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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Really, because of Hell, a superhero would be morally justified in forcibly shutting down the Christian church, up to and including the murder of every single preacher as an accomplice to the damnation of probably dozens of souls each to eternal torment and eventual demonic corruption. In the long run, most Christian ministers will have done more damage to immortal souls than 90 percent of supervillains.

Of course, they wouldn't exactly still be a superhero afterward in the traditional sense. Even if they were morally justified, they'd still be committing genocide against one of the oldest and most influential organizations on the planet. The civilian Christians wouldn't be too hot on it either, and you might wind up making martyrs.

So hey, just kill them too. They knew what they were signing up for wherever they go, and that way you don't have to worry about a new church popping up and damning even more people. Just kill every single Christian, and the rest of the world can live on free from the threat of eternal damnation. Oh wait, there's a name for that. Rapture.

...Just thought I'd skip to the logical extreme of that discussion, since we were gonna get there eventually anyway.
 
Xavier Bronze said:
Really, because of Hell, a superhero would be morally justified in forcibly shutting down the Christian church, up to and including the murder of every single preacher..
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Maybe murdering countless people isn't exactly morally justifiable.
That being said, the utility value of this course of action would probably be quite high.

Also, debating the value of a holy war is something that we are doing for some reason.

Thanks Mr.Zoat!
 
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I think at this point we've all realized that yes, a DC universe that accepts Hell Blazer is farcically hostile to Christianity.

Since I actually am a Christian, I tend to be amused by the fact that this western series is orders of magnitude more hostile than say High School DxD.

Considering that DxD is a series made in a country that is still ambivalent about whether violent/leathal persecution of their own Christians a few centuries was a good call, and the series itself stars literal Satan spawn devils...

I guess it just goes to emphasize one of the old Stuff White People like posts...
White people like Religions that aren't their parent's.

In the DC setting, the being that calls himself "God", is not omnipotent, did not create the universe, and generally doesn't resemble the god of scripture at all.
The being is in fact, an evil monster.

I guess that in the context you could say that therefore Christianity is evil.

However, that would be idiotic.

I much more obvious answer would be that since this being who calls himself "God" doesn't resemble the God we worship in anything other that a superficial non-biblical artistic sense.
He isn't really God.

Why would Christians in the setting continue worshiping a being that is nothing like the being they thought they were worshiping just because he claims to be him?

The suggestion that Gabrial Actually raped Mary to produce Jesus.
...
I...
Well it's certainly something I can see a particularly hostile English atheist making up.
It doesn't remotely fit with scripture, but I guess that's not the point.

It seems less like a legitimate opinion and more like an attempt at bait than anything.

Sigh.

I need some sleep.
 
Krazyfan1 said:
...in DC, Lucifers not actually that bad, right?
imagine the public reaction when thats proven...
when "the devil made me do it" is proven to be false, and not supported by the devil himself....
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In Sandman he was VERY vocal about that, yes. His former subjects are often up some very sketchy stuff, though, if not as often as advertised. The kind of idiots who use that excuse would still have an out.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"Thank you. I guess.. the question goes to both of you. How do you excuse the bad things that your gods have done?"

"Specific acts, or the nature of the world in general?"

She hesitates. "Both, I guess?"
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For anyone curious, the Problem of Evil is formally known as theodicy, and goes quite a bit deeper than the chapter discusses. John Green gives a good overview:

Why does 'the devil' have a pony tattoo on his shoulder in the title card?
 
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Also for the days the earth was created thing, I know a different interpretation uses God's days instead of the human days
 
green said:
Also for the days the earth was created thing, I know a different interpretation uses God's days instead of the human days
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It's all trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. the majority of Christians worldwide are ok with parts of their holy book being parables or the human interpretation and/or embellishment of divine inspiration, and it's for the best.
 
Massgamer said:
Anyone curious about the effects this interview could have in general?

Like will this cause an upswing of people looking into pagan worship alongside the more mainstream religions?

Hope Hades is looking forward to that.:p
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More likely the Abrahamic faiths will get a significant boost in membership. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but there aren't exactly that many religions out there that promise as good a deal as heaven is supposed to be.
 
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Woooinion said:
Since I actually am a Christian, I tend to be amused by the fact that this western series is orders of magnitude more hostile than say High School DxD.
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Christianity just is'nt part of the japanes worldview. Hellraiser was written by someon who interacted with and came to hate the church. Though to be fair, it's not just Christianity that gets portrayed as poes law level of evil, pretty much any organization is going to be grinding up orphans out back.
 
I liked the update, but it is interesting that Paul seems to have been getting a lot of his information from John.
On the other hand - those events happened, they can't be simply ignored.. Even Zauriel's backstory - and Zauriel is a good angel! - includes something like, if I read it right, a quarter of all Angels desiring to side with Hell over Heaven. Not even Hell over Earth, but Hell over Heaven.

Now let's look at the commen-
*sees discussions of the Bible being simultaneously true/false, perfect/imperfect, literal/parable*

Let's start a totally new topic instead!
Paragon here is showing one of the things where I feel he has a major advantage in approach over Renegade - he's pursuing multiple simultaneous, unrelated goals without getting tripped up. Paul is able to, without getting irritated or distracted, start his anti-Nabu plans by killing Klarion (and simultaneously empowering John) and then go appear on a talk show to talk about something almost totally unrelated before he returns to the anti-Nabu plans.
I do wonder if he had a slight desire to 'prep' public opinion for the idea of supernatural entities that claim to be Perfect and Good but are in fact just pursuing their own agenda and using claims of perfection to justify ignoring human concerns or morality. He can't openly make the first public relations strike against Nabu, but if he can manage to strike first subtly he can get an advantage in the fallout of a successful plan (or the huge arguments and accusations likely to be thrown by Nabu in the wake of a failure. Although I suspect Nabu is more a fight-to-the-death sort, really.)
 
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Ophion said:
It's all trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. the majority of Christians worldwide are ok with parts of their holy book being parables or the human interpretation and/or embellishment of divine inspiration, and it's for the best.
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Who said I was talking about Christian's :p

My point was more on the point of interpretation. Remember the whisper game. A round peg being turned into a square peg is but a slight change in such a scenario. The Bible was originally written in Aramaic. How many people read it in the original language? How many priests do that? How many people read instead an interpretation? And then interpret that?
 
Oh I was wiki walking and found a minor DC character that I think Paul would love to pieces- Elphius Levi the techno-alchemist and computer mystic.

He scienced the ever loving hell out of magic until they were one and the same for him.

You want a possessing entity installed? No problem. Want a possessing entity uninstalled? No problem.

As to how Paul or Grayven could find out about him? Levi self publishes a magazine- Techno-Alchemical Journal.
 
Massgamer said:
Anyone curious about the effects this interview could have in general?

Like will this cause an upswing of people looking into pagan worship alongside the more mainstream religions?

Hope Hades is looking forward to that.:p
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This is all just Paul's attempt at subtly trying to impress Melinoé by expanding her dad's domain.

**Still holding out hope for Team Orange Nightmares:oops:
 
Eris probably would approve.
"I told you to get in a relationship... so you waffled and waited and then you decided, 'I really want to date Miss Nightmares, she seems swell.' This is why I like you, Paul."

Fun Nabu-facts from earlier chapters: Doctor Fate apparently does not get tired or sleep!
So my idea of having hosts in shifts would indeed be 12 hours a day for two people.
 
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