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So that's how Paul becomes a Supervillain. While Grayven's "ask forgiveness instead of permission, if by 'forgiveness' you mean: 'explain how they're idiots for complaining about your approach'" strategy is gonna end up with him taking down The Light once and for all, and society advancing just to spite his smug face, as well him getting his own Superhero Team and being crowned King of Britain.
 
No, Yog's idea is sound. Humanity doesn't really have contact with any races that use Bleed tech. Currently, everyone going along with using the new generator is basing their knowledge off of what one guy says. He's pretty respected for being honest and there's no specofic reason to doubt him, but he's not a physicist and only roughly understands the technology. Who's to say that there isn't some side effect that OL doesn't know about?

It's fairly easy to confirm that what OL has said is true and that he isn't missing something by just asking the Green Lantern's and the two resident Thanagarians, but until then I could see some legitimate complaints about not knowing the drawbacks of the technology fully.
Basically this. Paul doesn't know how this works. Earth (unless Sivana Senior decides to republish some of his paper) doesn't have access to information explaining how the generators work. Hawks likely don't know how they work (they are policemen, not physicists). Green Lanterns have databases, but might not be allowed to talk, and those databases might not have anything beyond schematics.

To use FDA and medicine analogy. Let's say there's a new drug being peddled in Kongo. Red Cross and other international organizations report that it cures AIDS in 100% cases. At first, nothing is known about how it's made or how it works. For all chemical analysis it's a piece of red sugar. Then, it's discovered that the medicine is a blood of virgin black she-goat obtained under a fool moon with an obsidian knife (but it only works if people from one specific tribe do it). At which point do you think it'll become FDA approved?

See you're missing the big picture. It doesn't matter if this is factually correct, what matters is that the big energy companies don't want it to happen, so they'll do as they always do and bribe the right people and spend their political capital so that all that scary alien tech is taken out of the market. If the government worked on facts and common sense, we wouldn't be where we are today.

If things go realistically at all, Paul is quickly going to learn what a mistake it was to try and fight such a massive industry without having created his own political and economic power base, there's a reason all those brillant inventions haven't taken ground and we wants the watsonian answer rather than that doylist "cause comics book logic" than that answer is gonna be that the big corps have an even tighter grip on the market than in real life.

So yeah let's just watch as this thing get boggled into lawsuit after lawsuit and Paul gets more and more frustrated at the bullshit that is the current system.
See, here is where I disagree with you on several points:
1) You are only thinking in terms of USA. In many countries energy is an entirely or mostly governmental thing. Those countries would be all for more cheap energy, and USA wouldn't be able to compete with them if they deny it to themselves.
2) All the other industries, specifically all the industries dependent on energy (metallurgy, manufacturing, IT, recycling, material processing) will lobby in favor of the new energy.
 
I actually read it as "even if I don't know how this works, other people do, and they consider it safe, in overwhelming numbers". So less "blood of a virgin black she-goat" and more "cold fusion". Yeah, it's possible that it's using ice-9 on the inside, but given that multiple advanced alien civilizations with plenty of paranoia think it's safe, have in the past claimed that it was impossible for it to fail, and have been using it for millennia without a single failure, well...
 
1) You are only thinking in terms of USA. In many countries energy is an entirely or mostly governmental thing. Those countries would be all for more cheap energy, and USA wouldn't be able to compete with them if they deny it to themselves.
And my point was about the US. Which is where the bleed generator is at.
2) All the other industries, specifically all the industries dependent on energy (metallurgy, manufacturing, IT, recycling, material processing) will lobby in favor of the new energy.
Why would they? As long as their competitors get the same cost it won't change much for them. And if that was how it worked nuclear would be a lot more prevalent right now.
 
metagene bomb? what series was this in?

Invasion! as I mentioned- Dominators, Khunds, Daxamites, Thanagarians, Warlords of Okaara, Citadelians, Psions, Daxamites, and Gil'Dishpan invaded Earth.

The Dominators figured out the metagene, and built a bomb to kill every single human with the metagene, the heroes couldn't stop it, but reversed it- So instead of killing every potential metahuman, it activated a whole bunch of potential metahumans, including the founder of Power Company Josiah Power who hulked out in the middle of the court room, the bomb also turned Fire from the "joke character that breathes fire" to "green female human torch who actually turns into green fire, since objects have gone through her in her fiery form."

It was actually called the gene bomb though.

In the X-Men parody of Invasion!, the guys of the X-Men stop the aliens from invading Australia, and when they were foiled they tried to use their Jean Bomb that destroys all ties including material and emotional. in case it needs be said, yes, a clone of Jean Grey was the basis of the Jean Bomb.

