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Didn't OL's inner monologue at Roanoke mention laws against sorcery most foul?
Certainly. Laws copypasted from England from before the War of Independence that aren't really used, haven't been updated and that most law enforcement officials haven't heard of. They cover 'interactions with Demons and other malefic creatures'. They don't cover paper.
 
Certainly. Laws copypasted from England from before the War of Independence that aren't really used, haven't been updated and that most law enforcement officials haven't heard of. They cover 'interactions with Demons and other malefic creatures'. They don't cover paper.
But those laws will be getting updates in the near future, surely, and laws regarding magic paper will be on the table soon after it gets noticed by congressmen and senators. With inappropriate unrelated riders, of course.
 
Refusing to let authorities and experts from a "proper" magic-using society like Atlantis will not make Luthor seem good. Basically the way to play it here is for Luthor to be completely forthcoming with his factories since he is already profiting from selling the warded paper.
Um, the point was to put inspectors in the factories, if they want to look at the finished product it's not like they can't just buy a ream of paper. Lexcorp doesn't need to let random fishmen off the street into the factories just because they say they are a mage.
 
Certainly. Laws copypasted from England from before the War of Independence that aren't really used, haven't been updated and that most law enforcement officials haven't heard of. They cover 'interactions with Demons and other malefic creatures'. They don't cover paper.

How do they know that without an inspection of the factories with magic experts? This is an excellent opportunity for OL to interact with Luthor on where they are both best at, talking and politicking. You inadequately show the repercussions of such a massive change to the status quo.

Um, the point was to put inspectors in the factories, if they want to look at the finished product it's not like they can't just buy a ream of paper. Lexcorp doesn't need to let random fishmen off the street into the factories just because they say they are a mage.

Lexcorp can vet the inspectors for bias but Atlantis is the current newsworthy USA ally and magic-using polity. It's also just an example of a mostly neutral expert.
As for the end product that's just a part of it. The production must also be inspected for other issues as well such as worker safety, fire-hazards etc.
The inspection is mostly an excuse for character interaction between the interested parties but also a way to show the magic integration into everyday life that Zoat says is what OL cares about.
 
How do they know that without an inspection of the factories with magic experts?
I'm led to believe that isn't how law works. There is currently no agency -federal or local- with specific powers to regulate magic. Without a warrant from a judge LexCorp will not be letting just anyone poke around their factory, and even if they did they haven't broken an existing law.

President Horne might have enough time left to bring something intelligent forward before the end of his presidency, but he's the slow and steady sort.
This is an excellent opportunity for OL to interact with Luthor on where they are both best at, talking and politicking. You inadequately show the repercussions of such a massive change to the status quo.
For most people there are no repercussions. Warded paper effects a tiny minority of people, and it's debatable whether what they were doing was legal.
 
I would argue that scry wards are legally analogous to cryptography. The specific implementations are obviously different, but the intent and effect are largely similar -- prevent unauthorized access to private information. (It just happens to be the case that scry wards are capable of saying "the contents of and activities in a region of space" are "private information.")

I would fully expect groups like the EFF to come out arguing on LexCorp's side, for example.

EDIT: Huh. I wonder if you could embed a scry ward rune in the glass substrate of a hard drive and market it as a security product.
 
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Even the creation of a new factory should be subject to inspections from any number of regulatory bodies and his lawyers can do nothing otherwise the factory doesn't have permission to operate.
As for the legality, that makes it even more important for the FBI and CIA that they know what they are dealing with and they will surely be lobbying for the restriction of wards such as they do with cryptography and encoding IRL. Strange bedfellows but what can you do?
And you still try to have it both ways, magic wards are so widespread that every two-bit crook can get them to stymie a Power ring. They are also unimportant, no-one cares about the first true mass produced magic item by an American corporation. There are no laws against magic paper, why can't it be declared a strategic resource and be hoarded by the government?
Basically I think the wards in-story were and still are one of the most obvious diabolus-ex-machina you've ever used, and the way you refuse to have OL or any other directly deal with it is a huge weak point of the story.
 
