With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

[Mr. Mica]

Thank you, corrected.

Huh. I did not know that. I didn't even know that you folks didn't use the Euro until I wrote that section.

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Eh. We are not all that enthusiastic about the European Union. What with how it started out as a financial partnership, became a trader union, and now is trying to be a federate nation much like the U S of A.
Needless to say, the whole oncoming creeper plant feels ominous to most.

Edit: But this is not the thread for politics. I enjoy your work, and I feel warm inside that someone actually remembered that Denmark is a Nordic country and not the capital of the Netherlands.

 

[Senevri]

What, were you just looking through your big file of women superheroes and picking out the hot ones for your friends?"

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Her hair's puffing up again. "What did you tell him about her? Did you.. coach him on how to seduce her?"

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"I knew there was something creepy about that guy!" She takes a step backwards, away from me and in their general direction. I'm going right over there-!"

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I bet he's using his power ring to just watch her the whole time.

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Uh... Red Ranger, I mean, Lantern get? Not sure if she's really that good a pick, as she seems to be prone to paranoia and, sort of, shoot first - or rather, accuse first - mentality.

...Would it rather be red rager?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Uh... Red Ranger, I mean, Lantern get? Not sure if she's really that good a pick, as she seems to be prone to paranoia and, sort of, shoot first - or rather, accuse first - mentality.

...Would it rather be red rager?

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The SI was right when he said that her personality is quite a lot like Guy's. The difference is, the SI has never been on the receiving end of Guy. He and Guy are friends and colleagues. If the SI ever started being seriously involved with Jade there's a reasonable chance that he'd treat her in a similar way.

 

[Angelform]

He's spent more time with the Terror Twins who were hostile supervillains than he currently has with Fire.
And then there's the former Royal Guard of Themyscira, who were actively contemptuous as well as hostile.
Or even most of the population of Themyscira, who were fairly hostile for the first couple days.

Nothing new for Paul.
At least Paul actually gave her reason for hostility.

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Different circumstances.
The Terror Twins are an active problem he is trying to fix. If he just walks away then he, or someone else, is going to need to deal with them again in a few years. And again a few years after that.
Whereas with this git he can just walk away with no negative consequences.

The former Royal Guard he is literally under orders to help.

It's like she has an Obsession with antagonizing Lanterns.

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I don't recall Obsession being all that rude or offensive. Paul defused the whole thing with a sentence before she even got started.

 

[seonor]

If that's not the impression Zoat wanted to leave on the audience he wouldn't have only shown those scenes.

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But their meeting is probably not over yet and since one of his best friends is dating one of her best friends they will probably meet again (either of- or onscreen), which will reveal further information.

Zoat is telling the story from the perspective of the SI (which also means that any information we get is coloured by the preconceptions and biases of the SI), there is no omniscient narrator who gives the readers correct and sufficient information on the characters in the story as soon as they appear in the story.

 

[Jackercracks]

She knows Paul gave Guy a how to woo Tora book, Tora being the princes of a particular offshoot of magic wielding humans that has been isolated from Human Culture/Contact for most of her life.

Tora is WORSE than village girl with no knowledge of the real world, so off course Bea is going to be pissed off if she thinks Guy is trying to take advantage of her, and by default will also be pissed off with the guy that set everything off.

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Which is why her behaviour makes sense, but that doesn't make it acceptable in polite society, or reasonable, or even a good way to get what she wants.

Do you know what I cannot stand? People who decide to believe things that they want to be true based on incomplete information, and then when the chance to round out that information comes up they ignore it. When new information comes to light that should make them re-assess the situation, they ignore it. When facts try to get in the way of getting a good old hate boner going, they ignore them.

Instead of simply asking about the situation, or taking a moment to think about what it means to be possessed by a demon and maybe re-assess things she bulldozes on ahead blindly, acting childish, aggressive and rude to someone who in return is being unflinchingly polite. She is acting - in short - like a bitch. At the same time she displays an inclination to use romantic relationships to get what she wants. The instant it seems that Paul has a measure of power over getting into the justice league she's hanging off his arm and laying on the brazillian accent; the superpowered version of a gold digger.

And Paul - like a champ - sucks it up to be a proper wingman for his good friend Guy, even going so far as to offer to help this girl out from the goodness of his heart and what I assume is his desire to improve the world by strengthening superheroes in general.

 

[shepsquared]

I still don't get why people expect the characters to be perfectly rational all the time.

Guess what - the person with fire powers has a fiery temper and a valid reason. Go figure

 

[bigreader]

He's spent more time with the Terror Twins who were hostile supervillains than he currently has with Fire.
And then there's the former Royal Guard of Themyscira, who were actively contemptuous as well as hostile.
Or even most of the population of Themyscira, who were fairly hostile for the first couple days.

Nothing new for Paul.
At least Paul actually gave her reason for hostility.

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Yes but he wasn't trying to date any of them at the time. Different situation with different expectations.