Oh yes, and Invasion! is the reason why the United Planets of the Legion of Superheroes' 30th century exists.

Lar Gand/Mon-El/M'onel/Valor took people mutated by the Dominators and helped them colonize planets to act as buffers to discourage further invasion.

These buffer planets include-

The Bismollions who can eat anything

The magnetic Braalians

The duplicating Carggites

The pheromone producing Geequoans

The budding Janusians

The infectious Somahturians

The cryokinetic Tharrians

The "turn to stone when they sleep" Zwenians

And the "almost always twins" Winathians which isn't much of an impressive superpower

Also a few planets that aren't known for having native superpowers, so perhaps their powers died out thanks to genetic drift or something.

The psychics of Titan might also be one of these buffer worlds, but in another iteration they're actually psychic human aliens who colonized Titan with the permission of G'emm
 
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No, Yog's idea is sound. Humanity doesn't really have contact with any races that use Bleed tech. Currently, everyone going along with using the new generator is basing their knowledge off of what one guy says. He's pretty respected for being honest and there's no specofic reason to doubt him, but he's not a physicist and only roughly understands the technology. Who's to say that there isn't some side effect that OL doesn't know about?

It's fairly easy to confirm that what OL has said is true and that he isn't missing something by just asking the Green Lantern's and the two resident Thanagarians, but until then I could see some legitimate complaints about not knowing the drawbacks of the technology fully.
Hawkman knew what OL was stalking about, so if there were any serious concerns about Bleed tech he would have brought it up. Especially since he'd have told his superiors that humans were moving onto bleed-tech and they'd be able to respond if the thought it was neccessary..
 
3) Some regulatory body putting a stop on widespread use of bleed membrane instability generators until and unless their approved experts (ie human mainstream scientists) understand how they work. And before anyone cries foul, that's actually quite reasonable, because they literally can't predict consequences or know side-effects of their use. For all they know, the generators poke Azathoth in his sleep, and harvest the energy of him turning in his prime chaos bed or something. Use enough of them, and Azathoth wakes up - poof, no more universe.


While reasonable in an earthcentric view, as pointed out in the episode, it becomes a lot less reasonable when you account for the thousands (millions? billions?) of other more advanced civs out there, many of whom use it. If anyone was going to find out the generator is poking azathoth in his sleep, the odds of it being the humans (and not super-genius humans) either, is... ridiculously small. If they want to be safe about it, getting mainstream scientists to look at it is useless. Get some non-villainous super geniuses to look at it. Hell, ask OL to grab some peer-reviewed papers on it from a more advanced civilization. If they don't trust OL, they could just as well ask any of the other space capable hero's to do it. Except maybe the GLs, cause the guardians are dicks.

Not using something that has been vetted as safe by a large number of significantly more advanced civilizations, because it might be unsafe... is... dumb. Especially when lack of power and resources is a rather growing problem. It's like one of those lost tribes being given fire, and despite it's use world wide, deciding it's too dangerous to use until they can figure out the exact physics of how it works, they prefer to freeze to death every winter. It's either superstition (and not the good kind), or a case of extreme egotism (They might be more advanced, but WE know better).

Of course, odds are the electric and oil industry will rather throw millions of dollars at bribes (sorry, "lobbies") to push exactly that kind of dumb politics through, rather than spend those millions on research.
 
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I know you said you had plans of giving nabu a synthetic body. did you already make preparations for that or what?

NOT gonna happen.like under ANY circumstances short of using brute-force to rip his soul outta that helmet. Nabu REFUSED to free his latest hostage under any circumstances short of death, and threw a infantile temper tantrum and teleported out of the meeting within a minute of Paul OFFERING to attempt to find him a MORAL option.

you can be generous, and interpret this refusal as due to fear/paranoia about a chaotic individual disguising a murder attempt as a "tragically failed transfer", or be cynical and assume he's psychically torturing/feeding off his Host's soul, to go with the whole parasite thing.

hey, NICE/MORAL individuals don't destroy a family by body-jacking a loving father, leaving his teenage daughter with ZERO living family, and ZERO support outside her network of friends. ill honestly be SURPRISED if Zatara ISNT severely traumatised by this even if nabu IS just using him as a meatsuit, and that's a best-case scenario that DOESN'T involve him being subjected to complete sensory deprivation....
 
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Man, I was actually pretty hyped up by the chapter repeating. I honestly thought it was intentional at first, as a sort of "They activate the bleed generator and something goes wrong." kind of thing.

