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that doesnt mean they would call for horrific physical mutilation. they would want that person executed (and more than likely punished in hell) not mutilated.
if this is their idea of fair punishment then maybe paul should stop associating with such brutal savages

If you had to chose between gelding, or spending the rest of your life in an american prison which would you choose? Why is gelding more barbaric than forcing somone to live out the rest of there life in prison? Keep in mind america has probably one of the most brutal prison systems of any first world country, and rapists are fairly low on the totem pole on the inside.
 
You are barking up the wrong tree. Let the punishment fit the crime was the thought du jour.
oh yes, eye for an eye, steal bread and have your hand chopped off that sort of thing. the amazons from an incredibly savage time and still think in those terms and if paul wants them to interact with the wider world he has to civilize them very very quickly. these people come from a time when if you didnt like someone then you just killed them.
Mr Rapist had a notebook, presumably of story ideas that OL disintegrated.

They are 3,000 years old. For people that old, "just" gelding him is mild and civilized.
thats exactly my point, humanity (for the most part, i know there are some parts of the world where things like this are still done) got rid of these notions for a very good reason.
 
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For raping one of their gods? Seems fair.
Rape is rape, a heinous and awful crime that degrades the victim and leaves lasting trauma, but let's not put the gods on some pedestal above mankind. Down that road lies the worst aspects of Greek mythology, in which callous disregard for human life features especially strongly. The justice system is more than capable of handling this matter without divine curses which inevitably result in massive collateral damage and blood feuds.
 
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oh yes, eye for an eye, steal bread and have your hand chopped off that sort of thing. the amazons from an incredibly savage time and still think in those terms and if paul wants them to interact with the wider world he has to civilize them very very quickly. these people come from a time when if you didnt like someone then you just killed them.

Can we you stop throwing around the word "Savage" in reference to people talking to an Englishman? Especially when you're referring to the Englishman as "civilized"? Its got some rather negative connotations.
 
22nd February
13:19 GMT +3


I reappear on the Senate building, almost exactly where I left. The debate has carried on without me, but it comes to a halt as they notice me. "Sorry about that."

Menalippe smiles indulgently down at me. "You show an impressive dedication to duty. Were you able to find our missing Muse?"

"Yes. She's… Diana's.. looking after her in the embassy at the moment."

"I do hope she didn't cause you too much trouble."

"That's not… I wouldn't, um…" My eyes drop to the floor for a moment. "The police will want a statement.. but under the circumstances I don't think they'll actually need her to testify."

Hippolyta's face hardens. "What happened?"

"It turns out... Muses can be... Compelled, to provide inspiration. Her original abductor has.. died, and her most recent… Her most recent captor is in police custody." I feel a slight impulse to apologise on behalf of all men. I know that not all rapists are men and not all victims are females, but by far the majority are. And of the women I'm looking at, any who weren't born on the island would most likely have been on the receiving end when Herakles overran the old city.

"What will happen to him now?"

"He will be detained until a trial can be convened… Given Diana's interest I imagine it will be held sooner rather than later. There's no realistic prospect of him being acquitted… Under the California Penal Code rape is punishable by between three and eight years imprisonment per.. incident. Given the… Situation.. she was in, I don't imagine he'll ever be released."

She showed surprising resilience, actually. When we went into the.. dungeon, I made a point of keeping back, but Diana had me remove the collar and clean… Clean her, with the ring. She recognised Diana and she didn't.. shy away from me. I know from the thing with the League of Shadows that power ring scans are admissible as evidence, and no jury would listen to anyone questioning a sworn statement from Wonder Woman. The CSI people can make do with pictures of her cell. She even came to watch Mister Mudoc being taken into police custody, though she clearly wasn't in any state to speak to anyone.

Though that might have been because of the sheer number of people around. I got the exact level of attention that I wanted. It turns out that when someone affiliated with the Justice League requests police assistance they come in loaded for supervillain. I got to meet San Francisco's Special Response Team, a whole chunk of the city got cordoned off and there's no way anyone missed who was being taken away. A few journalists followed the police, which also gave me the opportunity to explain why he was being arrested. Or, 'it is my understanding that he will questioned regarding', but they spotted Diana leading Calliope away from his house. Doubt it'll make the morning papers but it will probably be… Are there still afternoon additions? And on their websites as soon as they can wake a journalist up to write the article.

This really isn't something I… No, it would have been terrible whenever it came to light, but I hope that Clyemne isn't going to try to-. "And what else?"