 

[Jackercracks]

I still don't get why people expect the characters to be perfectly rational all the time.

Guess what - the person with fire powers has a fiery temper and a valid reason. Go figure

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I don't expect her to be rational, it makes perfect sense that she wouldn't be. That's not the same thing as liking or agreeing with her.

 

[Raikor]

Yeah, how dare this woman get angry at the SI instead of imidiately falling for him?
And how dare she be angry over completely legitimate concerns about things that the SI can do and actually has done! And she's concerned about her career too! How dare she try to take advantage of every scrap she can take in a field dominated by American men!
She should be greatful that Paul gave her prospective by informing her that her position is currently firmly on the long list of potentiel Justice league canidates. She should be happy that she was told her place, and that in no way should have left her severely dissapointed and annoyed.

Worst of all how come she's not just taking him at his word when he says that there is nothing to worry about? Everyone should instantly trust Paul just because he says so despite all evidence to the contrary (evidence such as Guy's previous attitude, own capability, Paul's previous actions, Paul's actaul admission of handing over a dating guide to Gardner, etc).

And Paul, how dare you meekly try to muddle through and not piss off this woman whose concerns you completely understand and feel a reasonable degree of remorse/guilt over? You shouldn't have to worry about smoothing things over with your Bro's Girlfriend's friend! It's not like the entire reason your here is to appease her so that your friend can have a pleasent date, like a good wingman.
I can't believe you're letting her have this power over you by not immediately establishing dominance instead of meekly challenging her assertions in a reasonable way to give context and shine your friend in a favorable light.

Dude, bro. You're just as bad as that emotionally scarred teenager being asked to fight to the death by his emotionally distant/borderline abusive father, who refuses to pilot, with no training, the robot which transfers all pain to him against a monster that's already killed thousands at least.

 

[Silverias]

snip

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It's...quite clear you don't understand their point at all.

She is being unlikable. Her attitude is annoying.

Is it in character? Yes. Is it narratively fitting? Yes.

Is it possible that watching the protagonist of a story we enjoy being berated by someone with incomplete information mildly irksome anyway? Yes.

 

[finbikkifin]

Is it possible that watching the protagonist of a story we enjoy being berated by someone with incomplete information mildly irksome anyway? Yes.

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I don't know about you, but I enjoy seeing the SI enjoy many varieties of suffering, not just combat and martial difficulties but everything from dense harem antics and bureaucratic bullshit to Truggs and bad dates.

Frustration is a nice change of pace.

 

[Raikor]

It's...quite clear you don't understand their point at all.

She is being unlikable. Her attitude is annoying.

Is it in character? Yes. Is it narratively fitting? Yes.

Is it possible that watching the protagonist of a story we enjoy being berated by someone with incomplete information mildly irksome anyway? Yes.

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You appear to have missed the point as well. I'm accusing them of being sexist.
Hence the use of my wording "put in her place" "power over him" and "dude bro".

The point is that Paul is reasonable like this towards everyone and all the complaints against this woman seem to be related to the fact that she is a career oriented woman, who is angry, and not immediately accepting Paul at his, male, word.

 

[Syn0]

Paul is being a good wingman to his (best?) friend. If he puffs up in indignation and leaves in a huff then Guy's date is over. Moreover he's trying to smooth things over between Guy's girlfriend's best friend and Guy - two people who will continue to interact if Guy pursues the relationship.

Something that good friends do with a polite smile no matter how abrassive the opposite is.

 

[daimahou]

in their general direction. I'm going right over there-!"

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direction. "I'm

 

[Juju_O]

I'm starting to tire of this woman.

 

[killfr3nzy]

I'm confused by people shrugging off Fire's bitchiness by saying she's a pyrokine. You might as well be going 'Oh, she's a redhead.'

...and? That's an excuse, not a reason; are you saying powers in Earth-16 going only to those that fit cliché tropes or that the power itself is causing psychological changes? Is Ice constantly fighting a battle within herself against her superpowered Ice Queen side?

The SI was right when he said that her personality is quite a lot like Guy's. The difference is, the SI has never been on the receiving end of Guy. He and Guy are friends and colleagues. If the SI ever started being seriously involved with Jade there's a reasonable chance that he'd treat her in a similar way.

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Except that Guy has the effort to better himself with things such as anger management and (I think) become a counsellor. I'd expect his over-protectiveness to manifest with less ranting and belittling, and not swerve in and out of how Jade could use her connections to help him.

 

[HogarthThree]

The former Royal Guard he is literally under orders to help.

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Say what? I thought the Queen was resigned to the situation, and the SI poked his nose into it of his own initiative.

 

[uju32]

I'm confused by people shrugging off Fire's bitchiness by saying she's a pyrokine. You might as well be going 'Oh, she's a redhead.'

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Because, in a world where we've seen that even the use of hypertech like power rings can alter the user's mental state?
The idea that the pyrokine's hot temper might have something to do with the origins of her powers is not a particularly far-fetched idea.

