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Now, yes... then? Not so much. Putting in Ambush bug a 4th wall breaking character when it's not in the source material was a choice... which was pretty much my comment. There was no real excuse other than he wanted to and it was a rather annoying section to read for some of us.

I don't think most of us care whether something was in Young Justice or not, and if it helps Zoat write a more interesting story, I'm happy for him to borrow from whatever he wants. I haven't even seen YJ, but even for those who have, what's wrong with going off the rails? Just because it's a fanfiction set in a particular universe doesn't mean all the same things need to happen.
 
Honestly it sounds like anime universe Paul just hasn't gone public as a lantern yet (so the ring search didn't find him), and regular Paul got teleported into space in that universe (current time before time travel in universe, not the same as chapter 1 same memory, different timeline) without his memories, but the ophidian is going to give him his memories back as soon as he touches a lantern. The !get lantern things sound more like the ophidian trying to get Paul to contact her than Paul's desires.
 
Have you read any of the Culture novels? It would be an interesting contrast to WH40K, and seeing an alternate SI in Contact, doing societal uplift as part of his job along with other people who share his ideals, would be cool.
No. I read one Culture book and they were the villains. The society didn't seem that interesting to me.
 
Consider Phlebas. It's considered the worst start to the books because it doesn't take place within the Culture itself, and thus doesnt showcase it particularly well.

Huh, I never actually thought about how bizarre it would be to read Phlebas as the first book. It'd be like being introduced to Superman through a Lex Luther interlude or something...

Edit: Or more like if Captain America started off from Red Skull's POV. He's just there, fighting for his country with his wacky Nazi bros. Then some asshole in red, white and blue turns up and kicks his shit in...
 
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Really? Huh. I started that one, and stopped part of the way through. I just assumed you had to start with that one, since it was the first published.
I think there are only two or three instances in any of the books where something in a previously published book meaningfully affects a later one. Consider Phlebas is important to read before Look to Windward, and Use of Weapons before Surface Detail, but other than that I think you could read them in any order.
 
what's wrong with going off the rails?

Going off the rails happens when you change things. No issue with events happening differently, he's butterflied away a lot of stuff which is perfectly acceptable.

On the other hand, he was bringing a character into the fic (that is really annoying, at least to me and a couple others I've talked to) that doesn't exist in the direct source material (Young Justice).

If you include a bad character from the source material then you're just staying true to the source material... understandable.

If on the other hand you include a bad character from outside the direct source material then you're making a choice to include it. Sure the damned idiot is from DC but he didn't have to include him. I don't think anyone in their right mind would have blamed him for not including him... or the Queen of Fables for that matter.
 
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Going off the rails happens when you change things. No issue with events happening differently, he's butterflied away a lot of stuff which is perfectly acceptable.

On the other hand, he was bringing a character into the fic (that is really annoying, at least to me and a couple others I've talked to) that doesn't exist in the direct source material (Young Justice).

If you include a bad character from the source material then you're just staying true to the source material... understandable.

If on the other hand you include a bad character from outside the direct source material then you're making a choice to include it. Sure the damned idiot is from DC but he didn't have to include him. I don't think anyone in their right mind would have blamed him for not including him... or the Queen of Fables for that matter.
But Ambush Bug is great. Just watch the last episode of Batman the Brave and the Bold. Hell, I'm hoping he returns as an ally rather than an enemy at somepoint.
 
Ambush bug as a character was annoying, I'll grant you, but he made a great vehicle to see some of the alternate Pauls, which I've mostly liked. I'm not really liking this particular setting much, but I do like seeing the alternate Pauls. As for the Queen of Fables, eh, that arc was pretty interesting, even if the character herself wasn't really (granted, I was reading story only at that point, since I hadn't gotten caught up yet, and I hear she interacted with the thread in the main thread).
 
While there will be more things like that, they can't happen very often. Otherwise the world would be a wasteland. Or worse, Worm. I've got three planned but they're end of year events that require multiple episode build ups.

It's nice to know that more of that kind of thing is planned, because it really did work well. It felt like the sort of massive, global scale event that the episodes "War" and "Revelation" were in canon, and that was great.

