NemiTheNen
Perpetual Phone Poster
.....More of a...traditional sort, rather.
Hot damn what's this from?
With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)
- Thread starter Mr Zoat
- Start date
- Status
Hot damn what's this from?
The Books of Magic Series.
Tactical Tunic
Glorious Burgerman of Eagleland
- Location
- Holy Terra
The quote refers to the fact that if you give the good guys power sufficient to trivialize their canon opposition the story becomes boring unless you also empower their opposition. Zoat sidesteps this by 1) not bringing in anything from outside the DCU 2) bringing in bigger bads 3) writing non-canon conflict styles (i.e. uplift, conspiracy against nabu).
No, this is a bad quote and you should feel bad for even parroting it. It is the opposite of good advice. If You make one OCP change to the setting (giving Frodo a Light Saber) the proper way to grow the setting is NOT making more OCP changes to the setting (Sauron getting a Death Star)
It is better to keep the initial deviations from canon minimal, and make sure everyone else in the setting reacts to Frodo w/Lightsaber in a realistic and believable manner consistent with their established character.
*Puts on Zoat Hat*
Renegade doesn't know how Megan's reproduction works since removing the Guardian's Block.
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Jamie Roberts
Hávamál 127
- Location
- N/A
- Pronouns
- she/her
Well obviously. They run the d@#% place. When you make the laws, there's really no good reason to break them.
Ganurath
Literal Enthusiast
- Location
- A Valid Location
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I dunno, I can think of at least one person who'd break laws that they made just for the sake of doing so.
- Location
- Earth, 3rd rock from the Sun
I was thinking the spoiler about belief in faeries making them come back was a video of YMCA. Because if we all clap our hands and just believe hard enough maybe, just maybe, we can bring back disco! And as everyone knows, the first step in bringing back Disco is either the Village People, or whoever sings Afternoon Delight and a whole lot of glitter. And since YMCA does not require you to wear roller skates, lets go with that one.
"It's prohibited, you see. But as I make the laws here, I can also break them. With impunity, Mr. Marx," he added, turning to Bernard. "Which I'm afraid you can't do." - World Controller Mustapha Mond, Brave New World.
"make sure everyone else in the setting reacts to Frodo w/Lightsaber in a realistic and believable manner consistent with their established character."
Like I thought the Nazgul had been killed and buried before, and it did not stick. And they have flying beasties. and Frodo is very short. And there is nine of them and one of him. And the corrupting power of the Dark Side and the corrupting power of the One Ring make for a pretty nasty situation. So explore that. This story may be figuring out how to get Frodo to make a better choice than Isuldir did, before you switch one Dark Lord for another. Because a Frodo with the a Light Saber means the confrontation with Gollum at the end goes a different way. None of this involves giving Sauron a Death Star.
- Location
- texas
Yes, but in the comics (or at least outside of Prime Earth comics) saying that Apokalips is one of the strongest military forces in the universe is a bit hard to swallow.
The female furies, the greatest warriors on Apokalips, Darkseid's handpicked bodyguards, generally use melee weapons.
The parademons, Darkseid's supersoldiers, are zerg rushing mooks whose primary function is to be killed en masse, and it's been indicated (sometimes, like I've mentioned before, it's not like DC writers care about continuity) the typical parademon isn't actually smart enough to count as a person instead of an animal.
So usually Darkseid's forces consist primarily of flying monkeys and people who generally limit themselves to weapons available straight out of a DnD handbook.
However it will be interesting to see how Zoat handles things.
After all, like I mentioned, parademons are the result of the Apokalips supersoldier program, and they're mooks. Since Zoat made the new gods actual deities instead of aliens with a hideous fashion sense, that's a little hard to reconcile.
In Prime Earth continuity, they handled it by apparently having Darkseid be a Star Trek fan who told Desaad "Build me the borg!" so now parademons are nanozombies made from all the aliens Apokalips has attacked, so the Borg, presumably with the powers of DC races.
There is an explicit reason to believe that she now reproduces like a burning martian- how you were raised has absolute crap to do with the physical requirements of reproduction. One is sociology, the other is biology.
Martians mating by sexual reproduction was never a biological necessity but a lie foisted on them by the Guardians.
I don't know if it's true, but it's said that the reason that Elephants don't escape from these tiny chains they are sometimes kept in is because they learned when they were young that they can't break them, so the elephants think they can't escape from these chains they can easily break with a minuscule fraction of their strength.
