Respect Your Elders v2 - Galactic Boogaloo [Warhammer Lizardmen Quest]

Xantalos said:

And one thing that death gods are really helpful for is that they allow other gods to have afterlives for their devotees, thus increasing their powerbase even more.

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Could we set up an afterlife to help set the stage for sweet sweet Lizardmen not!daemons, and to make it easier to commune with Relic Priests? They have a ton of potentially useful info we can barely grasp at, if they're not constantly fighting to keep their souls bound to their bodies we might be able to get more of that information available.

Karugus said:

Could we set up an afterlife to help set the stage for sweet sweet Lizardmen not!daemons, and to make it easier to commune with Relic Priests? They have a ton of potentially useful info we can barely grasp at, if they're not constantly fighting to keep their souls bound to their bodies we might be able to get more of that information available.

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that's why we want to revive them, thus using the winds to remake their bodies and allow their souls to be reborn into flesh...if we can get the soul research for the lizardmen done, as well as the bodies we could get our relic priests back up and running.

And do you know who else of the first generation would be back up and running?

Hmm, I'm curious, what difficulties would the Spined Kroxigor and Earthblood, Skyblood, and Starblood Saurus sub-breeds rank @Xantalos ?

Oh make the death god's champions have the ability of Slaan starmasters from AoS. Summoning the ghosts of dead lizardmen who havent been given a new body as like daemons of azyr(?)

By the by. @Xantalos would a god of the dead be retroactive in the warp? As in would he hold souls of those who died from before he was technically made? The warp is weird with temporality like that IIRC.


Kinda upset cuz that was something i was planning for my fic but that thing isnt moving for a while.

[X] Plan Dispelling and Turtling

I'm going to sleep on it, but not getting forging districts this turn is a single extra city action. Extra slann and a hopefully good roll next turn is...a lot of research and/or a possible mind fog kill next turn. Pretty sure I may swap to Serpent and Slaan.

After some consideration, Xantalos clarifying that extra-stronk Fugue Demon isn't as bad as I thought, and a look at the vote tally, I'm going to abandon my plan and vote with

[X] Plan The Serpent and the Slann

A city without Forging Districts is just a single action more. With us having ten actions, the difference between five and four is negligible, as opposed to the difference that Sotek's involvement will make in giving us more Slann.

[X] Plan The Serpent and the Slann

[X] Plan The Serpent and the Slann

bioticgrunt said:

@Xantalos what could you tell about gods with these domains such as how would they act and how their powers effect the lizardmen.

• Life, water, and protection
• War, victory, and courage
• Fate, stars, and order
• Magic, knowledge, and wisdom
• Darkness, cunning, and hunting

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*cracks knuckles* Alright, let's tango with this question. Forewarning, I'm likely to ramble.

The god classification ... system thing I made for this game does things a little weirdly, so I figure I should explain it here for the benefit of future examples - I'll evaluate your examples outside of its parameters because they don't quite work in it, this is just for posterity and my own attentiveness or whatever. So first there's a god's ... we'll call it Category, what type of god they are. Sotek is a war god, Zeus is a god of the heavens, Grungni is a god of the earth. It might not describe their exact preoccupation, but it classifies what general sort of activities they generally participate in, the general tone of their blessings, etc. This level is all the Chaos Gods possess, they're too big for the nuance of the following things.

Next is ... I suppose Purview is a good word? Basically what they do inside their Category, how exactly do they conduct war or interact with the earth or whatever. What do they do with their general category. Sotek has the Purview of Bloodshed, which means that his form of warfare is very orientated around, well, shedding blood, being super aggressive, doing berserk rages and stuff. This level often determines what their blessings do, if not necessarily the form in which they do it in. Sotek's blessings thus give the blessed the ability to shed more blood in battle by becoming tougher in it, but the actual aesthetics and such are up to the third level of detail.

Third and last is Domain, which is basically the idea that's closest to the god in question's core concept. Sotek is Serpents because he's the serpent god of war, that's just his thing. Ulric is wolves, Sigmar is ... well, he cheats by using himself as his Domain, but if you discount that then he's Hammers or something, etc etc. This is where all of Sotek's venom aesthetics in his blessings come from, the snakes from the Ark of Sotek, all that kind of stuff. Basically whatever the identity of the god is. Sotek is a giant snake, Asuryan is king of the Eldar gods, etc. It's what they are, and what they most commonly appear as in the Warp/imagery of them/etc.

