Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Re: Contribution points. I think it is important to keep in mind roughly how much a single CP is worth. We can get 1-4 CP with a single action, which means that a week of actions is worth ~10CP, maybe a tad more. Hopefully that provides a sense of scale. If someone challenges us for 10CP, this means that a single action spent gathering information on them is only worth it if it increases our odds of victory by 20%, at least if you disregard the consequences of losing in terms of ranking.


On a related note: challenging someone and losing is rather punishing - it means that any effort you put into the challenge goes to naught, and you lose the CP you bet besides. On the other hand, being challenged and losing is basically harmless. The ONLY effect of the loss is that the challenger get slotted in at your current rank. That is exactly as bad for you as someone below you challenging someone above you, and in most cases it just means you slide down a single rank. Hell, if you've succeeded in your own challenge that month, it literally has no impact on your ranking. Though that's not to say that it isn't worth struggling, because while a defeat doesn't cost you much, a victory gets you the challenger's CP.
 
Yes, the existence of an information trade benefits that approach. I'm not sure what you're getting at by downplaying the existence of an information trade in the same breath tho.
The context of my original post was someone saying hiding capabilities is hopeless and we shouldn't bother because everyone will know exactly what we use in challenges anyway.
 
Last edited:
So I'd like to raise a question for the thread at large that I think needs debating.

For our third spirit, how do we feel about binding Hanyi? Our alternative there is Heizui (spelling?), the water dragon we cowed into submission.

I'm not sure how long we'll be bound to Sixiang for - I seem to remember the contract being contingent on her being willing to stay bound - but it means our spirit team for the inner sect competition could be Zhengui/Hanyi , Zhengui/Sixiang, Zhengui/Heizui or if we have an option to bind 3 later on then our team would be Zhengui and two of Hanyi/Heizui/Sixiang.
 
Last edited:
Hanyi is worse than useless for our time remaining in the sect. A 2nd realm spirit isn't worth the qi cost to bind when we've already got Zhengui and Sixiang. Hanyi wouldn't really be able to do anything among the Green 2-4s I expect to be involved in the inter-sect challenge.
 
Hanyi is worse than useless for our time remaining in the sect. A 2nd realm spirit isn't worth the qi cost to bind when we've already got Zhengui and Sixiang. Hanyi wouldn't really be able to do anything among the Green 2-4s I expect to be involved in the inter-sect challenge.
Hanyi would however give a bonus to Water! (and Dark, but who cares).

More seriously, Yeah Hanyi will take a while to become useful for combat if we do bind her, and I don't want Yrsillar to just power level her to make her relevant. It's more than likely that even if she is bound in the next few month, she isn't going to be past Green 2 by the tournament and so can could only play a very minor role. Hell, Arguably she'll be a mid green when we actually are preparing to breakthrough to Cyan.

However, there is a use for a spirit even if they are not combat competitive with us, so even in the worst scenario of Hanyi never being combat competitive with us (and I think she will be when she.... gets to Cyan lol) I think she will be helpful for other things.
 
With regards to challenges I wonder if it might be worth challenging rank 824 really early.
That isn't far off our current ranking (only 6 points). If we won it would take us up into the next tier of rewards from the sect

I don't think losing would be too terrible and if we lost we could at least gain valuable information about the general strength level of people in that bracket.

On another, related, note I wonder if the last person in a bracket might be slightly stronger than the people a rank or two above them due to everyone challenging for the rank breakpoint.
 
Hanyi would however give a bonus to Water! (and Dark, but who cares).

More seriously, Yeah Hanyi will take a while to become useful for combat if we do bind her, and I don't want Yrsillar to just power level her to make her relevant. It's more than likely that even if she is bound in the next few month, she isn't going to be past Green 2 by the tournament and so can could only play a very minor role. Hell, Arguably she'll be a mid green when we actually are preparing to breakthrough to Cyan.

