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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Mr Zoat said:
"No. Anyone who had failed that badly would be killed or tortured. Or possibly both. It would depend on who their overseer was." He thinks for a moment. "Of course, the truly devout would torture and kill themselves without the need for further intervention. Alas, few have that level of devotion."
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this actually provides a bit of insight into apoklyps combat doctrine. If they are willing to kill soldiers for failing a mission then they probably make a point of not failing many. ie surprise attacks with overwhelming force, while avoiding protracted engagement with peer opponents. So if they get into a fight with new genesis they probably intend for it to be won or lost in the opening engagements.

It also explains why cannis got put on darksied's shit list for raiding new genesis, giving them a bloody nose will force them to up there defenses so an actually definitive strike would be harder. That new genesis only lost 3 cites finding out there defenses could be easily overrun by a surprise assault is displeasing to him.


Mr Zoat said:
"The two nations hated each other, were rivals of each other for supremacy over your world with near equal power. On Apokolips…" He shakes his head. "Were they gods rather than nations, there could be no peace between them. Such a weapon as these Trinities represent would be used. And your Jay Garrick would certainly not be given the opportunity to keep his discovery to himself."

Wallace holds up his hands at his sides, palms upwards. "Did you not hear how that would have destroyed the world?"

"Planets are hardy things. With reasonable preparation, some of the population of one side would be able to survive and rebuild later."

"They'd be rebuilding from nothing. Billions of people would die, including almost everyone from their own side."

Canis frowns uncomprehendingly. "But they would have won?"
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the funny thing is? he doesn't see the contradiction. darkseid has spent that last few thousand years maintaining a state of cold war with his rivals. darkseid does fairly well with MAD, he's not willing to risk defeat or mutual annihilation for his ambitions. Though that might change if he didn't have the research anti-life victory condition.


Mr Zoat said:
"There are also.. other measures… Automated defences. Things to stop the volunteers leaving without authorisation."

Wallace looks uncomfortable. "Automated defences?"

"Do not worry. They will all be deactivated for our visit."
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so am I the only one who's faily sure that those defences are going to be shooting at OL before the end of this?
 
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Dakkan Sall said:
Apokolips: Where Pyrrhic Victory is Glorious Victory!
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GhostKing 666 said:
See this is why Darkseid is in charge.

He's the only one that understands that a pyrrhic victory isn't a victory.
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A big point in Pyrrhic victory is not only the ruinous costs of victory in themselves, but that your rivals are soon able to use the opening provided by those ruinous costs of yours to win next time.

So, according to Apokolips' totally perfect logic, if there won't be a rival left, then you really can't call it a Pyrrhic victory, because your rival will be dead and you will have all the necessary time to rebuild, no matter how deep a hole from. ;)
 
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Iron Roby said:
A big point in Pyrrhic victory is not only the ruinous costs of victory in themselves, but that your rivals are soon able to use the opening provided by those ruinous costs of yours to win next time.

So, according to Apokolips' totally perfect logic, if there won't be a rival left, then you really can't call it a Pyrrhic victory, because your rival will be dead and you will have all the necessary time to rebuild, no matter how deep a hole from. ;)
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Someone should explain to Canis that there were other factions on the planet that would happily exploit the vulnerability brought by the aftermath of such a conflict.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Canis frowns uncomprehendingly. "But they would have won?"
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"Canis, the United States and Soviet Union learned that there is no way to 'win' a nuclear war. Centers of government, manufacturing, and agriculture would be reduced to ashes, civilization would collapse back into a pre-industrial state, and the biosphere would likely undergo catastrophic ecological collapse. It's unlikely humanity would ever recover from something like that, and with all the easy-to-reach mineral resources already extracted, even if we did recover it's even less likely we'd ever become a spacefaring civilization. Compare that to the cooperation we have now and the benefits it gives us, and it's not hard to see which was the better outcome."
 
GhostKing 666 said:
See this is why Darkseid is in charge.

He's the only one that understands that a pyrrhic victory isn't a victory.
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I am pretty sure he is in charge because he is so powerful and cunning that he is able to kill even those who are willing to resort to phyrric attacks, and protect his subjects while doing so.

