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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Empiricist2 said:
Counterpoint to Earth 16 using methods like that- Robin's arm computer can break encryption in like 5 seconds. He did this multiple times during the show, and I think did so in this story as well. So either Robin's arm computer is a similarly advanced piece of Clarktech to a power ring, or encryption doesn't work in this story like it does IRL. I'm leaning towards the latter.
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Robin's computer is probably a terminal to the Batcomputer which is almost certainly a massively parallel compute farm that Batman personally keeps up-to-date with all known cryptanalysis studies and every imaginable attack vector ever devised by a researcher or hacker. A dedicated hacking system like that would cut through "normal" crypto pretty easily.

Especially because even IRL encryption is rarely as secure as it COULD be. Servers that are years out of date running on known-compromised software? Four-digit PIN numbers that are "1234" way more than 0.01% of the time? NOT using two-factor authentication? Not using encryption at some point in the data flow? Not actually using encryption at all?

I doubt Robin was ever hacking something that was ostensibly defended by the top security researchers on the planet. And even so -- it's not unreasonable to believe that in a world of schizotech like DC that a multibillionaire like Wayne could have a personal hacking array to rival or even exceed the capabilities of national cyberespionage agencies.
 
MidnightFlame said:
One OL halfbody by Hedrick-CS. I don't know if he's going to upload it in his dA gallery, but as of right now he hasn't.

This is the highest resolution available. The original artwork is on A5 paper and currently not in my possession, and when it will be, there's still no promise that the scanner won't murder the colours.
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Added to the list.

In the interests of accuracy -and I'm certainly not complaining about getting more fan art- the SI wears the ring on his ring finger and not his forefinger, the sigil should be rotated through 180 degrees and his eyes should be either a) orange if the ring has power or b) dull green if it doesn't. His ears also don't curve over at the top, though I don't think that's come up in the story yet.
 
Mr Zoat said:
In the interests of accuracy -and I'm certainly not complaining about getting more fan art- the SI wears the ring on his ring finger and not his forefinger, the sigil should be rotated through 180 degrees and his eyes should be either a) orange if the ring has power or b) dull green if it doesn't. His ears also don't curve over at the top, though I don't think that's come up in the story yet.
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Ok, ok, I got it, I have to draw some exact references for OL and use those next time. I'll get to it.
 
Okay, to settle this encryption crap.

From what I can tell, the ring uses a Sufficiently Advanced simulation software to simulate a highly detailed replication of the server in question (the whole thing, down to the ones and zeros). Then it will brute force the passwords, restarting the simulation as needed.

And because it is Sufficiently Advanced, the ring can do this stupidly quickly.

In such a situation, there is no way for the encryption to stop the ring from breaking it. The only thing it can do is stop the ring from being able to get a sufficiently detailed scan on the server, thus not allowing the ring to simulate it. From what I can tell this can best be done through warding the server in question.
 
Emizaquel said:
Okay, to settle this encryption crap.

From what I can tell, the ring uses a Sufficiently Advanced simulation software to simulate a highly detailed replication of the server in question (the whole thing, down to the ones and zeros). Then it will brute force the passwords, restarting the simulation as needed.

And because it is Sufficiently Advanced, the ring can do this stupidly quickly.

In such a situation, there is no way for the encryption to stop the ring from breaking it. The only thing it can do is stop the ring from being able to get a sufficiently detailed scan on the server, thus not allowing the ring to simulate it. From what I can tell this can best be done through warding the server in question.
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This is all essentially true, for Sufficiently Advanced at power ring level due to its ability to subspace the computation and thereby sidestep those pesky physical laws. (Of course, there's the open question of how much ring charge it expends to do such a thing, so I would expect it to take whatever shortcuts are available to it -- it would be way more efficient to compute the algorithms directly instead of simulating the hardware itself, for example.) Just adding FTL computation to Real-Earth physics is enough to be overpoweredly broken even if you don't have quantum processing.

It does, however, open up the interesting possibility that Robin and OL have not-entirely-overlapping sets of systems that they're capable of penetrating.
 
Coda said:
This is all essentially true, for Sufficiently Advanced at power ring level due to its ability to subspace the computation and thereby sidestep those pesky physical laws. (Of course, there's the open question of how much ring charge it expends to do such a thing, so I would expect it to take whatever shortcuts are available to it -- it would be way more efficient to compute the algorithms directly instead of simulating the hardware itself, for example.) Just adding FTL computation to Real-Earth physics is enough to be overpoweredly broken even if you don't have quantum processing.

It does, however, open up the interesting possibility that Robin and OL have not-entirely-overlapping sets of systems that they're capable of penetrating.
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Point. I am more or less stating the high end, something that would cover any system of any architecture using any programming language running on any hardware. Likely, the Sufficiently Advanced portion of the simulation simplifies it and so on.

I am also quite intrigued, since Robin has actual skill when in comes to 'Hacking' into networks, he can do so in situations that OL is unable to simply scan the server.
 
Silverias said:
All true, all irrelevant.

OL has a computer that dwarfs the most powerful quantum computer humanity has ever devised. "Hard to reverse" means nothing to a power ring.
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It depends on how hard "hard" is. It takes a certain amount of energy to flip a bit, so at some point algorithmic difficulty can be measured in terms of sun-years of power output. Yes, power rings are bullshit, but if they could casually do calculations that thermodynamically require enough energy to power the sun for a hundred years...
 
ThrustVectoring said:
but if they could casually do calculations that thermodynamically require enough energy to power the sun for a hundred years...
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You mean like converting a whole body to energy? Or scanning a planet for minuscule details? Or automatically translating any language it comes across instantly? Stabilizing planar instability on the fly? Mapping a brain to detect desires and react to them with perfect detail?
 
