With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

The_Letter_K · Jul 21, 2016

NexysDhyArchen said:
I think that they're designed to bleed it off already.

Yeah, but it if I recall correctly, it bleeds solely as heat, and so wouldn't be much use as a battery without a re-design. Wasn't the point to cover OL's weakness to any and all magic? (Well, that and getting him a soul structure, but that's slower.) Not much use if it just got him high off the magic instead, like in the grove early on.

Mr Zoat said:
We're following a several leads

Also, this should probably read "following up on several" or something similar, unless it's being misspoken.

Arafell · Jul 21, 2016

The_Letter_K said:
Yeah, but it if I recall correctly, it bleeds solely as heat, and so wouldn't be much use as a battery without a re-design. Wasn't the point to cover OL's weakness to any and all magic? Not much use if it just got him high off the magic instead, like in the grove early on.

Mr Zoat said:
No. It doesn't turn magic into heat, the heat is a side effect of it reaching magic capacity.

Pretty sure it just 'eats' the spells. Not sure how it empties.

The heat's probably a warning that if it 'eats' any more, it's going to explode, so it stops working.

NexysDhyArchen said:
What's stopping you from getting an enchanted matrix that you can plug the Spell Eater into as a battery font? Magical equipment running off what the Eater absorbs shouldn't be too especially difficult, since I think that they're designed to bleed it off already.

Seems like a hassle to carry around and train to use magical equipment that only works when they're throwing spells at you. If you could just drain the energy into oblivion - possibly using a techno-arcane method - that seems like it would be easiest.

sockmonkey · Jul 21, 2016

The_Letter_K said:
Yeah, but it if I recall correctly, it bleeds solely as heat, and so wouldn't be much use as a battery without a re-design. Wasn't the point to cover OL's weakness to any and all magic? Not much use if it just got him high off the magic instead, like in the grove early on.

His orange light soul means he's slightly less vulnerable to magic than regular people now. It is theoretically possible to power defensive spells by absorbing enemy magic but that would be way more complex than just soaking and neutralizing it like the spell eater does. The Cornwalls can do it, but that ability is built into their bloodline.

The_Letter_K · Jul 21, 2016

Arafell said:
Pretty sure it just 'eats' the spells. Not sure how it empties.

The heat's probably a warning that if it 'eats' any more, it's going to explode.

Could be. I was under the impression it converted all incoming magic to heat, and 'safe' amounts simply bled off without noticeable, or at least noteworthy, heat. The over-heating being a measure more along the lines of 'too-much, too fast', rather than a sign to 'tip me over and pour me out'.

It's a gigantic game, I could be forgetting something.

Still, that just seems more battlefield efficient, since if you can dodge long enough, your magic shield would essentially regenerate without maintenance.

Vaermina · Jul 21, 2016

Is the amount of magical energy a spell eater can absorb linked to it's size?

If so could you build one that's the size of a small house and then shrink it down using Atom tech?

If not that what about wearing multiple spell eaters set into temperature controlled auto eject slots in his armor?

The_Letter_K · Jul 21, 2016

Vaermina said:
Is the amount of magical energy a spell eater can absorb linked to it's size?

If so could you build one that's the size of a small house and then shrink it down using Atom tech?

Maybe, but depending on the degree to which the shrink-effect says 'screw physics', and the amount of magic you're absorbing, that strikes me as really dangerous if it overheats and tries to express that heat over a small area. Worth testing, but I personally wouldn't strap anything to my chest which has even a tiny chance of burning through me like butter.

stsword · Jul 21, 2016

Arafell said:
Yes, but if you turned incoming magic into heat, then had the ring eat the stored energy, you could power your ring off the impotent spells of your enemies ^_^

Rings do have the ability to store and release other forms of energy, as shown in that cartoon episode where Stewart used his ring with electricity or Alan's lantern using both green lantern energy and the magical energy of the Starheart in one of his origins, but it doesn't mean that a ring could say make a construct out of solid electricity, it means they can absorb and release the energy to do the types of things that kind of energy actually does. So if he used his ring to absorb the heat it means he could boil some tea, or throw fireballs at his enemies, that sort of thing, no making constructs out of solid fire like a member of the Effigy Corps.

And Zoat seems disinclined to include that capacity in this fic, I mentioned the possibility before.

Perhaps because it was a plot point that Blue Lantern Paul is barely skating by thanks to emotion he's powered by, perhaps it's an added level of cheese that Zoat just doesn't feel is necessary.

Mizu · Jul 21, 2016

Mr Zoat said:
he's apprehended. We're following a several leads-."

up several

Well. Can Wolf cast time stop?

Coda · Jul 21, 2016

Orange rings CAN convert energy but OL doesn't know how. At present, orange light is the only way OL can use to recharge his ring.