It's not like he was elected because his people applauded his restraint in not sacrificing them for small gains.
And I am sure some of those who fought him for control at the dawn of their civilization were willing to go ahead with mutually assured destruction tactics, and failed.
 
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stsword said:
There are several artifacts that could work in the theme that exist in the Marvel universe- The most on the nose would be the Freedom Ring- a piece of a cosmic cube shaped into a ring, which can manipulate reality in a 15 foot radius.

But marvel decided to kill the guy in like his second appearance, which was a bit of a shame in my opinion, then the freedom ring went to his skrull buddy/mentor figure, but he was either killed or disappeared during the Skrull invasion. He decided staying in the closet was the best thing during his people's invasion of Earth, unfortunately for him he ran into someone who can see skrulls for what they are no matter what shape they are in.

So it's not being used currently and since there have been several cosmic cubes nothing is stopping a second freedom ring from being made.
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MarvelPaul would use it to fake having a soul and he would also go for the original Freedom ring.

Not to mention give himself all the powers he wants while wearing the ring as long as their range of effect isn't as large than the ring.
 
Valiran said:
"Canis, the United States and Soviet Union learned that there is no way to 'win' a nuclear war. Centers of government, manufacturing, and agriculture would be reduced to ashes, civilization would collapse back into a pre-industrial state, and the biosphere would likely undergo catastrophic ecological collapse. "
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"Surely they would be grateful at their world becoming more like glorious Apokolips!"

"Nnnnno. Probably not."

"But this planet is covered with all those unsightly green growths, no Fire Pits and barely any proper wastelands at all! I don't know how the people here stand it."
 
Mr Zoat said:
"There are also.. other measures… Automated defences. Things to stop the volunteers leaving without authorisation."

Wallace looks uncomfortable. "Automated defences?"

"Do not worry. They will all be deactivated for our visit."
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Premise 1: "Volunteers" who can't leave without authorization because of automated defences.
Premise 2: Automated defences are getting turned off.
Conclusion: Hilarity ensues.
 
random_npc said:
this actually provides a bit of insight into apoklyps combat doctrine. If they are willing to kill soldiers for failing a mission then they probably make a point of not failing many. ie surprise attacks with overwhelming force, while avoiding protracted engagement with peer opponents. So if they get into a fight with new genesis they probably intend for it to be won or lost in the opening engagements.

It also explains why cannis got put on darksied's shit list for raiding new genesis, giving them a bloody nose will force them to up there defenses so an actually definitive strike would be harder. That new genesis only lost 3 cites finding out there defenses could be easily overrun by a surprise assault is displeasing to him.




the funny thing is? he doesn't see the contradiction. darkseid has spent that last few thousand years maintaining a state of cold war with his rivals. darkseid does fairly well with MAD, he's not willing to risk defeat or mutual annihilation for his ambitions. Though that might change if he didn't have the research anti-life victory condition.




so am I the only one who's faily sure that those defences are going to be shooting at OL before the end of this?
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*shrugs*
the flipside is that Darkseid is constantly weakening his army by executing leaders/soldiers in situations where they genuinely did nothing wrong/ had no WAY of succeeding, so to some extent, you'd think that'd balance out the extra "motivation", if you don't count encouraging your assets to Defect out of simple self-preservation >.>
 
Valiran said:
"Canis, the United States and Soviet Union learned that there is no way to 'win' a nuclear war. Centers of government, manufacturing, and agriculture would be reduced to ashes, civilization would collapse back into a pre-industrial state, and the biosphere would likely undergo catastrophic ecological collapse. It's unlikely humanity would ever recover from something like that, and with all the easy-to-reach mineral resources already extracted, even if we did recover it's even less likely we'd ever become a spacefaring civilization. Compare that to the cooperation we have now and the benefits it gives us, and it's not hard to see which was the better outcome."
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TLDR: if you win by killing yourself, you haven't really won
 
mrttao said:
I am pretty sure he is in charge because he is so powerful and cunning that he is able to kill even those who are willing to resort to phyrric attacks, and protect his subjects while doing so.
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It helps that Darkseid cheats- The omega effect is an outside source of power which existed before Darkseid was born and will exist after he dies, without it he'd be a dictator trying to inspire terror in shorts and thigh high boots. :)

Which would probably go something like "Fear me mortal!"

