his spear blazing like a comet, and struck. Ling Qi had only a fraction of an instant before the point struck her dead in the center of the chest with a muffled boom of displaced air…

Only to skitter harmlessly to the side with a shriek like a thousand axe blades digging into the core of an ancient tree. The prince's eyes widened, first in confusion, and then in building outrage, but, as Ling Qi began to ghost backward, light steps carrying her back out of range of his spear, a fist the size of his torso slammed into his side and sent him flying to crash with a thunderous crack against one of the massive trees that lined the clearing.

To his credit, the prince landed on his feet as he fell from the crater in the ancient bark, the right side of his robe wet with blood where the thorny spikes on the tree spirits fist had dug into his side. "Miserable assassin," he whispered in a furious hiss. "Did your Elders pluck that art from the corpses of my brothers?"

Ling Qi hesitated for a second at the look in his eyes, even as she let the chill of her Grinning Crescent Dancer technique spread through her meridians. Even knowing that this was false, the mix of pain and hate in his gaze brought her up short. Luckily, his attention was forced from her as the trees let out a ground shaking bellow, and the ground where he stood was engulfed in a gout of dull red, ashy flames.

"You!" The prince cried as he bounded from the branch he had leapt to, in order to avoid the flames. Lanhua's approaching heavy stride approaching made it clear, who he was speaking to "A change, hold the assassin…"

Whatever he was going to say next as a volley of jagged black crystals tore through his robe and drew flares green qi where they sliced across skin. The prince crashed to the ground heavily, driven back by the barrage, once again thrown off balance. "...Why?!" he shouted, even as he rolled to the side to avoid the spearing roots that rose from beneath his feet.

But Ling Qi was already waiting for him, growing ill feeling or not they were committed now. She faded back into shadow, flickering back into existence behind the prince, leaving him encircled by the three of them, and the fires burning nearby flickered and died as the she played the her song once again, forcing the prince to expend the power of his own Deepwood Vitality, just as the roaring tree spirit closed once again to melee range.

Shen Hu joined the assault a moment later, diamond claws flashing as he charged forward from a rapidly dissolving Lanhua, who was sinking into the earth beneath their feet, which had already begun to ripple and grow muddy and wet. The prince parried his attacks with unearthly speed, the whole of his spear aglow and leaving afterimages in the air in its wake as he was driven back by pounding fist and flashing claw. Even against two opponents though, he wasn't helpless, with skill that Ling Qi suspected Sun Liling would envy, spinning parries became strikes that hit with the force of a heavenly bolt, ripping wide furrows in the tree spirits bark and sending up clouds of ashen sawdust. The wounds wept boiling sap and more than once Ling Qi had to avoid their spray as she danced around the perimeter of the battle, striking with cold and frost wherever there was an opening.

Why wasn't he escaping? She thought with frustration, restraining herself from unleashing her mist, she didn't want to trap him. Even now, he struck out against the tree almost exclusively, despite the venomous glances she caught thrown her way when the tides of battle allowed their eyes to meet.

As the battle dragged on past its first minute, and into the second, and the ground beneath their feet turned into a slurry of sucking mud, slowing the prince still further and forcing him further into the defensive, Ling Qi began considering doing it anyway. Using Hoarfrost caress so many times was a drain on her reserves.

However, as she considered changing melodies, she felt something far on the edge of her senses approaching at an unhurried pace. It was a presence that had a terrible weight too it, a thing of baying hounds and bloodied silver spears, borne under the moon. It was strange though, for all that the qi she felt was incredibly potent, comparable to Zeqing at least…. It felt strongly reduced, as if the greater part of it were missing somehow.

It was obvious that the others felt it too. The tree spirit let out a booming guffaw of delight, and the prince went pale, under the ash now streaking his face. "No…"

"Ho, not ready to face the King and face the fate of traitors, Oathbreaker?" The burning tree gloated.

"That murderer is no king," the prince hissed, slamming the butt of his spear into Shen Hu's chest and driving her companion back a few meters, splattering mud in every direction as he skidded back. Beneath his feet a patch of burning brambles erupted from the fertile mud, and his blurring spear carved them to pieces. She saw him tense, wind qi gathering in his legs, and for a second their eyes met. She could have hit him then, perhaps interrupted his technique…. But she did not. A windstorm erupted and Ling QI shielded her eyes as the gale that burst forth extinguished fires for a hundred meters around and drove them all back.

