- Location
- Wishing I was somewhere much colder, I asssume.
Oh, is that why people were thinking OL was jumping right into doing horrible things?
How many people didn't realize the branding wasn't identity theft?
With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
- Status
How many people didn't realize the branding wasn't identity theft?
- Location
- Australia
It's less that's he's Branding someone and more that he's doing so without strenuously weighing the pro/cons against his morals as he used to, and not only doing it as a last resort for something that he needs to do.
Or, in fact, doing it for any reason at all - there is not a single thing so far he got out of Branding her that he couldn't get by disabling/containing her and keeping her with him.
Except of course to demonstrate his status as ''Beast of Okaara Spider Guild Ally Edition, complete with assimilated construct-minions and mindrape harem action!'
"OL are excellent diplo-man, beep-boop!"
shepsquared
Erratic Aussie
- Location
- Melbourne, Australia
It was a fairly major plot point that he accidentally branded Martian Manhunter when he merged with the Ophidian and then managed to remove it later, demonstrating his new mastery of want and not wanting what he wants
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
Again, my understanding of the situation is that OL has no clue what he's doing and just went with the first good-guy-like action he could perceive. Mind you, that would make him seem more human than he's been in a while, but the lack of any hesitation in his thoughts is a bit problematic. Also, while I'm not as vehement as @killfr3nzy, Paul's been whinging and pissing over the topic of branding for forever, so him casually busting it out in defense of the fucking Spider Guild is veering back into "I have a pitiless matrix of cost-benefit analyzers instead of actual morality, by the way say hello to my ideological colleagues over in Transmetropolitan" OL again, which is always best kept hidden away from the narrative as much as possible. I know he's basically about as human as a Yozic demon at this point, but it's still a fact that impedes enjoyment of the story if paraded about too openly.
First of all, this was an assassin, not some bystander. OL has shown ruthlessness towords his enemies before and it's not like this is the worst thing he could do. Which ties into
Second, would you have preferred he brutally kill her? Letting an assassin, who took a shot at your client, go can't be done in this situation. Branding allows him to not kill the assassin out of hand, interrogate her for information later, as well as show off so others don't get the same idea. That's pretty important when protecting someone. They only need to succeed once so lowering the amount of attempts is pretty smart.
The fact of the matter is he gets more from this than tying her up, which would make him appear weak and vulnerable as he has to contain someone while also protecting his charge.
Frankly, I don't really get where you're coming from so maybe I'm misunderstanding something.
- Location
- Australia
Uh, first, OL is not, or at least certainly should not, be allied with the Spider Guild. What he is or should be doing, presuming he's following his own suboptimal plan, is using his 'bodyguard' position to make sure he has the best access available to information on what is going on and how to resolve this situation as he wishes (minimal suffering and death in the lead to a more peaceful star system).
So this 'assassin' isn't his enemy - they may be working at cross-purposes, but enemy is a far different category altogether.
...especially when OL himself notes that this is a very, very low-level attack that wouldn't have penetrated even one level of his active defences and, IIRC, not hurt the Spider Queen through her armour anyway.
So! The assassin isn't nearly dedicated or deadly enough to be a threat and therefore warrant OL switching to any sort of ruthless mode. Therefore, when he summoned her to his side, why not just knock her out and float her alongside him? After all, he hasn't used his slave to help defend against future attacks, or find out who organised this attempt or why they did or, as I said before, literally anything that Brand would be useful for - other than serving to make clear he is certainly the Beast of Okaara allied with the Spider Guild and making it much more likely for them to get their way and bodyrape sentient populations so that the Spiders can enjoy a natural, holistic birth instead of non cosmic-horror methods.
That and instantly crossing his own self-imposed moral event horizon, of course.
- Location
- Pittsburgh, PA
Again, I'm not as gung-ho on this as @killfr3nzy, but the sheer casualness with which OL brands this woman is jarring. He's been clutching his pearls every time the very concept occurred to him, and now he goes from 'what do I do' to 'brand a motherfucker' in like, two lines. It's not that I have any issue with branding & assimilation, it's just that he's been on his high horse about it all this time, and now he does this. Are we looking at the kind of situation I was afraid of, where he'll just shuck off his mask of sanity like an old coat now that there's no members of the Team to think less of him for it? Because unless he just goes ham and assimilates the entire assembly of warlords, that's going to be a bit grating for a while.
We're not really going to agree here. Whether the assassin would have been successful is irrelevant, it was still an attempt. That isn't the place or time for an interrogation so that's out. Even if she's knocked out he would have to maintain focus floating her. Others see that and not killing her and they'll get more confident, not something you want.
As for Spider Guild EVILZ, so is everyone else. What makes them so much worse than the raiders, killers, and slavers that make up the other factions?
Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.
- Location
- Australia
Sphagetti poooost! [or should I go MK style?]
Brand. "So hey there pretty lady, mind explaining to me and all my friends here who sent you to do this, and why?" *finger-guns*
And then everyone discovered that sending assassins against his client would get them in deeper shit than they are used to, at an entirely new speed.
It's not irrelevant - if she was a real threat maybe he would go into ruthless mode; because he had to. In this case she's a gnat, and he has literally every option available to him.