However, there is a use for a spirit even if they are not combat competitive with us, so even in the worst scenario of Hanyi never being combat competitive with us (and I think she will be when she.... gets to Cyan lol) I think she will be helpful for other things.

IDK. Zhengui is about to get to green, and in about half the time it took us.


Seems to me that spirits maturing fast is expected. Will Hanyi mature fast enough to stand with us in the tournament?. I doubt it, but I dont think it will take to cyan for her to become relevant.
 
Not sure spirits and spirit beasts mature the same, honestly. Plus, Zhengui's from higher tier stock to start with. I do think it'd be a long time before she 'catches up' to Ling Qi, but a lot of that is just cause Ling Qi grows so darn quickly.
 
Hanyi is worse than useless for our time remaining in the sect. A 2nd realm spirit isn't worth the qi cost to bind when we've already got Zhengui and Sixiang. Hanyi wouldn't really be able to do anything among the Green 2-4s I expect to be involved in the inter-sect challenge.
More seriously, Yeah Hanyi will take a while to become useful for combat if we do bind her, and I don't want Yrsillar to just power level her to make her relevant. It's more than likely that even if she is bound in the next few month, she isn't going to be past Green 2 by the tournament and so can could only play a very minor role. Hell, Arguably she'll be a mid green when we actually are preparing to breakthrough to Cyan.

I very much disagree with the implication that unless a spirit or individual isn't at a certain rank in Green they won't be able to do anything meaningful in the intersect competition. I believe that as long as Hanyi reaches green she will be able to make meaningful contributions in combat, as well as outside of combat, especially with Cai Rexiang's offensive support buffs. Additionally, we know that once Hanyi leaves Zeqing, she will be able to grow beyond what she is now.

"I do not," Zeqing replied. "Yet… I know one day I will need let her go," Ling Qi flinched at the icy wind that cut through her defenses, chilling her to the bone the moment those words left the spirits mouth. "That is the human thing to do, is it not?"

Ling Qi shivered as the snow and ice slashed through the air around her, leaving only the mother and daughter spirits untouched. "...Maybe," she admitted. "Do you think that would help her?"

"She will not ever be more than she is, if she remains," Zeqing replied, her soft voice audible over the shrieking wind. "And that no longer seems as acceptable as it was. Did you know, that before I began teaching you, the thought of teaching my daughter never crossed my mind as more than an idle fancy, to pass the nights?"

Also, Hanyi is already receiving instruction from Zeqing on how to better use her innate talents for music, which means that even as a spirit she is going to be starting off at a higher point because of her practice and training. It seems like if Zeqing allows us to bind Hanyi, then Hanyi will grow beyond what she is, get stronger, and be of help in the Intersect competition. Assuming of course that Zeqing allows us to bind Hanyi in time for her to grow for the Intersect competition.
 
I'd agree with @Thor's Twin on Hanyi's usefulness. I'm guessing from everyone ignoring Heizui that he isn't a popular choice ahaha.

Hanyi I think would be an excellent fit for us - Water/Dark bonuses, which we definitely care about at least for Water and probably some kind of increase for our relevant stats for our Music arts.

I'll also pose the question of (assuming Sixiang doesn't leave us rendering the choice redundant) Hanyi or Sixiang?
 
Last edited:
I very much disagree with the implication that unless a spirit or individual isn't at a certain rank in Green they won't be able to do anything meaningful in the intersect competition. I believe that as long as Hanyi reaches green she will be able to make meaningful contributions in combat, as well as outside of combat, especially with Cai Rexiang's offensive support buffs. Additionally, we know that once Hanyi leaves Zeqing, she will be able to grow beyond what she is now.



