Knightfall
Nui lover and Slaaneshi
- Location
- New York, New York
He should.
With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
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BlackLantern2814
Hello darkness my old friend.
- Location
- Earth
Weird. I was so sure he did. Oh well.
But wasn't that Paragon's schtick? If Renegade leveled up his party as a side-objective and still has parity with Paul on at least that front what clear advantage is Paragon side supposed to give? That's also part of why I feel Conqueror's Pride is somewhat cheap copout to the world teching up that Paul is doing the hard way. Grayven conquers something? Don't worry, he'll be the best conqueror to ever happen upon you, he'll conquer your healthcare, your schools, even your bureaucracy.
Knightfall
Nui lover and Slaaneshi
- Location
- New York, New York
Considering he is the God of Conquest this should not come as a surprise.
- Location
- Hampden Park
Thank you, corrected.
Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
Allies, and helping Humanity as a whole. Paragon can call in help from any number of sources on any number of topics, and they will gladly help the guy who helped them. Renegade could probably call in help from some of the League members, but they would be less willing to help as a whole. The only people I can think that Renegade has a clearly better relation with is China. And he hasn't done anything for Humanity.
Knightfall
Nui lover and Slaaneshi
- Location
- New York, New York
Does killing Klarion count as doing something for humanity?
Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
Fair point. Although it kind of goes into the 'keep things from getting worse as opposed to making things better'.
Edit: This is the most driven discussion I've seen in this story that actually managed to remain on topic and civil.
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You've jinxed it.
Which, hilariously, is one of Grayven's most vocal points of contention. Back when the League was introducing new members, like Red Arrow, he was bitching to the Team how sure, they keep the world safe, but they should be doing more.
- Location
- Somewhere!
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Weren't like, several villains (I think Truggs and Luthor) using that as their definition of the difference between Heroes and Villains?
Heroes defend the status quo, and Villains change it. Truggs even explicitly admired Paulphidian for being like him and working on fixing things.
Makes me wonder how, if they ever met, Grayven would react to a version of himself who seems to have gone mad with power and is using the Ophidian as a battery. A comment about not absorbing power sources larger than your head?
Heroes defend the status quo, and Villains change it. Truggs even explicitly admired Paulphidian for being like him and working on fixing things.
Makes me wonder how, if they ever met, Grayven would react to a version of himself who seems to have gone mad with power and is using the Ophidian as a battery. A comment about not absorbing power sources larger than your head?
Silverias
Seeing is Believing
- Location
- Squiddy Places
That would be a hilarious flip.
"What do you mean you merged with the Ophidian and now keep it around?"
"Actually, The Ophidian's a she..."
"And what's wrong with your SOUL!? What did you DO to yourself?"
"Well, I mean...I met John Constantine and he-"
"You let Constantine do that to you? Are you out of our mind?"
"Oh stop, look, we can talk back at the doom fortress."
"...You're my evil twin, aren't you?"
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Aisling
I like feedback!
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- She/They
"...Did whoever brought Paul through the bleed to this universe - whoever it was that he got an orange power ring from, presumably the Controllers but not ruling out the possibility of some other party - seal his name with some kind of mental barrier laid on him after his arrival in space, but before he got the ring?
If orange power rings overwhelm the self with a base need to want everything around you, it kind of makes sense. You can't want to own everything if you're not completely you. The greenies resist orange light by asserting their sense of self while it's trying to take them over, but you have no chance to do that if you're putting the ring on, the effect is massive and quickly overwhelms you. What if locking a portion of Paul's sense of individuality was what allowed him to learn to use the orange light? He has enough of himself to work as a whole person but his loss of an arcane soul might not necessarily be due to the fact he came from another universe if it was locked away from him along with his name to keep the orange light from immediately corrupting his ability to make rational choices within five minutes of putting the ring on.
It's just, that last bit with Grayven remembering his name at the last second suggests that his name is whole and can be accessed but is kept away from him, seperated or locked away. Which suggests that whatever caused it happened to him after he left his original universe and arrived in the DC one, and I can't think of anybody who'd want to do something like that but a Maltusian trying to find a way to wield the orange light. It's such an extreme thing to do to somebody without having a really, REALLY good reason to do it, and that's the only one I could think of."
