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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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See, this is the sort of behavior that makes Constantine such an abrasive threat to those in the know. He says and talks and hints without ever actually tying himself down to something you'd be entitled to reacting to. And you can't really take the risk of being the instigator cause 'John' has already laid down enough magical tripwires that you are certain that you can't do anything without taking on what you can't see. Except where Constantine is an Ass, this John is... A polite dick. Not yet really offensive said or done, but not really someone you'd like for all his propriet.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"My first name is 'John', actually. But you'll excuse a magician for not wanted to give out his full name." He half turns, gesturing to the other five. "Now, why don't you.. join your friends. I'm sure they'd appreciate an extra pair of eyes. And I need a quick word in private with Orange Lantern."
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wanting

four
Mr Zoat said:
Two seat, a small table, a glass of milk and a tea set.
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seats
Mr Zoat said:
"John Constantine could probably futz around with the magics if the tower, given enough time.
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of
Mr Zoat said:
"Alright. The Justice League are doing a full cover up on what happened to Nabu, so…"

He nods. "Mum's the word. He's on holiday, or retired, or accepted a new posting."
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Guess this means that while League would be happy to recruit him they also have to get to know him a little first.

At least Nabu has an apparently more reasonable replacement and hopefully it really is the case.
 
Imagine if Golden Boy or whoever this is becomes OL's new go-to magic guy.

This is because Order and Chaos Lord Constantine was too OP to be brought back, isn't it?
 
See, I hope that Paul is smart enough to check the f*ck out of that story as soon as he can. Because a completely unknown magician that looks kinda like John, has John's name, and got Doctor Fate's helmet? That screams "evil doppelganger" or "BS".

Why? Because the helmet by itself is worthless. It might still be a link to the plane of Order, but for John to not be Lord of Order, he'd have to do soul surgery on himself, to sever his link to the Plane of Order, and transfer it to this new "John". And in that process, the helmet (if it was the helmet that remained the link, and not something of John's) would likely have been destroyed. Like Teeki was.

And if the transfer happened, where the f*ck is John Constantine? If he's still recuperating, why isn't he in the tower, being looked after by his friend to whom he gifted what amounts to godhood? Klarion could be in the tower no problem, so John could also use it with its master's help.

And why this guy? Why not Cornwall? Or Adom? And why didn't John contact Paul then, or leave some confirmation phrase with the guy, just in case? No, I'm not buying this, and I sure as hell hope that Paul doesn't buy this either.
 
Yog said:
See, I hope that Paul is smart enough to check the f*ck out of that story as soon as he can. Because a completely unknown magician that looks kinda like John, has John's name, and got Doctor Fate's helmet? That screams "evil doppelganger" or "BS".

Why? Because the helmet by itself is worthless. It might still be a link to the plane of Order, but for John to not be Lord of Order, he'd have to do soul surgery on himself, to sever his link to the Plane of Order, and transfer it to this new "John". And in that process, the helmet (if it was the helmet that remained the link, and not something of John's) would likely have been destroyed. Like Teeki was.

And if the transfer happened, where the f*ck is John Constantine? If he's still recuperating, why isn't he in the tower, being looked after by his friend to whom he gifted what amounts to godhood? Klarion could be in the tower no problem, so John could also use it with its master's help.

And why this guy? Why not Cornwall? Or Adom? And why didn't John contact Paul then, or leave some confirmation phrase with the guy, just in case? No, I'm not buying this, and I sure as hell hope that Paul doesn't buy this either.
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I fully expect Paul to get out of the tower and once he and the team are far enough away to avoid possible repercussions start emergency calling John Constantine on all frequencies to confirm the story.
 
Yog said:
See, I hope that Paul is smart enough to check the f*ck out of that story as soon as he can. Because a completely unknown magician that looks kinda like John, has John's name, and got Doctor Fate's helmet? That screams "evil doppelganger" or "BS".

Why? Because the helmet by itself is worthless. It might still be a link to the plane of Order, but for John to not be Lord of Order, he'd have to do soul surgery on himself, to sever his link to the Plane of Order, and transfer it to this new "John". And in that process, the helmet (if it was the helmet that remained the link, and not something of John's) would likely have been destroyed. Like Teeki was.

And if the transfer happened, where the f*ck is John Constantine? If he's still recuperating, why isn't he in the tower, being looked after by his friend to whom he gifted what amounts to godhood? Klarion could be in the tower no problem, so John could also use it with its master's help.

And why this guy? Why not Cornwall? Or Adom? And why didn't John contact Paul then, or leave some confirmation phrase with the guy, just in case? No, I'm not buying this, and I sure as hell hope that Paul doesn't buy this either.
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There's no reason to believe that John was ever a lord of order.

John was capable of becoming a lord of chaos by hijacking Klarion's connection because he took a second familiar after losing Teekl.