Also, Hanyi is already receiving instruction from Zeqing on how to better use her innate talents for music, which means that even as a spirit she is going to be starting off at a higher point because of her practice and training. It seems like if Zeqing allows us to bind Hanyi, then Hanyi will grow beyond what she is, get stronger, and be of help in the Intersect competition. Assuming of course that Zeqing allows us to bind Hanyi in time for her to grow for the Intersect competition.
It's not really a question of whether there are contributions she could make. Obviously there are. The question is whether her contributions outweigh the drain on our resources. On that note, I am not convinced that hers would. We're kind of straddling the ling between Qi ranks, and Zhengui's gonna bite into that real soon.

That's beside the fact that it was only ever floated as a prospect for when we literally leave the sect. Zeqing doesn't appear to have an interest in half of a separation, and it's quite possible it wouldn't be sufficient for Hanyi to develop. Heck, could be dangerous. Zeqing's got commendable self-control, but giving away her kid and then having it hang around close by may be unpleasantly tempting.

I'd agree with @Thor's Twin on Hanyi's usefulness. I'm guessing from everyone ignoring Hiezui that he isn't a popular choice ahaha.

Hanyi I think would be an excellent fit for us - Water/Dark bonuses, which we definitely care about at least for Water and probably some kind of increase for our relevant stats for our Music arts.
No reason to believe that Qinggshe would permit us binding Heizui, and we basically dumped that social tie in the trash by neglecting him at the end of last year anyway. There were hopes from some corners that we'd be able to thank him for being the reluctant host after the tournament, but with how restrictive the Inner Sect's rules are, that seems firmly off the table.

Whatever opportunity Heizui represented, it's firmly a thing of the past.
 
No reason to believe that Qinggshe would permit us binding Heizui, and we basically dumped that social tie in the trash by neglecting him at the end of last year anyway. There were hopes from some corners that we'd be able to thank him for being the reluctant host after the tournament, but with how restrictive the Inner Sect's rules are, that seems firmly off the table.

Whatever opportunity Heizui represented, it's firmly a thing of the past.

Mostly it is hard to figure out a way to convince Hiezui to join us.

Both fair points. I hadn't considered the SL decaying factor nor getting access to his valley. Just a debate between Sixiang and Hanyi now then.
 
It's not really a question of whether there are contributions she could make. Obviously there are. The question is whether her contributions outweigh the drain on our resources. On that note, I am not convinced that hers would. We're kind of straddling the ling between Qi ranks, and Zhengui's gonna bite into that real soon.

That's beside the fact that it was only ever floated as a prospect for when we literally leave the sect. Zeqing doesn't appear to have an interest in half of a separation, and it's quite possible it wouldn't be sufficient for Hanyi to develop. Heck, could be dangerous. Zeqing's got commendable self-control, but giving away her kid and then having it hang around close by may be unpleasantly tempting.
I will agree that we might not even get the opportunity to bind Hanyi before we leave the sect. However, if that does occur then a discussion on whether Hanyi will be able to contribute for the intersect competition is moot.

As for the question regarding whether her contributions outweigh the drain on our resources, the answer, in my opinion, is that the drain will not be significant compared to her contributions. It's mentioned that we are already straddling the line regarding qi, but that will not be the case in the 19 months it takes to get to the intersect competition. EPC is already going to be giving us around 228 exp towards qi* and that is independent of any drugs, sites, and personal qi cultivation. That number may very well increase as we continue cultivating EPC. We will likely have a lot of qi and be quite comfortable in the A rank even with Zhengui's cost increasing and Hanyi's additional costs.

What I would expect from Hanyi should we bind her for the tournament (and she reaches green) is an offensive focused spirit that ambushes prey. She already had great mobility as a mid yellow and her training will most likely increase her ability to project her offensive traits. An offensive spirit is nice in that it complements Zhengui's more tanky mentality. Additionally, I believe the spirit bonuses would increase how fast we cultivate water and darkness arts (which is nice because of the time requirements we are under) as well as add bonuses to our offensive music.

*
Math: 19 months probably until intersect tournament with 3 d6 from EPC each month and an additional point for each dice from Argent Soul. 19 x 3 = 57 total dice. Average roll for a d6 +1 is 4. 57 x 4 = 228 exp.
 