More willpower = greater construct strength. And willpower can by used at much greater intensity than avarice with fewer mental problems.
? Willpower doesn't affect OL's constructs at all.
Okay, so, a week passed in the story between this and the previous update. Implications?
Nothing notable happened in that week and Zoat wants to get on to the Nabu stuff?
2) Maybe go after scry wards on a legal level? One could argue (maybe not very reasonably) that, being essentially a military stealth technology, one should require a license to use them. Or pay tax for their use. Actually, yeah, taxing scry wards might be a good revenue stream for the government.
It's analogous to cryptography, and there isn't a ban on that to my knowledge. Also, the American government doesn't use magic to any real degree, and properly trained mages are good enough to get past the weak wards LexCorp uses. The scry wards only significantly annoy 4 people on the planet, all of them Lanterns who have other ways to get around them I doubt many people care at this point.
He (Paul) is not under tech sharing prohibition, and, as a member of Orange Lantern corps should qualify as a member of a highly (more so than Thanagar itself, really) advanced civilization.
The Orange Lantern Corps currently consists of a single person, and I doubt anyone outside of the SI's social circle has even heard of it (Guy may have told the Guardians that the SI plans to make an OLC, but that's about it). The OLC doesn't have any weight behind its name right now.
Just to fuck with him.
No, she trying to do that in other ways.
Plastic Man. The purpose of the exercise was to make people work with those who's preferred way of operating is different from their own.
This sounds hilarious.
Mostly I'm hoping that the Guardians can show why they are so high up on the cosmic civilization scale, they notice that the Green Lanters on Earth are stumped by these wards and give a firmware upgrade to their rings. Then Guy or Hal can share or not with OL.
Power rings have plenty of ways of getting around scry wards. It's just not as convenient as using the basic scan. It's like putting a latch on a door: you can't really get in stealthily any more and is more inconvenient than just opening the door, but it doesn't warrant the President's personal attention.

Any active scans get past scry wards, which was shown in this update. It in no way stops any and all scans, just the most basic and convenient.
In the hypothetical scenario presented, the suspicion is demon summoning, not warding. Possibly demon summoning hidden by the warding.
We don't give warrants out for possession of child porn if a person uses cryptography or puts locks on their doors, and nor should we.
Then their bodies come together and its Ms Thal who gets knocked back.
It's
 
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I would argue that scry wards are legally analogous to cryptography. The specific implementations are obviously different, but the intent and effect are largely similar -- prevent unauthorized access to private information. (It just happens to be the case that scry wards are capable of saying "the contents of and activities in a region of space" are "private information.")

I would fully expect groups like the EFF to come out arguing on LexCorp's side, for example.

EDIT: Huh. I wonder if you could embed a scry ward rune in the glass substrate of a hard drive and market it as a security product.
They are also similar to radiation shielding, and bulletproof vests, and they might have side effects.
I'm led to believe that isn't how law works. There is currently no agency -federal or local- with specific powers to regulate magic. Without a warrant from a judge LexCorp will not be letting just anyone poke around their factory, and even if they did they haven't broken an existing law.

President Horne might have enough time left to bring something intelligent forward before the end of his presidency, but he's the slow and steady sort.

For most people there are no repercussions. Warded paper effects a tiny minority of people, and it's debatable whether what they were doing was legal.
I'd expect for many politicians to be working on crearing such a regulatory commision. kn the interim... EPA could cover this, maybe? Not really familiar with USA system, but, well, it's magic, and I refer you to ghostbusters foe how this would go.

Actually... If LexCorp is officially making magic wards... The following comissions would be interested in talking to them:
1) Federal Trade Comission, to ensure that this isn't fraud. Because to advertise the things as magic wards, Lex would have to prove that they are, kn fact, magic wards.
2) EPA. Because they have to know if magic wards produce some kind of pollution during manufacture, and if they have to be disposed of in some specific ways (so you don't end up with garbage dumps spontaneously gaining sentience and going on rampages).
3) National Labor Law Comission. There are laws against discrimination based on religion. At least some USA religions are against magic, and at least some LexCorp employees would likely be of those religions. If Lexcorp logos now have wards in them... Well, I think you see a potential problem, don't you?

Basically, this is EXTEMELY open to lawsuits of all kinds.
 
Basically I think the wards in-story were and still are one of the most obvious diabolus-ex-machina you've ever used, and the way you refuse to have OL or any other directly deal with it is a huge weak point of the story.
He doesn't for the same reason I wouldn't -- it's overall a good thing for humanity, and the fact that it's personally inconvenient for him isn't worth upsetting things. Furthermore, letting the villains BELIEVE they have one up on him with it means he's not escalating the arms race: as long as he allows these basic wards to block his basic scan, he isn't pushing it further underground and making a bigger threat that maybe he CAN'T deal with.
 
