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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Mr Zoat said:
Don't forget that in the second ending humanity starts eating its babies as well, because the Super Happy Fun people think that's the most reasonable compromise.
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Well that doesn't make any sense at all. I forget what it's called but there are basically two viable strategies to having surviving offspring, one being having dozens or hundreds of which the vast majority die and the other is having a few that you guard viciously and raise. The baby eaters are the first and humans are the second. Attempting to apply child rearing techniques from the second to the first is already a pretty spotty idea but the inverse is just unviable.
 
I just really, really hope that the angel remains reasonable (as it has been until now), and that Paul can and will explain fully why he can't ask for forgiveness. And, hell, that the angel gets to see Blaze and maybe help them?

Establishing positive contact with forces of Silver city, or at least with the garden of Eden, would be a great boon. And Paul should realize this. He should be diplomatic here. There seems to be a real chance of alliance.
 
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Avernus said:
he's basically trying to con the angel.
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If I'm remembering right, the Torah literally gave us the word 'semantics', and nowhere in the Bible, or the Code of Hamurabi (the original source of the 'eye for an eye, hand for a hand' judgement on theft) does it require the thief to feel pain in the removal of whichever bodily organ, nor do they pass a judgement on being able to regrow said organ.

Details. They're important!
 
Yog said:
I just really, really hope that the angel remains reasonable (as it has been until now), and that Paul can and will explain fully why he can't ask for forgiveness. And, hell, that the angel gets to see Blaze and maybe help them?

Establishing positive contact with forces of Silver city, or at least with the garden of Eden, would be a great boon. And Paul should realize this. He should be diplomatic here. There seems to be a real chance of alliance.
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Agreed, Paul should at the very least explain why he honestly can't repent and explain what he is doing.

I get angels don't have free will but hopefully they can understand logic and get behind the idea of getting Blaze to become a force of good to use against her brother who is now the new lord of Hell.
 
agumentic said:
Even if it was the case, what's stopping him from converting right back to Hellinism afterwards?
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You need to have genuine faith and contrition to get God's forgiveness, IIRC. If Paul tried to do a bait and switch like that he'd still owe Heaven recompense for the theft.
Mr Zoat said:
Is it a con that a fine is a fixed sum of money which means that a rich person can pay it more easily than a poor person?
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Yes.
 
Maybe it's an angry at god thing? Like, if he had stolen from Odin he'd repent but he can't feel bad about stealing from someone he considers an awful person?

Since he's never met god (YHWH or whatever if you prefer) and also doesn't believe accounts of him are accurate you'd think he'd hold off on passing judgement. How does he know god's to blame for hell, for example? The Bible? OL doesn't believe the Bible.

How do we know angels don't have free will again? This guy seems reasonable enough. Can we distinguish it from having free will which can at times be overridden?
 
Yog said:
I just really, really hope that the angel remains reasonable (as it has been until now), and that Paul can and will explain fully why he can't ask for forgiveness. And, hell, that the angel gets to see Blaze and maybe help them?
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That would be funny, actually.


"Good news, Sephtian. I found an expert consultant on Angelic Theurgy."

"Oh? Who did you fi- GAAH!"

3.1 "Technically I am more of a practitioner than a consultant, but I will see what I can do."
 
Was it that hard to say:
"I'm really sorry that I didn't found a better way of doing what I am doing and I'll try to do better in the future. But I can't be honestly sorry about doing that under circumstances I am currently in. Is that honest enough apology?"
?

Because if Paul do not have problem with not finding better way than stealing, then it does make me think less of him (unlike stealing itself under circumstances).
 
HanEmpire said:
You need to have genuine faith and contrition to get God's forgiveness, IIRC.
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Does Paul not genuinely regret that he had to sour his relationship with Silver City to get the fruit, like a man regrets having to spend money to fix his car, even if it's needed? Does he not want to get that relationship back to neutral? Does he deny Presence's existence?
 
Ganurath said:
"1i.1 This is a really inefficient way to kill demons. Here, this'll work much-"

"She's not supposed to die!"

"1i.2 I appreciate you waiting patiently for your death, blue fiend, but you must wait your turn."
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Eh, converting a demon to the side of would be a far greater achievement and the angel seems smart enough to realize this. I mean, if all angels were automatically "kill all demons" then "succubus falls in love with an angel" thing wouldn't have worked.
Monshroud said:
But will pride and prejudice on either side be overcome to allow this?

Here's hoping!
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So far the angel hasn't shown any.
Massgamer said:
Agreed, Paul should at the very least explain why he honestly can't repent and explain what he is doing.

I get angels don't have free will but hopefully they can understand logic and get behind the idea of getting Blaze to become a force of good to use against her brother who is now the new lord of Hell.
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Do we actually know that all angels don't have free will? I mean, John Constantine, while smart and on his way to become the greatest mage around, isn't exactly completely flawlessly knowledgeable.
 
Yog said:
Do we actually know that all angels don't have free will? I mean, John Constantine, while smart and on his way to become the greatest mage around, isn't exactly completely flawlessly knowledgeable.
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Honestly not sure, maybe the higher ranking ones have more independence but I have no idea in regards to Zoat's story in general since he takes from different sources and applying his own logic to things.
 
al103 said:
Was it that hard to say:
"I'm really sorry that I didn't found a better way of doing what I am doing and I'll try to do better in the future. But I can't be honestly sorry about doing that under circumstances I am currently in. Is that honest enough apology?"
?

Because if Paul do not have problem with not finding better way than stealing, then it does make me think less of him (unlike stealing itself under circumstances).
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As stated before, that has excellent odds of ackmowledging Christianity as his 'faith of choice' (which it isn't) and likely damning him to hell for eternity after death, instead of Erebos with Hades.
 
agumentic said:
Does Paul not genuinely regret that he had to sour his relationship with Silver City to get the fruit, like a man regrets having to spend money to fix his car, even if it's needed? Does he not want to get that relationship back to neutral? Does he deny Presence's existence?
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Does he think making right with Silver City is worth the risk of going to Hell?
 
So since no one else seems surprised, what's the deal with the numbers before the angel speaks?

Side-note, the fact that the angel seemed to appreciate OL being upfront about the theft seems to imply that, at least in Zoat's version of DC's Christianity, God was more miffed about Adam and Eve lying about stealing and eating the fruit than the theft itself.
 
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King of Frost said:
So since no one else seems surprised, what's the deal with the numbers before the angel speaks?

Side-note, the fact that the angel seemed to appreciate OL being upfront about the theft seems to imply that, at least in Zoat's version of DC's Christianity, God was more miffed about Adam and Eve lying about eating the fruit than the theft itself.
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It is basically speaking in biblical verse, which also happened in the Discworld book Small Gods when the gods made proper anouncements.
 
Ashaeron said:
As stated before, that has excellent odds of ackmowledging Christianity as his 'faith of choice' (which it isn't) and likely damning him to hell for eternity after death, instead of Erebos with Hades.
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That is based on inner belief. If he says sorry because he feels sorry and not because God Said So (TM) then it shouldn't. And even if he does that because God Said So (TM) it still shouldn't if he does that because of respect while not acknowledging as his god.
 
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