Last edited:
If we assume no bottleneck at all, and assuming +1200 successes per levels, this would mean getting to Foundation (3) spiritual month 7 or so, Threshold (4) month 12 or so, Framing (5) Month 17 or so, Formation (6) month 25 or so. In practical terms, we will have probably at least 2 bottlenecks, and we will likely have down months. This tracks With Bao Qingling's own progress, and she had a year with lesser ressources (2 years in outer, 1 in inner, vs 1 in outer, 2 in inner). This also tracks with what we can expect of Meizhen/CRX/Sun Liling in 2 years. It is also highly likely that successes double, not be merely +1200. In that case, we'll need special things.
To comment on this though, I would point out that if we want to maintain our arts at a good level then we need to be spending at least half our cultivation time on them. That means that, somewhat crudely, whatever our base cultivation target is it needs to be theoretically achievable within a year.

(and yes, we do want our arts to be maintained at a good level. If nothing else we need to train them to get our domain up - which at our current speed will take what, about 5 months of art cultivation? Maybe a bit less?)

The flip side of your analysis, of course, is that if we cannot achieve a high level of resources then the idea that we can get anywhere close to Renxiang is laughable. Someone who can run 8 GSS/month cultivates more than twice as fast as us. There's no way to keep up with that.
 
Turn 1: Arc 1-2
Ling Qi carefully blotted the ink on the last string of characters describing the qi circulation exercises they were to practice before the next lecture. Elder Heng's form was already dissipating into mist, and the low buzz of conversation among the disciples was resuming, even among those nearby. It seemed that the reaction to her friends presence had been one of surprise for the most part.

"Ling Qi," Bai Meizhen spoke, catching her attention. "What are your plans for this week?"

Ling Qi blew on the drying ink one last time and looked up? "I'm… not sure? I will be cultivating at night and in the evenings, but I don't really have my days planned out yet. I was going to be discussing that with Lady Cai later, I think."

"I see," Meizhen replied, pursing her lips as she stood, her white gown shimmering like water under the pale light in the grotto. "Will you be visiting the town in the foothills at all?"

Ling Qi nodded, beginning to pack up her utensils and notes. "I'll want to visit my mother sometime, sure."

"Inform me when you intend to do so, and make plans for a further stay before or after then," Meizhen said crisply. "There is someone I should be introducing you to."

Ling Qi blinked, pausing in her clean up. Looking up at her friend, she felt a thread of concern. "...This isn't a marriage thing, right?"

She saw a flicker of horrified surprise in Bai Meizhen's eyes though it didn't touch of the rest of her expression. "No, of course not. It is only one of my lesser branch cousins. Certain things need to be made clear," she replied hurriedly.

Ling Qi let out a breath of relief. She had thought maybe something had been arranged for Meizhen, not what the other girl had thought of, but that was fine. She also knew Meizhen wouldn't get any more specific than that in public about a personal meeting. "I'll let you know tomorrow then," she said lightly.

Bai Meizhen gave her a small nod, and they parted ways as Ling Qi finished packing. Weaving through the crowd, Ling Qi soon caught up to Li Suyin in the paved plaza outside the grotto.

"Wait up Li Suyin," she called to catch the blue haired girl's attention.

"Ling Qi?" Li Suyin replied, sounding a little befuddled as she stopped and turned around. "Is there something wrong?"

Ling Qi felt a pang at that, did they not used to get together after almost every lesson? She supposed they had drifted apart a little in the second half of the year. "Nothing, nothing," she replied brightly falling into step beside the shorter girl. "I just thought it might be fun to catch up a little, and you could show me what you've been working on. I'm curious, you know?"

"Oh? I don't mind at all," Li Suyin replied with a smile. "We've both been so busy, so…"

"Right?" Ling Qi replied with relief. "Besides the horror project we haven't had much time to talk."