When she next opened her eyes, the prince was gone.

"Hrmph, so he fled, pointless," the tree rumbled, before turning his attention to them. "That was foolish," he said. "But Vengeance-of-Burning-Grove thanks you nonetheless." The tree seemed unbothered by the massive sap weeping wounds scouring its limbs and torso as it turned to face them.

Shen Hu gave her a sidelong look, indicating that he had questions for her, but he bowed respectfully to the tree spirit. "I'm just a humble guard your lordship," he said glibly. "Just following Miss Ling's lead."

Her eye twitched, that was true but also kind of unfair wasn't it? She pasted on a smile as the tree turned to her with a look of thoughtful examination. "I had been on a journey through the southern mountains, and returned to find this. Sir Vengeance, I could not aid one who would deface his clans sigil so. Please tell me what is happening?" Lying on the spot like this was a skill she had grown rusty in, unneeded as it had been for most of the last year, and yet thankfully the tree seemed to believe her.

She needed him to, since Sixiang's voice was a muffled buzz, it sounded like they were arguing with someone. Also, that presence… the patriarch, it was still approaching though at a strangely slow speed, as if its source was merely on a casual stroll.

"There is no need to honor this old husk," the tree rumbled. "Vengeance-of-Burning-Grove was born only days ago, and shall be gone before the next cycle of the moon. The traitors sought to destroy these woods, and deny them to their foes. Mine only purpose is to ensure that they pay for that."

Ling Qi shared a look with Shen Hu, as the faint sound of baying hounds reached her ears. "What exactly caused their betrayal?" She asked delicately.

"Human matters," the tree rumbled. "The traitor sought to break old ties, and with the old patriarchs death, his meddling is no longer tolerated. Too long have we suffered for the Oathbreakers gain, so this could not have come sooner. They refused to kneel, and so the King will bring them to heel."

"Right," Ling Qi replied uncomfortably, that seemed simple enough, but…

"You may wish to get hence, little shadow," Vengeance-of-Burning Grove, said, not unkindly. "Aided me you have, but to meet the King of the Forest under the light of the red moon is a dangerous thing."


"Thank you for your kind advice," Ling Qi replied looking to Shen Hu and gesturing for him to follow her, they retreated a fair distance, and the tree spirit turned away, looking toward the source of the unsettling aura.

"Why were you holding back?" Shen Hu asked bluntly, once they were out of easy earshot, a thought kicked up the wind in such a way that their voices would not carry far.

"...I was second guessing myself," Ling Qi admitted, "I sided with the tree because I saw the defaced sigil, and figured we should side against traitors, right?"

"Sounds right," Shen Hu agreed.

"It's just… I don't know when we are, so I don't know who is right? Maybe the traitors win and we're actually still fighting the people we should be siding with," she didn't voice her more emotive concerns, but going by the uneasy look Shen Hu gave to the north, where the 'King's' continued approach was snuffing out flames in a widening circle of inky darkness, she didn't need too.

"...This's confusing," Shen Hu said, glancing down as the mud at his feet began to bubble. "It's just a dream right? Like those illusion formations the Elders use for tests."

"Yeah," Ling Qi said. "Problem is, we don't know what the test wants

Shen Hu was silent for a moment. "I don't know if you were wrong, and I don't know how to figure it out. Maybe its like you said, and we have it backwards. "But… I think there's something we can do to keep it simple."

"Oh? What's that?" Ling Qi asked curiously.

"We see if there's any settlements around," Shen Hu replied firmly, gesturing to the battle torn forest. "All of this, if there are people around they gotta be scared out of their minds. And besides anyone attacking civilians is obviously the bad guys, right?"

"...and if there aren't?" Ling Qi asked, dubious. "No one lives here in the future."

He frowned. "Then I guess we ask the King guy what he wants us to do, we sided with him already by helping the tree."

Ling Qi sighed, they did have pretty limited options, dropping her screen of wind, she called out to the tree spirit. "Vengeance-of-Burning-Grove! Are there any human settlements nearby?"

Creaking and crackling the tree spirit turned to look at her. "South of here there is a stream, follow it and you will find a nest." He replied.

She glanced at Shen Hu, who shrugged. "You know where I'm going then. "Guys like me don't have any business with this high up stuff."



[] Stay here and meet the King, hopefully he can make the situation more clear
[] Go with Shen Hu, sometimes the unambiguous route is the best one.

AN: XP will be given at event end, please don't bug out about it yet
 
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