Nabu never did that, which means that John had no known way to hijack the connection.

What he did have was a helmet that contained a braindead lord of order that he could use as a power up, much like how Klarion wanted the helmet as a power up in YJ.

So there's no reason to believe soul surgery was necessary, just handing the helmet over.

I have a guess for who this might be, by the by.

British magician who looks like John Constantine and his first name is John? Wildstorm had its own Constantine clone- Jack Carter. Zoat has incorporated bits from Wildstorm before like the Albion characters
 
You know Paul really needs to get ahead and develop a magic system based off his power source of the avarice light source because if the magic is going to keep being his Lantern Kryptonite he needs to learn some magic that he can reliably use to counter it or at least scan if someone is telling him the truth or is actually an Eldredge Abomination pretending to be a human sorcerer pretending to be a lord of order. Also is anyone else concerned that John Constantine is now a freaking Lord of chaos without any balance of order to keep him on the relatively straight and narrow or at least from going completely power crazy and be going full chaos Lord?
 
Even if OL does suspect the new Fate to be evil he wouldn't try and antagonize / fight him in the Tower of Fate. Both he and his team would just get murdered instantly. The best thing to do would be to play dumb, get what you want and regroup ones you are in your scry proof mountin.
 
stsword said:
There's no reason to believe that John was ever a lord of order.
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From John:
A weak shake. "No. Not really." Why.. couldn't he just… I've hated him for eight months solid. Might be nice to be able to enjoy the idea… "You?"

John raises his left hand, an ankh of crackling red lightning appearing over his palm. "Strange. The chaos thing I could… Felt a bit like everything was exploding at a hundred miles an hour, but… I could get it. This is… I dunno what this is."

"Balance. You should be able to… To harmonise-."

He looks me straight in the eyes, glaring slightly. His eyes are bloodshot and red and gold lights dance in his irises. "Yeah, well it's a bit harder than that when you actually do it, alright. Feels like getting torn into a million pieces whenever…" He closes his eyes for a moment, his whole body sort of shimmering. "Dunno if I'll be able t' do it."

"Anything I can do?"

"Not unless you know where you can find a Lord of Chaos and a Lord of Order working together."

"Shazam and Oggar. It… It didn't last, but…"
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It is very clear that at that moment John had the same connection to Order as he had to Chaos.
 
Blazinghand said:
He's so amiable and reasonable, and his explanation makes so much sense, it's only making me more suspicious!
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Zoat has trained us well.

Krazyfan1 said:
Imagine if he's actually nice.
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It's a nice thought.

Queshire said:
Whelp, someone has to say it; Giggity.
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. . . very classy.

In all seriousness, I fully expect this to go south hard and fast. Mainly narrative reasons, but also because there is simply no such thing as a simple solution to problems involving someone like John Constantine. I'd honestly prefer to see him on the other side of the team, if only because I know that they'd end up worse of somehow.
 
Yog said:
From John:

It is very clear that at that moment John had the same connection to Order as he had to Chaos.
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And nowhere in that quote did he say he was a lord of order.

What was established was that he was having a tough time having a connection to order and chaos.

By possessing the Helmet of Fate, he had a connection to Order, because that's how the helmet works.

And lo and behold, he gets rid of it by getting rid of the helmet, according to guy who may or may not be a trustworthy source of information.

As if the connection to Order was in the helmet, as I pointed out it was.
 
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Yog said:
From John:

It is very clear that at that moment John had the same connection to Order as he had to Chaos.
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Rereading that makes me super hopeful we're going to see Paul actually talk to Shazam at some point without being super focused on him being right and the wizard being wrong. The changes to his backstory with Oggar are pretty interesting and Oggar has shown up in the background a few times.
 
Sceptic said:
Ah yes, ring scan. With the ring that was apparently recently subverted. Yep. Sounds like a plan that can be relied upon 100%.
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Of course not doing it here right here right now in his domain while sitting a meter away from him. And by scan, I meant something like hack into UK database and try to find the identity he claims to be to see if it existed.
 
Yog said:
From John:

It is very clear that at that moment John had the same connection to Order as he had to Chaos.
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Found a quote you seem to have missed

Mr Zoat said:
Wallace looks at me curiously. "Fate's dead, right? I mean… That was what that whole thing was about."

"Brain dead. We destroyed his personality, but we couldn't work out how to completely cut his connection to the plane of order. In theory, the Tower's intelligence should still be capable of detecting us. And since we've been here before…"
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For John to have become a lord of order, he would have cut off Nabu's connection and graft it to himself. According to Paul, they had no way whatsoever to cut off Nabu from Order.

No cutting, no grafting, no John Constantine being a Lord of Order through anything but proxy thanks to the helmet.
 
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