Really sad to see that it was just a mistake.
 
Why would they? As long as their competitors get the same cost it won't change much for them. And if that was how it worked nuclear would be a lot more prevalent right now.
I'd think that slashing one of the larger business expenses to pretty much nothing, thus allowing one to manufacture more, and cheaper, would be something they'd want. Quick google leads me to a page claiming 35% of manufacturing expenses of aluminum is energy. Cutting manufacturing costs by a third? That's a lot.
 
And my point was about the US. Which is where the bleed generator is at.

Yeah, but it's very clear in-universe that OL could have made this offer in Britain (Boris Johnson is at the press conference and has previously worked with him to get the Dolmen Gates set up in London), China, Kahndaq, probably Rhelasia/Korea, maybe Russia. You know, all those places where he is on good terms with the government. And if the US is refusing to advance when all those other countries don't? Well, I guess USA isn't a world superpower any more. That's something they'll totally let happen for a few billionaires and their lobbyists.

Why would they? As long as their competitors get the same cost it won't change much for them. And if that was how it worked nuclear would be a lot more prevalent right now.

That's not how economics works at all.
 
I'd think that slashing one of the larger business expenses to pretty much nothing, thus allowing one to manufacture more, and cheaper, would be something they'd want. Quick google leads me to a page claiming 35% of manufacturing expenses of aluminum is energy. Cutting manufacturing costs by a third? That's a lot.
And it'd be great if they get it, but they're not gonna use their political capital to fight the energy conglomerate in an a battle they have little chance of winning.
Yeah, but it's very clear in-universe that OL could have made this offer in Britain (Boris Johnson is at the press conference and has previously worked with him to get the Dolmen Gates set up in London), China, Kahndaq, probably Rhelasia/Korea, maybe Russia. You know, all those places where he is on good terms with the government. And if the US is refusing to advance when all those other countries don't? Well, I guess USA isn't a world superpower any more. That's something they'll totally let happen for a few billionaires and their lobbyists.
And he should have made this offer to europeans countries that are trying to go green, that would have forced the american companies to go in a similar way to keep a stronger global presence or they could push for a stronger tariffs and things like that which would keep them afloat for a while, as they slowly invest into alternative energy sources.
That's not how economics works at all.
Current life examples would disagree with you, sure if one of them does it the rest will have to follow, but as things are they could just lobby for the proper laws so that they don't get screwed over. It's not exactly hard to have a 'concerned politician' which just want to study the stuff for 'a few years' to make sure it's safe.
 
NOT gonna happen.like under ANY circumstances short of using brute-force to rip his soul outta that helmet. Nabu REFUSED to free his latest hostage under any circumstances short of death, and threw a infantile temper tantrum and teleported out of the meeting within a minute of Paul OFFERING to attempt to find him a MORAL option.

Not that I'm a fan of Nabu, but are you aware that some, as evidenced by his paternal response to the suggestion that Zatanna might be considered for League membership in the cartoon, believe that Dr Fate is not in fact not just a possession, but integration?

Which, if that were true, then Paul's offer of a golem body was a polite request from Paul to commit suicide.

Or maybe after being a Lord of Order for millenia (billions of years in the comics) have left him a paranoid control freak.
 
Not that I'm a fan of Nabu, but are you aware that some, as evidenced by his paternal response to the suggestion that Zatanna might be considered for League membership in the cartoon, believe that Dr Fate is not in fact not just a possession, but integration?

Which, if that were true, then Paul's offer of a golem body was a polite request from Paul to commit suicide.

Or maybe after being a Lord of Order for millenia (billions of years in the comics) have left him a paranoid control freak.
But Dr Fate isn't integration. We see it from Kid FLash's point of view - he's just stuck watching. And if he was an integration, he'd probably have said something to his daughter, told his manager and so on instead of letting Giovanni flat out vanish.
 
Not that I'm a fan of Nabu, but are you aware that some, as evidenced by his paternal response to the suggestion that Zatanna might be considered for League membership in the cartoon, believe that Dr Fate is not in fact not just a possession, but integration?

Which, if that were true, then Paul's offer of a golem body was a polite request from Paul to commit suicide.

Or maybe after being a Lord of Order for millenia (billions of years in the comics) have left him a paranoid control freak.