PDV · Jul 21, 2016

Mr Zoat said:
Loathed as I am

Loath as I am, unless you mean by Schreiber and the Nazis.

johnwedd · Jul 21, 2016

*marks 'denial of unfortunate truth' and 'convienent arrival of villian' off on score card, munches popcorn*

More good sir.

NexysDhyArchen · Jul 21, 2016

Well, for starters, the other people with spell eaters could use them to charge equipment that lets them do things Paul can with the ring. Then, the equipment could do things that the ring is incapable or inefficient in comparison of matching, like say scrying or dealing with magical effects. The amulets are a good all around magical defense, but having the option of moving to more specific defenses or jus general offenses in a medium normally outside Paul/the wearers reach is the kind of purpose developing these kinds of items is for. Nolw, I don't mean it should happen immediately, but it should definitely be something examined for the mark three models of spell eaters. And if someone says that nothing that radical would be considered for developing after getting Sebastion, Io, and the beetle guy(can't remember his name) working together then I'm gonna call bull!

Mr Zoat · Jul 21, 2016

NexysDhyArchen said:
What's stopping you from getting an enchanted matrix that you can plug the Spell Eater into as a battery font?

Nothing, except it would probably work better with a dedicated 'extractor' rather than a Spell Eater kludge.

Magical equipment running off what the Eater absorbs shouldn't be too especially difficult, since I think that they're designed to bleed it off already.

True, but currently the Spell Eater itself runs off that.

The_Letter_K said:
Also, this should probably read "following up on several" or something similar, unless it's being misspoken.

Thank you, corrected.

Vaermina said:
Is the amount of magical energy a spell eater can absorb linked to it's size?

Yes.

If so could you build one that's the size of a small house

Yes.

and then shrink it down using Atom tech?

That might work. Got a spare white dwarf fragment you don't mind using, and a spare star system you don't mind blowing up if something goes wrong?

If not that what about wearing multiple spell eaters set into temperature controlled auto eject slots in his armor?

The SI didn't think that that additional mechanical complexity warranted it. It usually only takes second to change them over from subspace, so unless an enemy can mind control him immediately and can't just re-mind control him afterwards there isn't much point. Plus, they would have to be housed in shielded containers, otherwise they would interfere with each other.

PDV said:
Loath as I am, unless you mean by Schreiber and the Nazis.

Thank you, corrected.

Avernus · Jul 21, 2016

NexysDhyArchen said:
What's stopping you from getting an enchanted matrix that you can plug the Spell Eater into as a battery font?

For one thing the fact that his magic-craftsperson contacts are already overburdened; he's commented before that he need to find some more.

That said, while it might require a redesign and/or not be worth it, it ought to be possible. I recall Cornwall Boy refueling himself by sucking the stored magic out of a used Spell Eater once, so it is extractable. It might be worth it to design a variety of Spell Eater for spellcasters designed to feed the absorbed magic to the wearer.

Dehgan · Jul 21, 2016

Firstly, I'd like to say I've read and reread the story several times since you started it and loved it to pieces, and this update was no different. I guess if I was going to say one thing it would be that:

Is it just me, or does Paul seem to fall into similar/the same sorts of behavioral problems over it? Like how he treats people who don't agree with/see things like he does kind of like errant children, or how he mistakes being bluntly honest with being utterly tactless.

...actually I guess that just means he's an actual person with actual personality faults, rather than some sort of writing issue.

Thanks for all your hard work Mr Zoat. You've inspired me to dig up Comic Book Hero: The Greatest Cape again and try to find a decent DC universe set.

kjyl · Jul 21, 2016

frustratedbuffa said:
clone+hitler=clitler

I enjoy a portmanteau as much as the next guy but That name is already taken by a female hero that has the ability to not be found.

Mr Zoat · Jul 21, 2016

Dehgan said:
Firstly, I'd like to say I've read and reread the story several times since you started it and loved it to pieces, and this update was no different. I guess if I was going to say one thing it would be that:

Is it just me, or does Paul seem to fall into similar/the same sorts of behavioral problems over it? Like how he treats people who don't agree with/see things like he does kind of like errant children, or how he mistakes being bluntly honest with being utterly tactless.

In this instance, there's a nontrivial chance that the man was under the observation of two high end supervillains. More generally... Could you give me some examples? In my head he's only rude to really inefficient ones who refuse to improve.

Thanks for all your hard work Mr Zoat. You've inspired me to dig up Comic Book Hero: The Greatest Cape again and try to find a decent DC universe set.

I'm glad, but I don't know what that is.

stsword · Jul 21, 2016

Coda said:
Orange rings CAN convert energy but OL doesn't know how. At present, orange light is the only way OL can use to recharge his ring.