One of the best parts of being a Lantern is that you can have moments like this happen on planets that aren't Earth, so you don't fuck over your usual setting narratively with world-ending doom all the time. It's difficult to imagine Paul in that situation because he usually needs to desire that society's protection, but the OLC still getting involved in that kind of thing sounds fun.
 
Honestly it sounds like anime universe Paul just hasn't gone public as a lantern yet (so the ring search didn't find him), and regular Paul got teleported into space in that universe (current time before time travel in universe, not the same as chapter 1 same memory, different timeline) without his memories, but the ophidian is going to give him his memories back as soon as he touches a lantern. The !get lantern things sound more like the ophidian trying to get Paul to contact her than Paul's desires.

That was a flashback to how anime universe Paul showed up in universe. We still don't know where/how OPaul is going to show up.
 
No. I read one Culture book and they were the villains. The society didn't seem that interesting to me.
Of all the Culture books, Consider Phlebas is probably the least liked book among the series, and the worst possible book to start out with. Completely different from all the other books.

Here, essentially, what you would get from each book:

Consider Phlebias: A look at a opponent that has a perfectly legitimate grievance to the (self-admittedly) really nice but imperfect utopia of the Culture. And then gets fucked anyway because said opponent are also just kinda dicks on the side.

The Player of Games: We see a slice of life of a typical Culture citizen before he's unwittingly duped into helping overthrow a sexiest monarchy by playing a really fucking complicated board game. It makes sense in context. Gives good look at the daring, roguish adventures of the subsets of the Culture which try to uplift while also mostly preserving the Prime Directive.

Use of Weapons: Confusing as fuck. Non-linear storytelling can go fuck itself. If you want to see a little of what the Culture is like it shows you some but honestly just stay away, it's basically 90% a mercenary going and doing shit on other planets unrelated..

State of the Art: Haven't read it, can anyone else advise?

Excession: A more in-depth look at the we're-kinda-gods-but-we-try-not-to-brag Minds, aka what AI look like after thousands of years of ongoing singularity. Shows what intrigue looks like when hyperintelligent beings are doing it, and gives us a look at what kind of engaging interpersonal drama you can get in a near-utopia.

Inversions: Also have not read it, sorry. Apparently has so little to do directly with the Culture that its not even clear that its about them at all.

Look to Windward: Crown jewel of the series if you want a look at life in the Culture, basically 80% of the book takes place in a habitat and focuses on the details of a Culture community. Community in this case being a Orbital with several times the population of Earth.

Matter: Matter, a.k.a. what the fuck do those medieval societies do when they realize they're surrounded by other people with seemingly god-like technology who interact with them on a regular basis. Also another good look at the derring-do of Contact/Special Circumstances or those-badass-uplift-guys as everyone else knows them.

Surface Detail: The Matrix: Culture Edition. Focuses on the world of simulated worlds and digital people, and also the fact that some societies straight up make literal hell simulations where demons torture you 24/7 and then throw people in them. If you through Democrat vs Republicans was a violent political debate, wait until you see Pro-Hells v.s. Anti-Hells.

The Hydrogen Sonata: Last book of the series (rip), gives a very good and long look at Contact/Special Circumstances and also reveals a lot more about what the actual fuck the Sublime are, a.k.a. those literal-gods among practically-gods.
 
This is veering a little off topic, even if the discussion will move back to normal in about an hour, but but here's an additional link describing the philosophy behind the Culture, written by the author: A Few Notes on the Culture, by Iain M Banks

Basically just a long article instead of a novel, and acts as a litmus test to see if you would enjoy the books or not.

I agree with Buggy in thinking that Look to Windward is the best book for getting a feel for the Culture, and his summaries in general, although disagree about Use of Weapons. It's a very different novel from the others, but very good if occasionally somewhat polarizing. Much more of a character driven novel.
 
I think there are only two or three instances in any of the books where something in a previously published book meaningfully affects a later one. Consider Phlebas is important to read before Look to Windward, and Use of Weapons before Surface Detail, but other than that I think you could read them in any order.
Agreed.