But Dr Fate isn't integration. We see it from Kid FLash's point of view - he's just stuck watching. And if he was an integration, he'd probably have said something to his daughter, told his manager and so on instead of letting Giovanni flat out vanish.

the core issue is, Depending on your cannon/universe, Dr Fate IS supposed to be a Gestalt. its just that in almost ALL of these parallels, Nabu is a egocentric control freak who WANTS to be in charge, no matter what the cost is to his "partner" OR to Fate's actual power/effectiveness. you could argue that Nabu-16 snapped after years of sensory deprivation on a shelf, but given that the REASON for him being dumped was him being busted for systematically sabotaging his previous "partner"'s life to make him easier to manipulate/control....
 
STAR Labs actually does a pretty good job most of the time. It's just that it only comes to our attention when things go wrong.
I kinda need you to give some evidence in support of that statement. STAR Labs mandate is not to be SCP or Warehouse 13, where stuff gets tossed in a vault and forgotten about. It is to examine Alien technology and supervillian gadgets confiscated from crimes, and reverse engineer them to advance the common body of human knowledge so the newly discovered scientific principles can be applied to the betterment of the human condition. So..., in what ways have what was entrusted to them come to improve things?

I mean last time STARS Labs showed up in an episode, people in this thread were wondering if they were intentionally stalling, sandbagging, and non performing to keep any progress from happening. OL should want to make a functional version of STAR Labs not because the rare times things go wrong, but they do not seem to actually be having any successes worthy of note at all.

It's fairly easy to confirm that what OL has said is true and that he isn't missing something by just asking the Green Lantern's and the two resident Thanagarians, but until then I could see some legitimate complaints about not knowing the drawbacks of the technology fully.
Or hire one of the 2 legitimate Silvana children. Their father independently developed a Bleed Torsion Generator, and they acted familiar enough with. And are super geniuses anyway. Have them look at OL's blueprint of the Generator and explain what bit does what and the underlying principles. Or Kord; he probably knows a lot more than OL, at an idea. But Lois did not ask the scientist present, she asked the Superhero who is financing and acting as the public face. And whose response the thread kind of is over reacting to.

But Yog did not ask for reputable corroboration as to its efficacy and safety by reputable members of the Justice League or others knowledgeable in intergalactic matters. Or even "let's pause this until humans can understand it themselves," since humans already do understand this. He asked for "Mainstream Scientists," which opens up the whole "No True Scotsman" problem and opens up the whole issue to corruption because of stuff like the following:

See you're missing the big picture. It doesn't matter if this is factually correct, what matters is that the big energy companies don't want it to happen, so they'll do as they always do and bribe the right people and spend their political capital so that all that scary alien tech is taken out of the market. If the government worked on facts and common sense, we wouldn't be where we are today.
And we have the issue we have with Climate Change now, where some rich, self interested people try to muddy the waters by picking and choosing what scientists to listen to, and trying to only let those ones voice matter.

To use FDA and medicine analogy. Let's say there's a new drug being peddled in Kongo. Red Cross and other international organizations report that it cures AIDS in 100% cases. At first, nothing is known about how it's made or how it works. For all chemical analysis it's a piece of red sugar. Then, it's discovered that the medicine is a blood of virgin black she-goat obtained under a fool moon with an obsidian knife (but it only works if people from one specific tribe do it). At which point do you think it'll become FDA approved?
Um, what? That is terrible reasoning, and an even worse analogy. This would not be some newly discovered tribe in the Congo, a better example would OL found a book of Eastern Medicine that included a "Increase your Stamina and Sexual Potency" Regimen, that actually worked if you followed all the steps, and wanted to introduce this to the US, because increased Stamina makes people more productive and feel better in their everyday life. Now this regimen is used by multiple countries such as China, Korea, Japan, etc. many of the Asian countries, and has been around for over a thousand years. People who have been there (Green Lanterns) or are from there (Thanagarians) have heard about it, and it is commonly used overseas. OL is disappointed that Red Bull, 5-Hour Energy, and the rest of Big Caffeine and the Ginkgo Biloba Consortium™ just sitting on their Laurels and not making any new stamina advances, just slightly better ways to concentrate caffeine, and want to light a fire under their butt.

You don't need to make everyone understand it to prove it works, just measure the results and apply statistics. Which is how medicine companies actually get stuff certified. How it works matter a lot less. Which is why there are medicines on the market today that we do NOT know how they work, and are just making educated guesses from observable data. There is no reason not to do the same thing with this technology, because the alternative is pretending the reality of this being proven technology in use by the wider universe for longer then we have been a nation is somehow irrelevant.

also why include, "but it only works if people from one specific tribe do it," at all? One of the nice things about science is the concept of reproducibility. Someone publishes a methodology, and you can do the same thing and get the same result. You have a blueprint, and following it gets you a power generator, just like it says. You do not need to understand the underlying principles to operate it and make it work. This is true for paper airplanes and kites, as well as the computers and smart phones we use everyday. You know the specific inner workings about how they operate (Electronics and programming and stuff) as you would this newfangled Bleed power generation technology.

