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You're seriously going to argue that Joy and Humor are not "real" emotions? Or that they "don't motivate to action?" Anyone who's ever celebrated a happy occasion, or been moved to tell a hilarious (or hilariously awful) joke, would tell you otherwise.

And the relationship between the different Lanterns and their particular emotion varies from emotion to emotion...which is the horse and which is the cart, so to speak. While willpower is arguably not an emotion, it is an emotional STATE. Yellow lanterns do not grow more powerful from being more fearful, but from the fear they inspire in others. Likewise Blue lanterns grow more powerful with hope they inspire in others. And for rage, greed and love, their emotions are driven by their power as much if not more than their power is driven by their emotion.
And, to tiptoe over into fanon vs. canon, in "IWTSYS" teal lanterns are motivated not merely to be more joyful themselves but to spread that joy to others.
 
You're seriously going to argue that Joy and Humor are not "real" emotions? Or that they "don't motivate to action?" Anyone who's ever celebrated a happy occasion, or been moved to tell a hilarious (or hilariously awful) joke, would tell you otherwise.

And the relationship between the different Lanterns and their particular emotion varies from emotion to emotion...which is the horse and which is the cart, so to speak. While willpower is arguably not an emotion, it is an emotional STATE. Yellow lanterns do not grow more powerful from being more fearful, but from the fear they inspire in others. Likewise Blue lanterns grow more powerful with hope they inspire in others. And for rage, greed and love, their emotions are driven by their power as much if not more than their power is driven by their emotion.
And, to tiptoe over into fanon vs. canon, in "IWTSYS" teal lanterns are motivated not merely to be more joyful themselves but to spread that joy to others.
Two things: What does this have to do with With This Ring, specifically? You seem to be raging against the DC heavens, rather than something about the fic.

Secondly, why are you using a saccharine fanfiction as some sort of basis for your argument?
 
I was using another similarly themed fanfic for an example of someone expanding on the emotion/color/motivation concept. still, even without it, the canonical examples are still relevant to the point that the different lanterns/rings have different synergies with their related emotions--- ergo, even canonically they're not all just about "emotions that motivate."

And what does this have to do with this particular fanfic? Well, the whole story is about someone basically taking what was, on its face, the WORST and MOST USELESS Lantern color (I mean jeez... Larfleez. Nuff said) and literally squeezing enough nuance out of the concept of Avarice to make a heroic orange lantern actually feasible. (the phrase we're looking for here is "enlightened self-interest.") Of course, at some points the protagonist REALLY has to stretch the concept....

And the very point of introducing other colored lanterns in the first place was to examine the idea of Lanterns powered by things OTHER than "Will." To broaden the concept, give it a little more nuance and more potential for OTHER story ideas. So why NOT discuss the idea of the "emotional spectrum" being more complex than seven very generalized colors and seven oversimplified emotions?
 
With regards to Joy not being a color, I think happiness can easily fit into a number of other colors, to the point where it doesn't really make sense as its own color.

The joy of seeing your enemies crushed

The joy of getting what you want

The joy of terrifying others into submission

The joy of having stood tall, no matter what was thrown at you

The joy of certainty that the future will be better than today

The reflected joy of seeing others happy

The joy of mutual love and affection

Happiness can take a number of forms, and I'm not sure those forms are all equivalent.
 
Yellow lanterns do not grow more powerful from being more fearful, but from the fear they inspire in others. Likewise Blue lanterns grow more powerful with hope they inspire in others.
Yellow Lanterns do get stronger constructs if they feel more fear. Their unique ability is to also grow more powerful from the fear of others.

Blue Lanterns gain ring charge from the people near them being hopeful, but don't get stronger constructs.

I'm assuming that there is some limiting mechanism that makes it so a group of 20 Blue Lanterns can't recharge forever off the hope of the other Lanterns near them, giving them infinite ring power.
 
You're seriously going to argue that Joy and Humor are not "real" emotions? Or that they "don't motivate to action?" Anyone who's ever celebrated a happy occasion, or been moved to tell a hilarious (or hilariously awful) joke, would tell you otherwise.

And the relationship between the different Lanterns and their particular emotion varies from emotion to emotion...which is the horse and which is the cart, so to speak. While willpower is arguably not an emotion, it is an emotional STATE. Yellow lanterns do not grow more powerful from being more fearful, but from the fear they inspire in others. Likewise Blue lanterns grow more powerful with hope they inspire in others. And for rage, greed and love, their emotions are driven by their power as much if not more than their power is driven by their emotion.
And, to tiptoe over into fanon vs. canon, in "IWTSYS" teal lanterns are motivated not merely to be more joyful themselves but to spread that joy to others.
I don't think humor is an emotion. Amusement, sure, but not humor. Likewise, it's not so much will that's an emotion, but determination. And certainly amusement is an emotion, but is it a fundamental emotion? Not AS fundamental as the others, I don't think.

Being motivated to spread joy doesn't mean the joy is -- in and of itself -- the emotion driving its spread. Do you spread joy because it's good for people? That's compassion. Do you spread joy because you think that's what's necessary to make the world a better place? That's will. Do you spread joy because you like how it feels when you're happy? That's avarice.