You're argument is the equivalent of saying that the elephants should be physically incapable of breaking free, even after being taught that they can.
And that makes no sense whatsoever.
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Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
Basically this:
The various characters can react realistically all they want, but if the antagonists' realistic reactions are to lose very quickly and easily you either need to buff them or change the focus of the story.
Well they're made out to be so. The GLC had trouble with them, so that sets a lower bar to how bad they can actually be.
Probably just writer inconsistency.
Lanterns punch people and use melee constructs. Even in this story, Hal tried using a bat construct. Ranged weapons seem to be taboo to some people.
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- Location
- texas
No, the lantern's had trouble because they were yellow and this fight happened when green lanterns couldn't affect anything yellow. So Apokalips achieved a stalemate because the Guardians gave the rings a weakness because they don't trust their own minons.
That doesn't make Apokalips strong, that makes the Guardians stupid.
It's not about taboo, it's about effectiveness. No matter how deadly a melee weapon you have, by definition, as a melee weapon, you can't hurt anyone not within reach. So barring stretching like Plastic Man or superspeed like the Flash it's effectiveness is limited.
There's a reason why gun massacres are a weekly occurrence in the US but it's knife massacres where guns aren't available, it's easier to kill someone when you don't have to get within a few feet of them first.
And a fist construct flying out at you from a lantern ring is a ranged weapon.
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Empiricist2
Let's play doctor!
- Location
- Baton Rouge
Well that's true of ranged weapons as well.
I was more talking about stuff like this horseshittery.
She primarily uses constructs shaped like melee weapons. It's just so dumb. Bubble shield and energy blasts+more directed constructs to distract him, he goes down in like 10 seconds. Instead she gets stabbed for being a moron.
No, this is a bad quote and you should feel bad for even parroting it. It is the opposite of good advice. If You make one OCP change to the setting (giving Frodo a Light Saber) the proper way to grow the setting is NOT making more OCP changes to the setting (Sauron getting a Death Star)
It is better to keep the initial deviations from canon minimal, and make sure everyone else in the setting reacts to Frodo w/Lightsaber in a realistic and believable manner consistent with their established character.
*Puts on Zoat Hat*
Renegade doesn't know how Megan's reproduction works since removing the Guardian's Block.
then while on the road to Bree Frodo in panic turns the wrong end of the tube at his face and presses the button. At which Frodo now has a nice new hole in his head where a glowing plasma blade is.
I do believe that's what happens when you give Frodo a lightsaber.
In this setting it was "fear aura hypertech", not the color yellow.
Demeanour (supplementary, Renegade option)
- Location
- Hampden Park
21st April
13:40 GMT -5
President Horne rises to his feet as his personal assistant shows me into the Oval Office. "How did it go?"
I amble over the presidential seal on the carpet and come to a halt before the desk. "Remind me: you don't like F Thirty Fives, right?"
"I have some reservations about the cost/benefit ratio and in some of the technologies involved. I wouldn't go so far as to say that I dislike it. It's an aircraft, not a person."
I'm honestly not sure if his dispassionate attitude is going to be a help or a hindrance. I suppose it has allowed him to govern the country despite the House and Senate both being split down the middle. "I informed the Committee that advanced species have -for the most part- abandoned aircraft, and that in any case the American establishment's unwillingness to use 'superhero' technology means that compared to things you can find in a half dozen American cities any day of the week, even cutting edge conventional aeronautics are more or less obsolete."
President Horne regards me for a moment. "Is that what you've been telling the Chinese?"
"Mister President, I didn't assist them in creating the Dragon Wing. I merely aided the pilot in an attempt to ensure that he doesn't melt. And the Dragon Wing has a great many advantages over a more conventional aircraft."
"Would you, if asked?"
"Mister President, at this point few things are more contrary to my interests than encouraging internecine conflict on Earth. But you do need to advance your technology beyond burning hydrocarbons and… Copper."
"You didn't answer my question, there."
"Probably, if they were working on something interesting. There are a hundred ways that fiddling with Durlan technology can go wrong. Better for the Earth that it doesn't."
"And would you do the same with us?"
"Mister President, I have no allegiance to any Earth nation. But, I've met you. I've never met Hu Jintao. I live here, and in the autumn my daughter will begin going to school here. Your.. country is growing on me."
He nods, a faint smile on his lips. "So, we're your favorite customers, just not your only one."