Oh of course, floating around an unconscious assassin takes so much energy or concentration, certainly more than micromanaging your new slave [ie, they're both nothing].
...uh, you read the WoZ posts and others, right? They're like xenomorphs and every wildly-unethical bureaucrat villain trope had a baby, and that baby decided that its entertainment time should be spent exceeding nazi SS experiments.
...
Brand. "So hey there pretty lady, mind explaining to me and all my friends here who sent you to do this, and why?" *finger-guns*
And then everyone discovered that sending assassins against his client would get them in deeper shit than they are used to, at an entirely new speed.
- Location
- Hampden Park
The Spider Guild is very large, and while all of those elements certainly exist it is sensible to bear in mind that it is unlikely that a society that big would be a monoculture.
- Location
- Australia
...just the only culture anyone's ever seen or heard about, in-reality or -out.
- Location
- texas
True, but say the thrilling adventure of a Spiders Guild merchant cornering the sugar market on Starhaven isn't really the type of thing that DC is known for writing about.
Chaoswind
Lord of nonsense
- Location
- Latin America
Paul has always been a HUGE utilitarian, the main reason he behaved as restrained as he did is because he was always worried about what his ingroup would think about his actions, Branding was a problem because being blaise about mind control wasn't going to win him friends in the Justice League or with Diana, people that got mind controlled. What the people of earth, the Justice League and his friends think has always been a part of his planning calculus (and we are told this MANY times) NOW Paul doesn't have to care about any of those, just his OWN morals... This means that casual mind rape is now an easy consideration, remember Paul only has reservations about PERMANENT solutions such as killing or permanent enslavement through Assimilation.
Other examples include OL branding Psimon, and Grayven Branding Dessad and a lesser Apokalytian New God (Dessad's brand is what brought Renegade to Darkseid's attention)
Science
If you're reading this, omae wa mo shindeiru.
- Location
- Killeen, TX
From the Wiki link:
Marital Status
Single
Occupation
Exotic Dancer, Freedom Fighter
After he removes the brand, turns out she's really into being dominated.
Sorry for the delay, had astronomy homework.
Last edited:
- Location
- Hampden Park
She's wearing slightly more than that.
It's really that she's been controlled by one owner or another for so much of her life that being controlled by the SI isn't as revolting to her as if would be to someone else.
Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
As Ambush Bug pointed out, comics like Spice and Wolf are favored by a niche demographic.
- Location
- texas
I was thinking about Spice and Wolf when I typed that, I admit.
Prince Charon
Just zis guy, you know?
... OK. The fact that he isn't going to treat her anywhere near as badly as many of them would should help a lot.
- Location
- Earth
Zoat had a lot of reasons why branding was not okay during that Martian terrorist action that could have resulted in many, many deaths. Now, an assassination attempt, and branding is used without hesitation.
It's an ongoing criticism—OL uses his powers and tools as is plot convenient, rather than in a way that has consistent logic.
It's an ongoing criticism—OL uses his powers and tools as is plot convenient, rather than in a way that has consistent logic.
Chaoswind
Lord of nonsense
- Location
- Latin America
I wonder what Megan would think of Paul casually branding martians, remember THIS Megan has stronger morals when it comes to mental manipulation than canon young justice Megan.
nmWarden
Webcomic Glutton
- Location
- Texas
I'm just going to save this piece of Author's Perspective for when we meet the "bad" Controllers. I mean if Maltus is currently a base for the Controllers (as opposed to the Oans), then the population aspect would be accurate too.
- Location
- Hampden Park
Total number of Controllers is less than thirty. This picture shows twenty four, while this one from much later shows twelve, maybe thirteen if there's one behind the light column. There are many more Maltusians who use the place as a home base, but they aren't much engaged in the Controllers actions.
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
Yeah, Paul might not be hot on branding, but it's something he can easily undo. He couldn't let her go, and he wouldn't kill her. It's a comprise that stabilizes his position in the short term without making him do something that either vastly increases the chances of violence, or kills people.
Remember Paul doesn't really hesitate anymore. He knows his boundaries and doesn't have to spend time comparing them against his set of possible actions to know what he is and isn't comfortable with. When the other option is killing people, and he isn't operating on earth with it's comic code of behavior over his head, he can act like this because it's the best way for there to be no fatalities.
Remember Paul doesn't really hesitate anymore. He knows his boundaries and doesn't have to spend time comparing them against his set of possible actions to know what he is and isn't comfortable with. When the other option is killing people, and he isn't operating on earth with it's comic code of behavior over his head, he can act like this because it's the best way for there to be no fatalities.
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
Except for convincing all the other would be assassins to pack it in and try some other contract. And establish areputation as someone not to be fucked with. Besides, he did disable and contain her, and he's planning to keep her nearby until the meeting is over when he will release her. In what way is this worse than floating her around in chains?
Note: I'm not arguing this based off of the character's morals, since this is a long-ass story, I don't really read it all that deeply, and I don't really care enough about this to go digging. This is entirely based off of my own opinion and outside logic, and if you're saying that there's internal inconsistencies in OL's actions not explained by character progression and differing circumstances, I'll bow to your superior knowledge of the text.
- Status