Joy doesn't drive you to wage war against your enemies. Funny jokes aren't cause to take up arms. Sadness doesn't build nations. The emotional lights correspond to primordial drives, reasons that someone might put their life on the line. You might risk it all to avenge a wrong, or to take that which ought to be yours, or to drive off that which would hurt you, or because you feel that you must, or to fight for the future, or to protect those who suffer, or to defend those who matter most... but would you stick your neck out just to make someone laugh?

I'm assuming that there is some limiting mechanism that makes it so a group of 20 Blue Lanterns can't recharge forever off the hope of the other Lanterns near them, giving them infinite ring power.
A lack of 20 Blue Lanterns to get together in the first place? ;)
 
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You're seriously going to argue that Joy and Humor are not "real" emotions? Or that they "don't motivate to action?" Anyone who's ever celebrated a happy occasion, or been moved to tell a hilarious (or hilariously awful) joke, would tell you otherwise.

And the relationship between the different Lanterns and their particular emotion varies from emotion to emotion...which is the horse and which is the cart, so to speak. While willpower is arguably not an emotion, it is an emotional STATE. Yellow lanterns do not grow more powerful from being more fearful, but from the fear they inspire in others. Likewise Blue lanterns grow more powerful with hope they inspire in others. And for rage, greed and love, their emotions are driven by their power as much if not more than their power is driven by their emotion.
And, to tiptoe over into fanon vs. canon, in "IWTSYS" teal lanterns are motivated not merely to be more joyful themselves but to spread that joy to others.
As far as DC canon goes, they're emotions in the sense that magenta is a colour of light (which is to say, a psychological phenomenon that doesn't physically exist). Or something, who cares? The Flash runs really fast and doesn't catch fire from friction or make people explode when he punches them, why should real world colour theory/understanding of emotions matter?

Heck why should a random other fanfic matter in regards to a different fanfic?
 
I'm assuming that there is some limiting mechanism that makes it so a group of 20 Blue Lanterns can't recharge forever off the hope of the other Lanterns near them, giving them infinite ring power.

Maybe Zoat added one, canonically, no, blue power rings are perpetual motion engines if the blue lantern is doing their job right.

Saint Walker and a cohort rejuvenated a sun, and were 100% charged from the hope of the inhabitants of a planet they didn't even bother going to in that solar system, one of the first feats of the blue lanterns.

In Green Lantern/Star Trek, no power batteries made the trip, so the plan for them to keep charge without batteries was the blue lantern hoping them all charge.

When post flashpoint it was revealed that blue lantern power rings have all the standard abilities plus their special tricks, well they were all quickly killed off because that would make the various lantern corps the awesome blue lanterns and the schmucks who got the shitty power rings.
 
Yes. And so he'd be on the 'appreciates brevity' side and so using needlessly time-consuming words like 'any' would would be a poor fit for consistent character behavior.

Did you read my post?
It's literally a phrase people use. It's not something people ruthlessly optimise their language towards in order to seem extremely cool and hardcore.
 
Grind (part 22)
4th November
09:21 GMT -5


Batman nods. "And the statue?"

"Since.. I couldn't prove that it was stolen property, I returned it to Mister Hatch. He was sarcastically grateful." From his expression, I think that Batman is well aware of Mr Hatch's business practices. "On that subject, sir, if you wish to pursue Mister Hatch, I would be perfectly happy to sub in for you in Gotham while you carried out a comprehensive investigation."

"That's irrelevant at present. Do you believe that the monk you encountered was behind the thefts?"

I shake my head. "Now I know who to look for I can start going through CCTV records, but I rather doubt it. I don't know whether she was the source or if her 'master' was making personal visits… Heck, since we still don't really know what the black stuff I was seeing was, I don't know whether or not it's something all members of the Order of the Stone can induce."

"Where did you first hear about the Order?"

And this is why it's important to take the time to cover yourself in advance of talking to the World's Greatest Detective. Especially if you're known to have a perfect memory. "They were mentioned in the League of Shadows' database, and again in various police reports passed to the Justice League. The same with some parts of their philosophy. I have a.. particular interest in alternate moral systems." I sigh. "Unfortunately, theirs is rather stupid."

"Purpose equals failure."

"It doesn't mean anything to me. I mean, on one level, yes, if you're not trying to do anything then you can't fail to achieve it. I'm just not sure why she said it to me like that."

"Was anyone else close enough to hear when she did?"

"Mister Wilson, but otherwise no. The Question was still in the building opposite and Alan hadn't arrived yet."

Batman bows his head slightly. "How reliable is the Question?"

"He's been working in Hub City for years. He's had appreciable success against the city's criminals, and has a number of scars which would have come from life threatening injuries. Empathic vision shows that he's genuinely committed."

"And his allegedly magical abilities?"