 

[Mr Zoat]

direction. "I'm

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Jack Stargazer]

You appear to have missed the point as well. I'm accusing them of being sexist.
Hence the use of my wording "put in her place" "power over him" and "dude bro".

The point is that Paul is reasonable like this towards everyone and all the complaints against this woman seem to be related to the fact that she is a career oriented woman, who is angry, and not immediately accepting Paul at his, male, word.

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I think very few people missed the 'point' you were trying to make. Personally, I tend to ignore ad-hominems in general, and I suspect many others do as a matter of course.

Fire has not made a positive impression. She was not trying to make a positive impression. In fact, I don't think we've seen this much red in someone's text since Bane was talking to his father.

I somehow doubt that the general opinion of how she has acted would change if she had a penis.

She seems to vacillate between extreme rage and self-serving conciliation at speeds that, if they were applied to a person without what is probably a magical/elemental influence on their personality, would be potential symptoms of a mental disorder. I'm surprised her talk about joining the league isn't in orange.

She clearly has a chip on her shoulder. She also clearly cares for Tora. She may be a little jealous of Tora, as Tora's ice powers seem both stronger and more versatile than Fire's own, and she seems to define herself by her powers. She may be channeling that jealously and that caring into this rage.

The thing is, we know Paul is not just a decent guy but an actual Hero with the capital letter. So when people see him being denigrated for things which were not his intention (and he knows always what he intends to the deepest level) or things which were out of his control, it is perfectly natural to act defensively.

Contrary to 'popular' belief, this does not indicate some deep-seated misogynistic hatred.

 

[uju32]

The former Royal Guard he is literally under orders to help.

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No he isn't.
Noone asked to go looking for the former Royal Guard; he did so on his own accord, and keeps doing so.

The Terror Twins are an active problem he is trying to fix.

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Which is none of his concern.
Affects his life in no particular way besides his altruism, and they're low powered(and dumb) enough to remain minor players.
While Fire, OTOH, is the best friend of a woman his friend and colleague(and current Ion wielder) is wooing, a name on his Justice League long list, and
stands a good chance of being at least peripherally involved involved in his affairs for a while to come.

Dude was entirely courteous and friendly to Dana Dearden despite owing her nothing after GBS fired her.
Being a good wingman for his friend would be well worth a little temporary aggravation for someone who is Enlightened.

Because seriously, we have people here up in arms that the woman who had perfectly legit reasons to be cross and suspicious with OL is being cross and suspicious with OL.
And yet they have no issues with OL associating with Jade, who while perfectly nice and reforming, is literally getting away with prior murders if the Renegade timeline is correct.
Or Lex Luthor, who would be legally culpable for the Roanoke Island Incident if his membership of the Light was ever revealed.

 

[killfr3nzy]

Because seriously, we have people here up in arms that the woman who had perfectly legit reasons to be cross and suspicious with OL is being cross and suspicious with OL.
And yet they have no issues with OL associating with Jade, who while perfectly nice and reforming, is literally getting away with prior murders if the Renegade timeline is correct.
Or Lex Luthor, who would be legally culpable for the Roanoke Island Incident if his membership of the Light was ever revealed.

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Don't conflate people who believe in one of those with people that believe in the others.

Unless you've actually checked that they're one and the same, your argument is baseless.

The idea that the pyrokine's hot temper might have something to do with the origins of her powers is not a particularly far-fetched idea.

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And if even one person had advanced the argument that it's because her power is known to come from X, and X is suggested to cause Y, then I might be swayed. Since the meta-aware OL hasn't, let-alone anyone else, I'm not seeing any actual reason to believe it.

 

[Rem]

I'm kinda scratching my head over how unsubtle Beatriz is. I mean, in the last chapter, she made it absolutely clear that she was only participating for the career advancement opportunity. Which is fine, I guess (Well, I disapprove and honestly find it a bit creepy/sexist, but whatever), but the ways she goes about it makes it absolutely clear to Paul that she's just using him.

And in this chapter? She flat out tells the alleged omnipotent pick up artist about her suspicions and how she's going to warn Tora about Guy, rather than, say, nodding, smiling, and discretely warning Tora somewhere the two Lanterns can't listen in on them without actually being creepers.

It's like she has no brain/mouth filter. Is...is she alright?

 

[uju32]

And if even one person had advanced the argument that it's because her power is known to come from X, and X is suggested to cause Y, then I might be swayed. Since the meta-aware OL hasn't, let-alone anyone else, I'm not seeing any actual reason to believe it.

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But we do know that some powers result in mental changes, and vice versa: OL is Patient Zero in this case, but Alan Scott's health waxing and waning with his willpower is also applicable.
And that the human metagene expression is often affected by both personal and environmental factors.
It is a reasonable Doylist assumption to make that Ms Da Costa's temper issues are related, especially since a part of her comic continuity specifically references temper and stress causing involuntary activation of her powers.