If orange power rings overwhelm the self with a base need to want everything around you, it kind of makes sense. You can't want to own everything if you're not completely you. The greenies resist orange light by asserting their sense of self while it's trying to take them over, but you have no chance to do that if you're putting the ring on, the effect is massive and quickly overwhelms you. What if locking a portion of Paul's sense of individuality was what allowed him to learn to use the orange light? He has enough of himself to work as a whole person but his loss of an arcane soul might not necessarily be due to the fact he came from another universe if it was locked away from him along with his name to keep the orange light from immediately corrupting his ability to make rational choices within five minutes of putting the ring on.
It's just, that last bit with Grayven remembering his name at the last second suggests that his name is whole and can be accessed but is kept away from him, seperated or locked away. Which suggests that whatever caused it happened to him after he left his original universe and arrived in the DC one, and I can't think of anybody who'd want to do something like that but a Maltusian trying to find a way to wield the orange light. It's such an extreme thing to do to somebody without having a really, REALLY good reason to do it, and that's the only one I could think of."
Silverias
Seeing is Believing
- Location
- Squiddy Places
He knew his name, he was using the fact that saying it knocked him out to forcibly end his ring construct
He acted like he'd forgotten it because the ALE was involved, but forcing himself in that context likely reminded him not to be too Gravy.
Aisling
I like feedback!
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- She/They
"I'm not saying he didn't know his name, I'm saying it's tied to his sense of self and possibly his original soul and is somehow currently locked away from him, disallowing him to say it and assert his individuality completely as a concept in his own mind."
Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
One big hole in your theory: Blue Paul had the same problems, but Blue power rings don't have near the same psychological effects that Orange Rings do.
I wonder where Stewart's Green ring is.
He said it was deactivated, not recalled, which means that it can be repurposed by anyone with either the psychic might or the right codes.
And now that John Stewart is up and Green again, he could probably unlock the AI.
@Mr Zoat
What happened to Earth-50 John's ring?
And what of Alan Scott? And Jay the first Flash?
Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
Luthor's power suppression machine broke it, and the Guardians didn't give him another one.
Incidentally, Luthor.
I don't think either of them exist on Earth-50. The closest thing that exists to the JSA is the Justice Guild, and they're a comic book series that Stewart liked as a child. Also an alternate dimension team.
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Aisling
I like feedback!
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- She/They
"Hmm, that's true. I wonder if the name-self-barrier is just a side effect of whatever pulled him through the bleed? Or there's prior information I don't know yet because we're not far enough in the story. I suspect the whole thing will eventually be explained, I'm just trying to hypothesize reasons why it might be that way.
I wonder what exact abilities blue rings have? I know about the construct limitations and the ability to rejuvenate suns (presumably by transmutation of the core back into hydrogen) but we see very little of them, comparatively, in the comics. I've been trying to catch up a bit on the parts where the rest of the ring spectrum show up to see what they do.
Only Zoat can answer that though."
Yes; for all of Grayven's complaints, he's actually much more of a standard hero than OL is. A 90s style dark "antihero" maybe, but still a Righteous Face Puncher at heart. We saw a very nice contrast demonstrating that in the start of this arc, with both of them thinking that "this is what superheroes should be doing" while doing very different things. OL introducing new technology, Grayven getting ready to Righteously Face
There's also the demon horde, having a goddess of chaos as a patroness, encouraging Zatanna to use Chaos magic instead of Order; for the allegedly more heroic version he has quite a few features that would normally be associated with villainy. Also, there's their respective ways of channeling the Orange Light; Grayven has gone for rational self interest, extended a bit to his teammates. OL has gone for "Everything I see is MINE! The universe is MINE, therefore I shall protect it and make it better!" It's actually significantly more extreme than Grayven's "God of Conquest" bit in some ways.
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- Location
- Oblivion
To be fair he has yet to outrun the consequences of keeping Father Box around.
In fact that's getting worse and worse.
The hell?
How the everloving fuck does a Luthor break/destroy even an inert power ring?
Ah.
Thanks,
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