Which Culture novel do you recommend as a starting point for someone new to the series? I wonder if you have the same view as I do.

EDIT: Sorry, I see you answered my question in a subsequent post. Look to Windward is great (second favourite), but I don't use it as an introduction; for that, Player of Games is my go to.
 
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I started with The Player of Games, which honestly was a bad choice, though a good novel. Honestly, Excession is probably the most easily accessible. It's not the best. Decent, but not great. But easily accessible.
 
I will say, Use of Weapons and Surface Detail are notable for having what is, I think, the only character we see in more than 1 book in the entire series.

Banks was not a fan of sequels.
 
Mandated (part 4)
5th July 2010
Mid day


Ouwgh!

The lawn flashes past my eyes and then agh!

I'm.. folded around a tree. Urg, what? OW! Fix. Ah. Turn around and.. shield..?

Lantern Sunao walks lightly across the lawn, glowing ring on the middle finger of his right hand. He raises it, and a glowing green hand reaches out and takes his lantern from the plinth and brings it to him. Lantern Sunao is clean shaven and bald, but his musculature is solid and his gestures certain. The lantern in his hand, he takes a moment to check it over before regarding me carefully.

And then just stands there, green light spilling from his ring.

Okay?

The ring isn't a simple circular sigil attached to a circle of… Whatever power rings are made of. It looks like a small carriage lantern attached to a ring. The glow is constant, but now I'm looking at it I can see the faint green aura all around him. It's.. not stable in the way mine is. Rather, it's.. like a flame, billowing around him. I frown slightly as I look at my own left hand. Is it.. supposed to do that? I'd say not, but-. Wait. That's what Alan Scott's ring did, isn't it?

"And who might you be?"

"I'm-."

I stagger, my construct shield flickering for a moment.

He raises his eyebrows, smiling politely. "Are you unwell?"

"I-. No, I…" I frown. "I'm-."

I'm on my knees, propping myself up with both hands on the grass. I.. can't say my name? That's ridiculous. P-.

I shudder, but I don't collapse this time. Great, I can't think my name either.

"Are you having difficulty remembering?"

I rise to a crouch, frowning. "No. I remember, but if I think about it too directly…"

"I see." He nods. "And do you know who I am?"

"Yes. Green Lantern Sunao Souma."

He nods. "And do you know where you are?"

"A.. park? I came here because this is where the-. Where your personal lantern is."

"And before that?"

"The sky above it, then space."

"And before that?"

"Aaaah… Not.. clearly? I think I was at home in bed-." I stand. "I'd very much like your lantern."

He nods. "I had gathered that from your attempt to steal it."

I flick my right hand to the side. "I didn't think you were using it. Heck, I didn't think you were even here. Ring, why did you tell me he wasn't here?"

"Subject not detectable by standard scan."

"Tremendously helpful. So, yes, since you don't appear to be using it I would very much like it. I've.. got no idea what currency is used around here, but if you'll name a figure.. I can probably work something out."

He blinks. "You would offer to buy the lantern of Jong Li from me?"

"Yes..? It was just in the middle of nowhere, the ring couldn't find any recent records of you being active and I couldn't detect you. For all I knew you were dead or something. But since you're not, yes."

His eyes fix on my left hand. "Where did you get that ring?"

"I-. I don't know, it was just there."

He nods. "Had you heard of me before you decided to take my lantern?"

"No." Ah. "Ah, hang on. Ring, anything I'm not remembering?"

A series of images flicker through my mind, too fast for me to really perceive them individually. Weirdly, that's actually easier to cope with than trying to think my own name. I just shake my head.

"And my fellow Heavenly Guardians?"

I shake my head. "Is that a Japanese superhero team?"

He appears to find that very slightly amusing. "No. No, it is not. Have you noticed any things which… Seem strange to you? Facets of the world which are different to how you think they should be?"

"Yes. Why would anyone fire a nuclear weapon at Mount Fuji? In fact, why are there so many nuclear blast points in Japan and China?" I point upwards with my right forefinger. "And there were actual space ships up there."