"It really was a fascinating project, wasn't it?" Li Suyin replied wistfully. "You know I've managed to repurpose the Scout formation a bit since then, I could show you if you would like."

"Sure," Ling Qi said as they took one of the paths leading up the mountain, filling the air with chatter about Li Suyin's work on developing the Ossuary formations away from their roots.

Like Ling Qi, Li Suyin ranked above Eight Hundred Fifty, and so she too had a single home set into the side of the mountain without immediate neighbors. Their homes were in fact completely identical in layout and design.

As Li Suyin lead her back toward the workshop, Ling Qi decided to fill the silence now that their previous discussion had reached a pause. "How did things go at the tournament anyway?" She asked obliquely.

For moment Li Suyin looked puzzled, pausing in front of the door to the workshop, but then understanding dawned. "...Father was distraught and angry at my injury," she replied with a sad smile. "Mother and I talked him down from attempting to file a legal suite against the girls involved… it would not help given our relative positions."

Ling Qi grimaced, she wasn't a legal expert at all, but that was obvious to her. Even if Imperial Law technically gave mortals the right to do that kind of thing, it was useless for even a wealthy mortal family to go against a noble clan without equally ranked backer. "They weren't too mad at you though?"

Li Suyin shook her head, turning back to open the workshop door. "Mother was put out with me deceiving them, but… she understood I think. We spoke of it."

Ling Qi nodded and didn't press further, anything else was private. She moved to follow Li Suyin into the workshop, only to pause on the threshold. The interior had already been much changed compared to her own home. Hammocks of spidersilk hung from the web coated ceiling, and even the walls had been buried under a layer of silken threads. On the unwebbed surfaces dozens of tiny rodent skeletons scurried about, small objects grasped in their bony jaws, while others stood completely still in neat rows around the rooms perimeter.

"You've really spruced the place up," Ling Qi said dryly, stepping carefully inside to avoid crushing the tiny assistants.

"It is all thanks to Zhenli," Li Suyin replied cheerfully. "Zhenli, I am back, and we have a guest!"

Ling Qi looked up at the sounding of chitin scraping against chitin. In the far left corner of the room, the webbing grew into a bulbous nest as large as a full grown man. From it, emerged her friends spirit. The last time they had met the spider had been small enough to fit in her palm. Now the arachnid was the size of a small cat, and pale pink chitin and the thick fuzz that grew from it shimmered with a rainbow of hues. Li Suyin's spirit beast was at the peak of the first realm now, as far as she could tell.

"Zhenli greets Sister Suyin," the spiders voice whispered in the back of Ling Qi's skull. Her jaws worked and her frontmost limbs wriggled warily as her attention turned to Ling Qi. "Zhenli greets the Ling Qi and the moonchild too."

"Don't pay me any mind,"
Sixiang said, seemingly awakened from the bored quasi-sleep they had sunk into during the lecture. "Grandmother doesn't stand on ceremony and neither do I. Just tell your kin to keep the good stuff coming for the next party!"

"Zhenli will pass message,"
the spider let out a high pitched physical chitter, turning her attention to a bemused looking Li Suyin, who was looking curiously at Ling Qi. "Does Sister need Zhenli for anything?"

"No, it's fine, you can return to your preparations. I wish you luck," Li Suyin replied, earning another chitter in response as the spider practically dove back into her nest. "Zhenli is going to be breaking through soon," she then said, answering Ling Qi's unasked question.

"You better watch out or she's going to surpass you," Ling Qi teased.

Li Suyin grimaced. "I have neglected my base cultivation recently, haven't I?" She lamented. "Well I intend to fix that soon. I cannot afford to idle away in second realm now that I have ended up here somehow."

"Somehow nothing," Ling Qi replied flatly, taking a seat on one of the benches, scattering the skeletal servitors in her wake. "You earned your place."

"Perhaps," Li Suyin replied with a self deprecating smile as she moved further into the room to examine a tray of familiar bone carved wands. "Who was Zhenli speaking too there, anyway?"

