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Paul, it's generally considered impolite to try and set people up as part of a theoeugenics program.
Unless gods are like pokemon, and damn it, you need to breed them to get the useful creatures you want. (Has never played pokemon)

Eh, it's always dangerous to poke something that's truly immortal. After all remember, You Can't Kill The Metal.

Damn you!!! I was going to make that joke!
 
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Honestly, technology might be too broad a concept to be embodied by a god. Because technology is simply applied knowledge. Language is a technology for communication. Martial arts are a technology for combat. Magic is a technology for reality warping.
I think Zoat is using the old cliche of using "technology" to mean "electronics".
 
29th October
14:44 GMT +1


"I know you said that technology isn't part of your domain, but I still don't understand why it isn't."

Vulcan looks around from the volcanic resonance engine he was cooing over. "Really? It's a pretty simple concept. Primal concepts have the largest impact on both the arcane world and on the people living in it. The latter becoming increasingly important in more recent times."

Hephaestus pours more metal into a mould. They're making another metamaterial, something heavy as heck but super strong. "There's been lightning for as long as this world has existed. Darkness for longer."

"I know that, it's why enchanting swords is easy but enchanting guns is hard. But isn't smithing a lot more recent than everything else?"

Vulcan pushes a couple of levers downwards, and runes on the engine start glowing fiery red. "Isn't love?"

"Maybe, but sexual reproduction is a billion years old. Tool use is nothing like that old."

Hephaestus waves a tool a little like a coat hanger over his metal, the molten liquid visibly cooling as he does so. "Tool use is older than the humans who use most of them. And that matters more than you might think."

Vulcan nods. "There's a reason why we gods all look human. Before you, there was just power without form-."

Donna doesn't look impressed. "Are you saying we literally built gods in our own image?"

"I doubt it was a conscious process. But, in places, your ideas caused the Dreaming to… I'm not sure how you'd describe it. There was power, but you gave it form. Definition. That process eventually gave rise to the Titans. And because they already had powerful ties to the material world, moving from the Dreaming to the material world was simple for them."

"I know about the titans. I saw Oceanus this summer. Giant elemental monsters, who were really powerful because they embodied the most primal concepts."

Hephaestus shakes his head. "No. Not monsters. Not.. colossal animals, like some big elementals can be. The titans basically came from early humans, remember. And some parts of human life are so universal to your species that they had to share those elements themselves. Like breeding, for example. Or fighting for power."

Donna nods, a little irritated at the speed of the narration. "The titans begat the gods, resulting in a worldwide supernatural war which saw the titans lose to their children and either be killed or imprisoned."

Hephaestus turns his casting out, and then picks it up to look it over. "You're missing the point. Each god is a combination of the arcane characteristics of their parents, paired with some aspect of the world as experienced by humans. Humans have been making tools for long enough that nurturing and commanding could combine into crafting. It doesn't come up much these days, but flint tools are as much a part of…" He glances at Vulcan, who is hooking up his newly tested engine to an assemblage of some kind. "Our domain as metal tools. But they've got history. We've both tried, but our instinct for metalworking doesn't extend to circuitry."

"On the other hand, it can help with novel applications. Since you-" Vulcan nods in my direction. "-shared that idea about using jovium as a heat conductor, we've been building all sorts of things."

Hephaestus slots his casting into a rack with a dozen others like it, then pulls a chain to turn the pulleys to move it out into the middle of a clear area in the middle of the complex.

Hm. "So… You aren't the Gods of Technology."

"No." Vulcan picks up something that looks like a large bore rifle. "And we can't learn to become the Gods of Technology. But we can learn technology."

"From what you were saying about god breeding, would it follow that one of your offspring would be the God of Technology?"

"Hm." Hephaestus stops pulling and frowns as he thinks about it. "He wasn't, but at that point 'technology' wasn't much more than what was covered by my domain. And his mother…"

"Um."

"Probably not the right mix."

Donna frowns. "Just one? The myths-."

"I'm a married crippled smith who earned Zeus' disfavour. The goddesses weren't exactly lining up." He waves his right hand dismissively before clumping awkwardly back towards Vulcan. "Sometimes they named me as the father as a joke, or when they didn't want to get a mortal lover in trouble. Trust me, the real number isn't high."

"So who was he? And.. who was his mother?"

A very faint smile graces his lips. "I read everything I can on science and technology. I teach anyone with a mind to learn and a will to use their knowledge. And you need to ask me who my son's mother was?"

Donna blinks, shocked. "The myths about Erichtonius say-."

"Myths… Say a lot of things. I wouldn't put too much store in them." He comes to a halt next to Vulcan and turns around. "Zeus ate her mother because he feared her power. What do you think he would have done to her son?"

"So… You're saying that she's not a virgin?"

He shrugs. "We never married. And she couldn't acknowledge him…"

"So what would be?"

"What?"

"If learning and craft don't make technology, what does?"

Vulcan lowers his gun, rolling his eyes. "Can't we leave the theoretical theologism until we're well into our cups?"

"I was just wondering-?"

"As I said, the sort of technology that exists today wasn't a thing when Erichtonius was born. With no metaphysical source of power, he wasn't much more capable than a demigod. But… Athena is a war goddess as much as she is a patron of classical learning. I'm not sure that he'd have been technology even if he'd been born today."