No, she is. "I'm sorry, but with Calliope free and the perpetrator arrested and being held awaiting trial, my.. involvement is over. If you are interested in how the American legal system works, I'm sure that Diana-."

"Princess Diana."

I pause for a moment. "I'm sorry. Of course. I'm sure that she would be happy to explain it to you."

"Imprisonment for the remainder of his life? Is that all?"

"Rapists tend to be extremely unpopular with other inmates, but that is the extent of the court-mandated punishment, yes."

"He will not be executed? Or gelded?"

"In the United States, some areas execute murderers, and I believe that treason can be punished by execution in some cases. Rapists are not executed. Removing body parts would be considered 'cruel and unusual' and thus prohibited by their constitution for any offence, regardless of the severity. I'm… Really not the best person to ask about this."

"How long was Calliope subject to assaults from these brutes?"

"The only one able to answer that question would be her, and I didn't think.. putting her to question immediately was the right course of action. But… Most likely, on and off for the entirety of her disappearance."

There's a collective intake of breath. Menalippe blinks as she tries to get her head around the idea. "There are people who would dare to treat a goddess such?"

"There is no deed so foul that someone somewhere won't commit it. And we're going to try to avoid telling people that she is a Muse." Menalipps shakes her head in incomprehension. "If it became public knowledge that raping a Muse gives you supernatural inspiration, I'm concerned that other people-."

Clyemne jumps to her feet. "And this is the nation that you wish us to have further contact with? One where such men-."

"Are punished for the crimes they have committed. No one other than the two people who were holding her knew that she was there. I don't know how they got her into the country, but that will be investigated. She was held in either an isolated place, or in a cell designed to prevent sound from escaping. There are procedures for hunting for kidnap victims but no one knew to look for her. Once I did, she was free inside ten minutes. When information of what happened spreads, everyone who hears about what happened will condemn the perpetrators. What more do you want?"

Clyemne glances along the row of her fellow Senators and then back to me. "I want their names."

I blink and shake my head. "Okay... Erasmus Fry and-."

"No!" Menalippe is staring at Clyemne, her eyes wide. "Do not answer her!"

Clyemne glares right back. "It would only be just. Do you truly not believe that the gods would have an interest?"

"I'm sorry, I seem to be missing something?"

Menalippe keeps staring Clyemne down. "The senator wishes to call the Furies down upon them."

I squeeze my eyes shut. "Oh, no, don't do that."

"You see! This-!"

"Don't do something that would make me feel obliged to protect that bastard. I don't know what the exact right punishment for his crime is, I doubt there is one. But life imprisonment seems to be… At least not completely unreasonable."

Clyemne break eye contact with Menalippe to look down at me with distaste. "You would protect this man?"

"Yes. That's my job. There is no.. grave injustice, no colossal and overwhelming need which requires us to throw out every existing law of civil society! You don't get to call in arcane life forms to murder a man because you're unhappy with the sentence the courts pass!"

Hippolyta stands. "And you will not discuss committing murder against a foreign citizen in this chamber. You are overstepping your bounds, senator."

Clyemne's mouth tightens as she gets her anger under control. A moment passes before she nods in acquiescence. "I apologise, my Queen. My disgust got the better of me."

Queen Hippolyta nods, then turns to me. "Under the circumstances, I think a break in proceedings is appropriate. Paul, you have our thanks for liberating Calliope." I bow. "For better or worse, you have given us a great deal to think about. We will reconvene in one hour."
you are missing the threadmark.
 
Can we you stop throwing around the word "Savage" in reference to people talking to an Englishman? Especially when you're referring to the Englishman as "civilized"? Its got some rather negative connotations.
what words would you rather i use to show the appropriate disparity in societal advancement between mans world and the amazons
 
What are the Furies? I know they're the punishers of Hades, but I didn't think they answered to the Amazonian Senate...or is this just fanfic?

The Furies are sort of like the divine A-Team. If you feel someone's in need of some Vengeance and you can contact them, they may just go to bust their foot off in the guy's ass.

In terms of how powerful they are, I'm not really sure. I know they killed Dream, but IIRC they had to do that outside of the Dreaming.
 
Okay, couple of questions.

First and foremost, what is the amazon punishment for committing rape? And I mean an amazon committing it. Has an amazon just not done it? Would they be killed?