"More or less."
There's a knock at the door, then his personal assistant sticks his head around the door. "Mister President? Mister Myer and General Lane here for you, sir."
"You can send them right in, Irwin." President Horne walks around the left side of his desk and gestures to the seating on the opposite side of the room. "Shall we?"
"Ah… Mister President, I'd crush those seats."
"Oh." He looks me over. "I suppose you would. I'm sorry, but I don't think we've got-."
The door opens once more and Mister Myer and General Samuel Lane walk in. Full regalia, hat under his left arm. I am privileged. He looks at me. He's.. weighing me up. He doesn't appear to resent my presence. Never got around to asking Kal-El what their relationship was like. So I don't know what his general attitude to superfolks is. Or aliens.
"General. Thank you for coming."
General Lane comes to attention. "Mister President."
President Horne gives him a nod. "I don't believe that you've met Mister Grayven."
"No, but I've heard of him." I hold out my right hand and after a split second hesitation he takes it in a firm grip.
"I believe that I was once harangued at length by your elder daughter."
"Heh. You're not the only one."
President Horne turns his attention to Irwin. "Have the kitchens send us up refreshments in about an hour." Irwin nods, then closes the door behind him. "Grayven, General Lane is being put in charge of our exotic weapons research program, replacing General Eiling."
I nod. "I suppose that we'll be seeing a good deal of each other, then."
"After the shellacking you gave the Committee? I should think so. Not sure whether I should be mad about you badmouthing the US military or enjoy the schadenfreude at the Air Force's expense."
"Why don't we say you did the first while you actually do the second?"
"Works for me."
President Horne gestures at the seating. "Okay, gentlemen, if you'd like to take a seat…"
Mister Myer sits down in the far corner while President Horne takes the position next to him. After a brief moment of hesitation and mutual eye flickering General Lane sits down opposite Mister Myer while I cover the position opposite President Horne in a construct before carefully lowering myself onto it.
Flying in a sitting position just isn't as relaxing as actually sitting down.
Mister Myer opens his briefcase and passes President Horne a card folder. He in turn opens that and takes out a stapled together group of printed pages. "First item. General, are you up to speed on your brief?"
"Assuming that everyone involved is actually telling my people the truth, yes." He turns his head my way. "The United States had a lot of 'future weapon' research programs, each in separate chains of command. Now, they all work for me."
I nod. "I imagine that ruffled a few feathers."
"Some. But mostly they're mad enough about Klarion-" He snarls the word. "-and how they weren't prepared for him that we've got them on board." He turns back to his Commander in Chief. "Not a lot will change for them on a day to day basis. I doubt we'll have any serious problems with insubordination."
"Glad to hear it. Anything I need to know about right away?"
"I don't think so, sir. I'll have a full written report for you within a fortnight."
"Alright then. Adrian, how are things going with sounding Congress out about… Ah, what are we calling it?"
"'Special Tribunals', sir."
"And we couldn't come up with something less ominous sounding than that?"
"There are only so many things you can call a court hearing, sir."
"I guess. So?"
"Well, Republican conservatives are delighted by the idea. They weren't sure you could pass it, but they liked the idea. Republican moderates and libertarians were against in principle, though a lot of them said they wanted to see a firm proposal before they came down on either side."
"About what we expected. And my fellow Democrats?"
Mister Myer sighs. That isn't a good sign. "Mostly, the best I could say is 'lukewarm'. A lot of them were pretty confident it would be unconstitutional to try someone in absentia."
"I thought Caroline came up with a form of words which let us get around that."
"It should, but even if we could get it passed in Congress it would be challenged by every civil liberties group in the country. We won't really know for sure until the Supreme Court rules on it."
"Great."
General Lane looks momentarily puzzled. "Ah, Mister President?"
"Sorry, General. We're looking into ways to deal with people like Klarion legally." The General's puzzlement deepens. "Ways to try and convict them for their crimes. It turns out that trying someone who can't be safely captured or confined isn't something the Founding Fathers gave much consideration to."
"Well, hell sir." He actually looks a little impressed. "I'd happily kill the son of a bitch whatever the courts said."
"I'm sure you would, General. But as a matter of policy I feel that this administration should try and stay within the bounds of the law."
…
My goodness me. He's actually serious.
13:40 GMT -5
President Horne rises to his feet as his personal assistant shows me into the Oval Office. "How did it go?"