Gives him a look over, "Are you from the planet Transylvania?"

"Frank N Furter stole the look from me, not the other way around!"

Gantradies said:
*shrugs*
the flipside is that Darkseid is constantly weakening his army by executing leaders/soldiers in situations where they genuinely did nothing wrong/ had no WAY of succeeding, so to some extent, you'd think that'd balance out the extra "motivation", if you don't count encouraging your assets to Defect out of simple self-preservation >.>
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The mass of Darkseid's army is generally the parademons, who are mass produced for zerg rushes, of whom the average specimen might not be smart enough to talk.

If one defects, he's out an attack dog with thumbs, he probably has a punch card so that every 10,000 parademon the next 1000 are free.
 
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Gantradies said:
*shrugs*
the flipside is that Darkseid is constantly weakening his army by executing leaders/soldiers in situations where they genuinely did nothing wrong/ had no WAY of succeeding, so to some extent, you'd think that'd balance out the extra "motivation", if you don't count encouraging your assets to Defect out of simple self-preservation >.>
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he's attritioning his own forces, but at a rate either at or below requirement. The results of this is that he has a smaller but perpetually blooded army. It also is probably a great way to make sure any potential internal threats die, and given new genesis seems to be disturbingly ok with letting him brood and work on his "I win button" in peace internal threats are at least as much a concern as external ones.
 
mrttao said:
you haven't killed yourself, you killed those filthy capitalists/communists, and left yourself a small breeding pop to rebuild from somewhere
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thats assuming the EXISTENCE of a surviving breeding population >.>

stsword said:
It helps that Darkseid cheats- The omega effect is an outside source of power which existed before Darkseid was born and will exist after he dies, without it he'd be a dictator trying to inspire terror in shorts and thigh high boots. :)

Which would probably go something like "Fear me mortal!"

Gives him a look over, "Are you from the planet Transylvania?"

"Frank N Furter stole the look from me, not the other way around!"



The mass of Darkseid's army is generally the parademons, who are mass produced for zerg rushes, of whom the average specimen might not be smart enough to talk.

If one defects, he's out an attack dog with thumbs, he probably has a punch card so that every 10,000 parademon the next 1000 are free.
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i was thinking more the actually IMPORTANT individuals (leaders, especially powerful/strategically powerful individuals and the like), but point taken
 
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GhostKing 666 said:
See this is why Darkseid is in charge.
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*watches video*

*Batman is swatted through a pillar about as wide as his torso*
*Batman is thrown against a wall hard enough to flake bits off it*
*Batman is slammed against the wall again, hard enough to crack it and shake the room*
*Batman is slammed through that wall, leaving a bigger-than-Darkseid-sized hole in it*

Despite the caped crusader's body armor, and the speeds involved suggesting that Darkseid's throne room is made out of something akin to plaster or paper-mache, they sure do build humans tough in the DC universe...
 
Zig said:
Pushkin
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Thank you, corrected.
mrttao said:
I am pretty sure he is in charge because he is so powerful and cunning that he is able to kill even those who are willing to resort to phyrric attacks, and protect his subjects while doing so.

It's not like he was elected because his people applauded his restraint in not sacrificing them for small gains.
And I am sure some of those who fought him for control at the dawn of their civilization were willing to go ahead with mutually assured destruction tactics, and failed.
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Darkseid 16 wasn't born until long after the dawn of Apokoliptian civilisation. He inherited the throne after the death of his mother.
Amrynel said:
Despite the caped crusader's body armor, and the speeds involved suggesting that Darkseid's throne room is made out of something akin to plaster or paper-mache, they sure do build humans tough in the DC universe...
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I'm assuming that the rig he wears has some sort of force field built in.
 
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