It's analogous to cryptography, and there isn't a ban on that to my knowledge.
There is, actually. That analogy is actually VERY deep and I chose it for a reason. There's quite a bit of history here, and the government used to try to fight against cryptography stronger than what they could defeat themselves. Ever seen export restrictions on software? That's what those are about.
 
He doesn't for the same reason I wouldn't -- it's overall a good thing for humanity, and the fact that it's personally inconvenient for him isn't worth upsetting things. Furthermore, letting the villains BELIEVE they have one up on him with it means he's not escalating the arms race: as long as he allows these basic wards to block his basic scan, he isn't pushing it further underground and making a bigger threat that maybe he CAN'T deal with.

The way the wards have been used in story is as a one-stop shop for neutralizing the arguably strongest point of a power ring, it's information gathering capacity. I agree that limiting that scope was needed in a low-power world such as Earth 16 but Zoat then proceeded to balloon those capabilities while pointedly having OL be completely blind, against prior characterization such as Psimon and Klarion's magic dust. Even the famed Quintessence waveform scan was nerfed to obliviousness so that OL could keep being sweethearts with Luthor.
 
Thank you, corrected.
Even the creation of a new factory should be subject to inspections from any number of regulatory bodies and his lawyers can do nothing otherwise the factory doesn't have permission to operate.
The factory was inspected when it was built, certainly. They don't refer every design they create with the factory to inspectors.
As for the legality, that makes it even more important for the FBI and CIA that they know what they are dealing with and they will surely be lobbying for the restriction of wards such as they do with cryptography and encoding IRL. Strange bedfellows but what can you do?
Yes, they probably will. And Luthor and allies will fight it on the grounds that the FBI and CIA shouldn't just be able to look at whatever they like where magic is concerned any more than they can where cryptography is concerned.
And you still try to have it both ways, magic wards are so widespread that every two-bit crook can get them to stymie a Power ring.
No, plenty of two-bit crooks can't get access. Kobra is a worldwide paramilitary cult. Most other examples are connected to more sophisticated villains. Actual two-bit types go down so easily against a competent Lantern is isn't worth me showing the fight.
They are also unimportant, no-one cares about the first true mass produced magic item by an American corporation.
Technically, they're just making paper. The design printed on it just makes it very likely that they'll pick up enough magic from their local environment to gain a very low level magic effect.
There are no laws against magic paper, why can't it be declared a strategic resource and be hoarded by the government?
Luthor would probably ba happy to make the government just as much as it wanted.
 
Thinking more about it, I am fairly sure that the government really should start a certification program of some kind. Or at least could. I mean, scry wards are a form of persistent protective magic. It's a mix between medicine, weapons/protective gear and dangerous chemicals.
The known production facilities for the wards should've been already inspected by the government with Atlantean experts to make sure that Luthor isn't distributing demon summoning designs, extra taxes on this new product would also be levied by the government and every other company in LexCorps weight range would have their own ward production so they wouldn't be vulnerable to any backdoors in the design.
You seem entirely ignorant of the basic principle of American Law. You are arguing that the government should be doing this and doing that already, like the wards are something bad. But that is not how it works. You are operating under the assumption that this "ward thing" automatically requires and acquires government oversight. Not so. It there is no law against it, then it is perfectly legal. And before the government could or should even try getting involved, there needs to be a pertinent enabling law. And if you think ad hock adding more taxes on stuff the gov't does not like on a whim out of the blue is something the they are allowed to do, you are in la la land. the stuff Lez Luthor sells would be covered by the generic sales tax. Adding a specific ward tax means you are the idiot senator that looses the election, because this is stuff that is supposed to keep magic users from becoming peeping toms into your personal space. It would backfire like having a specific tax on spyware blockers or email encryption would. That is, make you an look like unelectable fascist twit.

...
Ok, I was going to quote some more stuff, but there is getting to be to much.
What are you trying do do here. Because right now it look like you are advocating punitive and selective action against Lex Luthor as payback for the Ward proliferation. Like sending in inspectors to the factories to check for demon summoning wards. Why? you could examine his mass produced wards off the line to see that is not the case. And where is your reasonable cause and good faith belief here, that both wards and demon summoning are both magic? This is as asinine as sending nuclear weapons inspectors to a car factory because they are both technology.