Coda said:
Robin's computer is probably a terminal to the Batcomputer which is almost certainly a massively parallel compute farm that Batman personally keeps up-to-date with all known cryptanalysis studies and every imaginable attack vector ever devised by a researcher or hacker. A dedicated hacking system like that would cut through "normal" crypto pretty easily.
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Counterargument: in the first episode, Robin was hacking Cadmus while being so deep underground that they didn't have signal so they couldn't call the League, he has also hacked while supposedly under radio silence. So it's all being done by his arm computer.
 
An interesting and valid counterpoint.

I haven't actually seen the YJ series. What, specifically, was he hacking at that point?
 
Coda said:
What, specifically, was he hacking at that point?
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Cadmus, company making clone slaves and two kryptonian clones under the hidden hand of Luthor on their 50+ floor hidden basement. He got access to their database and later their security sensors system.
frustratedbuffa said:
Counter-counterargument: Quantum-entanglement schizo-tech.
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If they had that, they could have called for backup instead of outright saying "we're too deep for the signal to reach, we can't call backup". This was, like, 2 feet away from the terminal in front of Superboy that Robin used to hack from.
 
I wouldn't have been surprised about hacking security systems being something that a standalone device could manage. That's conceptually a much simpler operation -- you wouldn't generally worry about encrypting those signals within the facility; the important part would be keeping it inaccessible from the outside.

Hacking the database without external support... Well, I suppose it depends on exactly what the scenario in question was. I mean, again, assuming that the facility was externally secure, internal opsec may not have been especially rigorous -- he could have accessed a terminal that was just left unlocked and all the arm computer was doing was interfacing with it.
 
Coda said:
Hacking the database without external support... Well, I suppose it depends on exactly what the scenario in question was. I mean, again, assuming that the facility was externally secure, internal opsec may not have been especially rigorous -- he could have accessed a terminal that was just left unlocked and all the arm computer was doing was interfacing with it.
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Things hacked from beyond signal range:
- Security elevator door
- heavy-duty reinforced security door.
- Computer in room behind said door, he just plugged his wrist computer through USB and hacked the database.
- Security door to elevator after the place had been placed in high alert, again, just plug and type until it opens
- another computer, which was definitely turned off (they were seen pressing the on button), inside the highest-security lab, note that the lab was designed to contain an out-of-control kryptonian clone, not keep things outside. Then once again on the computer controlling the pod containing said clone (which, again, was off, and he had to bypass it's security to access since the words "bypassing security" were flashing on his wrist computer), this computer had a not-insignificant amount of data on the project, so it wasn't just a terminal with an unlock button.

That's all from the first episode.

EDIT: if we go for the second episode, he had already taken out the cameras in whatever hacking he did beforehand, and by removing a random side panel on a hallway and plugging in, the motion sensors of the level were all hacked by Robin and made to wirelessly report to his computer and say whatever he wanted.
 
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Doors, as mentioned, aren't that especially big of a deal. If you just bypass the security system entirely and just directly access the locking mechanism... well, it doesn't matter what kind of authentication you have in place. A paranoid security scheme might be able to DETECT this and trigger an alarm or possibly even go into extreme "nobody and I mean nobody gets in or out" lockdown mode where you have to bring power tools to physically remove the door, but that's not the same as denying unauthorized access. It's basically like hotwiring a car instead of using the key.

The computer behind said door... If that's the actual server system, then physical access to the machine is a game-over scenario even in real-world security systems unless it's configured to require an administrator to manually input a decryption key every time the power goes out. This is common enough for things like laptops and smartphones, but fairly uncommon for servers that need high uptime, even in high-security situations -- you use physical security like, y'know, a door. If Robin actually plugged something into the machine, then I have no doubt that he would be able to copy any data he wanted off of it.

The pod... well, do we as the audience know what AUTHORIZED access to the pod looks like? It wouldn't surprise me if it was relatively unsophisticated (like a 4-digit PIN) and its purpose was more to avoid accidental access by people with enough clearance to be in there but not enough clearance to actually do anything.
 
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Coda said:
Doors, as mentioned, aren't that especially big of a deal. If you just bypass the security system entirely and just directly access the locking mechanism... well, it doesn't matter what kind of authentication you have in place.
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Funny you say that, the later elevator hacking? he plugged into the authentication console (some form of oversized badge reader, or that's what it looked like), not the lock.
Coda said:
If that's the actual server system
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No it isn't, waay too small, it's barely a little console in front of what passes as the power system of the base (a bunch of cloned, electricity-generating critters in pods). He accessed the database on all the cloning projects from there. Oh, and he downloaded it all to his wrist computer. In seconds. Through an USB port.
Coda said:
The pod... well, do we as the audience know what AUTHORIZED access to the pod looks like? It wouldn't surprise me if it was relatively unsophisticated (like a 4-digit PIN) and its purpose was more to avoid accidental access by people with enough clearance to be in there but not enough clearance to actually do anything.
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It doesn't explain the access to sensitive data from it, if it were just a control panel for the pod you might be right, but it was a full out computer.

Face it, while YJ at least has the decency to require access to the internal closed system instead of allowing magical hacking from the outside, when it comes down to doing it it's hollywood hacking.
 
aabbcc said:
Face it, while YJ at least has the decency to require access to the internal closed system instead of allowing magical hacking from the outside, when it comes down to doing it it's hollywood hacking.
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I yield, I yield! XD I was trying my best to fridge-brilliance some sanity into there, but... yup, that's hollywood hacking, no two ways about it.

(EDIT: Although size doesn't mean terribly much when it comes to servers -- I mean, in the real world, most servers are the size of a pizza box.)
 
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