I shrug. "Plausible. It didn't make my rune stone glow, but since he's claiming to be using a form of psychometry that's not too surprising. It's something Nanda Parbat could probably teach someone who knew nothing about magic within the available timeframe. You'd need to have an actual magician speak to him to draw a firm conclusion."

He nods, then turns and walks away from the table to look down through the armoured glass into the examination area where Dr Balewa is studying the woman's corpse. I fall in just behind him. Mr Wilson was examined first of course, but they couldn't find any trace of whatever it was which caused the black light I saw. Dr Balewa was able to confirm that a part of Hub City has been gutted of arcane energies, but… He could also list several entities that could have done it and couldn't come up with any idea why they would have felt the need to.

Doctor Balewa is currently painting lines on the woman's naked corpse. Something to aid him in measuring particular flavours of arcane energy, I assume. It looks a little like what I've got-.

"Would the person who made Blue Lantern's ring be prepared to make any more?"

"I don't know. I'd imagine that he'd charge quite a lot, and I don't have another candidate."

"Hope isn't that rare."

"You're welcome to ask him. I'd.. suggest having Lantern Stewart and I have a crack at the next one. Or myself and Zatanna. I still don't know exactly what it was that finally broke its hold."

Below us, Dr Balewa raises his hands, closes his eyes and starts chanting.

"You would recognise it if you saw it again."

"Yes. I'd never seen anything quite like it. Even in those.. few people who have appreciable amounts of black in them anyway."

"We don't know how many there are or where they are. We don't know if there's an upper limit on the number there can be. We have no way to stop it, and we can only undo it by having Lanterns present before the suicide effect takes place."

Dr Balewa frowns as he concentrates.

"The other statues?"

"There were no traces of magic on them, or any exotic phenomena we could detect. They've been returned to their owners."

"Geh." The tips of Dr Balewa's fingers smoke and smoulder as he staggers away from the examination table!

Batman leans forward and presses the intercom. "Doctor Mist, report!"

Dr Balewa angrily shakes his hands, the smoke dispersing. "A minor side effect, Batman. I am afraid that I must confirm the Question's assessment. The woman's body is completely devoid of arcane influences. I cannot feel any part of her soul, or her life."

"Was her soul stolen or destroyed?"

"No." Below us, his body… Simplifies, colours merging and textures smoothing-. He vanishes, then reappears in the room with us. Batman and I turn to face him. "The magic involved in such a thing would leave its own mark, both upon her and upon her surroundings. There is nothing. It is not merely her soul that is missing, but every other arcane influence which I should be able to feel."

"Was her soul..? Nullified? Or have they just wiped her body clean?"

"If I am to seek out her soul in the hereafter, I will need more information on the practices of her Order."

"They regard morality and restraint as weakness, and learn to channel their desire for vice into a drive to act. I don't know what they believe as far as afterlives are concerned."

"What spirits do they worship?"

"A re-imagining of the biblical figure of Cain. Instead of being punished by Jehovah and leaving to found the first city, he wanders around the ancient world, steadily learning more and more about how to empower himself and control others with their cardinal vices: deceit, greed, lust and murder. I've no idea what they think happens to their souls. I don't even know if they believe in souls."

"Are they a large Order?"

"The League of Shadows didn't think so. I don't know."

"Doctor Mist." We both look at Batman, who is looking thoughtful. "Could the arcane presence you are looking for be hidden in a way that would make it impossible for you to find it?"

"No." He considers for a moment. "There are ways in which they could blur specific details, but that there was something there? No."

"How can you be certain? There are other ancient magicians-."

"And they are all younger than me, but that is beside the point." He looks at me for a moment, then gives a slight nod. "In… My early life, before…" He looks at his robes. "Before this. I had been a minor magician for a long time, and I wished to… I had been born a slave, and though I had risen far I still wished to know if there was more to life than I had experienced. So, I passed my authority on to my eldest son, set a great wooden pillar at the most powerful geomantic site known to me and sat upon it. I meditated, my spirit drifting free from my body, for… I do not know how long. I… Saw so much, all of the magics of the Earth, peoples I had never seen in the flesh, lands I had never walked upon. And as my body died… Just for a moment-". He smiles at the memory. "-I saw something beautiful." He shakes his head. "Batman, I have seen life's purpose, and now it is my owen. That." He points to the window. "That is not life. That is…"

He shakes his head.

Ah. I can't say I'm entirely surprised.

"Anti-Life. It's Anti-Life."
 
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So Mist has White enlightenment?
Perhaps not enlightenment, but it seems he has at least managed to catch a glimpse of the white entity. Which actually does a lot to explain his views on the world. The White is... well it's a lot more positive than the black, but it's still not exactly what you would call good in the traditional sense. Because things like parasites are still a part of life.
 
If that were the case, the color would be in his quotation marks. He just had a White moment.
No. Zoat has said that in this story, the white light is very difficult to use. Doctor Mist would probably be able to use a white ring if one fell into his lap, but enlightenment is shown through colored quote marks.

It is in his quotes.

To check, I replied to this story post and then swapped it to BBCode.

Every single quote mark for Dr. Mist has the color=white bracket/closebracket for it.
 
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