Orange rings can convert the energies of its fellows among the emotional spectrum and magic, heat is not the same as magic or part of the emotional spectrum, even if Red Lanterns really like setting fires.

And if Zoat allowed Paul to use his ring to absorb magic a spelleater would be superfluous, which would make absorbing the heat from a spelleater something that wouldn't come up.

Dehgan · Jul 21, 2016

Mr Zoat said:
In this instance, there's a nontrivial chance that the man was under the observation of two high end supervillains. More generally... Could you give me some examples? In my head he's only rude to really inefficient ones who refuse to improve.

I'm glad, but I don't know what that is.

Ah, I'll dig through my memory tomorrow when I'm more awake. It could also just be my personal take on his behavior, rather than how he is actually behaving, or personal views of when it's good to get snappy or something.

Also CBH: The Greatest Cape is...basically a comic book fanfiction simulation game. It's an incredibly versatile and customizable game that lets you plug in any of the fan made 'mods' that let you play in any comic book universe, and the sheer amount of customization available in stats, skills, attacks and etc is huge.

It's basically one of the only games I can think of where you could accurately design Orange Lantern to the T.

Sadly, it's also literally all text and still pictures, but it's still a load of fun to me at least.

Draconomial · Jul 21, 2016

Mr Zoat said:
Yes, but doing it that way rather than just creating a fire spell would be rather inefficient. That's like using an incandescent light bulb to heat a room.

It's not a matter of efficiency, it's the difference between a heat sink and a radiator/exhaust. Heat sinks melt.

If I remember right Grayven's spell eater is supposed to repurpose the magic it takes in to grow him a soul. Or are we past that now?

BrambleThorn · Jul 21, 2016

Ganurath said:
Would the New God "I reject your reality and substitute my own" healing factor let Canis resist Krieger's body control?

The basic stuff all New Gods have? Probably not without a lot of Mojo.
Specific domains would work a lot better.
Trying the spear on the New Tyranny, would be like arguing with an idiot; they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
The New God of Freedom could make the ground belong to no one, least of all the spear holder.
The New God of Conquest makes the Spear not work unless you actually, explicitly beat him; none of that pansy ass "tale mystical ownership via spell" stuff.

BrambleThorn · Jul 21, 2016

The_Letter_K said:
Could be. I was under the impression it converted all incoming magic to heat, and 'safe' amounts simply bled off without noticeable, or at least noteworthy, heat. The over-heating being a measure more along the lines of 'too-much, too fast', rather than a sign to 'tip me over and pour me out'.

Spells need magic energy to be maintained. The spell eater does not, because it uses absorbed magic to maintain itself. But it's storage capacity is not infinite.

It is a combination Mana absorber, and mana battery, with a link using the Mana battery to power the Mana absorber and Mana Battery enchantments. There might also be a durability enchantment on the disc also, I cannot remember.

The spell eater being filled to capacity and no longer able to absorb mana has been a problem in the past.

Adding another spell enchantment(s) to deplete the stored mana to prevent this is a logical step, but has not happened. Blame Zoat.

Personally, I would add enchantments so you could drain the stored mana by firing blasts of magical energy, powering magical shields, fly, etc. then make the spell eater a green ring, as a jibe that 95% of what a Green Lantern does can be done by someone with a few pre programmed spells.

Mr Zoat · Jul 21, 2016

Draconomial said:
If I remember right Grayven's spell eater is supposed to repurpose the magic it takes in to grow him a soul. Or are we past that now?

Grayven doesn't have a Spell Eater. They were never invented in his timeline.

BrambleThorn said:
Adding another spell enchantment(s) to deplete the stored mana to prevent this is a logical step, but has not happened. Blame Zoat.

It has that, it just soaks far more in combat than it can get rid of.

Personally, I would add enchantments so you could drain the stored mana by firing blasts of magical energy, powering magical shields, fly, etc. then make the spell eater a green ring, as a jibe that 95% of what a Green Lantern does can be done by someone with a few pre programmed spells.

Which is sort of why I can't write that.

BrambleThorn · Jul 21, 2016

Mr Zoat said:
Which is sort of why I can't write that.

But the Green Lanterns know he thinks that anyway. Making unoptimized Spell Eaters to protect the GL Corps schtick because they don't/won't use the full capabilities of their rings just seems wrong.

Mr Zoat · Jul 21, 2016

BrambleThorn said:
But the Green Lanterns know he thinks that anyway. Making unoptimized Spell Eaters to protect the GL Corps schtick because they don't/won't use the full capabilities of their rings just seems wrong.

I don't mean 'I won't write the SI trying that', I mean 'I can't have that be a thing which is possible in the setting'. An arcane device that could do what you describe would either be the size of a moon, be far more limited in function or have a battery life measured in seconds. Or more likely, all three. And require tonnes of research just to get that far.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Twelve)

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