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You can't have it both ways, Luthor has mass-production scale facilities for ward-encrusted paper sheets or he doesn't.
This is you talking nonsense. Having it both ways is both common and sensible. It is called "Argument in the Alternative." In this case, Luthor would argue that since the gov't has not gotten around to making or assigning a regulatory oversight body for magic, and legislatively passed relevant enabling laws, whether it was a ward or not is irrelevant, and the applicable laws would be those concerning paper, and corporate logo trademark law, of which there is nothing offending, and the fact you are not bothering other specialty paper makers undermines their argument. But even if the United States had authority over the ward issue, since the purpose of the wards is to protect the already legally recognized right to privacy and protection against unwarranted search, courts have already made relevant precedent by their rulings regarding other innovations to protect citizens from being spied upon.

There is also the problem of spectral evidence. The last time magic was in the courts, cases were decided by testimony that was pretty much made up nonexistent bullshit. Nowadays, the courts like to verify the non made up nature of assertions you are asking them to take as face value. This is something where having a actual existing framework for dealing with magic will help. You are putting the cart before the horse.

And no, the US does not just hand over branches of the executive department to non democratic foreign governments, and assuming that is any kind of solution is naive.
 
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Personally, I expect someone to be smart enough and incorporate scry wards into updated money design af some point, thus giving all their citizens scry protection.
 
Personally, I expect someone to be smart enough and incorporate scry wards into updated money design af some point, thus giving all their citizens scry protection.

more like scrying wards. That way big brother will have his eyes on you legaly

And they can use this as the excuse

Magic runes on currency makes sense as an anti-counterfeiting measure as well.
 
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Personally, I expect someone to be smart enough and incorporate scry wards into updated money design af some point, thus giving all their citizens scry protection.
That... is actually a pretty good anti-counterfeiting measure. If the ward designs make the bills absorb magic, that would be one more hallmark of a genuine bill. Especially of you could make aura scanners sensitive enough that a counterfeit bill's aura would read differently due to differences in manufacture.
 
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That... is actually a pretty good anti-counterfeiting measure. If the ward designs make the bills absorb magic, that would be one more hallmark of a genuine bill. Especially of you could make aura scanners sensitive enough that a counterfeit bill's aura would read differently due to differences in manufacture.
Or use a very specific environment in the mint which causes the money to pick up a genuine money type aura. Potentially even using conceptual & sympathetic bullshit to make it depend on the authority of the mint to print money to make that specific aura, rather than just an aura with a given set of properties which only (hah!) means that counterfeiters may just need to wait long enough for the money to pick up a charge of magic using its designs..
 
You seem entirely ignorant of the basic principle of American Law.
I'm not an American and have no training in Law, that might be it.

My basic assumption is that due to how new Magic is in the public consciousness extreme attention will be given to any such big-scale workings. I'm arguing that a new enterprise that combines magic with anything mundane will also be under attention from varied interested parties which the government is only one of. Any inspection will happen as it does in other factories that deal with chemicals along with worker rights etc.

What are you trying do do here. Because right now it look like you are advocating punitive and selective action against Lex Luthor as payback for the Ward proliferation. Like sending in inspectors to the factories to check for demon summoning wards Why? you could examing his mass produced wards off the line to see that is not the case. And where is your reasonable cause and good faith belief here, that both wards and demon summoning are both magic? This is as asinine as sending nuclear weapons inspectors to a car factory because they are both technology.
Luthor has nothing to fear from any inspection, I'm 100% certain that his factories follow every letter of the law. The government is the one that has to be seen approving this procedure just because it holds the current attention of the public and it's desire for security. A panel of magic experts basically saying "Yes, this is all above counter and they work". A popularity win for both LexCorp and the politician that helps. It also assuages the public that this is not the "Devils Work" in more conservative places.


And no, the US does not just hand over branches of the executive department to non democratic foreign governments, and assuming that is any kind of solution is naive.
As for this, Atlantean experts were just a first thought about a publicly recognized magic "authority" and pretty topical with forming trade agreements with Atlantis.
 
Personally, I expect someone to be smart enough and incorporate scry wards into updated money design af some point, thus giving all their citizens scry protection.
Unless they put considerable effort into it, that would just protect the money. And weakly at that.
As for this, Atlantean experts were just a first thought about a publicly recognized magic "authority" and pretty topical with forming trade agreements with Atlantis.
Actually, the first person they'd reach out to would be the American magic using superhero Giovanni Zatara. For some reason they're having trouble getting hold of him.
 
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