"Hm." He nods. "Then I have two possibilities in mind. But I wonder; what would you do if I refused to relinquish my lantern?"

"Um."

!Get lantern!

My environmental shield flares and I take a step towards him
. He doesn't really react… What.. would I do..? "I'd… Ah, ask you why?"

"You know nothing of my character." He waves his left hand. "Assume that all reasonable avenues have been exhausted."

"Then…" I don't like it, but… "I'd.. try and take it from you. Using.. the minimum amount of force."

"I see." He nods. "That is generous of you, considering my age."

"I-. Yes, I'm not exactly feeling proud of myself, but I.. do need it."

"You don't get to make that decision."

Lantern Sunao and I look up as a woman -yes, that's very definitely a woman- glowing with the power of a green power ring flies over the clearing, construct dragons hovering to either side of her. That's a bit stereotypical, isn't it? Her eyes are solid green in colour -some sort of visual enhancement?- and she's got small construct lanterns placed over her ears.

Lantern Yifei. Problematic.

Ah, ring? Can I go faster than light from a standing start?

Affirmative.


"Lantern Yifei, I feel this young man is somewhat confused. Until he takes directly aggressive action-."

"All he's guilty of is trespass and theft? And dealing with whoever gave him that cheap power ring knockoff?"

Oh no you didn't.

Orange plate materialises around my body as I match her height. "I assure you, Lantern Yifei, this is very much a power ring." Hm. Dragons are obvious, but… "What's that you're doing with your eyes? Some sort of.. expanded visual field..? I'm using a heads up display myself but I haven't had time to experiment yet."

"What?"

"As I said, Lantern Yifei, he is confused. He does not know who we are."

She doesn't turn her head. "How can he not know..? Is he from one of those crazy European monastic community things?"

I frown. "No."

"Possibly. I was endeavouring to find out. I really do think that a less confrontational approach is called for."

"Alright. No, I'm not doing anything with my visual field. I'm blind. They just.. glow like this when I'm wearing my ring."

Huh. I'd have thought that the Guardians could have fixed that. Or they'd have cloned eyes or cybernetics or something like that. Odd.

!Perfect!.

On the other hand, given what the ring did to my body, it shouldn't be too hard…


I smile, raising my left hand. "Let me help you with that."

"Hu-?"

Orange light flashes from the ring, punching through her environmental shield and striking the upper portion of her face. The eyeballs themselves are basically fine, but there's damage to the optic nerve and.. visual cortex. Nasty, but perfectly fixable. Change that change that good-good-.

And then the giant sumo wrestler construct slams me head first into the soil.

"Jade. Are you injured?"

And it's holding me here and I'm really not sure that my armour can take this. What's going on?

In my mind's eye I see Lantern Yifei pick herself off the ground, blinking as she does so. Lantern Sunao comes forward to cover her. Her constructs fail and her environmental shield dims as she stares at her hands with her fully healed eyes.

"No, I-. I can.. see."

"Are you certain that is all that occurred?"

"Ah." She turns to face him, pointing at her eyes. "Yeah."

"I see." He waves his hand and the pressure vanishes with the sumo wrestler.

I pick myself out of the hole and turn to face him as he looks me over carefully.

"Young man, would you care for some tea?"
 
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Well this is much more interesting than normal Paul, i hope this means we might get a look at the other pauls, im still worried about anti-greens hellish existance as a slave and wether or not Red Paul has killed anyone important in a fit of rage.
 
That's certainly one way to get on their good side. A strange way that goes through more twists than a roller coaster, but definitely a way.
 
One of the best parts of being a Lantern is that you can have moments like this happen on planets that aren't Earth, so you don't fuck over your usual setting narratively with world-ending doom all the time.
That would have the same problem people are complaining about here: they aren't invested in the characters.
Missing quote in the I see.
Thank you, corrected.
Well this is much more interesting than normal Paul, i hope this means we might get a look at the other pauls, im still worried about anti-greens hellish existance as a slave and wether or not Red Paul has killed anyone important in a fit of rage.
Only deliberately.
 
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