I amble over the presidential seal on the carpet and come to a halt before the desk. "Remind me: you don't like F Thirty Fives, right?"
"I have some reservations about the cost/benefit ratio and in some of the technologies involved. I wouldn't go so far as to say that I dislike it. It's an aircraft, not a person."
I'm honestly not sure if his dispassionate attitude is going to be a help or a hindrance. I suppose it has allowed him to govern the country despite the House and Senate both being split down the middle. "I informed the Committee that advanced species have -for the most part- abandoned aircraft, and that in any case the American establishment's unwillingness to use 'superhero' technology means that compared to things you can find in a half dozen American cities any day of the week, even cutting edge conventional aeronautics are more or less obsolete."
President Horne regards me for a moment. "Is that what you've been telling the Chinese?"
"Mister President, I didn't assist them in creating the Dragon Wing. I merely aided the pilot in an attempt to ensure that he doesn't melt. And the Dragon Wing has a great many advantages over a more conventional aircraft."
"Would you, if asked?"
"Mister President, at this point few things are more contrary to my interests than encouraging internecine conflict on Earth. But you do need to advance your technology beyond burning hydrocarbons and… Copper."
"You didn't answer my question, there."
"Probably, if they were working on something interesting. There are a hundred ways that fiddling with Durlan technology can go wrong. Better for the Earth that it doesn't."
"And would you do the same with us?"
"Mister President, I have no allegiance to any Earth nation. But, I've met you. I've never met Hu Jintao. I live here, and in the autumn my daughter will begin going to school here. Your.. country is growing on me."
He nods, a faint smile on his lips. "So, we're your favorite customers, just not your only one."
"More or less."
There's a knock at the door, then his personal assistant sticks his head around the door. "Mister President? Mister Myer and General Lane here for you, sir."
"You can send them right in, Irwin." President Horne walks around the left side of his desk and gestures to the seating on the opposite side of the room. "Shall we?"
"Ah… Mister President, I'd crush those seats."
"Oh." He looks me over. "I suppose you would. I'm sorry, but I don't think we've got-."
The door opens once more and Mister Myer and General Samuel Lane walk in. Full regalia, hat under his left arm. I am privileged. He looks at me. He's.. weighing me up. He doesn't appear to resent my presence. Never got around to asking Kal-El what their relationship was like. So I don't know what his general attitude to superfolks is. Or aliens.
"General. Thank you for coming."
General Lane comes to attention. "Mister President."
President Horne gives him a nod. "I don't believe that you've met Mister Grayven."
"No, but I've heard of him." I hold out my right hand and after a split second hesitation he takes it in a firm grip.
"I believe that I was once harangued at length by your elder daughter."
"Heh. You're not the only one."
President Horne turns his attention to Irwin. "Have the kitchens send us up refreshments in about an hour." Irwin nods, then closes the door behind him. "Grayven, General Lane is being put in charge of our exotic weapons research program, replacing General Eiling."
I nod. "I suppose that we'll be seeing a good deal of each other, then."
"After the shellacking you gave the Committee? I should think so. Not sure whether I should be mad about you badmouthing the US military or enjoy the schadenfreude at the Air Force's expense."
"Why don't we say you did the first while you actually do the second?"
"Works for me."
President Horne gestures at the seating. "Okay, gentlemen, if you'd like to take a seat…"
Mister Myer sits down in the far corner while President Horne takes the position next to him. After a brief moment of hesitation and mutual eye flickering General Lane sits down opposite Mister Myer while I cover the position opposite President Horne in a construct before carefully lowering myself onto it.
Flying in a sitting position just isn't as relaxing as actually sitting down.
Mister Myer opens his briefcase and passes President Horne a card folder. He in turn opens that and takes out a stapled together group of printed pages. "First item. General, are you up to speed on your brief?"
"Assuming that everyone involved is actually telling my people the truth, yes." He turns his head my way. "The United States had a lot of 'future weapon' research programs, each in separate chains of command. Now, they all work for me."
I nod. "I imagine that ruffled a few feathers."
"Some. But mostly they're mad enough about Klarion-" He snarls the word. "-and how they weren't prepared for him that we've got them on board." He turns back to his Commander in Chief. "Not a lot will change for them on a day to day basis. I doubt we'll have any serious problems with insubordination."
"Glad to hear it. Anything I need to know about right away?"
"I don't think so, sir. I'll have a full written report for you within a fortnight."