"Ah, I guess I've never introduced you," Ling Qi replied self consciously. "My second spirit, Sixiang, is a bodiless moon muse. Speak up, will you Sixiang?"

"Well, if I have permission," Sixiang huffed. "Hello there! Your little friends family produces some interesting stuff for mine is all."

"I see," Li Suyin said, still seeming unsure. "In any case, you were interested in my project, right Ling Qi?"

"Yeah, I'm not an expert, but a whole lot of people who were, seemed real interested in your work," Ling Qi replied.

Her friend hesitated for a moment, before opening a drawer and removing a small, glass covered case. Turning back to face her, Li Suyin brought it over to the table she was seated at. Inside the case were six tar black spheres each perhaps two centimeters across. "Su Ling and I discovered a cave several months back. The sinkhole in the forest seemed to have opened it up," she explained.

"Did it now?" Ling Qi asked with concern. "Wasn't that closed off by the Elders?"

"We did not go in until after it was opened again," Li Suyin reassured her. "In any case, the cave was more of a shaft leading straight down for some distance, but at the bottom, we discovered a cave inhabited by all sorts of strange creatures. We harvested a large number, but we did not explore far, the beasts grew stronger very quickly as went further down."

"Those are cores then?" Ling Qi asked, peering down at the black tar balls. Somehow they didn't seem like it.

"That's just it, they didn't react like cores at all," Li Suyin gushed. "They poisoned and ruined every mixture we tried to use them in."

"So what are they then?" Ling Qi said. "And how did you find a use for them?"

"Well, I had noticed that their… aroma resembled that of the impurities flushed out during a cultivation breakthrough," Li Suyin continued cheerfully. "As it turned out, that was the key, these cores are saturated with impurity, but it is possible to strain it out with certain processes. The remaining material acts like a magnet or a sponge afterward, drinking in impurities it comes into contact with."

That made a kind of sense, Ling Qi supposed. "What is the rest of the talisman for then?"

Li Suyin glanced to the side, rubbing her arm uncomfortably. "They control the forces inside the core. Without regulating formations and Zhenli's web acting to strain the impurities going in, contact with an empty core will rupture and poison flesh at and near the point of contact. It is very… messy."

Ling Qi grimaced, she got the picture. "Well that explains that. Have you told anyone else?"

"I had a conversation with Elder Su regarding my project," Li Suyin replied. "She said that the creation was incompatible with her way, but that it seemed safe to proceed. I have been given dispensation to keep the source and materials secret for a ten year period while I develop my work, after which the Sect will begin letting other disciples experiment. Of course, if they discover it on their own…"

"Good for you Li Suyin," it sounded like she was going to have a good foundation built before anyone else in the area could try horning in on her discovery. "Do you think you could get better materials further in?"

Li Suyin blinked. "I suppose, but…" she trailed off, and understanding lit in her eyes. "Would you?"

"I'm not sure when I'll have some time, but it sounds like an adventure," Ling Qi laughed. "Don't you think Sixiang?" Besides, she still felt a little uneasy about an open cave under that sinkhole.

"You could probably get a poem or two out of it, maybe a song," the spirit mused.

Li Suyin bowed her head. "Thank you very much. I still have to wait for my dispensation to process among other things, but I will look forward to your aid."

"None of that, Li Suyin. We're friends aren't we?" Ling Qi replied cheerfully.

Ling Qi remained with her friend for some time after that, their conversation turning to lesser projects, like Li Suyin's work on improving her silk guards. Soon enough though, it was time for Ling Qi to go, she had an appointment to keep with Cai Renxiang.

Although they had a number of things to talk about already Ling Qi wanted to get Cai Renxiang out of her work for at least a little bit. To that end she…

[] would suggest that they have a spar after their talk
[] Try to get her liege to show her some needlework basics
[] talk tea over a cup of the stuff, Cai Renxiang seemed to think it was important.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top