Second, are all of the myths of the Greek pantheon committing rape actually lies? Because that was an extremely volatile reaction from someone who, in all likelihood, might even worship a rapist.
 
what words would you rather i use to show the appropriate disparity in societal advancement between mans world and the amazons

I would like to point out, there were peopel calling for murder or mutilation in this very thread. Not to mention more or less unanimous agreement that the renegade would have simple executed him out of hand. Furthermore to infer that they are "a bunch of savages" due to a gut reaction of "castrate and/or kill!" upon finding out somone had reduced one of the more beloved and sacred creatures in there religion to a sex slave is going rather far. As I said before, peopel in this thread had damn near the same reaction.
 
Hey, Zoat, what does OL sound like again?

In my head he's something like a younger 10th Doctor.
But Delight would be the opposite of Despair.
Going by the ES, Fear is the opposite of Hope. Although, Despair isn't that far from Fear now that I think about it...
I dunno, blame Pandora.

If hope didn't exist until it poped out of the box, it would have cause a big shift across reality.
 
First and foremost, what is the amazon punishment for committing rape? And I mean an amazon committing it. Has an amazon just not done it? Would they be killed?
There hasn't beeen any rape on Themyscira for at least two thousand years.
Second, are all of the myths of the Greek pantheon committing rape actually lies? Because that was an extremely volatile reaction from someone who, in all likelihood, might even worship a rapist.
No, not all.
Hey, Zoat, what does OL sound like again?
A slightly more eloquent version of me.
 
Rape is rape, a heinous an awful crime that degrades the victim and leaves lasting trauma, but let's not put the gods on some pedestal above mankind. Down that road lies the worst aspects of Greek mythology, in which callous disregard for human life features especially strongly. The justice system is more than capable of handling this matter without divine curses which inevitably result in massive collateral damage and blood feuds.
The argument isn't "is rape bad". The argument is "is sending the Furies after someone that raped a god of your pantheon an extreme action", to which I say "Nope. Seems fair."

And it isn't like the Amazons are dictating that This Must Be Done. They're kicking the issue upstairs.

They can be killed, but they don't die naturally.
They're like lobsters, then? And like lobsters, taste great with butter.
 
What are the Furies? I know they're the punishers of Hades, but I didn't think they answered to the Amazonian Senate...or is this just fanfic?
Ancient goddesses of vengeance, older than the Olympian gods. And they punish people for committing transgressions because it's what they do, not just because they are ordered to. If that Amazon can just get a message to them, given the transgressions he committed that should be more than enough to call them down. There's a fairly distinct chance it'll happen anyway, given that Calliope is perfectly capable of doing so herself, now. That's what happened in canon.
 
Extradition to Themyscira for trial still sounds like a fine idea to me.

non viable, the crime did not take place within there borders, and the victim was not legally a citizen. That's before politics get involved, the US is not going to give up one of its citizens for execution without a damn good reason, doing so would make them appear weak and set a disadvantageous precedent.
 
Everyone is getting so worked up about it, and I know that's what happens when you see it happen or known it to happen to someone you know or the characters know. Please don't forget that it is, statistically, happening to someone right now. Probably about 10 at least right this very second, or is that too much...?

Mmm, Nah. Seems right.

Where's all that indignity and outrage for them? Anyway, let's move past this and work out how to stop it from continuing to happen.

Be proactive, not reactive yadda yadda yadda.

Or rather, Paul should. But it's a Orange Light thing to only really care about people you deem yours. Paul does have other things to be working on though, like advancing the world, so I guess that situations like this can wait unless it gets you into the good books of people he wants to impress. 'Cos I believe that's what happened here.

Edit: I mean, that's not all that happened here, but what if wasn't brought to his attention? And Paul doesn't have enough time to worry about people that don't relate to him personally or through the greater good such as society on a whole. Once he's shaped up humanity to his liking, then the rest will follow through naturally.
 
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Extradition to Themyscira for trial still sounds like a fine idea to me.

I'd agree in principle, except that that would be little more than a Kangaroo Court. While I agree that this guy should be preferably granted immortality before being launched into the sun, the job of a superhero is to do good and to not be cruel. If Paul tries to go around the courts like Grayven did, then the Amazons loose the moral high ground here in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Realistically, the amazons can't be like the ones in Ranma 1/2- having them say "Our laws trump everyone else's" in a world where nuclear weapons exist. The Amazons must realize that they're not the ones in control of everything; they have to learn to operate on the scale of the international community. That can mean not necessarilyi taking popular actions, such as letting a rapist stay in someone else's custody.
 
Paul:" For what its worth? You could probably request the US government to extradite him here. Diana has plenty of contacts that maybe able to speed things up."

Grayven: " You could also simply hire me to abduct him and bring him here."
 
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