So, with all that out of the way, short blurb on each of them ideas. I'll try to order their keywords into Category-Purview-Domain, but it might not work for all of them.
- Life, protection, water - picturing something like one of those frogs that carries its young in its back. Blessings probably centered around protecting lizardmen from harm or healing them when they're wounded, through means of water - holy water that heals wounds, burns daemons, etc.
- War, victory, courage - Like Sotek, but less focused on killing all the things and moreso on really striving to win battles no matter the cost. Blessings would probably go around buffing/healing troops, both to keep them in the fight and allow them to fight harder so as to win quicker. Lizardmen don't really have morale issues as such so the courage domain would probably just translate to increased combat prowess or something.
- Fate, order, stars - Very slann-like god. Take @ganonso's Kroak from his age of Sigmar quest and you've basically got a god like that. Blessings are probably visions of the future or something, or portents read in the stars that are scarily accurate.
- Magic, knowledge, wisdom - two purviews there, but that's alright, it's pretty obvious what intent that comes with. Again, very slann-like, but in a different aspect compared to the Fate god. This one is basically every/any True Neutral D&D-alike god of magic you can think of - blessings are basically spells the god gives to its clerics, and the various sorts of generic holy smitings and such if big enough ceremonies are mustered.
- Darkness, hunting, cunning - This one actually works really well as a set of words because it easily describes the god/dess when you read them. It's a god of the dark that hunts in a cunning way. Best example I can think of is another of @ganonso's creations, Itzamatul from his AoS quest, who is Kroak's god-daughter and shadow assassin. Blessings would probably take shape around helping the faithful be sneaky and assassiny and stuff. Supernatural stealth, being able to call darkness on yourself, etc.

Karugus said:

Could we set up an afterlife to help set the stage for sweet sweet Lizardmen not!daemons, and to make it easier to commune with Relic Priests? They have a ton of potentially useful info we can barely grasp at, if they're not constantly fighting to keep their souls bound to their bodies we might be able to get more of that information available.

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Having a generalized afterlife (which will be a godly research project you have to conduct before it becomes a thing) will be a component in doing pseudo-daemonic shit with lizardmen souls, and will probably make communing with Relic Priests a little easier. However, it isn't a path to reviving them, since by and large slann aren't affected by your god stuff. They are the masters of the arcane, and they hold no faith in the supposed divine whos creation they most likely masterminded in the first place.

EVA-Saiyajin said:

Hmm, I'm curious, what difficulties would the Spined Kroxigor and Earthblood, Skyblood, and Starblood Saurus sub-breeds rank @Xantalos ?

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Earthblood would be a fairly high-tier Very Hard, and Spined Kroxigors would be Absurd. The others aren't possible at the moment since they deal more with soul manipulation than body alterations. You'll need to complete that one research that deals with figuring that out - Basic Soul Structure Manipulation - to be able to do Skybloods, and then the subsequent advanced soul manipulation project gated behind that one to be able to do Starbloods. This is primarily because these particular breeds are marvelously, gloriously OP.

The ability to create whole new breeds like the Cue is unlocked after Basic Soul Manipulation, though I'll be sharply limiting the number of those things that I allow to be made, probably down to just one or two total. The amount of sub-breeds I'll let be created is a little more complicated - basically there'll only be 3 sub-breeds per lizardmen type allowed to be actively spawning, but you can create more types than that and swap out the ones that actually spawn every X turns, and slann can always spawn whatever type you want. This is primarily because it makes sense with the capabilities I've established, but also because it lets you guys eventually swap out Temple Guard out with something else and still keep that slot open, since every slann knows the spawning spell and can just manually spawn their own bodyguard for themselves.

soulcake said:

By the by. @Xantalos would a god of the dead be retroactive in the warp? As in would he hold souls of those who died from before he was technically made? The warp is weird with temporality like that IIRC.

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Nope, that's (in this game at least) pretty much only a property of the Chaos Gods - part of what makes racial/people/non-chaos gods distinct from the Ruinous Powers is that they're stories compared to the single words of Khorne or whoever, and stories have to have a beginning point.
Also they don't horribly fuck up the Warp just by existing like the chaos gods do, which is kind of an important distinction.

Xantalos said:

- Fate, order, stars - Very slann-like god. Take @ganonso's Kroak from his age of Sigmar quest and you've basically got a god like that. Blessings are probably visions of the future or something, or portents read in the stars that are scarily accurate.

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Crib from Spire: The City Must Fall and get an orrery thats more accurate than the real stars

THE RETRO-ASTROLOGISTS OF THE OBSIDIAN ORRERY - Spire Core page 141 said:

With the cultural inclination of the aelfir to believe their own work superior to the natural world, coupled with a cocktail of sacrifices and narcotic-fuelled visions, the sect came to realise – in their own way – that their map was more accurate than the real thing, and therefore could be modified and tweaked to create futures that better suited them.
Unsettlingly, it works. The mechanical stars work just as well as the "real" ones far above, as far as the sect's predictions are concerned, and they can be nudged into more favourable configurations.
...
Stars will shift into and out of alignment, planets can be forcibly put into retrograde, and new constellations will blossom into focus. Cults waiting for the stars to be right can wait hundreds of years – or they can get together enough silver to enter the Necropolis and bargain with the keepers of the Orrery for a beneficial night sky tomorrow.