"Alright then. Adrian, how are things going with sounding Congress out about… Ah, what are we calling it?"
"'Special Tribunals', sir."
"And we couldn't come up with something less ominous sounding than that?"
"There are only so many things you can call a court hearing, sir."
"I guess. So?"
"Well, Republican conservatives are delighted by the idea. They weren't sure you could pass it, but they liked the idea. Republican moderates and libertarians were against in principle, though a lot of them said they wanted to see a firm proposal before they came down on either side."
"About what we expected. And my fellow Democrats?"
Mister Myer sighs. That isn't a good sign. "Mostly, the best I could say is 'lukewarm'. A lot of them were pretty confident it would be unconstitutional to try someone in absentia."
"I thought Caroline came up with a form of words which let us get around that."
"It should, but even if we could get it passed in Congress it would be challenged by every civil liberties group in the country. We won't really know for sure until the Supreme Court rules on it."
"Great."
General Lane looks momentarily puzzled. "Ah, Mister President?"
"Sorry, General. We're looking into ways to deal with people like Klarion legally." The General's puzzlement deepens. "Ways to try and convict them for their crimes. It turns out that trying someone who can't be safely captured or confined isn't something the Founding Fathers gave much consideration to."
"Well, hell sir." He actually looks a little impressed. "I'd happily kill the son of a bitch whatever the courts said."
"I'm sure you would, General. But as a matter of policy I feel that this administration should try and stay within the bounds of the law."
…
My goodness me. He's actually serious.
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- Location
- madison
supervillains are both moderately common and high visibility, so it's best to come up with a publicly accepted mechanism for determining when to send the kill squads out. It would also be a rather impressive feather in his cap if he could pull it off.
Typos:
"Is"
"assistant"
"So"
- Location
- Columbia, SC
It's hard to tell if Grayven is horrified or impressed that he's serious. Probably both, all things considered.
And considering he's working to actually change the law...that's actually both classy and respectable.
And considering he's working to actually change the law...that's actually both classy and respectable.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Laws exist to serve the state/people (pick your poison). When the circumstances change the laws should change as well.
He started off as a (Power Ring wielding) human, injected himself with Venombuster (his ring helped streamline the effect so his skin didn't tear and he didn't end up malformed). Later he was mistaken for the New God Grayven and took on the name both to troll the Forever People and because he wanted a name he could use beyond 'Orange Lantern'. That same adventure, he acquired Dessad's Fatherbox. Fatherbox heard Dessad identify Renegade as 'Prince Grayven' and had no reason to doubt the statement.
Grayven started to use Fatherbox to further refine his physical transformation from the Venombuster as well as build him a soul analogue to help protect himself from magic. Fatherbox, believing him to be Grayven, God of Conquest, naturally built him a New God's soul, causing him to gradually achieve ascension. I suspect that at this point he started to share the Mantle with the original Grayven.
While Darksied almost certainly doesn't believe he's the real Grayven, he's allowed/encouraged the masquerade for his own shits and giggles. If the ursurper (renegade) manages to steal the Mantle, then that makes him more worthy of it (and more worthy of being Darkseid's son). For a while, the Mantle's effects started to make Renegade believe that he was Darkseid's son.
By this time, he's thrown off at least most of the Apokalyptian mental influence (which was probably excerbated by the Orange Ring, (pretending to be Prince Grayven must mean he wants to be Prince Grayven, right?) ) but the main thing keeping Apocalyptians off Earth is that Darksied recognised it as "Grayven's turf". If he's not Grayven, that no longer applies and Darksied will likely need to 'make an example of the one who dared deceive him' to save face.
So while he's implied to the JL that he's not the original, he's still stuck playing the role.
- Location
- madison
wow. I mean sure that's an impressive display of martial arts, but that is embarrassingly bad ring slinging. I didn't know you could fuck up an environmental shield, I had assumed that level of basic protection was supposed to be automatic. That she's using weapon constructs that appear to be 1 to 1 replicas of mundane weapons is almost minor compared to that.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That was that was very clearly a "secret test of character" the level of control she showed of her ring means that he never stood a chance. She got stabbed because she needed to know if he would stab her.
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Dakkan Sall
Random Encounter
- Location
- On the world map
"gestures" since the rest of the chapter is written in present tense.
- Location
- Hampden Park
Thank you, corrected.
All correct, except for the word 'mantle'. There is no mantle. I am not Jim Butcher.
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- Status