Why would they? As long as their competitors get the same cost it won't change much for them. And if that was how it worked nuclear would be a lot more prevalent right now.
Because the electricity is a cost they are paying for now. If energy becomes cheaper the difference in the costs they are paying will become profit. And profit they would, by the simple method of lowering costs of the finished product to reflect lower energy costs, but not actually as much as the actual energy savings.
 
But Dr Fate isn't integration. We see it from Kid FLash's point of view - he's just stuck watching. And if he was an integration, he'd probably have said something to his daughter, told his manager and so on instead of letting Giovanni flat out vanish.

And if Zatarra is just a prisoner in his own body, then Dr Fate's response to the idea of promoting Zatanna to the league was "Hell to the no!" because?

Nabu has no reason to have any emotions towards Zatanna at all, yet Dr Fate obviously does.

Dr Fate even gets called out on being emotional on the issue in character in the scene.
 
And if Zatarra is just a prisoner in his own body, then Dr Fate's response to the idea of promoting Zatanna to the league was "Hell to the no!" because?

Nabu has no reason to have any emotions towards Zatanna at all, yet Dr Fate obviously does.

Dr Fate even gets called out on being emotional on the issue in character in the scene.
or might have been Giovanni's wish, as it is shown he can talk to nabu, and nabu probabaly didn't care wether zatanna was in the league or not, and said what geovanni wanted
 
or might have been Giovanni's wish, as it is shown he can talk to nabu, and nabu probabaly didn't care wether zatanna was in the league or not, and said what geovanni wanted

And that's an interpretation which suggests to me you didn't watch that episode.

If Nabu didn't care then why the hell was he visibly upset about it?
 
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I think it'd be pretty amusing if the Energy Corps decide to spend their political capital to block OL... which then causes Paul to buy himself some politicians.

"Enough of this nonsense. If I have to bribe people into supporting their own best interest, that's what I'll do. It's not like I'm using these shiny rocks for anything, anyway."
 
I think it'd be pretty amusing if the Energy Corps decide to spend their political capital to block OL... which then causes Paul to buy himself some politicians.

"Enough of this nonsense. If I have to bribe people into supporting their own best interest, that's what I'll do. It's not like I'm using these shiny rocks for anything, anyway."
That's what I was thinking. If they want to try to bury his plans with money, he's got a bigger shovel. And the number of Lex Luthor's lawyer.

Also his money and power ring means that he can just skip right over all the parts where innovation is usually stifled. And squish any supervillains who try to interfere, too.
 
That's what I was thinking. If they want to try to bury his plans with money, he's got a bigger shovel. And the number of Lex Luthor's lawyer.

Also his money and power ring means that he can just skip right over all the parts where innovation is usually stifled. And squish any supervillains who try to interfere, too.
Not to mention the ability to peer into a CEO's soul and give them what they really want. Using bad powers for good purposes might as well be a tagline for this fic, and few things hit the 'bad' button quite as strongly as pulling the Serpent in the Garden bit.
 
I think it'd be pretty amusing if the Energy Corps decide to spend their political capital to block OL... which then causes Paul to buy himself some politicians.

"Enough of this nonsense. If I have to bribe people into supporting their own best interest, that's what I'll do. It's not like I'm using these shiny rocks for anything, anyway."
If I were in OL's shoes and this ended up happening, I'd probably make sure I'm not giving money to the politicians who were happy to block human progress. In fact I might end up exposing them, making sure they can't just bury the story, and support other politicians.
 
If I were in OL's shoes and this ended up happening, I'd probably make sure I'm not giving money to the politicians who were happy to block human progress. In fact I might end up exposing them, making sure they can't just bury the story, and support other politicians.

honestly, I"D be severely tempted to go on a Dirty Laundry-Airing spree GLOBALLY regardless of wether or not they were aggravating me,in Paul's shoes.
it'd be a FASCINATING experiment! currently, evolutionary pressure selects successful politicians by their ability (primarially/in general, anyway) to lie convincingly.

imagine what the world'd be like after 60-120 years of them desperately avoiding ANY immoral acts out of basic survival/self-interest,
knowing that there was someone chomping at the bit to END the careers of anyone who's less than a paragon of virtue...
 
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