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If other races start to worship such Gods will they also get their protection? Will nature snx domain of such Gods change if other races start to worship them?

Can pre-Heresy Emperor consider as God? If so what is his domain/preview?

[X] Plan The Serpent and the Slann

SouvikKundu said:

If other races start to worship such Gods will they also get their protection? Will nature snx domain of such Gods change if other races start to worship them?

Can pre-Heresy Emperor consider as God? If so what is his domain/preview?

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First question: Yep, that's a thing that can happen, and might be one of the primary draws to living under your reign supposing you end up allowing such things. The domains of the gods shifting could theoretically happen, but that depends on how much of said god's worshipers are made up of lizardmen or other races, and how inclusive that god's clergy is to non-lizardmen, since the whole thing about interpretations of gods changing generally comes from those who interpret and pass on their stories changing, which the lizardmen ... well, they don't die, so they don't have to replace their pope every so often. You'll have a fair amount of control over how much change you're willing to allow in your gods, and be able to reel it back pretty quickly if you start seeing unsavoury aspects popping up in their domains or whatever. They're primarily big impressive, expensive warp weapons to you guys after all, can't have them going awry.

Second question: HERESY AGAINST THE IMPERIAL TRUTH He certainly discouraged that kind of talk in canon, so it's hard to say what kind of figure he'd be viewed as by his various secret cults. If I had to extrapolate what Lorgar viewed him as pre-Monarchia and subsequent corruption, however, something similar to the mainstream conception of God/Allah/Jehovah today, only more ... personified since he was actually walking around and whatnot. If I had to guess at the category-purview-domain he was ascribed in the Lectitio Divinictatus, probably something like Humanity-Protector/Father-Emperor, or something along those lines. Very much emphasizing his role as the unquestioned, rightful ruler of humanity, its protector and father, if not necessarily originator. Something along those lines. Whether he was actually a god, under the mainstream accepted version of his backstory, where he's the product of all of humanity's prehistory shamans doing simultaneous suicide to reincarnate as one super-psyker, I wouldn't actually say so - the closest analogue to something like that I can think of is the Eldar Phoneix Lords, which fulfil the same conceit of 'multiple souls squashed together into one identity, combining all of their powers by doing so'. But whether he and them were the same sort of being is a different debate entirely.

If humans or Eldars start to worship Sotak will there be some sort of physical and spiritual changes imposed upon their body and soul?

What is the current date? Is Men of Iron war already over?

Xantalos said:

*cracks knuckles* Alright, let's tango with this question. Forewarning, I'm likely to ramble.

The god classification ... system thing I made for this game does things a little weirdly, so I figure I should explain it here for the benefit of future examples - I'll evaluate your examples outside of its parameters because they don't quite work in it, this is just for posterity and my own attentiveness or whatever. So first there's a god's ... we'll call it Category, what type of god they are. Sotek is a war god, Zeus is a god of the heavens, Grungni is a god of the earth. It might not describe their exact preoccupation, but it classifies what general sort of activities they generally participate in, the general tone of their blessings, etc. This level is all the Chaos Gods possess, they're too big for the nuance of the following things.

Next is ... I suppose Purview is a good word? Basically what they do inside their Category, how exactly do they conduct war or interact with the earth or whatever. What do they do with their general category. Sotek has the Purview of Bloodshed, which means that his form of warfare is very orientated around, well, shedding blood, being super aggressive, doing berserk rages and stuff. This level often determines what their blessings do, if not necessarily the form in which they do it in. Sotek's blessings thus give the blessed the ability to shed more blood in battle by becoming tougher in it, but the actual aesthetics and such are up to the third level of detail.

Third and last is Domain, which is basically the idea that's closest to the god in question's core concept. Sotek is Serpents because he's the serpent god of war, that's just his thing. Ulric is wolves, Sigmar is ... well, he cheats by using himself as his Domain, but if you discount that then he's Hammers or something, etc etc. This is where all of Sotek's venom aesthetics in his blessings come from, the snakes from the Ark of Sotek, all that kind of stuff. Basically whatever the identity of the god is. Sotek is a giant snake, Asuryan is king of the Eldar gods, etc. It's what they are, and what they most commonly appear as in the Warp/imagery of them/etc.

