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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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Massgamer said:
Sometimes you just got to go for style points.:p
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Well, two things come to mind.

First of all, their martians, with built in kryptonian level shapeshifting (edit: meant invulnerability there, kryptonians aren't known for their shapeshifting) and intangibility, what's a falling building going to do with them, ruin their outfit?

Secondly, martians are big into biotech. In the Martian Manhunter comic it was established that his costume was in fact a symbiotic lifeform designed to shapeshift with him. So there's a decent chance that those buildings are alive and as tough as martian bioengineering can make them, and/or will shapeshift as needed or wanted by their owners.

bigreader said:
Why does he need to wear power armor to phase? Isn't that a basic power ring power?
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In the comics, it's part of "rings can pretty much do whatever the owner wants them to do," but Alan Scott is the only one who ever made a habit out of it that I can recall.

In this story, though, it's an advanced skill, which is why Paul uses intangibility technology from the future.
 
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I would like to see a situation where Paul is being blackmailed into doing something, and the Orange Light prevent him from doing something under duress due to his contempt for the actions.
Sort of like his contempt for currency, makes him destroy it.

Or would it not work like that? Cause I've been waiting for this to happen, ever since Alan broached the topic of the dangers of avarice back in the beginning of the story.

Reference below...

Mr Zoat said:
He nods. "Creating a green construct is an exercise in willpower, mental focus. Is that how your ring works?"

"No. The orange light responds to avarice."

That didn't go down well. He slides to sit on the edge of his chair and leans forwards.

"What exactly do you mean by that?"

"The more I want the construct, the more I want the outcome the construct is being created to achieve, the stronger the construct."

"And if you don't want it all that much?"

"Then it would be very difficult for me to act. With the ring at least. In extremis, the ring might actually prevent me from acting."

My eyes drop to the carpet. I don't know for sure that can happen, but it seems logical. Might actually have to watch out for it.

"That sounds unreliable."

"I… I suppose it is. I haven't had a problem so far, though."
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I know at this point it seems like every time I post it's to complain about something. But really is it just me, or has the pace this episode slowed to a crawl? It might be a side-effect of the framing. Like, instead of people having conversations it's M'gann stopping what she's doing to relay the conversations she's having with others to OL. Literally telling rather than showing.
 
Daimonin said:
[Looking at the linked image of martian city] Oh how nice, that martians have a tendency to walk around their own planet in Human-acceptable form, including long hair for the females, and cloths for everyone.
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No they don't. That image comes from M'gann's campfire story about how she got into superheroing. It doesn't depict the reality of the situation at all, and the reason for that is that she was lying through her teeth.
bigreader said:
Why does he need to wear power armor to phase? Isn't that a basic power ring power?
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Only if you know how. The SI doesn't and none of the locals can teach him.
 
Daimonin said:
[Looking at the linked image of martian city] Oh how nice, that martians have a tendency to walk around their own planet in Human-acceptable form, including long hair for the females, and cloths for everyone.
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Mr Zoat said:
No they don't. That image comes from M'gann's campfire story about how she got into superheroing. It doesn't depict the reality of the situation at all, and the reason for that is that she was lying through her teeth.
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Note, for instance, that Reds, Greens and Whites are all intermingling, which we very much know from what we've been told of Martian society would not be something they would actually be doing....
 
The Chosen One said:
I'm not sure if this is what you're asking, but IRL, information can't travel faster than light either, and devices that allow this carry the same implications overall. Put another way, sending information back in time, oracle-wise, should be exactly as impossible as sending matter, like whole people, back in time, and for the same reasons.
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DC neatly sidesteps the whole special relativity issue by using an objective frame of reference for the universe- namely, the Presence. You still get time dilation, but you can't travel in time because you and another FTL traveler were traveling on different angles and you sent a message to him which arrived before he left after you both left at the same time.

Time travel exists, but it requires special equipment of which 'two FTL ships + FTL comms' are not generally a part of.
 
I'll be the first to admit that I don't know jack about relativity, so this might come across as a bit ignorant but "if you move faster than an arbitery set of light particles, you travel through time" sounds a bit silly.

I mean, if someone flies in that direction on sub-light for six days and I catch up in ten minutes using FTL, that doesn't mean I travelled through time. It's no different than catching up with someone who walked away by jogging. I got where they are faster than they did by moving at greater speeds.


Talking about perception or frames of reference... I'm pretty sure physics work exactly the same regardless of whether you're looking at them or not. Assuming that the universe stops doing something when you stop paying attention to it sounds like a child's sort of logic, where people can't see you if you cover your eyes.

The world around you doesn't give a fuck if you're looking or not. It's doing it's thing and it's going to continue to do so.