"Technology. Someone sees a problem, comes up with a way to deal with it… And then a few years later it's being put to a use they never envisaged and society has shifted around it in unplanned and uncontrollable ways…" I smile. "How do you feel about E-"

"No."

"-ris?"

Vulcan raises his gun again. "Test seventy five, heat transfer gun mark four. Firing."

Hephaestus nods. "Thank you."

Runes along the sides of the gun glow, and there's a faint hiss as the air inside superheats and a projectile rockets from the muzzle, striking Hephaestus' metal barricade dead centre. Molten metal explodes away from the impact point, and I can see it continuing to dribble down from the point of impact.

Hephaestus tilts his head to the side. "Some damage."

"Hm." Vulcan smiles, then pulls another lever on his engine. For a moment, noth-.

The projectile flares brilliant white for an instant, and I get construct shields up just about quickly enough to prevent us getting enshrouded in vaporised metal!

"Hm." Hephaestus takes a moment to examine the dripping remains of his metal plates. "And it does that to four inch thick gromril. What do you say we try it against enchanted plates next?"
Gromril?

I think I'm starting to see why he's not too keen to get it on with a goddess of Chaos. He and his bro Vulcan should start making Dawi from stone and start being on the lookout for greenskins.
 
Gromril?

I think I'm starting to see why he's not too keen to get it on with a goddess of Chaos. He and his bro Vulcan should start making Dawi from stone and start being on the lookout for greenskins.

The modern world is perfectly willing to accept a family with two dads.

It also sounds like Hades could get involved and give the kid a semi-life and we can have a kid with THREE dads.
 
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The modern world is perfectly willing to accept a family with two dads.

It also sounds like Hades could get involved and give the kid a semi-life and we can have a kid with THREE dads.
Well, there has been a spike in religious practice, including fundamental Christian practice, after the events of Fawcett city, so the modern world of Earth-16 is probably a little less accepting of those issues than our modern world currently is.
 
Unless gods are like pokemon, and damn it, you need to breed them to get the useful creatures you want. (Has never played pokemon)
Yeah you never actually have to breed them. I mean it's probably required if you want to participate in real-life tournaments because everyone else is doing it too and it does make a pretty huge difference, but this requires breeding like hundreds of them until they have the right natures and EVs and stuff. You never have to breed Pokemon in the games themselves, as long as you have a diverse team and you aren't super under leveled the games are pretty easy.

Heck I've only bred Pokemon once, in X/Y because I wanted a strong Zoroark, and Pokemon you raise yourself are stronger than the ones you just catch at high levels.
 
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on both the arcane world and the
Thank you, corrected.
I think Zoat is using the old cliche of using "technology" to mean "electronics".
Not exactly. Technically, Archimedes screws aren't part of their domains either. Or mechanical computers. Or combustion engines. It's just that they have an easier time with those are they're sufficiently close that they can use the insight they have to partially understand them. Similarly, they have no insight into chemical engineering or biotechnology.
 
They way I see it is that they are the gods of smiths and craftsmen, not inventors. They can make amazing and wonderful things, but it is opposed to their nature to make things fundamentally new, and the further you get away from things you can just craft, but instead need to fabricate, the further you get away from their domains.

You can build a society on craftsmen, but not an industrial revolution. An industrial revolution is all about fabrication.
 
Not exactly. Technically, Archimedes screws aren't part of their domains either. Or mechanical computers. Or combustion engines. It's just that they have an easier time with those are they're sufficiently close that they can use the insight they have to partially understand them. Similarly, they have no insight into chemical engineering or biotechnology.

I for one am kind of glad that Vulcan cannot rewrite our DNA with a genetically modifying retrovirus plague. But clearly Paul is kind of upset by that fact.
 
Thank you, corrected.

Not exactly. Technically, Archimedes screws aren't part of their domains either. Or mechanical computers. Or combustion engines. It's just that they have an easier time with those are they're sufficiently close that they can use the insight they have to partially understand them. Similarly, they have no insight into chemical engineering or biotechnology.

I think you're splitting hairs, a bit, on what a domain / mantle can be and trying to make them too reductive rather than inclusive.

A ballpoint pen is technology - would Hephaestus have more difficulty using his domain to build a pen than he would building a suit of armor or a weapon just because pens are more recent constructions? If so, it makes him look stupid.

The whole "craftsman" part of his usual domain, in my view, could easily include new crafts, not just the same old stuff. Invention is heavily implied by that, so I don't see why Hephaestus wouldn't get an invention boner every time that Kord designs a new piece of schizo-tech. Making them so stationary, unable to adapt, is boring, to me.
 
I think you're splitting hairs, a bit, on what a domain / mantle can be and trying to make them too reductive rather than inclusive.

A ballpoint pen is technology - would Hephaestus have more difficulty using his domain to build a pen than he would building a suit of armor or a weapon just because pens are more recent constructions? If so, it makes him look stupid.

The whole "craftsman" part of his usual domain, in my view, could easily include new crafts, not just the same old stuff. Invention is heavily implied by that, so I don't see why Hephaestus wouldn't get an invention boner every time that Kord designs a new piece of schizo-tech. Making them so stationary, unable to adapt, is boring, to me.

Ome can craft a pen. You can make an exquisite piece of art for the desk of a king.

You cannot craft a pen factory. Crafting requires a degree of focus and attention that raw fabrication simply lacks.
 
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