So, with all that out of the way, short blurb on each of them ideas. I'll try to order their keywords into Category-Purview-Domain, but it might not work for all of them.
- Life, protection, water - picturing something like one of those frogs that carries its young in its back. Blessings probably centered around protecting lizardmen from harm or healing them when they're wounded, through means of water - holy water that heals wounds, burns daemons, etc.
- War, victory, courage - Like Sotek, but less focused on killing all the things and moreso on really striving to win battles no matter the cost. Blessings would probably go around buffing/healing troops, both to keep them in the fight and allow them to fight harder so as to win quicker. Lizardmen don't really have morale issues as such so the courage domain would probably just translate to increased combat prowess or something.
- Fate, order, stars - Very slann-like god. Take @ganonso's Kroak from his age of Sigmar quest and you've basically got a god like that. Blessings are probably visions of the future or something, or portents read in the stars that are scarily accurate.
- Magic, knowledge, wisdom - two purviews there, but that's alright, it's pretty obvious what intent that comes with. Again, very slann-like, but in a different aspect compared to the Fate god. This one is basically every/any True Neutral D&D-alike god of magic you can think of - blessings are basically spells the god gives to its clerics, and the various sorts of generic holy smitings and such if big enough ceremonies are mustered.
- Darkness, hunting, cunning - This one actually works really well as a set of words because it easily describes the god/dess when you read them. It's a god of the dark that hunts in a cunning way. Best example I can think of is another of @ganonso's creations, Itzamatul from his AoS quest, who is Kroak's god-daughter and shadow assassin. Blessings would probably take shape around helping the faithful be sneaky and assassiny and stuff. Supernatural stealth, being able to call darkness on yourself, etc.


Having a generalized afterlife (which will be a godly research project you have to conduct before it becomes a thing) will be a component in doing pseudo-daemonic shit with lizardmen souls, and will probably make communing with Relic Priests a little easier. However, it isn't a path to reviving them, since by and large slann aren't affected by your god stuff. They are the masters of the arcane, and they hold no faith in the supposed divine whos creation they most likely masterminded in the first place.


Earthblood would be a fairly high-tier Very Hard, and Spined Kroxigors would be Absurd. The others aren't possible at the moment since they deal more with soul manipulation than body alterations. You'll need to complete that one research that deals with figuring that out - Basic Soul Structure Manipulation - to be able to do Skybloods, and then the subsequent advanced soul manipulation project gated behind that one to be able to do Starbloods. This is primarily because these particular breeds are marvelously, gloriously OP.

The ability to create whole new breeds like the Cue is unlocked after Basic Soul Manipulation, though I'll be sharply limiting the number of those things that I allow to be made, probably down to just one or two total. The amount of sub-breeds I'll let be created is a little more complicated - basically there'll only be 3 sub-breeds per lizardmen type allowed to be actively spawning, but you can create more types than that and swap out the ones that actually spawn every X turns, and slann can always spawn whatever type you want. This is primarily because it makes sense with the capabilities I've established, but also because it lets you guys eventually swap out Temple Guard out with something else and still keep that slot open, since every slann knows the spawning spell and can just manually spawn their own bodyguard for themselves.


Nope, that's (in this game at least) pretty much only a property of the Chaos Gods - part of what makes racial/people/non-chaos gods distinct from the Ruinous Powers is that they're stories compared to the single words of Khorne or whoever, and stories have to have a beginning point.
Also they don't horribly fuck up the Warp just by existing like the chaos gods do, which is kind of an important distinction.

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Could you put this in Informational?

Question!

In honor of the Vampire Coast expansion that just came out for Total War: Warhammer 2, did the Deliverance heal Luthor Harkon's fractured mind?

And is he now one of the major powers of Lustria?

Xantalos said:

Whether he was actually a god, under the mainstream accepted version of his backstory, where he's the product of all of humanity's prehistory shamans doing simultaneous suicide to reincarnate as one super-psyker, I wouldn't actually say so - the closest analogue to something like that I can think of is the Eldar Phoneix Lords, which fulfil the same conceit of 'multiple souls squashed together into one identity, combining all of their powers by doing so'.

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"By your Powers combined, I am... Captain Imperium!"

DocMatoi said:

"By your Powers combined, I am... Captain Imperium!"

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Maybe Emperor able create a God of Atheism with Toadmans help?

All hail the man-emperor of mankind. His manness shines on us all.

SouvikKundu said:

What is the current date? Is Men of Iron war already over?

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We don't know.

@Xantalos

What would change about the war god if I switched courage with either fire or strategy if the latter is considered a domain.

@Xantalos

What about a God of harmony, balance and order? Will it be more harmful towards chaos?