In a comic-book world, however, that shit doesn't fly at all. "Goes fast" is a cosmic force and time-travel is explicitly a part of it's gimmick.
 
iamnuff said:
I'll be the first to admit that I don't know jack about relativity, so this might come across as a bit ignorant but "if you move faster than an arbitery set of light particles, you travel through time" sounds a bit silly.

I mean, if someone flies in that direction on sub-light for six days and I catch up in ten minutes using FTL, that doesn't mean I travelled through time. It's no different than catching up with someone who walked away by jogging. I got where they are faster than they did by moving at greater speeds.


Talking about perception or frames of reference... I'm pretty sure physics work exactly the same regardless of whether you're looking at them or not. Assuming that the universe stops doing something when you stop paying attention to it sounds like a child's sort of logic, where people can't see you if you cover your eyes.

The world around you doesn't give a fuck if you're looking or not. It's doing it's thing and it's going to continue to do so.

In a comic-book world, however, that shit doesn't fly at all. "Goes fast" is a cosmic force and time-travel is explicitly a part of it's gimmick.
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There is, in fact, a considerable difference between catching up to someone using a faster-still-STL speed and using FTL travel.

The most important to know is that, despite your reservations, the nature of an observer's reality is, in fact, effected by that observer's state. The relativity of simultaneity is real, and has been measured in both laboratory and practical settings, despite its sort-of mind-bending implications. It is an example of how the structure of history changes depending on how you are viewing it, especially depending on your velocity. If you have a velocity exceeding a particular limit, the eponymous light-speed, then basically everything stops making sense, which seems to imply that such a situation is not possible.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"Teekl, there's a whole planet of people out there who've never seen a cat before!"

"Mrww?"

"Never, Teekl." I lean closer and she stares back at me. "Never seen one before. There's a gaping, cat-shaped hole in their lives and only you can fill it."

She tilts her head slightly to the side. "Teekl suppose Teekl grace funny smell people with Teekl magnificence." She rolls to her feet and stretches out, claws momentarily extending. Kinks worked out, she jumps to the cabin floor and starts growing up to her Tiger-sized form.
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See, this is why baby Wolf should have come! Now martians are going to think humans either keep asshole pets, or are ruled by furry four legged animals.

Jokes aside, I really enjoyed the imagery of the Martian city. For some reason though, I keep imagining it based on the design of Ship, and that's a very pretty image. I also kind of wish I could go, which is probably the best thing for a fictional world. But then I worry about the mind readers seeing the darker aspects of me, like my love of fighting anime. Wait, could Paul block martians from reading my mind? Because then I'd be down to go.
 
iamnuff said:
I mean, if someone flies in that direction on sub-light for six days and I catch up in ten minutes using FTL, that doesn't mean I travelled through time. It's no different than catching up with someone who walked away by jogging. I got where they are faster than they did by moving at greater speeds.
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As I mentioned earlier, a SINGLE FTL transit DOESN'T result in time travel. You have to basically make a triangle, where one side is the flow of normal spacetime at the place you're traveling to, one side is the FTL travel to catch up with your destination, and one side is the FTL travel to get to where your origin point used to be.

It's kinda like sailing -- you can't sail straight against the wind, but you can zigzag at angles to it to get where you're going anyway.

Talking about perception or frames of reference... I'm pretty sure physics work exactly the same regardless of whether you're looking at them or not. Assuming that the universe stops doing something when you stop paying attention to it sounds like a child's sort of logic, where people can't see you if you cover your eyes.
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Perception is just an intuitive way of describing it. A reference frame is a mathematical construct that doesn't actually have anything to do with perceiving things. The core insight of relativity is that you can pick any non-accelerating (that is, traveling at constant speed) particle and say "okay, this is what I'm going to consider 'at rest'" and define everything else in the universe relative to that.

If you DO need to worry about perception or observation, the real mechanism of observation is just cause and effect, and that doesn't require eyes -- any particle can be affected by waves and other particles. It just happens that in intelligent beings, one of the causes is photons hitting a retina and one of the effects is that you see something.
 
@iamnuff

The "speed of light" is a rather misleading term in physics. It suggests that the speed depends on what light does. Which is exactly backwards from what it really means.

The "speed of light" should really be called the "speed of time". It's the speed at which effects propagate from causes across the universe. It's the speed at which a "now" happens. How fast the arbitrary collection of massless particles goes depends on THAT, rather than the other way around. Similarly, FTL travel should really be called Faster Than Time.

It's just that we discovered that light traveled at a fixed finite velocity before we discovered that if you stand on a spaceship going .5c and shine your flashlight forwards, the beam still goes the same fixed finite speed regardless of who's watching from where or how fast they're going. So we named the constant wrong.
 
Discussions aside I want to see Paul inadvertently come into contact with the Martian equivalent of hallucinogenics and go into another mind trip and inadvertently make friends with some important martian power figure.
 
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